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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 29, 2011 15:20:52 GMT -5
guiri's questions, with Ed's answers, sans quote tags:
1 Can the kidnap be prevented through protection, roleblocking or vigging? I assume it might be able to be blocked. Other things probably won't interfere.
2 Can you be lynched or killed while kidnapped? Yes
3 Is the action of kidnapping trackable/watchable? I don't know
4 When you are kidnapped, can you continue to post and vote? Yes...
5 When you say you "know why they might kidnap you", do scum get some sort of benefit if they're successful? Yes
So if Ed gets 'kidnapped', it doesn't actually have any affect on his ability to play the game, or our ability to interact with him.
Kidnapping Ed does give the Scum some sort of advantage, but apparently rescuing him does not give any advantage to Town, and this inequity is so great that it's better off for Ed to call for his own lynch rather than risk falling into enemy hands.
Ed seems to know precisely why the Scum would want to kidnap him, but he's "not sure that they know all of the ramifications", so he doesn't want to tell us.
Something about this whole scenario just doesn't sound right to me...
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Post by guiri on Mar 29, 2011 15:53:42 GMT -5
Using Suburban's format:
I meant protecting, roleblocking or vigging you. If you are protected, can you still be kidnapped? If your only power is the power to be kidnapped, can it be roleblocked? If you are vigged toNight, does scum still gain the benefit? Have you asked the mod?
Can you ask the mod? In the case of a theoretical tracker/watcher, would your kidnapping be seen?
Continuing the assumption that you are telling the truth, I trust you have weighed the pros and cons and have decided that the danger to Town is greater than the loss of you as a player, fine.
Given the fact that you don't die, do not become scum and can continue to contribute to the game while kidnapped, short of multiple extra night kills or an auto-win for scum, I cannot imagine the great peril before us. Will you share this information at some point toDay?
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Post by Sister Coyote on Mar 29, 2011 16:06:33 GMT -5
2. The second half of the post above is just scare-mongering. That sort of thing - "ooh, watch out for so-and-so, cause he's really good and one time he lynched a Cop with his bare hands and KEYZER SOZE" - always draws my notice, because it's a content-free way to push under-the-radar suspicion at a player. I dislike the emerging bandwagon on Ed. I don't think anyone has successful articulated a reason why Ed's attack on Pinkies is scummy. I may find it bad form, and disagree with it, but why is it Scummy?I haven't found Ed's play particularly Scummy at this point, not even his "attack" on Pinkies. Also, I was more intending to make a point about why assuming "Scum wouldn't do that" is bad for Town than throw any smudge on Ed. 1. Sister Coyote: Usually she pings me. She's not right now I think I'm disturbed, since Ed and I are usually at each other's throats by this point in the game... Also, with regard to voting: Ed appears to be pretty much taken care of, and pro-Town or anti-Town role, I don't know that he's the best choice for toDay's Lynch.. Therefore, I am not going to put my vote on him at this point, in preference to observing others' play and seeing if I find anyone more Scummy.
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Post by MentalGuy on Mar 29, 2011 16:13:53 GMT -5
I would like to re-iterate my question for MentalGuy: Does your information explicitly indicate that the player with the role of Daphne is Town-aligned?My PM says that one of the ways that I can help Town win is by finding Daphne after she has been kidnapped. I only have a chance of finding her each day. It does say the sooner I find her, the better off Town will be. It does not say explicitly that Daphne is Town, but I think it is strongly implied.
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Post by Archangel on Mar 29, 2011 16:30:07 GMT -5
Just getting this on the record. If I weren't voting for Ed I'd be voting for Renata. I don't like the case against Paranoia because it seems pretty clear to me that his statement was illogical. In the early days of the game town is more likely to make inconsistencies like that because they are not watching every word they're saying, having nothing to hide. It seems like an excuse to make a vote.
