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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 15:09:42 GMT -5
Post by Malacandra on Jun 1, 2007 15:09:42 GMT -5
How does the extra time work? Do we now have to pick between the three leaders or is anyone still fair game? You can still vote as you please.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 15:29:35 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on Jun 1, 2007 15:29:35 GMT -5
Oh for the love of God! Why are is a tie being forced? I think it's being forced because ONE of the vote getters is a pirate, and it's safe to force a three-way tie because there's no way to say one of the other two shouldn't be suspicious. At this point, adding 9-hours to the end of he day isn't to net us more information, it's only going to create more hectic vote changes which will actually dilute our information. It's bad to end the day early, yes, but this isn't early.
The more I read, the more sold I am on MHaye. Aside from the slip, and the posting patterns that Gadarene pointed out, I've noticed that most of his last several posts have consistent of contentless things (like who hasn't voted), and I haven't seen any kind of defense regarding the slip, or his voting patterns. This, to me, is a strong pirate tell because it's easy for information overload to help us forget, and if we forget why we voted for him (because he's not defending himself), maybe we'll vote elsewhere.
The votes for Hockey Monkey just... don't make sense to me, and while I see the case against FCoD, it really just seems vanilla crewman ignorance, not piratey.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 15:46:02 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 1, 2007 15:46:02 GMT -5
OK, this may sound a little convoluted, but try to bear with me:
It comes down to a 3 way tie between myself, FCOD and Mhaye. Each of us voted for another of the three. If any of us had changed our vote before the deadline, there would have been a lynch.
I switch my vote from Mhaye to FCOD, and FCOD dies.
FCOD switches from me to Mhaye, and Mhaye dies.
Mhaye switches his vote from FCOD to me, and I die.
Conclusions? Well we could all three be pirates and did nothing to protect ourselves. Unlikely.
If Mhaye were a pirate, he could have easily moved his vote knowing I am crew and it would be over. I'm now inclined to think Mhaye is less likely to be a pirate. Would that be a huge scum tell though? Is he a pirate and just waiting to see where the doubloons fall?
If they are both pirates, then I can see where either would be loathe to make a move.
It also occurs to me that all three of us might just be crew.
I took a look at people who had cast single votes and the one that stands out to me as a possible pirate is panamajack. He voted for Lakai. He has been flying under the radar and I hardly knew he was playing. I really didn't pay much attention to his posts until he mentioned me, and that I was probably just crew playing badly. (Granted) This is the kind of thing that storyteller was talking about...getting trust by ingratiating yourself to a crewman. Well I don't trust panamajack!
MadTheSwine is a single vote for Auntbeast, capybara is a single vote for MtS. Idle Thoughts and ArizonaTeach both voted for Kyrie Elaison. Auntbeast and tirial both voted for NAF. To be sure at least one pirate has a vote with the top 3 contenders, but I am positive there be a pirate in this group:
panamajack (this is my top choice) MadTheSwine capybara (I still have my crew feelings for her) Idle Thoughts ArizonaTeach Auntbeast tirial
Just because you are in this group, I'm not saying you are a pirate. Just that you are in a group with what I feel is pirate like behaviour. As someone else pointed out, they will be scattered about and not acting the same way.
That being said, it would have been easy for one of them to tip the votes. But would that have been a huge scum tell again? I don't know, this game is mind-warping.
Hal, I expect some sort of reason from you for your vote other than my notes told me to do it. It's great that you have a system, but please tell me which things I said that made you put a mark by my name.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 15:52:59 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 1, 2007 15:52:59 GMT -5
How does the extra time work? Do we now have to pick between the three leaders or is anyone still fair game? You can still vote as you please. Thanks Mal for the clarification. Unvote MhayeVote panamajackYes I realize this may very well get me killed today, but I feel like it needs to be done.
