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Post by The Real FCOD on May 5, 2009 14:07:40 GMT -5
There was much debate in the Town Hall as the frightened citizens tried to figure out who among them was a member of the insidious Evil League of Evil. Eventually, it came down to a neck-and-neck debate between Inner Stickler and Sister Coyote. When the prescribed time came, more people felt that Sister Coyote was the better choice, even though a last minute call to lynch Pollux almost gained some traction. "No! I'm just a down-on-my-luck Chorus member who needed the cash! I can relay messages, don't lynch me!" At this point everyone faced a quandary...how would they actually dispatch Sister Coyote? A suggestion rang out: "Let's use some of this contraband we found!" Captain Hammer stepped out from the crowd. "Well now, I think that is just a great idea." Grabbing a device, he cried, "A death ray! Perfect!" Sister Coyote pleaded for her life, begging, "No! Please don't do this! I swear I'm town!" but Captain Hammer had none of it, scoffing, "I don't have time for your excuses. Say hello to St. Peter for me... or whoever has his job, but in hell!" With that, he pulled the trigger and in a blast of red light, Sister Coyote was dead. Sister Coyote (AKA Fake Thomas Jefferson), an ELE Strongman[/b] has been lynched. Night One will end on Thursday, May 7 at 3:00pm Eastern, or whenever all Night actions have been submitted, whichever comes first...so get those actions in! As a reminder, you may discuss strategy at Night. Also, is this the first time a town has lynched scum on Day One? Might be some kind of record... Notice: Please do not draw any conclusions from Dawn/Dusk color. I may use character names in the color, but that does not mean that any actual players who have the role of said characters actually performed the actions described the color. I will make it clear if you are to know that certain characters perform certain actions... color is just color.--FCOD
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Post by Pleonast on May 5, 2009 14:16:16 GMT -5
Looks like the scum have been provided with fake role pms. Another reason to be skeptical of any role claim.
We need confirmation of players. The Groupie claims are worthless. They can't confirm themselves or each other. There's no mechanism for them to be confirmed. Only Stickler's claim has any value, because he's going to provide us with information that is verifiable. zlw needs to give us a reason for fishing for information from our claimed investigator.
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Post by Almost Human on May 5, 2009 14:16:47 GMT -5
Nice!
FCOD we lynched scum on the first day in the Kiss game on FB but frankly that was more luck than judgement. The mod decided to do a 6 hour first Day and didn't tell anyone in advance so we pretty much ended up lynching a lurker.
It was an interesting concept and I wouldn't mind trying it again but with warning next time - quite exciting having to make your minds up that quickly.
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Post by sinjin on May 5, 2009 14:17:20 GMT -5
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on May 5, 2009 14:19:11 GMT -5
It happened in Evil Dead as well, so no record (yet ). One minute to go? Abstain I guess. I simply ran out of time here, but I realize no vote is bad. I was down to not doing a confirm lynch, as they wouldn't confirm anything for certain. Not sure if I would have went with Pleonast or Sister Coyote, so well, the record is I voted Inner Stickler and unvoted him when it didn't really matter .
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Post by zlw on May 5, 2009 14:21:20 GMT -5
You're really one to talk Pleonast, you of the weirdest claim by far talking about confirming when you said no one can confirm you even if investigated.
On to other things I'm glad it was SC and my hunch about her fake naive play early on was right.
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Post by Almost Human on May 5, 2009 14:24:34 GMT -5
Looks like the scum have been provided with fake role pms. Another reason to be skeptical of any role claim. We need confirmation of players. The Groupie claims are worthless. They can't confirm themselves or each other. There's no mechanism for them to be confirmed. Only Stickler's claim has any value, because he's going to provide us with information that is verifiable. zlw needs to give us a reason for fishing for information from our claimed investigator. Or she doctored one of the other scum's pms. I think ZLW's reasons were pretty obvious as Natlaw pointed out in the Day thread. In the show there are two anchors, one male and one female. And no, we can't be confirmed. I don't think you can either till you're dead. It doesn't matter. We play mafia and vote on who we think is scummiest. Right now we're doing OK.
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Post by sachertorte on May 5, 2009 14:25:20 GMT -5
Sweet! That was kind of awesome. And I think we have generated good data for the future! It wasn't a 'clean' lynch, so some nugget of information might be revealed from Day One.
Bad! So many role-claims. But it could have been worse.
