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Post by lianne on May 17, 2012 10:45:06 GMT -5
I do have one big question for michelehunter though. In this post you claim to be vanilla: The quoting was bust, so I underlined it. Compare it to jmj697mn #13 to see what was added. But in this post - you claim power role. I can tell you the way more than 1 died night one is because of special roles, where we are crazy, at least I am LOL When I die either by my peers in a town lynching or at night by a scum kill I will take one with me. Right now I don't know who will go when I do but there are a few on my list Sorry I had to ask the Mod if I was allowed to reveal this. It's not a special power, I can't help town in any way but to take someone with me. I can only hope it's scum. I'd be interested in the ideas of others as to who should go. I don't know if there are any more like me or not, (I mean left) as I presume that at least there was one or two last night. Until I get a really, really good explanation. Vote: michelehunter [/color] [/quote] So michelehunter is first claiming town vanilla and then town power role? Well she can't be both so she is definitely lying somewhere! It's just a question of where... She also says on Day 1 Vote Pleonast I am confused as why if you are town and have any special powers you would reveal it and make yourself a target? Read more: www.idlemafia.com/index.cgi?board=mara&action=display&thread=1918&page=5#ixzz1v8sKdk7eso she voted for Pleo as she did not believe that you would reveal your role if you had one. And yet this is precisely what she has just done.
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Post by lianne on May 17, 2012 10:46:46 GMT -5
Apologies - I had to cut and paste Day 1 as it won't let you quote directly because it is a closed thread.
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Post by Rich Beckman on May 17, 2012 10:54:58 GMT -5
Rich Beckman: You switched your vote on Day 1 #624 from septimus to starrirain saying: Gadarene has made a strong case against lynching Pleo or Meeko. I feel content to follow his lead. So...Gadarene has made no case against voting Meeko, just against voting Pleonast. Why did you vote they way you did? Following his lead gives us no basis for evaluating your vote and is pinging me as scummy. Gadarene: So given your near certainty yesterDay about starrirain, and given that you did lead the lynch, do you have any comments about way votes went down? To begin, as I looked through Gadarene's posts to find documentation, I noticed this post from Gadarene: Re: Day 0---CONFIRM HERE. [blue] Reply #133 on May 7, 2012, 9:20am [/blue][green] Gadarene [/green] wrote» Since today is the 17th, you may have to wait for an answer, and will probably have to re ask the question when he gets back. Looking back, I see that you are correct, Gadarene did not make a case against voting for Meeko, but he did on at least two posts pair the two up and hence conflated them in my mind: Re: Day ONE! [blue] Reply #282 on May 9, 2012, 6:16pm [/blue][green] Gadarene [/green] wrote » and Re: Day ONE! [blue] Reply #375 on May 10, 2012, 1:06pm [/blue][green] Gadarene [/green]wrote» I unvoted Septimus because my vote on him was based on how carefully worded his posts seemed to be. He had an explanation which may or may not be true, but no one was jumping in, so I felt unsure about it (that was my first day playing the game). I voted Starrirain because I accepted Gadarene's arguments about Pleonast (and in my mind Meeko) and a vote for Starrirain was the most likely vote to save Pleonast and Meeko given that Starrirain had, I think, eight votes at the time (judging from the record). Further, it was not like there was no evidence against her, weak though it may have been, it was as good a tell as we had in Day One: Re: Day ONE! [blue] Reply #175 on May 9, 2012, 9:56am [/blue][green] Gadarene [/green] wrote »
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Post by Rich Beckman on May 17, 2012 11:01:01 GMT -5
When did Gadarene claim a power role? Day 1 #501. Skimming is a scum tell I did read, and still do read, that as sarcasm on Gadarene's part. So I do not agree that Gadarene has claimed a power role.