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 16:02:05 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Jun 1, 2007 16:02:05 GMT -5
As panama jack says: "If you don't like the top candidates, vote for someone else!" Vote NAF1138 And yes NAF it is largely because of that post you keep saying you want forgotten. "That one damn quote is going to dog me for the whole game isn't it?" Yes, it probably is. D2 P338 you suggest we need to look at other people, but as every post since has been defence - you haven't posted any leads other people can follow that might help find scum, just defended yourself. Color Removed. This isn't true. The part about me only defending myself from that point onward. You know that right? I did in fact move on to someone else. I moved on to Hockey Monkey. Now you may not like my case against her, but 4 others seem to. If she is crew I will be the first to drink to her, but she is playing like a scum and my vote is staying where it is. You know I ignored Cookies because I always think her posts are scummy, and I figured I could wait a few days to see what evidence other than my gut would bring. But maybe Pleonast was right about her being scum this time. FOS on you, tirial, because you couldn't be bothered to get your facts straight.
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Merestil Haye
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 16:10:28 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 1, 2007 16:10:28 GMT -5
The more I read, the more sold I am on MHaye. Aside from the slip, and the posting patterns that Gadarene pointed out, I've noticed that most of his last several posts have consistent of contentless things (like who hasn't voted), and I haven't seen any kind of defense regarding the slip, or his voting patterns. This, to me, is a strong pirate tell because it's easy for information overload to help us forget, and if we forget why we voted for him (because he's not defending himself), maybe we'll vote elsewhere. The tie was forced because I feel that FCOD is possibly scum. I could have allowed myself to be lynched - and indeed gave serious thought to it. The circumstances under which I would have foregone forcing the tie are if I was as certain as I could be that the other player in the tie was neither a pirate nor an active Vig/SK. I don't feel that way about FCOD. He may be pirate. So I tied the vote. Someone else coming along and adding Hockeymonkey to the tie is neither here nor there. The tie existed at sunset. I have already defended my slip. There are two parts to it, one contemporaneous with your initial accusation and one more recent. To put it all in one place. We (the crew) can only win by tracking the pirates. We can only do this by sharing information. We can only share information in the game threads. Therefore it is important for crew to be clear in their posts. If a crew makes a blunder which means readers may get confused about what the post means, this may result in another crew drawing the wrong conclusion and attacking another (innocent) player. If this third player gets lynched, both of us look bad. By contrast the pirates have to use confusion and obfuscation as tools. The last thing they want are the crew drawing the right conclusions. Now to the specific post, bearing in mind the discussion above. I made a mistake in drafting. It's something that I often do - my mind races ahead of my fingers, and I start thinking of what is coming next, and miss out a word or, as in this case, large chunks of a phrase. I reread the post (believe it or not) and spellchecked it. That did not prevent me from skipping straight over the omission without noticing it. I don't have anyone here to proofread my typing for me. Thus, having gone through my QA procedures, I posted it. As is my practice, I read it again to ensure there have been no garbles, and this time - after posting - the fact of the missing words leapt out at me. (This is a simple application of Murphy's Law. The error hid until it was too late.) In most forums I post in, there is a simple remedy for this - the Edit button. Put those missing words in, pronto! Here, in this game, that's a capital offence. Do it and die. The only two options I had were to let it stand, or to make an errata post. I chose to make an errata post to ensure I was not misunderstood. I was not thinking of Gadarene's "this is what townies do" analysis at the time. I hope that clears it all up for you. If you have any more questions, please ask them. After all, it's important that we understand each other's concerns.
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 16:28:23 GMT -5
Post by ArizonaTeach on Jun 1, 2007 16:28:23 GMT -5
Christ...home just in time. Aigh.
--unvote Kyrie-- ++vote MHaye++
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 16:33:18 GMT -5
Post by ArizonaTeach on Jun 1, 2007 16:33:18 GMT -5
Just wanted to get that in there in case the buzzer hit - I don't even know what the votes are, but I'm not getting that iggy feeling from a couple of the top vote-getters..
All I see from FCOD is frustration that people aren't caring to listen to his arguments, and that, you know, he's a guy. I see the same thing from hockey, just not quite as frustrated. Gad and Blaster, two people I'm relatively respectful of, make good arguments.
