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Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 28, 2010 23:23:27 GMT -5
and puffy the masons and i, specifically, ponder about a redirection. i suggested it early on, remember. but if you are being truthful you need to die pretty damn quick. And on this point, we agree. We are at a seemingly impossible impasse here. And the only way to clear things up is for someone to die. Now if you'd like to volunteer for that position, I won't stop you...but I rather think you'd probably win a popularity contest between the two of us right now. I'd prefer to die tomorrow rather than today, if I have a say in it. For one thing, we have a confessed Scum in the house, so there is a zero chance of mislynch today. Secondly, assuming I survive the Night we might get additional information based on Tonight's actions. Then, go ahead and lynch me Tomorrow. When I turn up Town, hopefully the rest of you can use the information, along with my (proven truthful) statements from Today to catch the dirty rotten bastard who's trying to frame me!
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 28, 2010 23:26:18 GMT -5
We seem to have a lot of people who are absofriggiinlutely positive they are correct in their assumptions. Just remember this after I'm dead....
I told you so...
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Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 28, 2010 23:30:00 GMT -5
That's all well and good after you're dead but for now, we're all thinking, "wouldn't he be saying the same thing as scum?
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 28, 2010 23:39:01 GMT -5
That's all well and good after you're dead but for now, we're all thinking, "wouldn't he be saying the same thing as scum? Well yeah, but I'm hoping to sway you all with my impassioned performance... is it working yet?
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 28, 2010 23:40:11 GMT -5
Besides, what else are we going to talk about until Friday?
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timmy
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Post by timmy on Sept 28, 2010 23:53:31 GMT -5
I would strongly urge that any Townie who targetted Batman during Night 1 or Night 2 say so now. (And say which Night you targetted him). You don't need to reveal what your Special Power is. (And don't worry about admitting you have a special power ... it's becoming increasingly clear that we all do!) **Raises hand**
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timmy
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Post by timmy on Sept 28, 2010 23:55:57 GMT -5
Buddy Christ, I know who you are. And if you read other posts you'd see I called Elinor a "she."
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 29, 2010 0:05:15 GMT -5
Also, I am 100% sure the info we have is not the product of redirection. How could I possibly be certain? Well, that's a tale for another day, just know that I am. Do you mean that you're certain that the mason that got the information wasn't redirected, or you're certain that none of Batman's visitors were redirected there? Also, there should be a 5th scenario: Stay Puft was redirected onto Batman, and Zedd's power doesn't actually target players, thus he wouldn't show up as a visitor. If I were the mod, I don't believe I'd handle his claimed power that way, but it's still a possibility. Yes, and this has been brought up as a lingering question by multiple people already too, the Freaky Looking Rad comes to mind.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 29, 2010 0:05:47 GMT -5
The Freaking Looking Rad Rat, I mean.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 29, 2010 0:06:08 GMT -5
Not to mention Zed himself.
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Post by septimus on Sept 29, 2010 1:44:43 GMT -5
We seem to have a lot of people who are absofriggiinlutely positive they are correct in their assumptions. I'm a gullible one eager to find a way both sides could be truthful. Since you admit to attempting a Batman visit on Night 1, I considered that this might somehow show up in our secret result (which isn't overly explicit about timeframe). That's why, in my general query, I asked that players admit to Night 1 attempts at Batman also. But at this point, I find you scummy whether your claimed Night 2 action is truthful or not. You started the Day 2 campaign against me with a smudge. (I guessed well, placing my first Day-1 Lynch vote on you with "I'm more inclined to suspect Mr. Stay Puft for what seems like a stretched vote" which you abbreviated to "To heck with it! (It's my bedtime anyway.)" when you started the campaign against me.) Moreover you keep asking why Masons don't give more details. The answer to that should be obvious; you've already goaded us into telling more than we intended. As for redirection affecting our message; it's pretty clear that general target redirection didn't apply, nor was the masonic action redirected, but actor redirection can't be ruled out. Hence a question about game mechanics: Suppose, purely hypothetically, that - Stay Puft tried to kill septimus
- Zedd tried to investigate Batman
- Countess Bathory is a "busdriver" who reversed the targets of Stay Puft and Zedd
Now, Stay Puft's action turns into an (attempted) Kill of Batman, right? What about Zedd: His result is of septimus, but would he receive a message like "Septimus is no threat" or the misleading message "Batman is no threat"?
