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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 14:19:48 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Sept 10, 2009 14:19:48 GMT -5
What a bright and cheerful morning! Well, bright as blood and cheerful as Death. Special Ed, Meeko, and storyteller are dead. Is anyone really surprised?
Day Two starts now and will end Wednesday Sept 16.
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 14:21:23 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Sept 10, 2009 14:21:23 GMT -5
Huh, well it blows that some of my favorite players got killed right away.
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 14:26:35 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Sept 10, 2009 14:26:35 GMT -5
Huh.
I think I'm a little nervous about talking enough to be noticed toDay...
--FCOD
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 14:27:50 GMT -5
Post by julie on Sept 10, 2009 14:27:50 GMT -5
Oof. I have a feeling toDay is going to be a bit quieter.
That's an odd choice of targets.
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 14:51:32 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Sept 10, 2009 14:51:32 GMT -5
Well. That's, um, what everybody else said.
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 14:54:50 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 10, 2009 14:54:50 GMT -5
well that's kind of an eclectic mix.
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 14:59:00 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Sept 10, 2009 14:59:00 GMT -5
Yeah, it certainly will be quieter without Ed and Meeko - I wonder if they talked each other to death?
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Parzival
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 15:08:46 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on Sept 10, 2009 15:08:46 GMT -5
What's unusual to me is the number. Three kills in a night?
Wolves picked one, vampire another, and the vig chose a target is perhaps the simplest.
Otherwise there are multiple killing roles, which would be very bad. I would hope that if it's not the one above, it was a one-shot power.
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 15:13:07 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Sept 10, 2009 15:13:07 GMT -5
What you said certainly seems to be the simplest explanation. I guess it will be difficult to try to figure out motivations until we know more about the deceased.
After re-reading the rules I don't think there are any killing roles besides the wolves, vampire, and vigilante, unless I missed something. Obviously there could be a one-shot but it seems kinda early for that.
--FCOD
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 15:48:12 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 10, 2009 15:48:12 GMT -5
Bloody. So hopefully we have a coroner who now knows for sure what Boozahol's aligment was, and hopefully we have a Detective who knows who one of last Nights' killers is. Unless Boozy is something other than Cabal, I see no reason for the Coroner to potentially out themselves, and probably not even then. It is highly unlikely that Boozy would have been Town, so I don't really care at this point so long as he's dead. The info the Coroner (if we have one) might get tonight would be nice to know as well as the information potentially delivered today to the Detective (should we have one). I just urge either of those roles, should they be in the game, to carefully weight the implications of sharing their information or keeping it to themselves.
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 15:52:15 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Sept 10, 2009 15:52:15 GMT -5
What's unusual to me is the number. Three kills in a night? Wolves picked one, vampire another, and the vig chose a target is perhaps the simplest. Otherwise there are multiple killing roles, which would be very bad. I would hope that if it's not the one above, it was a one-shot power. Going with Occum's Razor...the simpliest choice is often the correct one. I can understand Storyteller if he was town, cause he's a smart cookie. As for Ed and Meeko, not too much of a surprise considering there were a few who seemed to suspect their tirades were staged.
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 15:52:30 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Sept 10, 2009 15:52:30 GMT -5
I meant Occam.
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Natlaw
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 16:18:02 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Sept 10, 2009 16:18:02 GMT -5
Is anyone really surprised? I'm surprised a bit as typically scum wouldn't kill players that distract town. Both Meeko and special ed got votes for it, so why kill someone that is a possible lynch? As for Ed and Meeko, not too much of a surprise considering there were a few who seemed to suspect their tirades were staged. But then killing them with that argument would mean there where two pro-town motivated kills (it was used Day One as an argument to lynch)? Unless we have more than one vigilante, I think at least one was a Wolf/Undead kill. I don't think a secret extra kill would be used so quickly either (unless it's a shared power which requires multiple players to cast). Also Conspiracy 2 had two vampire/wolves/vigilante (both more players as well), so two undead/one wolf kill isn't impossible either. A quick look at the votes of the death, only Meeko had one for pedescribe for supposedly baiting him which is not much of case to trigger a kill.
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Merestil Haye
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 16:44:24 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 10, 2009 16:44:24 GMT -5
(snip) hopefully we have a Detective who knows who one of last Nights' killers is. Not a chance, I'm afraid. The Detective's power is a Day power. That means results are delivered at Dusk. Since the Detective has to have a dead body to examine, and there were no dead bodies Yesterday, the Detective had nothing to do. They won't learn the results of their Day 2 investigation until Dusk. The first chance to report will be Night 2 - assuming they want to claim then (which I wouldn't expect).
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 17:04:18 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 10, 2009 17:04:18 GMT -5
Thanks. I was just going on face value of the Rules thread, which doesn't stipulate those specifics:
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 17:11:14 GMT -5
Post by Nanook on Sept 10, 2009 17:11:14 GMT -5
Wolves killing Story seems likely. It doesn't necessarily mean he is/was Town though, just means he wasn't a Wolf. He could be Town, Necromancer(since only a Vig can NK a Vamp), or a Cabalist. Not really a surprise, Story has a terrible track record of surviving Night 1 when he isn't scum on the killing team.
Natlaw, what you seem to be overlooking is that a Vampire has no reason NOT to play Town. It lets him try and claim Vig later, and all he really cares about are bodies. What drawback does he have? Less distractions for Town? That's a Wolf, and somewhat Cabal, issue.
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Gir!