Pleonast, you almost had me convinced. And for all we know, you could be right too. I wrote a long post on Pollux and Almost Human, but it got eaten since FCOD locked the other thread. I will try to re-create:
I'm treating the Groupies as a Mason group until shown otherwise. There is a bit of assumption and deduction in this stance so I will try and explain better.
I'm explicitly giving Pollux and Almost Human a pass for now because there has been no counter claim. If at any time we come upon a dead Mason or a counter claim, that status will be revoked. I've stated this explicitly so that everyone (MASONS!) know how I view Pollux and Almost Human.
I do not believe that there are no masons AND the Groupies are scum. I find that setup distasteful and irresponsible. Having no masons is a tricky setup, and we will have to consider it, but I see no reason to kill a Groupie now just to test an unlikely scenario.
I also reject the idea that Groupies can be recruited. In recruitment games, Masons (people who know the role of other players) are the first to get unrecruitable status. Doing otherwise is very unbalancing as if Pollux were recruited he could reveal AH's ID to scum. Not good and unbalancing to the game.
The main remaining concern is the possibility of mixed alignments amongst groupies. I feel that the actions of Almost Human appear Town to me. Also, I'm not keen on the idea of mixed alignments in a group. Pedescribe tried it and it was disasterous. Certainly not proof by any stretch, but enough to keep Pollux and Almost Human on the back burner for now.
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Post by sachertorte on May 5, 2009 14:40:02 GMT -5
A quick look at the end of Day One has me putting MHaye on the Town column. Towards the end of the Day he moved his vote (uselessly) from Sister Coyote to Pollux. At that point I don't see scum trying to save a fellow scum so brazenly (and futilely). A scummy MHaye would be much better served sticking with Sister Coyote. I could be wrong, but I view this as a point in his favor. Also, I have to admit that the "Oooh, some sort of message passing might be important" was giving me doubts too, so I was considering switching to Pollux. I decided against it, but I can see the Town motivation in that vote move.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 5, 2009 14:45:52 GMT -5
Also, is this the first time a town has lynched scum on Day One? Might be some kind of record... No. Evil Dead saw Macey the Deadite Strongman get lynched on Day 1... bussed by the Deadite Leader, no less. Losing our Siren (Bufftabby the Skanky Vampire Demon) on Night 1 put us under the hammer from the get go. Also, Night 1 of M1 (the very first game on the Dope) saw the lynch of the game's Godfather. So no, not really a record. Although it took me a long time to track down M1 (which is, for some reason, still in MPSIMS.) Killing a the ELE Strongman is valuable, because generally that deprives them of an extra Nightkill. An extra half a mislynch right there.
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on May 5, 2009 14:49:03 GMT -5
Well then... FOS Inner Stickler and NAF
I was right to vote for SisC. And now that the results are in, I see your votes on me in a new light.
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Post by Pleonast on May 5, 2009 14:50:48 GMT -5
You're really one to talk Pleonast, you of the weirdest claim by far talking about confirming when you said no one can confirm you even if investigated. Note that I'm asking that Pleonast be lynched. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ sach, my working assumption is that the Groupies are either vanilla Town or scum. Lacking any in-group confirmation means they can't function as a Mason group. I don't think it would be unbalancing for one of them to be recruitable (or already scum) because there's nothing special about being a Groupie (as far as we know). But I don't think it's likely they can be recruited (however, I do think it's likely that one of them is scum). In fact, I think the Groupie group might be a simple way to give some lynch protection to a scum. Either by giving us the WIFOM doubt like we're seeing now, or via a Lover's double-kill. I don't see a problem with a mixed-alignment group, because their PMs don't promise any alignment. This game has apparently been balanced in a creative way, so I think we need to be prepared to deal with unconventional roles. I think ZLW's reasons were pretty obvious as Natlaw pointed out in the Day thread. In the show there are two anchors, one male and one female. I'm not sure what this has to do with Stickler's claim. In any case, zlw fished for (and received) information about Stickler without providing any reason. Fishing for information, especially about investigators, is something that generally only scum do. zlw needs to give us pro-Town reasons for doing it.
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Post by Pleonast on May 5, 2009 15:03:53 GMT -5
It looks like three players have failed to pass the minimum post requirement: MiteyMouse, storyteller, and Boozahol Squid, P.I.. This makes them all vulnerable to a scum hammering Tomorrow.