Finally, today was the last day of classes, and except for the occasional workshop, I'm done for the summer. On the other hand, I teach at a year-round school, so I only have three weeks off....
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 16:34:48 GMT -5
Post by ArizonaTeach on Jun 1, 2007 16:34:48 GMT -5
Hmmm...that should say "I don't even know what the current vote TALLIES are" for sake of clarity. The voting and unvoting and lack of an updated vote count threw me off, and I thought I only had until about 4:30 to vote.
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 16:40:31 GMT -5
Post by diggitcamara on Jun 1, 2007 16:40:31 GMT -5
Oh for the love of God! Why are is a tie being forced? I think it's being forced because ONE of the vote getters is a pirate, and it's safe to force a three-way tie because there's no way to say one of the other two shouldn't be suspicious. (snipped) Actually, no additional movement towards any of the three may very well mean: 1. All pirates are asleep at the switch 2. The pirates don't care who will die (remember, they know the allegiance of all the players) 3. All three candidates are pirates In MIII 1. There were two vote swings, of which only one benefitted the scum 2. There was one vote tie which was a tie between townies and known scum actually held back (By the way, my vote-tying action was, as Autolycus remarked, on purpose) unvote FCoDI can see no benefit for scum to have a tie between
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 16:45:44 GMT -5
Post by diggitcamara on Jun 1, 2007 16:45:44 GMT -5
By the way, under my name it says "Landlubber". Is there any way for me to change it?
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 16:50:16 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Jun 1, 2007 16:50:16 GMT -5
You can still vote as you please. Thanks Mal for the clarification. Unvote Mhaye Vote panamajack CHRIST ON A CRUTCH! I am getting too invested in this game. This will probably put my neck in the noose, but I honestly can't see why a pirate would make that move. I have 8 hours or so? I will be back. I need to figure out if it's the wine in front of me that has the iolcane powder in it or not. Fuck.
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Merestil Haye
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 16:50:17 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 1, 2007 16:50:17 GMT -5
I can see no benefit for scum to have a tie between This post looks like it was cut off prematurely. Between what?
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 16:53:41 GMT -5
Post by diggitcamara on Jun 1, 2007 16:53:41 GMT -5
I can see no benefit for scum to have a tie between This post looks like it was cut off prematurely. Between what? Aggh! I narrowly escaped an assassination attempt before I was able to disclose this vital information! (On a serious note: D'oh!)I can see no benefit for scurvy to have a tie between one of them and a crewmember.
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Merestil Haye
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 17:00:04 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 1, 2007 17:00:04 GMT -5
I can see no benefit for scurvy to have a tie between one of them and a crewmember. Neither can I. They either throw one of themselves to the wolves (weakening their position and delaying their win) or they vote so that the crew dies. Right at this minute, though, I suspect they are laughing at the prospect of a free shot at lynching one of two crew.
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 17:00:38 GMT -5
Post by tirial on Jun 1, 2007 17:00:38 GMT -5
Right, NAF; Starting from the post I quoted where you suggest investigating other posters: P348: Page 12 P348 - you defend and suggest moving on. P349 - you comment on Auntbeast's posts, restating what storyteller has already pointed out. P352 - another comment on auntbeasts smudges. P354 - another comment on auntbeasts smudges.
Page 13 P361 - comment on the number of voters P373 - comment on auto's vote to create a tie. P377 - asks me (tirial) to define why I suspect him (NAF). P382 - responding to Hockeymonkey agreeing they should be concerned about Autolycus's vote (if for different reasons).
My Post: P383 saying that you hadn't investigated anyone else after you made the suggestion. You hadn't. If I missed a post of yours then let me know. Then you post P394 saying I haven't got my facts straight in 383, and you moved onto hockeymonkey. When your only post before then and after you said we needed to move on that mentions hockeymonkey is agreeing with something that hockeymonkey said.
Now these are the only posts I can see in that period by you. You suggested investigating other posters in that period; you really don't seem to have done much of it.
Posts after that like 401 (too invested in the game) also doesn't have a lot of analysis.
Now can you see why my vote's on you?