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Post by Renata on Mar 29, 2011 16:50:39 GMT -5
ORLY, Archangel. An inconsistency wasn't why I voted for him at all. Just posting as I go to note that you have suggested that no one answer a question and then answered it. Why would you do this, if you thought it was a bad idea? This is not entirely a correct characterization. Septimus asked if anyone wanted to talk about having a particular use for Scooby snacks; Paranoia said don't talk about that, then said he himself doesn't know what they do at all. In other words, he implicitly denied having any use for them, which is the opposite of what he warned against talking about. That said, the post still bugs me, mostly for the FOS at Septimus for fishing. Scum so very rarely openly request the town to give up information like that. It's not at all a good indicator for finding scum, probably closer to the opposite, if anything. so vote: Paranoia[/color] for what I believe is a badly-reasoned FOS.[/quote] The inconsistency was STORYTELLER's argument, not mine. I stated quite clearly that my vote was based primarily on the FOS of Septimus for fishing. I don't know where you're getting your reasoning for "if I weren't voting for Ed I'd be voting for Renata", but it sure isn't based on anything I wrote. Looks rather like you just read Ed's yet-to-be-explained-logically statement that I look like scum; tacked on a townie-sounding stance aimed at some vaguely remembered combination of Storyteller's argument and my vote, and decided that'd make a nice safe statement for the day. Only you got it wrong. Convince me you didn't get it wrong due to being over-eager scum. unvote[/color] vote: Archangel[/color] Also -- MentalGuy's statement (as opposed to Ed's own actions) makes Ed look rather more likely to be town than a few hours ago. Whether it's right to lynch him or not regardless is still undetermined IMO (answer's to Guiri's latest questions would be nice).
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Post by septimus on Mar 29, 2011 17:11:29 GMT -5
Okay, if anyone else is really Daphne, you probably need to counterclaim Ed. Why? Perhaps Special Ed's claim is false, but he seems to be heading for a Lynch anyway. The contradictory way he revealed his identity, first (using "I" where "a player" would seem more appropriate) and soon thereafter going out of his way to comment on the identity, if not the location, of Daphne seems odd. Obviously some of you know more about Daphne than the rest of us. But for all I know, Scum are desperate to identify her and Ed and Mental are both lying. (Yes, Ed's comment 5 is still inexplicable in that case.) Before Day's end, I may pass on the Scooby Snack that peeker was kind enough to give me. Any advice from anyone on whom to give it to?
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Post by Archangel on Mar 29, 2011 17:51:36 GMT -5
ORLY, Archangel. An inconsistency wasn't why I voted for him at all. This is not entirely a correct characterization. Septimus asked if anyone wanted to talk about having a particular use for Scooby snacks; Paranoia said don't talk about that, then said he himself doesn't know what they do at all. In other words, he implicitly denied having any use for them, which is the opposite of what he warned against talking about. That said, the post still bugs me, mostly for the FOS at Septimus for fishing. Scum so very rarely openly request the town to give up information like that. It's not at all a good indicator for finding scum, probably closer to the opposite, if anything. so vote: Paranoia[/color] for what I believe is a badly-reasoned FOS.[/quote] The inconsistency was STORYTELLER's argument, not mine. I stated quite clearly that my vote was based primarily on the FOS of Septimus for fishing. I don't know where you're getting your reasoning for "if I weren't voting for Ed I'd be voting for Renata", but it sure isn't based on anything I wrote. Looks rather like you just read Ed's yet-to-be-explained-logically statement that I look like scum; tacked on a townie-sounding stance aimed at some vaguely remembered combination of Storyteller's argument and my vote, and decided that'd make a nice safe statement for the day. Only you got it wrong. Convince me you didn't get it wrong due to being over-eager scum. unvote[/color] vote: Archangel[/color] Also -- MentalGuy's statement (as opposed to Ed's own actions) makes Ed look rather more likely to be town than a few hours ago. Whether it's right to lynch him or not regardless is still undetermined IMO (answer's to Guiri's latest questions would be nice).[/quote] Forgive me if I misread your post. I see where it says you are voting him primarily for the FOS at Septimus. The first paragraph in what you just quoted seems to be agreeing with Storyteller. (I know you say it's "not entirely a correct characterization," which sounds like disagreement, but you go on to, in my view, to agree with him.) I stand by my statement (which has nothing to do with anything Ed said or didn't say) even given the correction. A badly reasoned FOS is bad reasoning. More likely to be town on Day One than scum.
