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Post by Hal Briston on Oct 26, 2007 15:43:33 GMT -5
That's what I mean -- did she somehow think you were actually River, and my role claim was sort of scheme we cooked up? I really can't think of any logical reason for her to have investigated anyone other than me. That is, of course, assuming we're getting the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth from our crack moderating crew. But they wouldn't steer us wrong, would they?
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 26, 2007 16:53:14 GMT -5
Why would she link you and Hockey though, Hal?
And I really do hope you are River then, because having scum have a special role trying to kill you, makes you sound REALLY townie. But again, I have no idea if you really are the Real River. Only Dotchan2.0 would know the answer to that one....
But i'm definately gonna put you on the "Really likely to be townie" side of things for now.
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Post by Parzival on Oct 26, 2007 16:56:32 GMT -5
Hal, there is the possibility that you were 'investigated', and protected by the doc or another role.
It's even possible that it happened the previous night - that is the night of her fateful post.
Her role now sounds more similar to the one she claimed, at least in mechanics. So if she was possibly telling the truth on that one (and she had some motive — to make her appear legit to someone like Dio) she could have been 'blocked' from killing River on one or both nights. Or some time previously, which may have made her doubt Hal's claim?
I said I had other ideas on Fanty & Mingo. But since her role does sound closer to her made-up story, I'm guessing those roles, if they exist, do not work as she described, and aside from maybe being suspicious of those names if claimed, I don't think there's much to deduce from the false claim.
I get the feeling I'm caught up in discussion of past and maybe extraneous events. Time to actually work on finding a proper candidate.
I'd had some suspicions of mtgman, but now he's gone. Hockeymonkey may be safe, who was another one on my list, but I won't rule her out.
nesta, zeriel, and mhaye I don't know enough about, and I wonder if one of them might be semi-lurking scum.
As for the already claimed:
It may be time to reconsider our early claimants - How much evidence is there really to confirm dnooman, given that we don't know actually know what scum PMs say? (Day 1 is available now, though I haven't re-read it yet.)
We're getting to, or very close to, the point in the game when scum will start thinning the herd of "known good" roles. A few days ago I had the thought, and then it slipped my mind, that Cookies ought to expect death soon if she was telling the truth. I'm feeling a little like that about whatthefrak and Roosh, although I admit scum may be keeping them around in the hopes that we lynch them first. But is there anything you two can say to put me at ease about this question?
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 26, 2007 17:00:13 GMT -5
My suspicion list: (just people I don't feel as comfortable around/havent looked at/ neutral people too included):
Zeriel, Nesta (that odd powerclaim by Sinjin is what gets me), Mhaye (just cuz he's so low under the radar, i woulda guessed he's the survivor if there was any), and CatinaSuit, because of the fact that yeah... maybe we unvoted you too quickly on the basis of your name (i know it was a factor back then much more). Also, WTF just makes me wonder, because we have a doctor, would we also have another 50% doctor included? But due to the severity of that role, I would NOT want to mislynch him, so I'm just neutral with him.
I'd love to hear more from them on their thoughts on the game so far.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 26, 2007 17:03:12 GMT -5
Well, PanamaJack. I can think of a reason that I'm not dead yet.... Mostly it involves coming down to the wire, where a 1:1 sacrifice of Scum to Townie might not be in their best interests, especially if there's only 1-2 Scum left.
But if they wanna take potshots at me, that's fine with me, I certainly don't EVER expect to be night protected, and certainly hope not to be that or role blocked either. Just let me do what I do.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 26, 2007 17:38:02 GMT -5
It's getting to the point in the game where there are more claimed NAMES (not roles!) than none claimed.... Just asking... should we consider the idea of revealing names (not roles!) at least in the upcoming days? /ducks behind a rock Well, like I said yesterDay, there is a Brandon Shh in the game. Someone is that guy. This is for sure, by the way. I just don't know if he's a good or bad guy. I haven't seen him on any lists so he may be yet another unknown character or just a made up one. I think there may be a Jayne Cobb too because he/she/it is one of the only main characters left, it seems, who is on most the lists I see but who hasn't claimed or been seen yet. Not entirely sure, though. I very much disagree there is another Serial Killer out there. We already had an SK ( GreedySmurf). I can't possibly see there being two as that would cause a possible four or possible five killings a Night if you include everything (One from Alliance, one from Vig, one from first SK, one from second SK, and one from a second faction). We already know there is 1. in this game and we know there was 3 in this game. I think only 2. remains since we've seen no evidence yet of 5. and 4., to me, seems unlikely. Only Night 3 and 6 had 1 kills only.... Well, it is possible, you know, for there to be Doc savings. But why would we have TWO serial killers at the start of the game? (Remember, the not-so-dearly-departed Greedy Smurf turned up as an SK already.) The Nights with only 1 kill might be explanable as 1) a successful Doc protect or 2) one of the parties decided not to kill for whatever reason. Or three, one of the kills is based on percentage chance (like the vig having a fifty fifty chance of killing, or seventy thirty or whatever numbers it might be. Okay, major info dump. Here is a list