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 18:45:06 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Sept 10, 2009 18:45:06 GMT -5
Is anyone really surprised? I'm surprised a bit as typically scum wouldn't kill players that distract town. Both Meeko and special ed got votes for it, so why kill someone that is a possible lynch? It's possible that one of them had pegged a scum somewhere. On the other hand, it's equally possible that they were chosen specifically because they hadn't had any suspicions against whichever scum group/player killed them, and the killer(s) were hoping we'd look at the people that Ed and Meeko had been suspicious of. Or maybe one was Wolf, and one was Undead, and they crosskilled each other? (Look! I'm in Fantasy Land!)
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 18:58:07 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Sept 10, 2009 18:58:07 GMT -5
Dude. "Occum"? Lay off the pr0n. I'm surprised a bit as typically scum wouldn't kill players that distract town. Both Meeko and special ed got votes for it, so why kill someone that is a possible lynch? Of course Scum would do that. Scum would do anything.
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 19:38:40 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 10, 2009 19:38:40 GMT -5
and i agree that scum will do anything. but typically it is scum motivated and oriented. so i kind of have to agree with natlaw on this one. crosskills help town more than scum in this game, so it seems.
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Day Two
Sept 10, 2009 23:44:08 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Sept 10, 2009 23:44:08 GMT -5
and i agree that scum will do anything. but typically it is scum motivated and oriented. so i kind of have to agree with natlaw on this one. crosskills help town more than scum in this game, so it seems. We don't know that yet.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 3:45:37 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Sept 11, 2009 3:45:37 GMT -5
Ok, so based of previous experience of these games lets throw out the following.
1. Mark me down as having last Nights kills were 2 x Vampire + 1 Wolf, which is balanced fine for this size of game (at least it was last time).
2. Crosskills: More please scum. Yes, the only way the town can win is if the scum night crosskill and generally screw each other over.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 5:35:38 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 11, 2009 5:35:38 GMT -5
i understand that. at this point all we have are suppositions. i was merely trying to indicate that i agreed that having ed and meeko knocked off seems odd since it would be natural enought to assume that they would probably begin the day at the top of the hit parade. and as such face a possibility of a lynch. having played scum before there is a natural inclination to let others do your work for you, if possible. now admittedly, the dynamics in this game are different because of the set up. however, it would seem that would still be a viable strategy. so once again, what's the motivation?
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 6:45:05 GMT -5
Post by PrecambrianMollusc on Sept 11, 2009 6:45:05 GMT -5
I'd disagree with CIAS - last game had many more players and extra bloody was promised so we had two vamps, a wolf kill, a vig and a one off Cabal kill - I'd say one wolf, one vamp and an over enthusiastic vig who decided the day chatter from ed or meeko was worthy of killing off.
If we have 2 vamps and a wolf, plus a vig - that's a lot of death for 25 players, plus speculated one off kills. It's possible that the vig does not exist although that would seam unbalanced for town to only have a lynch against multiple anti town killers out there.
That's not to say there were not unsuccessful kills - a scotsman may have been targeted, a vamp may have attacked a vicar.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 7:32:03 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Sept 11, 2009 7:32:03 GMT -5
Ok, The first game had 22 players, 1 Vampire + 1 Wolf NK. However, I will point out the Secret Undead power was to create another Vampire (curse you dotchan ) The second game had 31 players with 2 Vampire + 1 Wolf NK + Vig + Cabal one off secret NK. With 25 players, I still think 1 wolf + 1 vampire is not enough and given the previous games if a Remorseful Vig* is killing on Night 1, they need their heads examined. No I still think its 2 vamps + a furry.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 8:27:08 GMT -5
Post by julie on Sept 11, 2009 8:27:08 GMT -5
Dang, this game is complicated. I was thinking about the Remorseful Vig maybe being one of the victims, but had forgotten that there is a time delay in their death.
Side question: Is there any reason for a Remorseful Vig NOT to claim if it's ever revealed that they've shot a Townie?
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 9:51:32 GMT -5
Post by Nanook on Sept 11, 2009 9:51:32 GMT -5
From what I've read in past games, if there was a good reason to believe that the scum had a redirector, then that would be a good reason for the Vig to keep his mouth shut. Someone made mention of a game at another site(Giraffe maybe?) where a remorseful Vig came out after killing a Townie and then got redirected for several Nights by the Scum, basically giving them a double NK until Town lynched said Vig. However in this game there is no mention of such a power, unless it's the one off extra power of one of the sides, so I don't see the downside.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 10:20:03 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Sept 11, 2009 10:20:03 GMT -5
That would be me, and the game was on Giraffe, and yes, there are very good reasons for a remorseful vig not to claim.
If I'd kept my damn mouth shut, I would have died peacefully and not been redirected to Town. My question is, what do we gain by the Vig outing themselves in such circumstances?
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 10:28:02 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Sept 11, 2009 10:28:02 GMT -5
I suppose the gain would be that the claimed Vig could be saved via a block or protection.
--FCOD
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 11:08:04 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 11, 2009 11:08:04 GMT -5
Don't remorseful vigs have to kill themselves? How was one that had killed a Townie allowed to live and kill and be redirected for "several" more Nights?
I think any missed kills are unlikely with so many dead. I'm not ruling it out completely, just moving it down on the short list of possibilities. But when looking through the roles to remind myself of the possible (killing role + victim !=death) possibilities I was reminded about the Magician. If the Magician were targeted last night, it seems a reasonable explanation for a pile of Night kill bodies that don't make a lot of sense together.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 11:29:09 GMT -5
Post by Nanook on Sept 11, 2009 11:29:09 GMT -5
Generally, remorseful vigs kill themselves by being required to target themselves with their ability. Which would then be redirectable. Not really an issue in this game since there are no roles with an inherent redirect ability.
Cookies, why do you think the kills don't make sense? There have been several explantions proffered for what happened which make plenty of sense. Unless of course you know something the rest of us don't.
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