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Day Two
May 31, 2007 11:24:12 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on May 31, 2007 11:24:12 GMT -5
I do have a few people that are pinging my radar, I'm hoping with by the end of the Day I will feel a bit more comfortable with who I want to vote for. This is the third time, I think, that you've said this or a variant - essentially, that you have people pinging your radar and plan to tell us all about it... at some future point. If you are town, I would suggest that - per one of my earlier votes - this is emphatically anti-town behavior. If you have something on your mind, stop promising elaboration and start elaborating. You seem to think that if you reveal your suspicions, that something dire will result, and I don't understand that approach at all. Say something.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 11:28:50 GMT -5
Post by Gadarene on May 31, 2007 11:28:50 GMT -5
Sorry to hear it, CaerieD. I hope everything's okay.
Malacandra, can we get a sub for CaerieD?[/color]
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Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
Posts: 1,077
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 11:29:00 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on May 31, 2007 11:29:00 GMT -5
CaerieD, sorry to see you go too. Tell that heart of yours to behave.
I've been keeping a running tally of votes today (I got a day away from that "course" of mine hurrah).
So, unofficial vote count. ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies : Pleonast hockeymonkey : Lakai, NAF1138, FlyingCowOfDoom Lakai : hockeymonkey, PanamaJack MadTheSwine : Capybara Mhaye : BlasterMaster, Gadarene, Zuma zuma : MadTheSwine
Players voted for in alphabetical order. Players votes registered in order of placement.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 11:35:41 GMT -5
Post by Mad The Swine on May 31, 2007 11:35:41 GMT -5
Malacandra,I wonder if The players subbing in might have the players name they subbed in for added to the end of their name, like this Tirila(cookies), Whoever(CaerieD)would be helpful for all I think.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 11:37:23 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 31, 2007 11:37:23 GMT -5
If you are town, I would suggest that - per one of my earlier votes - this is emphatically anti-town behavior. If you have something on your mind, stop promising elaboration and start elaborating. You seem to think that if you reveal your suspicions, that something dire will result, and I don't understand that approach at all. Say something.Storyteller is right. I am going to repeat the advice I gave in M3, play like you are going to be killed tonight. Now it turns out I was killed that night and I have no regrets about that game. Hopefully my death helped the town. That is really the best we can hope for.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 11:59:19 GMT -5
Post by auntbeast on May 31, 2007 11:59:19 GMT -5
Okidoki. I'll step outside of my comfort zone.
Storyteller still pings me. He is direct enough with his votes (not much waffling, sticks to his theories) that it strikes me that while he is eloquent enough to justify himself voting for a Heffalump, that his voting may not be as innocent as it seems. I've said before, in a game where you should trust no one, that boy just bleeds trust. Even if he protests us giving it to him. The best lies to tell are the ones closest to the truth.
NAF: Pings me greatly. He's smudged 11 people. 11! That is far more than anyone else. Either he is extremely wishy-washy, severely paranoid, or is attempting to throw enough names against the wall that something will stick. I'm shocked at the number of people that he has named and yet very few are suspicious of him. I made note of that earlier. I feel that while he is sticking his neck out, he's yelling so loudly no one has noticed the nice, vulnerable jugular he has exposed. I don't get it. I don't get his style nor do I get other peoples reactions to him.
FCOD:While she smudges a lot of folks, she also defends a lot of folks. At this point, I don't know if she's nailing crew and protecting pirates or is just pliable. Or whatever. She's also very insistent on her choices, which tells me either she is a pirate or over confident.
Blaster Master pinged me on day one. But I've backed off of that for some reason. He pretty much only smudges, never supports.
Gadarene really pings me. A lot of smudges, no real support. While I'm not offering specific instances, Gad just pings me for some reason.
Capybara: Has gotten a lot of flack, but as I stated earlier, she's radar silent for me as far as scumminess goes.
Pleonast has cast smudges against quite a few people but is virtually without suspicion.