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Post by AmyKay on May 17, 2012 11:51:59 GMT -5
I do have one big question for michelehunter though. In this post you claim to be vanilla: I nearly spit my soda across the room on this one. You are exactly right I don't care, I am only vanilla town and won't be any loss for us, if lynched and I didn't say anything about it before because WE HAVE The quoting was bust, so I underlined it. Compare it to jmj697mn #13 to see what was added. But in this post - you claim power role. I can tell you the way more than 1 died night one is because of special roles, where we are crazy, at least I am LOL When I die either by my peers in a town lynching or at night by a scum kill I will take one with me. Right now I don't know who will go when I do but there are a few on my list Sorry I had to ask the Mod if I was allowed to reveal this. It's not a special power, I can't help town in any way but to take someone with me. I can only hope it's scum. I'd be interested in the ideas of others as to who should go. I don't know if there are any more like me or not, (I mean left) as I presume that at least there was one or two last night. Until I get a really, really good explanation. Vote: michelehunter [/color] [/quote] two different stories = lying, which only scum can do, right? or can certain power roles lie?
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Post by Gadarene on May 17, 2012 11:59:35 GMT -5
Town is perfectly capable of lying. It's just usually not a good idea.
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Post by Pleonast on May 17, 2012 12:00:39 GMT -5
I'm coming down with something and my brain is rather mushy, so I'm going to do a quick readthrough and then go home to sleep. Please pardon any incoherency. What is the benefit of having a cleared Town Vanilla for Towns? Now, I know Crazy Town is not Town Vanilla. But what is the difference between a Town Vanilla and a Crazy Town with the Power being useless due to the claim? A player who has been confirmed town is useful even if they have no powers, because they will not be lynched. That means scum must kill them before we get to end game. (For new players "end game" is the last couple Day-Night cycles before either town or scum win. Avoiding a mislynch at that time is critical. Each player we are reasonably confident is town means we are more likely to not mislynch. So scum really want to kill confirmed town.) If the Crazy Town role claim is truthful, then it's likely scum will avoid killing them. So not only do we get a player who is confirmed as town, but we also get a player who probably won't be killed by scum. This is a very valuable player. Based on that, I'd be hesitant to lynch someone with that claim immediately. I don't think it can be a scum role. You don't think it can be a Scum role. I agree, such a role would be 'unfair' in the hands of Scum. You don't think it can be a Scum role. I agree, such a role would be 'unfair' in the hands of Scum.[/quote] I think it could be a scum role. Arguments about balance and fairness are useless without full knowledge of the setup. A lot of adjustments can be made by increasing or decreasing the number of scum, and town power roles, etc. We just don't have enough information to make a reasonable guess about balance right now. If I were to vote for someone I'd look at all their actions and posts. Not just this "slip"-post-theory. So I can't help but wonder why someone would vote for Wombat99 and no even mention the fact that he's been fishing BIG time trying toDay Makes me wonder if this is a lazy-drive-by-vote or if there is more to it. Is that a smudge? No - not really. I am calling Supermel scummy - but since I'd quite happy with my vote for now I'll not vote her. But I don't not like this vote and the reasons behind it. Huh. Because you found something suspicious about wombat99, you think the player voting for them is suspicious? That's backwards thinking. Here's forward thinking... unvotevote wombat99for 1: the potential slip of expecting more than one townie death, and 2: fishing for targeting information from a claimed power role. 1. Given that Meeko had more votes for starrirain, why did you not vote for Meeko? You had already stated it was a valid thing to do. 2. Why did you not vote for dizzymrslizzy given she also had the same number of votes as starrirain? What was the deciding factor. Because I'm leaning toward Meeko being irrational town rather than scum. And because (as I had already stated) I thought the case against starrirain was a good one. So I put a protective vote in what I thought was the best place. I do have one big question for michelehunter though. In this post you claim to be vanilla: The quoting was bust, so I underlined it. Compare it to jmj697mn #13 to see what was added. But in this post - you claim power role. Until I get a really, really good explanation. Vote: michelehunter This is a really good catch. I am very skeptical of michelehunter's claim now. I still think wombat is a better lynch, though.