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Sept 29, 2010 1:53:22 GMT -5
There's been a lot of talk about redirection, but not a lot of critical thought in that direction. (oo that rhymes). Think about it: When we suspected Stay Puft of lying, we considered that he might have been redirected, since that's one player saying something opposite the mod. Then when Zedd claimed to have investigated Batman. Thats two players who were disputing the mod. That means for them both to be telling the truth that there must be two redirectors. Town should not lie about their targets, period. 1. 2 Scum redirectors, I consider this unlikely. Duping a non vanilla scum role? Maybe, but unlikely. In any case why not redirect both claimed vigs, instead of a vig and a claimed cop, and increase the overall kill count. 1a. If they are two variants of redirectors, then this situation is more likely, but pretty out there, in which case we would want to lynch dexter (since he was the target of a kill that got redirected, and that is a likely play for a scum target variant redirector, and we know that not everyone got redirected away from batman, so for Zedd to be redirected, it would have needed to be an actor redirector). 2. 1 Scum and 1 Town redirector. That means that a town redirector either redirected a claimed cop OR a town redirector redirected a comp vig claim onto a cop claim. This scenario is laughable. 3. 2 town redirectors. This is more laughable than #2. 4. Situations involving a PFK redirector. This role doesn't make any sense to me, I can't see the mechanics of it being useful, in this case once again it's likely that dexter would be the target redirector. Largely though, redirector's aren't common roles and 2 in one game with none of them being town? It's just a lot less likely than Either Zedd or Stay Puft or Both are lying non-towns. Chitter! Little Indian Girl: Here's another option no one has mentioned.... Nexus - Any ability targeting you will target a random player instead. (It might randomly end up still targeting you.) So it could be possible that Dexter is a Nexus....
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Sept 29, 2010 2:01:33 GMT -5
Chitter chitter chitter
Little Indian Girl: Meeko was no where near Batman either Night. If your results say that he targeted Batman, then he's in the camp that distrusts all information you are receiving... please confirm or deny that your information matches the info we have provided here.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 29, 2010 2:08:14 GMT -5
I also did not visit, target, or otherwise associate with the Caped Crusader last Night.
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Sept 29, 2010 2:15:13 GMT -5
Chitter chitter chitter....
Little Indian Girl: Meeko says that he is wary of Zedd's claim. He thinks it is likely that Zedd is some sort of PFK who didn't plan on there being a watcher in the game. Logic being that Zedd's claime power is very easily faked. As a PFK he doesn't know who is town, PFK, or scum, but he does know that anyone he claims isn't a threat to Town isn't going to dispute him.
Example: Zedd is a PFK mad bomber. He targets scum A to tag for Night 1. In the Morning he says "scum A is not a threat to Town." Scum A is not going to say "AHA! He's lying, I'm scum! (Buddy Christ excepted)" So his claimed result is safe. Meanwhile he is one tag closer to completing his wincon.
Possible application last Night: Zedd didn't target Batman and the Masons are telling the truth. He targeted someone else and tagged them. Since Batman had already claimed Cop, and there was no counterclaim, it is safe to assume he is indeed the Cop. Therefore Zedd assumed it would be safe to say that his result was that Batman was not a threat to Town, and if/when Batman dies, the reveal won't contradict Zedd's claimed results. He wasn't planning on there being a watcher townside that would be watching his target or Batman and see that he wasn't where he said he was.
Then again... I think we are all hearing hooves and yelling ZEBRA!
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Sept 29, 2010 3:52:04 GMT -5
and just so you know it was a direct result of powers that the masons have. so it's not like we are a hearer or some such where you get results filtered from some other soul. it was a direct result of an action taken by "us". much like a detective gets results from the mod so did we. we had an action. the results of that action were given to us by the mod. you visited batty and zed did not. that is a direct pm/quote/whatthefuckever from blockey. do i need to be any fucking clearer. So if it's a power you have, some kind of "watcher" role, isn't it possible that your power was redirected just like someone else's might have been? Like, oh, I don't know, mine? I like new ideas very much. But this seems like clinging to a straw. It would be very unlikely IMO that a redirector (even scum) would target a claimed Mason, wouldn't it? I don't think anyone expected that the Mason had an action before they revealed it themselves.
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Post by Mahaloth on Sept 29, 2010 6:22:06 GMT -5
I have received a PM back from the mods regarding my power. I have also been told they "prefer" to not have their PM's quoted directly...so I'll just tell you what it says?
This is a paraphrase of their response.