MadTheSwine: Pings me mostly because he has pretty much insisted on me being a pirate. Which, since I know I'm town, seems well, scummy. His initial position on smudging me was that I was lurking, even though schedule-wise, it wasn't lurking. I was accused of lurking from 3pm to 11am on a day I worked. I had posted on the google boards but the posts didn't go through. *shrug* from his perspective, that made me a pirate, from my perspective, it was a buggy board and a night shift I worked. My first vote against him was retaliatory and just one step above random. Yet he is still dogging me quite a bit. With not much real reason.
At this point, I trust no one, including my own judgement, which is why I have been careful about tossing out names. I just don't feel comfortable saying "YOU ARE A PIRATE!" because hell, the only folks that can comfortably say that are the pirates themselves. So if someone is screaming definitives, it definitely pings my radar.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:01:25 GMT -5
Post by auntbeast on May 31, 2007 12:01:25 GMT -5
I just realize I had not stated my current vote in my previous post.
Just because I think he deserves looking at a bit more closely.
+++Vote NAF113+++
I may be grabbing at straws, but something ain't right, I just don't know what it is.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:10:29 GMT -5
Post by Gadarene on May 31, 2007 12:10:29 GMT -5
auntbeast:I'm happy to answer any questions you have. I'd like to know, though, what you mean when you say that I've offered " lot of smudges" and "no real support." It's an odd comment, in light of my consistent defense of capybara (among others, like BM and, although I've questioned him as well, storyteller) and the fact that I've only expressed suspicion of three or four posters each Day and, on Day Two, anyway, voted for only one of them.
You're obviously entitled to your observations, and I know what it's like to have someone ping for no articulable reason (and I appreciate your list!), but I'm not quite sure if you've accurately characterized my actions.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:14:09 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 31, 2007 12:14:09 GMT -5
First of all, I'm a he These are honest questions about your evaluation of me. Whom have I defended? Have I not made it clear that my choices were based on weak assumptions, but the only ones I had at the time? How is that being overconfident? There's something about your entire post that rubs me the wrong way, but I don't know what yet. Also, your vote won't count until you color it blue . --FCOD
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:15:08 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on May 31, 2007 12:15:08 GMT -5
That was a good post. I think you and I have fundamental disagreements on what constitutes suspicious behavior, but that's really a good thing (assuming, of course, that we are both town). It will keep the crew in general from running down the same roads too often. I'd like to address some of your points individually: Storyteller still pings me. He is direct enough with his votes (not much waffling, sticks to his theories) that it strikes me that while he is eloquent enough to justify himself voting for a Heffalump, that his voting may not be as innocent as it seems. I've said before, in a game where you should trust no one, that boy just bleeds trust. Even if he protests us giving it to him. The best lies to tell are the ones closest to the truth. So you don't trust me because you find yourself inclined to trust me. You know, I think this is reasonable and wise, in spite of the fact that I know it to be wrongheaded in my particular case. I have no problem with this. I think this is one of those places where we disagree. I don't think that smudging (great term, by the way) a lot of folks is inherently scummy. I think it's just one playstyle, and as I've said repeatedly, I'm just not sure there's any one playstyle that's characteristically likely to be pirate-y. I haven't developed a strong opinion either way on NAF. My feelings on this particular player have been well-documented, I think; no sense rehashing them here. For future reference, the cow in question is male.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:21:15 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on May 31, 2007 12:21:15 GMT -5
First of all, I'm a he These are honest questions about your evaluation of me. Whom have I defended? Have I not made it clear that my choices were based on weak assumptions, but the only ones I had at the time? How is that being overconfident? There's something about your entire post that rubs me the wrong way, but I don't know what yet. Also, your vote won't count until you color it blue . --FCOD And here we go again. Every time someone calls you out, they're "making you nervous" or "rubbing you the wrong way." The degree to which you fire back seems to vary directly with the degree of the accusation (and, of course, when they back off, you feel much better about them). This sort of reciprocal approach to suspicion, coupled with everything I've already said and what I regard as a spotty defense thereto, leads me back around again to: +++vote FlyingCowofDoom+++
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:26:06 GMT -5