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 17:15:15 GMT -5
Post by diggitcamara on Jun 1, 2007 17:15:15 GMT -5
(snip) Right at this minute, though, I suspect they are laughing at the prospect of a free shot at lynching one of two crew. Not really. Their primary goal is to stay alive (see storyteller's posts), so they're probably just hanging back and watching.
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 17:15:45 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Jun 1, 2007 17:15:45 GMT -5
Now can you see why my vote's on you? Frankly no, and I think it is strange that you are suggesting that I didn't make a case for another player as scum. I have for the past 2 days been convinced that Hockey Monkey was scum. I made my case and restated it twice if I remember correctly. Now I am starting to doubt that I was correct because I don't see how a pirate would intentionally throw themselves under the bus the way she seem to have. But you are really saying that since this morning I haven't tried hard enough to start a last minute band wagon for your taste? Seriously? I talked about AuntBeasts smudges because I thought the conversation would be helpful for tomorrow. I wasn't going to change my vote. I talked about who hasn't voted yet, because in my experience the people who wait the longest to vote or worse don't vote at all have good reason to be noted. Not voting is anti town. I don't care if this does look like an OMGUS vote. I can't believe that a pirate would willfully kill themselves so: unvote HockeyMonkeyand I can't believe that you really want to start a last minute bandwagon as a protown maneuver. And you still lied and misrepresented my posts. vote tirial.
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Merestil Haye
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 17:20:26 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 1, 2007 17:20:26 GMT -5
Not really. Their primary goal is to stay alive (see storyteller's posts), so they're probably just hanging back and watching. Actually that's not quite true, is it? Their primary goal is to win. Nothing helps them like crew vs crew because they can kill off one of their enemies without exposing themselves to much suspicion. I remain convinced that of HockeyMonkey and FCOD, the more likely suspect for pirate is FCOD. I really don't see scum behaving as HM did in the posts made around the time of sunset.
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 17:27:16 GMT -5
Post by tirial on Jun 1, 2007 17:27:16 GMT -5
"And you still lied and misrepresented my posts. " Where in the only post I have made detailing your posts, do you have a specific example of that? (Since I listed them in summary form) Have you at any point AFTER saying you needed to look at other people posted much analysis right up until I pushed you?
Also, no sorry, you have been tied-top on my scum list since it was posted. I am not aiming at a last minute bandwagon, just trying to vote for the person I feel most likely to be scum. And I am getting surer of it as you fail to justify your accusations.
I noted a trend in your posts, which I mentioned in 338. Since then I have not noticed a whole lot of analysis. I also notice you aren't exactly defending the signal to noise issue. That's 50 odd total posts from players. Ten or so were yours. Nothing which seemed like long analysis in the lot, right up to 407 which you only posted because you are being seriously pushed.
Still happy with my vote.
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 17:29:47 GMT -5
Post by Gadarene on Jun 1, 2007 17:29:47 GMT -5
Been cleaning up my apartment in anticipation of a new roommate, and just got back online. Only have a few minutes, however. And am for some reason omitting the first-person pronoun just like Bridget Jones. storyteller, you asked me to sum up my non-slip reasons for voting for mhaye. I hope it's okay if I just cut and paste my post ( #242) where I voted for him in the first place. I appreciate his recent explanation of his slip (although the other one, where he said Flint and apparently meant Steele, is interesting as well) and it very well might be that I'm mistaken about him being a pirate, but I still think he's the best candidate out there. Anyway, these are my reasons as I articulated them at the time: "To sum up: mhaye has been a low-volume poster who's been assertive and confident (yet not particularly verbose) in each of the posts he has made. He gives the consistent impression of choosing his words very carefully (with the obvious exception that I'll address in a second), which, as I said near the end of Day One, isn't something that strikes me as quintessentially townie behavior (insert disclaimer here about how there's a discernible townie tone but not necessarily a discernible scum tone, meaning that mhaye could simply be, for lack of a better word, an atonal townie). I've mentioned my theory a couple of times about scum likely scattering themselves out in a seemingly "random" pattern (kudos to whoever came up with that analogy a few pages ago; I forget [edited to add: turns out it was Blaster Master]) in terms of posting volume, aggressiveness, and style...simply put, the way mhaye posts conforms to one of the general "types" of posting personas that I'd expect to see if scum were trying to diversify themselves...and there really isn't anyone else in this game who posts like he does. (Consulting my handy chart in Post #142, I see that I've likened mhaye to storyteller---who's now been posting more often, and whose posts are more densely packed with insight and observations---and cowgirl, who posts much more often as well, and has been less pingily confident in herself. And Kyrie, I suppose, but he vibes way different also.) Finally, mhaye's interesting verbal slip in Post #59, which he admittedly corrected in Post #60, really stands out to me. For these reasons, of the players I've got my eye on at the moment, I think mhaye's the likeliest to be scum. Which is why I'm voting for him.