They tell me:
You don't move or go up to anyone with your power, so if there is a watcher or tracker or something like it in the game, they would not see you using your power.
Great. Nice to know.....after I've told everyone what I did and had a watcher/tracker tell everyone I'm lying.
None of this info. was in my original role PM, folks.
Lynch me toMorrow if you think I'm lying and I survive the Night. Up to you guys at this point.
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Sept 29, 2010 6:34:21 GMT -5
Hmmm, well - you would say that wouldn't you. No matter what.
However at this point I'd rather lynch Scum and as I have pointed out I just don't see Scum-motivations behind you claim.
I do see what Paulwhoisameeko is trying to say with you being PFK/3rd party. But I still don't see why you in that scenario would claim in the manner you did.
Added that investigating BatMc (if you are telling the truth) makes sense for me, since you did doubt his claim - hence why you claimed yourself.
So for me right now you're not the obvious Lynch-candidate for Tomorrow.
And should Dr. Raj fail his kill of Stay Puft toNight, I'd be more willing to see what's going on with him than with you.
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Post by Mahaloth on Sept 29, 2010 6:50:56 GMT -5
Hmmm, well - you would say that wouldn't you. No matter what. Yep. So basically, I'm screwed over because my power was not adequately described in my role PM. Had I been aware it is untrackable/unwatchable, I would have changed my gameplay. I leave it with all of you at this point. Uh, one more thing. Trackers/Watchers, did your role PM suggest there could possibly be players that don't "move" or "visit" someone to use their power? Did it clarify that a player MUST move for them to be watched or did it just say anyone who targets someone can be seen?
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Post by special on Sept 29, 2010 6:52:39 GMT -5
I have received a PM back from the mods regarding my power. I have also been told they "prefer" to not have their PM's quoted directly...so I'll just tell you what it says? This is a paraphrase of their response. They tell me: You don't move or go up to anyone with your power, so if there is a watcher or tracker or something like it in the game, they would not see you using your power.Great. Nice to know.....after I've told everyone what I did and had a watcher/tracker tell everyone I'm lying. None of this info. was in my original role PM, folks. Lynch me toMorrow if you think I'm lying and I survive the Night. Up to you guys at this point. How convenient. I too had questions about my action, and the mods ignored me completely.
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Post by special on Sept 29, 2010 6:53:59 GMT -5
Hmmm, well - you would say that wouldn't you. No matter what. However at this point I'd rather lynch Scum and as I have pointed out I just don't see Scum-motivations behind you claim. I do see what Paulwhoisameeko is trying to say with you being PFK/3rd party. But I still don't see why you in that scenario would claim in the manner you did. Added that investigating BatMc (if you are telling the truth) makes sense for me, since you did doubt his claim - hence why you claimed yourself. So for me right now you're not the obvious Lynch-candidate for Tomorrow. And should Dr. Raj fail his kill of Stay Puft toNight, I'd be more willing to see what's going on with him than with you. Why do you think I should kill Stay Puft and not Zedd?
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Post by special on Sept 29, 2010 6:54:35 GMT -5
and why would you question me when it seems quite possible that Scum have a roleblocker or redirector?
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Gir!
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Post by Gir! on Sept 29, 2010 7:09:14 GMT -5
I stayed away from the cave. There were bats in it!
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Sept 29, 2010 7:16:46 GMT -5
and why would you question me when it seems quite possible that Scum have a roleblocker or redirector? Who is this question for?