Post by auntbeast on May 31, 2007 12:26:06 GMT -5
+++NAF1138+++My apologies. I'll now think of him as the FlyingBullofDoom. Storyteller: Damn you! You post and make me like you more! Stopit! There is a quote about what it was like to work with Julie Andrews. "it is like being hit over the head with a valentine." You sir, are my Julie Andrews. In regards to NAF. If he is town, he is playing so far outside of what I think is smart for a townie. After all, our job is to not get killed. A pirates job is to not get found out and not get killed. So therefore, throwing yourself out there while you are busy naming names seems like a very untown thing to do. As I stated earlier, I feel like he is pointing everywhere else so no one will be point at him because they are spending all their time looking at his suspects that they don't look at him. Not a bad methodology for a pirate, but a downright goofy one for a townie. The damned thing is, if that is what he is doing....no one else is noticing it.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:27:25 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 31, 2007 12:27:25 GMT -5
I just realize I had not stated my current vote in my previous post. Just because I think he deserves looking at a bit more closely. +++Vote NAF113+++I may be grabbing at straws, but something ain't right, I just don't know what it is. You want to put that in blue. Have I really voted for 11 people? Crap, well that is a lot. I did explain my play style already and have tried to be totally transparent in my actions and support every vote and unvote. Don't really know what else I can say. I am a little bit frustrated by my being continually called a low content poster though. Where have I ever posted something without providing support? I seem to have gotten a name for myself as low content just because Gad put me on that list. I know some of you think my voting is flaky, but I have only voted for two people today, FCoD and Hockey Monkey. I really thought that FCoD was scum, so did others. He put up a defense that gave me pause and I unvoted, so have others. I took a second look at Hockey Monkey and decided that she looked scummy. I still feel this way. I don't see how this is either flaky or lacking substance.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:28:38 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on May 31, 2007 12:28:38 GMT -5
Just want to ping in that I'm still following along, but haven't found anything worth commenting on. I'm still happy with my vote against Tirial/Cookies, since I'm not convinced anyone else is more scummy. I don't expect others to jump on board, what with the substitution, but I'll wait for a defense from Tirial before unvoting.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:34:08 GMT -5
Post by auntbeast on May 31, 2007 12:34:08 GMT -5
First of all, I'm a he These are honest questions about your evaluation of me. Whom have I defended? Have I not made it clear that my choices were based on weak assumptions, but the only ones I had at the time? How is that being overconfident? --FCOD I have used the term smudge for a reason. A lot can be said without a vote for a FOS. I went through the days posts and noted when people made comments about others. Whether it was a positive statement or a negative statement. I did not count their votes. Nor did I make note of what they said about the particular person. Strictly a + or x in the little box. Since you asked, I show you making smudges against 5 people and having +'s for 3 people. Some people are very good at mentioning a lot of names, without really making any sort of value judgement against them. For all the posts of Capybara by the time I stopped yesterday, she had not said anything particularly positive or negative about anyone. Which honestly surprised me because she posts a lot. The fact is, this game is played by what we say and what we don't say. Since we are all acting like 13 year old girls who's crush just called, it is fair to note these smudges. A smudge is a safe way to get a name out, without casting a vote and raising eyebrows or suspicion. I smudged a few people with my post naming names. It is quite obvious. Heck, I started their smudge paragraphs with their names. I'm far more concerned about people who do it on the sly.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:34:09 GMT -5
Post by Malacandra on May 31, 2007 12:34:09 GMT -5
Sorry to hear it, CaerieD. I hope everything's okay. Malacandra, can we get a sub for CaerieD?[/color][/quote] Small ad placed in Pirate's Mariner's Weekly.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:35:45 GMT -5
Post by Malacandra on May 31, 2007 12:35:45 GMT -5
So, we have a little over 24 hours left in the day? Could we get another vote count Mal?Later. No time now.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:35:52 GMT -5
Post by Gadarene on May 31, 2007 12:35:52 GMT -5
auntbeast:
I disagree. As others have stated, our job is to help the town. Helping the town and not getting killed are usually, but not always, congruent with each other. It's the pirates whose primary job it is not to get killed, it seems. Well, them and (to a certain extent) the power roles.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:36:41 GMT -5
Post by Gadarene on May 31, 2007 12:36:41 GMT -5
auntbeast:
Interesting data! What have you got for me?