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on May 5, 2009 15:06:13 GMT -5
Well then... FOS Inner Stickler and NAFI was right to vote for SisC. And now that the results are in, I see your votes on me in a new light. Would that be "FOS" as in "Big smelly finger of hate!!!"?? ;D
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Post by zlw on May 5, 2009 15:08:14 GMT -5
And you talk about me fishing? I needed confirmation I got it, and apparently barring Inner Sticklers denial my breadcrumbs were good enough for him as well. You put us in a pickle now though since you insist on knowing every town role in existence before we had a chance to get anything. I am a co-anchor an investigative journalist, I knew my other co-anchor was somewhere out here. And based on his sex selection and his usage of " a town investigator" I believe he is who he says he is. Sadly I am the woman, thanks a lot FCoH On the plus side the scum will now have to decide to off me or him. I will not divulge anything else, unless Inner Stickler agrees it is for the best. Pleonast, you have managed to get out more roles than anyone here, and you of early soft claim flim flam should get NO pass on it.
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on May 5, 2009 15:11:27 GMT -5
And you talk about me fishing? I needed confirmation I got it, and apparently barring Inner Sticklers denial my breadcrumbs were good enough for him as well. You put us in a pickle now though since you insist on knowing every town role in existence before we had a chance to get anything. I am a co-anchor an investigative journalist, I knew my other co-anchor was somewhere out here. And based on his sex selection and his usage of " a town investigator" I believe he is who he says he is. Sadly I am the woman, thanks a lot FCoH On the plus side the scum will now have to decide to off me or him. I will not divulge anything else, unless Inner Stickler agrees it is for the best. Pleonast, you have managed to get out more roles than anyone here, and you of early soft claim flim flam should get NO pass on it. You don't have to answer every question being put in front of you, you know... It could be scum fishing - so sometimes it is better to say: I'll not tell you - sorry.
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on May 5, 2009 15:29:17 GMT -5
So... wanna know how to stick your foot in your mouth? Here's how... forget that it's possible events changed after your last post of Day 1 and continue with your thoughts in Night 1 based on the lynch. Sorry... withdraw my FOS on IS... but I'm still watching you NAF I'm not positive that I believe IS's claim.... but either he and ZLW are town... or really bad scum.
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Post by Pleonast on May 5, 2009 15:37:19 GMT -5
zlw, I wasn't asking you to claim, I was asking you to justify your fishing.
But if it was obvious to others what was going on, or if your hint was enough to get Stickler to trust you, we should assume that the scum (who have the benefit of combining the notes and thoughts of several individuals) are going to figure it out. We have to assume that the scum will collectively deduce what any single Townie can figure out. Thus, it's best for us to put out in the open so the whole Town can benefit. Now our protector will know who to protect and our Night-killer will know who to avoid.
Furthermore, just because you know you're Town doesn't mean the rest of us do. And you were fishing, and it was anti-Town. It would have been better for us if you hadn't asked that question to Stickler. We would be able to confirm him by verifying his results. Your question didn't help us enough to counter-balance the risk you took by asking it.
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Post by zlw on May 5, 2009 15:38:44 GMT -5
Well Inner Stickler and I are town, but some of you already knew that now to find out who already knew and go from that. Like Paul I have some weird vibe on NAF can't put my finger on it but I am reviewing his SisC interactions as well as his Inner Stickler interactions.
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Post by sachertorte on May 5, 2009 15:40:22 GMT -5
Pleonast. If you are assuming that groupies are either vanilla Town or Scum, then what of Masons? Don't you feel that the eventual reveal of a non-Groupie Mason would be good information to have before lynching Pollux? Or do you feel that there are NO masons in this game?
I don't think zlw was inappropriately fishing. Quite frankly I'm glad he did so. Inner Stickler didn't reveal anything beyond "Male" and without that tidbit I would have been less believing of Inner Stickler's roleclaim. Though I think in the process zlw revealed something about himself. But ultimately it left greater weight to Inner Stickler's claim which I think is good.
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Post by sinjin on May 5, 2009 15:44:13 GMT -5
I hate to add more wifom to the situation, but I am totally not convinced that zlw and Inner Stickler are both town investigators. That would imply some sort of a detective masonry. zlw, does your role pm specifically state that the other anchor has the same alignment you do?