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Sept 29, 2010 7:47:29 GMT -5
Hmmm, well - you would say that wouldn't you. No matter what. However at this point I'd rather lynch Scum and as I have pointed out I just don't see Scum-motivations behind you claim. I do see what Paulwhoisameeko is trying to say with you being PFK/3rd party. But I still don't see why you in that scenario would claim in the manner you did. Added that investigating BatMc (if you are telling the truth) makes sense for me, since you did doubt his claim - hence why you claimed yourself. So for me right now you're not the obvious Lynch-candidate for Tomorrow. And should Dr. Raj fail his kill of Stay Puft toNight, I'd be more willing to see what's going on with him than with you. Why do you think I should kill Stay Puft and not Zedd? Reading back I see I might have jumped a to that conclusion a bit too fast. However I saw it implied so many times, I guess I just started to assume. Re-reading I don't think it was an unreasonable assumption. But you right - it was an assumption and I should have made it more clear in that post. This is what lead me to my assumption (in case you want to know): Alright. In the interest of semi full disclosure, and after discussing it with my masonic brethren. there are some things which have come to light. One of the masons got pm'd this morning that someone had left conclusive evidence on the ground of who exactly visited Batman last night. Zedd's not on that list but Stay Puft is. Main reason for bringing this up, just in case there is a run on masons tonight we don't want to lose data. Raj, would you please dispose of one of them at your earliest convenience? I will certainly try Earlier this Day you seemed to agree to take one of the two players questioned by the Mason out. Right? you and zed are scum. if you would have come back with something along the lines of well i targeted so and so but i ended up on blah, maybe. marginally. but you definitely tried to kill batman last Night. not very cool. The Peeker a (as confirmed as they come with out being dead) Mason points out that Stay Puff tried to kill Bat Mc. So I jump to the conclusion that a player (willing or unwilling) trying to kill our Cop should be removed as quick as possible. I don't think this assumption is flawed. My assumption that he's the biggest threat is further strengthened when you suggest that he might have been used by Scum (this point was already raised Day 1). But if he indeed was, then we still have a problem with a killer lose at Night, trying to kill Town. What of the possibility that the Scum redirected Stay Puft? Now might be the time for him to tell us who he targeted. Then you posted this and I really read it as a joke at the time: Zed's dead, baby, Zed's dead. That's why I figured you were saying you'd off Stay Puff. Followed up with Peeker saying: and puffy the masons and i, specifically, ponder about a redirection. i suggested it early on, remember. but if you are being truthful you need to die pretty damn quick. Then RedS come in with a post that indicates to me that Mason are convinced Stay Puff is truly lying. FTFY: one of the following two statements is true: - You have misunderstood something which causes you to put more trust in this information than you should.
- Mister Blockey is lying to your face.
- Stay Puft is lying.
Followed with his suggestion that either of them or both is lying. Leaving me with the feeling that Masons are still unsure what to exactly thing of Zeed: Largely though, redirector's aren't common roles and 2 in one game with none of them being town? It's just a lot less likely than Either Zedd or Stay Puft or Both are lying non-towns. I read the "either"-remark after a post very strongly indication that he believes Stay Puff is lying to open up for the possibility that Zed might not.
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Post by Total Ullz on Sept 29, 2010 7:59:43 GMT -5
and why would you question me when it seems quite possible that Scum have a roleblocker or redirector? I surpose it's for me. I don't think I questioned you. I understand the importance of WiFoM regarding Scum. I have no greater inSight to what you might do than I have of other players. I have tried to explain what lead to me my conclusion. I was under the assumption that we have moved past the "never point anything out in case Scum didn't see it" to "if I saw it so did Scum". That's why I didn't have a problem making my assumption known to all.
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Post by Drain Bead on Sept 29, 2010 8:03:03 GMT -5
Buddy Christ, I know who you are. And if you read other posts you'd see I called Elinor a "she." I do most of my reading from my iPhone, so I can't see pesky things like whether Elinor is being played by a dude or a chick. All I know is that you called me a dude, and I don't like being called a dude, even if I'm dressed as the Son of God. BTW, I would have gone as the epic Jesus Fucking Christ costume (a guy dressed as Jesus with a blow-up doll also dressed as Jesus bent over and attached to his groinal region) if I'd been able to find a picture. Sadly, I can't remember who on the SDMB had that picture to ask them about it.
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Post by Mahaloth on Sept 29, 2010 8:37:09 GMT -5
How convenient. I too had questions about my action, and the mods ignored me completely. How inconvenient for me, you mean. When I get home from work, I'll take screenshots of my PM's to the moderators. I'll also take screenshots of their response, but blur their answer so I don't get modkiled.Actualy, I might be able to do it from work today if I can figure out how to take screenshots on an Apple computer AND I can access Flikr to upload them. I'll try at lunch(I also have to moderate Lord of the Rings Mafia then, too), so give me some time.
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Post by Mahaloth on Sept 29, 2010 8:41:58 GMT -5
Uh, I'll have to do it from home mostly. I don't have a program to blur pictures on my Apple at work.
Or at least I don't know that I do or how to use it if I have one.
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 29, 2010 8:50:56 GMT -5
Chitter chitter chitter Little Indian Girl: Meeko was no where near Batman either Night. If your results say that he targeted Batman, then he's in the camp that distrusts all information you are receiving... please confirm or deny that your information matches the info we have provided here. we will certainly do so before Day end. and i'll double check with my brethren about timing but it will be in plenty of time. i would imagine tomorrow.
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