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:37:06 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on May 31, 2007 12:37:06 GMT -5
In regards to NAF. If he is town, he is playing so far outside of what I think is smart for a townie. After all, our job is to not get killed. A pirates job is to not get found out and not get killed. So therefore, throwing yourself out there while you are busy naming names seems like a very untown thing to do. As I stated earlier, I feel like he is pointing everywhere else so no one will be point at him because they are spending all their time looking at his suspects that they don't look at him. Not a bad methodology for a pirate, but a downright goofy one for a townie. The damned thing is, if that is what he is doing....no one else is noticing it. And then this was posted... It's almost enough for me to switch my vote to Auntbeast. NAF's strategy is valid. I've quibbled with him about his transparency, but the basic tactic of finding something scummy about a player and holding it up for others to see is a good one. What else are we supposed to do? You seemed reluctant to voice your reasons for voting explicitly. Why? Townies want to share their reasons! It's how we build a consensus. And then you say "After all, our job is to not get killed", refering to Townies. No, our job is to find scum. Staying alive isn't really important. You know, my vote for Tirial/Cookies can wait (I still want to see an explanation). Auntbeast has given too strong a scum tell to ignore. --Unvote Tirial/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies--++Vote Auntbeast++
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:37:53 GMT -5
Post by auntbeast on May 31, 2007 12:37:53 GMT -5
Have I really voted for 11 people? No sir. You have not voted for 11 people. As of my count yesterday, you had cast suspicion on 11 people. Or smudges and I like to say. You made negative comments about 11 players and the only positive comment you made about another player was FCOD. Please note, my smudges are not scientific, merely my impression of your statements regarding other players. Be it positive, negative or neutral.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:42:05 GMT -5
Post by auntbeast on May 31, 2007 12:42:05 GMT -5
These were my counts as of the DayTwo posts as of some time yesterday afternoon. I did not tally my own count. As stated previously, These are NOT vote counts. Merely my impression of statements made about other players and whether it was a positive (she seems like town) or a negative (bad vibe).
Neg Pos Players 1 1 ArizonaTeach Auntbeast Autolycus 4 Blaster Master 1 CaerieD capybara ComeCookies 1 cowgirl DiggitCamara fluiddruid 5 2 FlyingCowOfDoom 6 Gadarene 2 3 Hockey Monkey IdleThoughts KatiRoo 1 Kyrie Eleison 1 Lakai 1 MadTheSwine MHaye 9 1 NAF1138 2 panamajack 5 Pleonast 2 1 storyteller0910 1 1 zuma
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:45:32 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 31, 2007 12:45:32 GMT -5
Have I really voted for 11 people? No sir. You have not voted for 11 people. As of my count yesterday, you had cast suspicion on 11 people. Or smudges and I like to say. You made negative comments about 11 players and the only positive comment you made about another player was FCOD. Please note, my smudges are not scientific, merely my impression of your statements regarding other players. Be it positive, negative or neutral. The only player I hav ever said anything postitve about has been FCoD? REALLY? I will look over my old posts but I find that very hard to believe. I seem to recall some rather nice things about Capy on day 1 at the very least. I know this will look like an OMGUS post, but FOS AuntBeast. You need to show me more data.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 12:49:21 GMT -5
Post by Gadarene on May 31, 2007 12:49:21 GMT -5
auntbeast:Your data's wrong, at least for me. I'll happily pull up one of the several posts in which I expressly stated my belief that capy was crew---not to mention the innumerable posts in which I agreed with some other player's analysis, thus at least implicitly and partially expressing my belief in their crewiness---if you like.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 13:03:44 GMT -5
Post by auntbeast on May 31, 2007 13:03:44 GMT -5
Those tallies were just from the DAY TWO posts as of some time yesterday. I do not see agreeing with someones analysis as being a positive statement, necessarily. Hell, I've probably said nicer things about storytellers analysis and strategy than anyone, and yet I voted for him on day one.
I'll go back over your posts Gadarene, but please understand, it is merely my opinion. I don't as yet, even keep track of who people are voting for, although I'm considering it. Votes are easily countable and trackable, off-hand comments not so much. That is why I started it. I saw a lot of names being thrown around, but not votes or even FOS's. That told me that much was being said in other ways.