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Post by special on Mar 29, 2011 18:24:02 GMT -5
Using Suburban's format: I meant protecting, roleblocking or vigging you. If you are protected, can you still be kidnapped? If your only power is the power to be kidnapped, can it be roleblocked? If you are vigged toNight, does scum still gain the benefit? Have you asked the mod? I assume that Vigging me will stop the Scum from benefitting from my kidnapping. I would assume that protection won't help unless there is someone with the power to prevent kidnapping. Can you ask the mod? In the case of a theoretical tracker/watcher, would your kidnapping be seen? OK Continuing the assumption that you are telling the truth, I trust you have weighed the pros and cons and have decided that the danger to Town is greater than the loss of you as a player, fine. Actually, the benefit to Scum is not that great. it's significant, but not overwhelming. In fact, with it out in the open, the power is only really WiFoM in the hands of the Scum. I was hoping that someone might slipw with some knowledge about what the actual advantage is, as Scum are probably well aware of it. I'd have to assume. (I can ask that too) Given the fact that you don't die, do not become scum and can continue to contribute to the game while kidnapped, short of multiple extra night kills or an auto-win for scum, I cannot imagine the great peril before us. Will you share this information at some point toDay? The Scum have the power to control my vote. Unvote: Special Ed
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Post by special on Mar 29, 2011 18:25:59 GMT -5
1. Sister Coyote: Usually she pings me. She's not right now I think I'm disturbed, since Ed and I are usually at each other's throats by this point in the game... remember Heroes, where I was sure you were Scum? And to put my mind at ease, I recruited you to be a mason. Even though had you been Scum, I would have died.
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Post by special on Mar 29, 2011 18:29:12 GMT -5
ORLY, Archangel. An inconsistency wasn't why I voted for him at all. This is not entirely a correct characterization. Septimus asked if anyone wanted to talk about having a particular use for Scooby snacks; Paranoia said don't talk about that, then said he himself doesn't know what they do at all. In other words, he implicitly denied having any use for them, which is the opposite of what he warned against talking about. That said, the post still bugs me, mostly for the FOS at Septimus for fishing. Scum so very rarely openly request the town to give up information like that. It's not at all a good indicator for finding scum, probably closer to the opposite, if anything. so vote: Paranoia[/color] for what I believe is a badly-reasoned FOS.[/quote] The inconsistency was STORYTELLER's argument, not mine. I stated quite clearly that my vote was based primarily on the FOS of Septimus for fishing. I don't know where you're getting your reasoning for "if I weren't voting for Ed I'd be voting for Renata", but it sure isn't based on anything I wrote. Looks rather like you just read Ed's yet-to-be-explained-logically statement that I look like scum; tacked on a townie-sounding stance aimed at some vaguely remembered combination of Storyteller's argument and my vote, and decided that'd make a nice safe statement for the day. Only you got it wrong. Convince me you didn't get it wrong due to being over-eager scum. unvote[/color] vote: Archangel[/color] Also -- MentalGuy's statement (as opposed to Ed's own actions) makes Ed look rather more likely to be town than a few hours ago. Whether it's right to lynch him or not regardless is still undetermined IMO (answer's to Guiri's latest questions would be nice).[/quote] I like this post. You scare me. That makes me think of you as Scum. Much the way you described your thoughts on guiri and Romanic. However, quick cases are a hallmark of Archangel's playstyle. I'm not sure that makes her Scummy, but she does like to read something and come to a conclusion and be done with it.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Mar 29, 2011 18:29:27 GMT -5
How could I forget?
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Post by Archangel on Mar 29, 2011 18:37:31 GMT -5
Using Suburban's format: I meant protecting, roleblocking or vigging you. If you are protected, can you still be kidnapped? If your only power is the power to be kidnapped, can it be roleblocked? If you are vigged toNight, does scum still gain the benefit? Have you asked the mod? I assume that Vigging me will stop the Scum from benefitting from my kidnapping. I would assume that protection won't help unless there is someone with the power to prevent kidnapping. OK Continuing the assumption that you are telling the truth, I trust you have weighed the pros and cons and have decided that the danger to Town is greater than the loss of you as a player, fine. Actually, the benefit to Scum is not that great. it's significant, but not overwhelming. In fact, with it out in the open, the power is only really WiFoM in the hands of the Scum. I was hoping that someone might slipw with some knowledge about what the actual advantage is, as Scum are probably well aware of it. I'd have to assume. (I can ask that too) Given the fact that you don't die, do not become scum and can continue to contribute to the game while kidnapped, short of multiple extra night kills or an auto-win for scum, I cannot imagine the great peril before us. Will you share this information at some point toDay? The Scum have the power to control my vote. {Snip unvote because I don't know how to bleach} [/quote] That seems like a penalty that we can get around. Unvote Special Ed]Vote Renata]
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Post by Archangel on Mar 29, 2011 18:39:14 GMT -5
Unvote Special Ed.
Vote Renata.