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 17:31:42 GMT -5
Post by Malacandra on Jun 1, 2007 17:31:42 GMT -5
By the way, under my name it says "Landlubber". Is there any way for me to change it? Post more.
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 17:40:32 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Jun 1, 2007 17:40:32 GMT -5
And you still lied and misrepresented my posts. Where in the only post I have made detailing your posts, do you have a specific example of that? (Since I listed them in summary form) Have you at any point AFTER saying you needed to look at other people posted much analysis right up until I pushed you? Sorry that I have been at work since then and didn't have too much time to do in depth analysis in those 5 hours. I was able to get a couple of quickie posts in that were an attempt to start discussion later. And one long defense post. Gee your are right. You can ignore everything I posted before dusk Today (6 hours ago.) Context is everything, you are ignoring it, and that is how you can misrepresent and lie with a summary. snip I noted a trend in your posts, which I mentioned in 338. Since then I have not noticed a whole lot of analysis. Once again, sorry I haven't posted enough analysis for your taste in the last 6 hours or so. Been a busy day a work. I figured that my previous posts about Hockey Monkey stood for themselves and that I didn't have to constantly repeat myself. I also notice you aren't exactly defending the signal to noise issue. That's 50 odd total posts from players. Ten or so were yours. Nothing which seemed like long analysis in the lot, right up to 407 which you only posted because you are being seriously pushed. Nothing which SEEMED like long analysis? SEEMED? Are you saying you didn't actually read my posts? I have posted maybe...MAYBE one or two fluff posts. MAYBE. I believe that at this stage of the game discussion will get you further than analysis and all my posts today were an attempt to either explaine myself or generate discussion. Still happy with my vote. Good, me too.
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Merestil Haye
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 17:40:48 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 1, 2007 17:40:48 GMT -5
(although the other one, where he said Flint and apparently meant Steele, is interesting as well) Talking about this post? That was not a slip. I said "even if you are Captain Flint" and meant exactly that. It doesn't matter whether Blaster Master is a regular deckhand or the leader of the pirates himself, that's still advice the crew need to hear. Why do you persist in calling it a slip?
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 17:54:51 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 1, 2007 17:54:51 GMT -5
So what's that mean? Never put it out there what you think or opinions you have? Seems kinda cowardly. How far can you stretch to interpret something in the favor of your chosen point of the day, Idle? In my opinion, you are far too completely self-absorbed to be of use to either pirate or crew, which makes you completely unreadable to me. I'll leave it to others to decide the merit of your claims. Hey, by all means, if I'm misreading or misinterpriting your posts, explain. Because from what you said there, it really seems what you said was what I put more bluntly. You seem to be saying (in that first quote) "Why should I say what my main point is for doing what I did so you can mistake what I mean?" And me, I'm saying, "why do you assume it will be mistaken? Why not put it out there and try explaining it rather than not saying nothing either way?" That just seems like trying to get out of answering the question. *shrug* Again, correct me if I'm wrong. I may be wrong. I'm wrong lots of times. Why not tell me what it IS you're saying, then, instead of saying "Oh you're misrepresentating what I'm saying" to an asking of me wondering why you're not saying anything in the first place!