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Post by sachertorte on May 5, 2009 15:45:32 GMT -5
Ugh. I wrote that post half an hour ago, but had a meeting before I could finish it. I would have preferred zlw not to have said what he said. I'm surprised at Pleonast. Inner Stickler and zlw were in the process of handshaking. Why all the fuss? Oh well. Hopefully Pleonast will be dead in the morning anyway I think it was bad for Pleonast to press on zlw so much, but ultimately it is up to zlw to refuse to comply to unwarranted requests. I just wish I had put in my post before zlw responded to Pleonast.
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Post by zlw on May 5, 2009 15:54:25 GMT -5
I hate to add more wifom to the situation, but I am totally not convinced that zlw and Inner Stickler are both town investigators. That would imply some sort of a detective masonry. zlw, does your role pm specifically state that the other anchor has the same alignment you do? Not explicitly but enough to say I would lay money on it being so. Let's make it as clear as I can, I'm pretty sure his night option 2 is the same as mine but his night option 1 may be different. I don't know what else I can say actually without hurting town, I may have hurt us already and should have kept my mouth shut but I was being hit again and again with the same accusations and let it get to me.
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Post by sachertorte on May 5, 2009 15:56:58 GMT -5
zlw. Keep your mouth shut.
You will be accused again and again. Part of your job as a power role is to weather the accusations.
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Post by Pleonast on May 5, 2009 16:00:26 GMT -5
If there's a pro-Town justification for fishing, then it should have been explained, either beforehand or afterward as appropriate.
I'm not sure why you think zlw's question was beneficial. Look at the two scenarios:
I. No gender question. Stickler is protected and can produce results every Night. Eventually we either lynch him or let the scum Night-kill him to confirm the results.
II. Question asked. Stickler is partially confirmed ToDay. Our second investigator reveals herself. The protector will have to sip wine with the scum and make a choice. How many results we get will depend a lot on luck.
The cost was too high. Unless you think it was possible for zlw to handshake with Stickler without revealing. I think that is underestimating scum.
And, zlw, now that you've claimed a confirmable role, there should be no lynch pressure on you. But you will need to produce results.
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on May 5, 2009 16:11:33 GMT -5
Hmmmm going on the whole IS and ZLW can't both be town and investigator thing.... Why is it that ZLW seems to be confirming IS.... but IS is not doing the same for ZLW? Just seems odd that IS isn't confirming similar info in his PM to that of ZLW's.
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Post by sachertorte on May 5, 2009 16:17:06 GMT -5
I think zlw definitely could have handshook without revealing too much. The M/F question could have been done without much else. And zlw didn't have to reveal he was an INVESTIGATOR. I certainly wasn't concluding that. zlw could have been all kinds of other things. Power role yes, investigator, not necessarily so. In fact, I would not have thought zlw was an investigator since having two is less likely.
zlw was certainly over eager, but that doesn't mean much else. zlw revealed FAR more about himself than about Inner Stickler. The explicit fishing came from Pleonast and sinjin. The only irritation I have with zlw is that he bit. Again, over eager, not scummy.
I thought of another 'probably Town' data point.
Day One roleclaims were in the following order: Pollux - claims Groupie Sister Coyote - claims messenger bearer Inner Stickler - claims investigator
Sister Coyote (SCUM) claimed messenger bearer. If scum were devising fake roleclaims (and they should have been since the start of Day One), and scum can talk during the Day, why did Sister Coyote claim messenger bearer and Inner Stickler claim investigator? I would think that if an investigator fake claim was bandied about, scum would have had Sister Coyote use it. I suppose Inner Stickler might have been put on the spot, but I think this circumstance warrants a light data point in the direction of Townness.
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Post by Inner Stickler on May 5, 2009 16:23:40 GMT -5
I didn't know what to do. The fact that zlw asked if I was male or female was all the proof I needed. In retrospect, I probably should not have answered. I thought saying a instead of the investigator would be the hint the other investigator needed without seeming like too much of a giveaway. My hope was that I could gain at least the other investigator's trust without them outing themselves so that if I died by lynching or NK, the scum wouldn't know if there's another investigator. I doubt there are two doctors.
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Post by zlw on May 5, 2009 16:29:21 GMT -5
Yes I made a huge error and I apologize IS, and all other townies I made big booboo.
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on May 5, 2009 16:31:37 GMT -5
Yes I made a huge error and I apologize IS, and all other townies I made big booboo. We all do - don't feel bad - just get better and take it from here
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