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Post by Gadarene on May 17, 2012 12:08:20 GMT -5
You really think that michelehunter post is problematic, Pleo? Power roles are perfectly entitled to claim vanilla if they want to until such time as they feel the need to claim their powers.
Contradicting yourself about whether you have a power isn't scummy at all, in my estimation, unless the entire contextual narrative of the contradiction doesn't make sense. Look, I'll do it here:
I'm a power role.
No I'm not; I'm a vanilla Townie.
No I'm not; I'm a power role.
No I'm not.
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Post by kagemoto on May 17, 2012 13:02:07 GMT -5
To sum up my thoughts so far:
1. My Day 2 vote is still for mchlle71, and although I have some other players on my watch list, I feel comfortable with my vote for now.
2. While I have questioned Gadarene's many points of view, I do agree that a great part of his theories make sense, if taken alone. Nevertheless, I disagree with him that all his theories can be valid at the same time. "Most players are town" is valid, "there is at least one Town Vig" also makes sense, and "there is a Crazy Town" can also be true. But "most players are town, AND there is at least one Vig, AND there is also a Crazy Town" would just make the game too pro-town, and I don't think Idle as the MOD would design the game that way. In my opinion, it is likely that the Scums would have at least one Power Role. If not, the number of the Scums may be more than what we think.
3. I agree that a player who has been confirmed Town is useful even if they have no powers. However, if a Town player is a Power Role, and by confirming the Town player the Power is lost, it is a waste of the Power. The Power may be inherently useless, but if there is such Power you do not want to waste it. Also, the critical issue is the "confirmation", which is generally difficult to perform. I really don't think we have any way to confirm Michelehunter as a Town now. The assumption that it is difficult to make up such a Power Role is NO confirmation.
4. We are getting closer to the end of Day 2, and I think it is time to start checking more closely about the issues of lurkers. This is a team game, and whether it is a newbie player or not, Day 1 of this game started on May 8, 2012, and everyone will have more than 10 real life days to read by the end of Day 2. No offense to any specific player, but if someone can't make any contribution at all given the 10 real life days in a team game, he/she is not playing this game, and I don't think the person deserves the word "player" in this game. Real Life issues can't be overused as the excuses of lurking, and if you can't partipate regularly, ask for a sub.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 17, 2012 13:10:37 GMT -5
I'm willing to accept Silver Jan's explanation for her 'dual account' issues. I don't think we've seen an explanation from LightFoot, which I would like.Re-sizeing is mine. How? I mean how would you like to see it? Well, she could return in ghostly form and enlighten us, I suppose... I was trying to catch up on about 5 days worth of posts, and got a bit confused as to who was dead and who was still living.
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Post by patricia on May 17, 2012 13:11:28 GMT -5
Vote Meeko
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Post by patricia on May 17, 2012 13:19:29 GMT -5
My reason for voting Meeko is same as my day 1 vote - He jumped in on the first post acting like a helpful town. And has done the same since. I posted days ago that he was one I was thinking about voting for and that also got a quick response - why worry about one newbie vote? Also, someone else voted for Meeko also and he was quick to question that vote as well - Makes me think he may be scum more than I think anyone else maybe up to this point.
A note on Michele Hunter - She claim to be Crazy Town and if killed she can take someone else with her. So why vote her off today? 1. She is want she claims and the scum should than vote her off before she has the time to take a sure scum with her (this early she has a good chance of picking to kill off a second townie 2. If she is scum, the scum won't vote her off in night two - and we than could vote her off in day 3 3. If she is town or scum with no special role than the whole issue can wait till later in the game 4. If she is crazy town we should give her more time to find a scum to take with her? Just my ideas on this
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Post by Gadarene on May 17, 2012 13:28:29 GMT -5
My reason for voting Meeko is same as my day 1 vote - He jumped in on the first post acting like a helpful town. And has done the same since. I posted days ago that he was one I was thinking about voting for and that also got a quick response - why worry about one newbie vote? Also, someone else voted for Meeko also and he was quick to question that vote as well - Makes me think he may be scum more than I think anyone else maybe up to this point. A note on Michele Hunter - She claim to be Crazy Town and if killed she can take someone else with her. So why vote her off today? 1. She is want she claims and the scum should than vote her off before she has the time to take a sure scum with her (this early she has a good chance of picking to kill off a second townie 2. If she is scum, the scum won't vote her off in night two - and we than could vote her off in day 3 3. If she is town or scum with no special role than the whole issue can wait till later in the game 4. If she is crazy town we should give her more time to find a scum to take with her? Just my ideas on this Your ideas make a ton of sense.