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Post by JustBeingGinger on Mar 29, 2011 18:54:36 GMT -5
Nice to meet you Little Teapot, I am Lily McGee. Is that your real name, your character, or a joke? To answer this: This is my character name in the Hotel Strangeways.
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Post by special on Mar 29, 2011 19:07:00 GMT -5
Is that your real name, your character, or a joke? To answer this: This is my character name in the Hotel Strangeways. 2 questions: 1. Why did you claim it? 2. What did your post say before you edited it?
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Post by Captain Pinkies on Mar 29, 2011 19:08:35 GMT -5
ED... you seriously thought that someone controlling your vote was worth your lynching? wow.... such a game changing ability... wow... I am almost want to keep my vote on you just for the all of the drama... but that would OMGUSish...
Unvote: ed
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Post by special on Mar 29, 2011 19:11:53 GMT -5
ED... you seriously thought that someone controlling your vote was worth your lynching? wow.... such a game changing ability... wow... I am almost want to keep my vote on you just for the all of the drama... but that would OMGUSish... Unvote: ed [/color][/quote] No, you silly boy. I was hoping there would be some reaction to what I said that might give us...you know...information, and not the benign useful information kind either.
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Post by JustBeingGinger on Mar 29, 2011 19:25:38 GMT -5
To answer this: This is my character name in the Hotel Strangeways. 2 questions: 1. Why did you claim it? 2. What did your post say before you edited it? Well, I didn't find any harm in stating my character name. I assumed Little Teapot was Little Teapot... Little Teapot was introducing its self so I didn't want to be rude... What I typed was a clue to my role. After typing it I thought it best to remove the clue so that no one would guess the role. Rookie mistake on that!
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Mar 29, 2011 21:09:50 GMT -5
this really is a mystery. ha ha ha! why would Special Ed want to be lynched and from what i've seen without pressure to do so? here are some possibilities. they may be similar to what have been mentioned before.
1. there is no daphne role and Special Ed has some Wincon that needs him to be lynched to achieve it.
2. there is a daphne character but the real daphne can not tell us. AND Special Ed has the Wincon i mentioned in #1.
3. Special Ed is daphne and getting lynched is the equivalent of getting kidnapped and it moves the story forward. maybe roles are activated when this condition is met.
4. He really is daphne and what he says is all true. he just will not or cannot say more than that.
so either Special Ed is some 3rd party or a weird anti-town Town. this does not seem to be scum behavior.
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Post by LightFoot on Mar 29, 2011 21:13:39 GMT -5
@ Ed[b/] " I might almost have an opinion about something (you said) Damn straight, now that some typing has occured by almost 1/2 of the players And i am finally home with a keyboard that doesn't DC every 5 minutes
At first i thought that Ed was flip flop flinging,, calling out one for claiming, then claiming his role. After more explanation I follow some of the reasoning (scary that I think)
BUT I'm also reading that the Daphne role is one that not even Ed is fully clear on and was fishing (for the benefit of town he claims) for more information.
either way I get the impression that ed was trying to help or appear to help. I am suspicious of the other players that appeared to be fishing (through naivete OR SCUM desires) but it is day one........
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Post by LightFoot on Mar 29, 2011 21:15:56 GMT -5
NETA I screwed that up . but you get the jist........... I wanted to get my thoughts out and didn't proofread!
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Post by special on Mar 29, 2011 21:32:54 GMT -5
@ Ed[b/] " I might almost have an opinion about something (you said) Damn straight, now that some typing has occured by almost 1/2 of the players And i am finally home with a keyboard that doesn't DC every 5 minutes
At first i thought that Ed was flip flop flinging,, calling out one for claiming, then claiming his role. After more explanation I follow some of the reasoning (scary that I think)
BUT I'm also reading that the Daphne role is one that not even Ed is fully clear on and was fishing (for the benefit of town he claims) for more information.
either way I get the impression that ed was trying to help or appear to help. I am suspicious of the other players that appeared to be fishing (through naivete OR SCUM desires) but it is day one........I was fishing for information? I suppose we might use the word differently, but it's workable. So, a couple of questions 1. You can follow my reasoning? Then, what do you think it is? 2. Are you suspicious of me for the fishing? 3. If so, are you forgiving it because it's day 1? 4. If so, why?
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Post by Captain Pinkies on Mar 29, 2011 22:28:56 GMT -5
No, you silly boy. I was hoping there would be some reaction to what I said that might give us...you know...information, and not the benign useful information kind either. What I meant by benign is that is information that doesn't cause me harm or town harm. Your tactic in my opinion has given scum information that could be used against town. That is unless your a mason with mentalguy and/or guiri and all of this Daphne talk is a fabrication and meant to confuse scum..... I think I'll stay with my playstyle and strategy....