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 17:55:16 GMT -5
Post by Gadarene on Jun 1, 2007 17:55:16 GMT -5
Because I misunderstood your meaning. Sorry 'bout that. From the context, I thought you were talking solely about townie roles, because the paragraph didn't make much sense to me otherwise.
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 17:55:40 GMT -5
Post by capybara on Jun 1, 2007 17:55:40 GMT -5
OMG, one goes ashore for a bit of leave and all Hell breaks loose. Ok. . . I'm not getting the Mhaye hate. Those two "slips" are such rubbish-- he's not that dumb, and I *know* about not being as dumb as one looks-- stupid phrasing but that strikes me as sloppy crew rather than moron pirate (this feels familiar to me so I empathize). Unfortunately I have no current strong feelings about any of these three; I think it's possible that they're all crew. I feel ever-so-slightly more suspicious about HockeyMonkey and the definitely male Cow, but I'll hold off and see if anyone that feels more strongly about any of them comes back in. For the record, my vote for Mad was before any of these three started to collect a pile of votes and is not a dodge (and also is not a revenge vote-- there are many many people I could choose for revenge votes, after all (either of two of the three fellahs standing on the gallows, for example)-- don't feel special because of that, Mad .
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 17:56:58 GMT -5
Post by diggitcamara on Jun 1, 2007 17:56:58 GMT -5
(snip)Actually that's not quite true, is it? Their primary goal is to win. Nothing helps them like crew vs crew because they can kill off one of their enemies without exposing themselves to much suspicion. I remain convinced that of HockeyMonkey and FCOD, the more likely suspect for pirate is FCOD. I really don't see scum behaving as HM did in the posts made around the time of sunset. ... we'll have to agree to disagree; in MIII one "honest scum" (aka Lemur866) not only outlined but actually followed the strategy I just described. And it makes sense, since often afterwards crew points towards votes against defunct crew to prove their suspicion against another player. And I'll add one more thing: after I voted to tie there were three additional votes for the vote leaders: Pleonast against you,yours against FCOD and Autolycus against HockeyMonkeyAll of them interesting, however, one of them catches my eye: Pleonast's vote to give you the lead benefits either FCoD or HockeyMonkey. If (or when) FCoD and/or HockeyMonkey roles are revealed, we'll have some more information on Pleonast as well. (I don't know what to make of Autolycus's votes, though. Is he just fiddling around? Or is there reason behind his madness?)
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 17:59:28 GMT -5
Post by diggitcamara on Jun 1, 2007 17:59:28 GMT -5
And on that note: vote HockeyMonkey
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Parzival
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Day Two
Jun 1, 2007 18:03:10 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on Jun 1, 2007 18:03:10 GMT -5
hockeymonkey - Your switch away from the other two may have saved your neck (so it's either a great pirate move or a decent town move). But your accusation of me is off base.
You said that by calling you crew I was scum trying to warm up to you.
Here's what I said about you (bolding added) :
This hardly seems an ingratiating statement. Realize that I was essentially saying it was okay if you got lynched today. You might call it a scummy (or cowardly) of me to say "she can die, I just want no part of it" and hold on to what is at this point merely a protest vote, but I certainly didn't think what I said ought to have put me on your good side. If anything, I insulted you.
I'm pretty sure that we do not have a pirate among the top vote-getters. You yourself just argued for that being the case (since it was possible to shift votes to send someone else to the gallows). I was half-heartedly for getting rid of who I thought was the weakest (you).
If not for the fact that you just made yourself look more crew-like, I'd probably end up voting for you since that was the outcome I was most amenable to. I no longer feel your death will reveal as much about those who did or did not vote for you, but it might be the best case after all. I also don't want to feel like I'm pulling an OMGUS vote.
Your other point was that you feel I'm somewhat 'under the radar'. I admit I haven't built a strong case yet, but after the first Day as a newbie, I was a little intimidated. For what it's worth, I'll try to spend some time and actually come up with a better case against Lakai (though it's hard with just a few posts). Unfortunately I probably won't have time before the Day ends, so I'll leave it at that.
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