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Post by Silver Jan on May 17, 2012 14:29:52 GMT -5
My reason for voting Meeko is same as my day 1 vote - He jumped in on the first post acting like a helpful town. And has done the same since. I posted days ago that he was one I was thinking about voting for and that also got a quick response - why worry about one newbie vote? Also, someone else voted for Meeko also and he was quick to question that vote as well - Makes me think he may be scum more than I think anyone else maybe up to this point. A note on Michele Hunter - She claim to be Crazy Town and if killed she can take someone else with her. So why vote her off today? 1. She is want she claims and the scum should than vote her off before she has the time to take a sure scum with her (this early she has a good chance of picking to kill off a second townie 2. If she is scum, the scum won't vote her off in night two - and we than could vote her off in day 3 3. If she is town or scum with no special role than the whole issue can wait till later in the game 4. If she is crazy town we should give her more time to find a scum to take with her? Just my ideas on this I think we should give Michele some time because, as I said before, she will probably take a Townie with her unless she is lucky. On D2 it would depend more on luck than a decent read on anyone.
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 17, 2012 14:49:53 GMT -5
I'm just about to start reading. Does anyone have a list of players alive at the start of Today please? I'll catch up with the dead a little later.
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Post by guiri on May 17, 2012 16:14:02 GMT -5
I'm just about to start reading. Does anyone have a list of players alive at the start of Today please? I'll catch up with the dead a little later. There'a a player list thread, or were you looking for something else?
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Post by guiri on May 17, 2012 16:15:59 GMT -5
I think we should give Michele some time because, as I said before, she will probably take a Townie with her unless she is lucky. On D2 it would depend more on luck than a decent read on anyone. But what do you make of her posts where she claims to be vanilla town but now claims to be crazy town with a power?
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Post by guiri on May 17, 2012 16:18:12 GMT -5
I was trying to catch up on about 5 days worth of posts, and got a bit confused as to who was dead and who was still living. Which conveniently clears you of being scum, or you're scum but haven't read the scum thread yet, or you have and it's a ploy, or you're Town and were just catching up. Oh, where's the wine?
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Post by Meeko on May 17, 2012 16:21:45 GMT -5
For the second time: WHY? My God, give a reason. Hopefully you won't skim this one.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on May 17, 2012 16:22:01 GMT -5
Can I ask....What's with the wine thing?
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 17, 2012 16:22:56 GMT -5
There'a a player list thread, or were you looking for something else? Thanks. I thought to look about ten minutes after posting. I think I've got everyone. It looks like we started with fifty-six players Today. So far I've got to page 2. So people know, I won't be available during the day tomorrow, or likely much of the early evening either, owing to an optical checkup scheduled for the early afternoon.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on May 17, 2012 16:22:56 GMT -5
My reason for voting Meeko is same as my day 1 vote - He jumped in on the first post acting like a helpful town. And has done the same since. I posted days ago that he was one I was thinking about voting for and that also got a quick response - why worry about one newbie vote? Also, someone else voted for Meeko also and he was quick to question that vote as well - Makes me think he may be scum more than I think anyone else maybe up to this point. A note on Michele Hunter - She claim to be Crazy Town and if killed she can take someone else with her. So why vote her off today? 1. She is want she claims and the scum should than vote her off before she has the time to take a sure scum with her (this early she has a good chance of picking to kill off a second townie 2. If she is scum, the scum won't vote her off in night two - and we than could vote her off in day 3 3. If she is town or scum with no special role than the whole issue can wait till later in the game 4. If she is crazy town we should give her more time to find a scum to take with her? Just my ideas on this Nevermind.