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Post by LightFoot on Mar 29, 2011 22:29:17 GMT -5
@ Ed[b/] " I might almost have an opinion about something (you said) Damn straight, now that some typing has occured by almost 1/2 of the players And i am finally home with a keyboard that doesn't DC every 5 minutes
At first i thought that Ed was flip flop flinging,, calling out one for claiming, then claiming his role. After more explanation I follow some of the reasoning (scary that I think)
BUT I'm also reading that the Daphne role is one that not even Ed is fully clear on and was fishing (for the benefit of town he claims) for more information.
either way I get the impression that ed was trying to help or appear to help. I am suspicious of the other players that appeared to be fishing (through naivete OR SCUM desires) but it is day one........I was fishing for information? I suppose we might use the word differently, but it's workable. So, a couple of questions 1. You can follow my reasoning? Then, what do you think it is? 2. Are you suspicious of me for the fishing? 3. If so, are you forgiving it because it's day 1? 4. If so, why? Fishing was just the word I grabbed first. glad you think it is workable.(I was referencing your comments about trying to help, find out more) My tracking of your reasoning and my change of heart is in my post. I am suspicious of EVERYONE. Your questions and explainations for them made it less "fishy"/ scummy" The Day 1 reference is directly related to the point that NO ONE knows who anyone is . NOR do they know what the roles (even the ones they possess) entirely entail at this point.
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Post by LightFoot on Mar 29, 2011 23:02:07 GMT -5
No, you silly boy. I was hoping there would be some reaction to what I said that might give us...you know...information, and not the benign useful information kind either. What I meant by benign is that is information that doesn't cause me harm or town harm. Your tactic in my opinion has given scum information that could be used against town. That is unless your a mason with mentalguy and/or guiri and all of this Daphne talk is a fabrication and meant to confuse scum..... I think I'll stay with my playstyle and strategy.... More helpful than the recipes that I don't have the ingredients for. (although perhaps not as tasty) I will reserve future comments until I see how my most recent were recieved. (previously = I can do it too= my comments incited a riot that ended up with my demise)
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 29, 2011 23:02:49 GMT -5
So, Ed, all this talk about your role being so anti-Town that you were better off dead was just a big smokescreen? You were just "hoping that someone might slip with some knowledge about what the actual advantage is"?
That certainly sounds like "fishing" to me. Not fishing for knowledge, because as you point out the Scum likely already have that, but fishing for roles...because anyone who "slipped" with knowledge would obviously be someone the Scum would want to make a priority target.
I don't believe that Ed is Daphne. I don't think anyone is Daphne.
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Post by special on Mar 29, 2011 23:17:33 GMT -5
I don't believe that Ed is Daphne. I don't think anyone is Daphne. No Daphne? Is that just because it's easier on your brain? or becuase it fits in with your preconceived notions?
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Post by Romanic on Mar 30, 2011 0:05:14 GMT -5
Oh, and as long as I'm irritated anyway, may as well put it to use. Hey Romanic: three days and eight pages and all you have to say so far is something helpful about Scooby Snacks? Yep. Because of real life today, and the first two days were going well imo that I didn't feel the need to interfere in the Pinkies vs Ed discussion, hence only one comment on the Scooby Snacks. Also I'm afraid that I don't have time to catch up with the new 100 posts since my last one, at least not until tomorrow. Sucks but it's out of my control.
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Post by Greedy Smurf on Mar 30, 2011 0:12:08 GMT -5
My time difference strikes again. Lot of stuff going on.
I hope no one minds, I tend to like to try and summarise stuff, both as an exercise for me, and in an to attempt to 'show my working' as it were.
So Ed, (if being truthful) is Daphne, whose 'power' is to be kidnapped, at which time the scum would then control his vote. However we have another role who has a chance of freeing her, at which point I presume the scum would then no longer control Daphne's vote? Definitely an anti-town power but not too bad.
I for think a Scooby Do mafia would have to have a Daphne character, and so at this stage, I'm happy to take Ed's claims at face value. And he has claimed that the 'lynch me' line was a ploy, which I agree that his 'power' doesn't warrant a death sentence. So no vote on Ed from me.
I'm going to nose around and check some of the other votes to see what's underlying them, see if I can see someone or something I'm happy to vote for.
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