I only have about an hour left before I start getting ready for work. I should be home around 1am, EST. So let me stem the "you are dodging" statements right now.
That chart is the only thing I have and I pasted the summary pretty darn quickly after being asked. I've not asked anyone else to show what notes/spreadsheets/whatever they have. Perhaps we should. I'm an open book, hell, I'll start posting my crap to my blog if you like.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 13:07:04 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 31, 2007 13:07:04 GMT -5
I thought you said I had 11? The chart only says 9? Also, do you think it is a coincidence that the people doing the most talking are the people with the highest numbers?
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Parzival
Mome Rath
Let's all strive to do our best today![on:forgot to log out][of:forgot to log in]
Posts: 201
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 13:09:37 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on May 31, 2007 13:09:37 GMT -5
auntbeast, the tabs in your chart were stripped, making it hard to tell who is pos. and who's negative. Aggravatingly the [code] tag is stripping spaces as well. It looks like (unless you want to use the table tags) you'll have to put in a separator like _ as I did.
Here's the table (quoting preserved the spaces) but PLEASE VERIFY that this is correct:
Neg__Pos_____Players __________ 1____1____ArizonaTeach __________Auntbeast __________Autolycus 4_________Blaster Master _____1____CaerieD __________capybara __________ComeCookies _____1____cowgirl __________DiggitCamara __________fluiddruid 5____2____FlyingCowOfDoom 6_________Gadarene 2____3____Hockey Monkey __________IdleThoughts __________KatiRoo 1_________Kyrie Eleison 1_________Lakai 1_________MadTheSwine __________MHaye 9____1____NAF1138 _____2____panamajack 5_________Pleonast 2____1____storyteller0910 1____1____zuma
One more thing - I don't think it's our job not to die. Our job is to get rid of the pirates. In death we get the only truth we can be sure of, so dying (up to a point) may well be the job of some crew, in some situations.
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 13:11:44 GMT -5
Post by Gadarene on May 31, 2007 13:11:44 GMT -5
Yes, I know. Posted by me in Post #169:
But whatever; I'm having a bad real-life day at the moment, and there's no need to get further into it. Suffice to say that I think agreeing with (and expanding upon) someone's analysis is far more productive than a generic "positive statement" that someone seems to be town. To the extent that I've lent my support for people, it's been for what they've said and how they've said it, and I've expressed as much.
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Parzival
Mome Rath
Let's all strive to do our best today![on:forgot to log out][of:forgot to log in]
Posts: 201
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 13:17:08 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on May 31, 2007 13:17:08 GMT -5
Oops, that should be [code] . But now you know how to make it look correct - simply type :
[co[sub][/sub]de] to make the bracketed word show up.
Or any tags that open and then close right away. You could also use [i][/i], for example. Are other people seeing the tabs correctly in Auntbeast's table? It could be my browser.
Does this sentence have three spaces between each word?
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Day Two
May 31, 2007 13:18:01 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 31, 2007 13:18:01 GMT -5
And here we go again. Every time someone calls you out, they're "making you nervous" or "rubbing you the wrong way." The degree to which you fire back seems to vary directly with the degree of the accusation (and, of course, when they back off, you feel much better about them). This sort of reciprocal approach to suspicion, coupled with everything I've already said and what I regard as a spotty defense thereto, leads me back around again to: +++vote FlyingCowofDoom+++And here you go again twisting my words and exaggerating my actions. At this point, you're being ridiculous. Auntbeast directed some pretty weak suspicion at me. I wasn't fazed by it at all. However, I firmly believe that we should discuss EVERYTHING and be completely honest, so I asked some questions about her suspicions. Is there something wrong with that? Then, I mentioned that something about her (ENTIRE) post bothered me. I know what it is now...I think her summaries of NAF and Gad are inaccurate and that's what was rubbing me the wrong way. BTW, I'm still not accusing her of anything, because God forbid I accuse someone that has previously accused me! I'm still not even accusing you, storyteller, of anything, although at this point I can't imagine why I don't find you suspicious. Instead, I think you're trying WAY too hard. If you're suspicious of me I don't really care, but please stop twisting my words. --FCOD
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