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Post by guiri on May 17, 2012 16:23:05 GMT -5
2. While I have questioned Gadarene's many points of view, I do agree that a great part of his theories make sense, if taken alone. Nevertheless, I disagree with him that all his theories can be valid at the same time. "Most players are town" is valid, "there is at least one Town Vig" also makes sense, and "there is a Crazy Town" can also be true. But "most players are town, AND there is at least one Vig, AND there is also a Crazy Town" would just make the game too pro-town, and I don't think Idle as the MOD would design the game that way. In my opinion, it is likely that the Scums would have at least one Power Role. If not, the number of the Scums may be more than what we think. Even if the secret roles are vigs/crazies, the scum could still have some of the other power roles. If there is at least one vig, a scum doc would have a purpose. And between masons, cops, docs and secret roles, a scum cop could be kept quite busy.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on May 17, 2012 16:25:10 GMT -5
So you are voting me because I am helpful, and asking for you to actually make a case against me. What makes me different from ANY OTHER player?
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Post by LadyRogue-II on May 17, 2012 16:25:56 GMT -5
AGAIN I will tell you I like to read ALL the posts before I make a decision and by the time I get to the boards to read most of the questions I might have are already answered or have been asked by someone. How about discussing and participating like the rest of us? It's a team game, not an I only care about myself game. Or are you worried you might say something and slip up??? As far as I know there isn't a Mute role! Please show me where in the rules of the game it says I have to clutter up the board with a post that really isn't necessary to help anyone decide who to vote or not vote for? If and when I see something that really catches my attention that no one else has already addressed thoroughly I will ask or state it. Until then I CHOOSE NOT to waste people's time by posting something totally irrelevant.
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Post by Meeko on May 17, 2012 16:27:01 GMT -5
I worry about the vote, because you haven't made a case against me. Rinse lather repeat with a few other Noobs, and you guys end up with a mislynch.
I kinda don't want a mislynch, do you?
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Post by Gadarene on May 17, 2012 16:28:55 GMT -5
I think we should give Michele some time because, as I said before, she will probably take a Townie with her unless she is lucky. On D2 it would depend more on luck than a decent read on anyone. But what do you make of her posts where she claiming to be vanilla town but now claims to be crazy town with a power? Did you read my two posts about this?
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Post by guiri on May 17, 2012 16:30:55 GMT -5
Can I ask....What's with the wine thing? Sure, it's a roundabout reference to WIFOM.
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Post by guiri on May 17, 2012 16:32:43 GMT -5
But what do you make of her posts where she claiming to be vanilla town but now claims to be crazy town with a power? Did you read my two posts about this? Yeah, my question was for SilverJan.
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Post by michelehunter on May 17, 2012 16:51:38 GMT -5
I do have one big question for michelehunter though. In this post you claim to be vanilla: The quoting was bust, so I underlined it. Compare it to jmj697mn #13 to see what was added. But in this post - you claim power role. I can tell you the way more than 1 died night one is because of special roles, where we are crazy, at least I am LOL When I die either by my peers in a town lynching or at night by a scum kill I will take one with me. Right now I don't know who will go when I do but there are a few on my list Sorry I had to ask the Mod if I was allowed to reveal this. It's not a special power, I can't help town in any way but to take someone with me. I can only hope it's scum. I'd be interested in the ideas of others as to who should go. I don't know if there are any more like me or not, (I mean left) as I presume that at least there was one or two last night. Until I get a really, really good explanation. Vote: michelehunter [/color] [/quote Sorry Cat, to me taking an unknown with me is NOT a power role, chances are greater than not that I will mistakenly pick a town and not scum. I have no powers to help town is what I mean.
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