like Dotchan makes only a bit different. These are the people left: CatinaSuit Dnooman dotchanV3 (replaces Mad the Swine) Hal Briston Hockey Monkey Idle Thoughts mhaye nesta (replaces sinjin) panamajack Roosh whatthefrak Zeriel v.2 (replaces Yattara) People who have claimed: Idle - Simon Tam CatInASuit - Wash Dnooman - Sheriff Borne Mad the Dotchan - Hector Mason (I forget the last name) Roosh - Inarra WTF - Zoe Hal Briston - River Tam And that's that. The rest of you are: Hockey Monkey mhaye nesta (replaces sinjin) panamajack Zeriel v.2 (replaces Yattara) Now....thinking there is a Cobb and Shh among the rest, that accounts for two more and leaves three. IF WE ARE TO BELIEVE ALL OF THE CLAIMED ROLES THUS FAR....and believe that Cobb (if in this game) and Shh (who is in this game somewhere) are good guys, then I think two of the final three have scum in them. Now, from that list, I'm not so sure I suspect Hockey as much as I did based on the target talk. However, one thing that's been mentioned.... Hal claimed River before that slip up Night. If Cookies mission was to find her, why did she not want to kill Hal immediatly? Why was there any question? Didn't she believe him? It really seems not and I wish we knew why. What SHE KNEW, I wonder, that made her think Hockey was River instead even though Hal had claimed River just the Day before. Makes no sense, really. Still, I'm taking Hockey off as leaning more towards Town. This leaves: mhaye nesta (replaces sinjin) panamajack Zeriel v.2 (replaces Yattara) And remember, two of those people are maybe Cobb and DEFINITLY Shh. So the other two COULD be scum. HOWEVER.... Obviously someone who has claimed could be lying much like Cookies was. The problem is, who? Really, we don't know unless we lynch or they mess up...but here are two that I find strange among the already claimed. First of all CatInASuit whom I've been suspicious of just about the whole game and who slowly started to take the lead in the last few Days. I've made it abundantly clear over those Days why too. And second of all, I'm suspicious now of whatthefrak...due to my taste of death and what I learned after that near death experience. And here it is now, revealed. I've kept it secret for two Days and Nights but I now think it can't hurt to make it public. There is another Doc. Yes, that's right..a THIRD one. You remember my old 50% + 50% = 100% Doc? That was a hint so that all of you would believe them if and when it ever came time to claim. And remember the other half of that? This does not have anything to do with anything that's happened so far? This is because I am not talking about WTF. So Roosh seems like he's already finding it weird why WTF would claim 50 percent Doc when there was already a whole Doc. At first I didn't find this weird..... ...but after I died and was told by NAF that there would be Two Docs now (me basicially split into two people, both with a fifty percent chance of saving someone successfully), I find it weird that there would be three fifty percent Docs in a game. So yeah... WTF has climbed up on my suspicion list considerably.
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Post by Hal Briston on Oct 26, 2007 18:05:31 GMT -5
However, one thing that's been mentioned.... Hal claimed River before that slip up Night. If Cookies mission was to find her, why did she not want to kill Hal immediatly? Why was there any question? Didn't she believe him? It really seems not and I wish we knew why. What SHE KNEW, I wonder, that made her think Hockey was River instead even though Hal had claimed River just the Day before. Makes no sense, really. Which is why I'm thinking that we may not have all the info -- something is being held back from us here.
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Post by dnooman on Oct 26, 2007 19:48:21 GMT -5
Now can we all name claim? We've done well enough recently that I think it could be helpful at this juncture. Roosh seems to agree.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 26, 2007 20:04:00 GMT -5
I keep thinking I'm not allowed to talk in here or play the game anymore. Keep mixing the two games up (the one on here and the one on the SDMB in which I was just killed, both games in which I play a/the Doctor). Anyway, I agree, Hal. But what could that missing info be? It has to be about something they knew about you OR Hockey that made it possible to think either you weren't telling the truth or that Hockey was a better chance at being her based on other things they knew. In either case, it looks a lot like you and Hockey are on some sort of side...but I dunno what that could be. I think maybe scum were either privvy to knowledge we don't know ourselves OR someone here is still lying.
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Post by Death By Irony on Oct 26, 2007 20:56:19 GMT -5
Or they figured that Hal was telling the truth, but they wanted to keep the town guessing.
(Because remember, the information that my previous incarnation revealed was that Caerie/chan could confirm Hal as River and Hal could confirm Jubal Early as the rolename that investigated him Night One.)
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 26, 2007 21:40:56 GMT -5
And here it is now, revealed. I've kept it secret for two Days and Nights but I now think it can't hurt to make it public. There is another Doc. Yes, that's right..a THIRD one. You remember my old 50% + 50% = 100% Doc? That was a hint so that all of you would believe them if and when it ever came time to claim. And remember the other half of that? This does not have anything to do with anything that's happened so far? This is because I am not talking about WTF. So Roosh seems like he's already finding it weird why WTF would claim 50 percent Doc when there was already a whole Doc. At first I didn't find this weird..... ...but after I died and was told by NAF that there would be Two Docs now (me basicially split into two people, both with a fifty percent chance of saving someone successfully), I find it weird that there would be three fifty percent Docs in a game. So yeah... WTF has climbed up on my suspicion list considerably. The 50-50 thing... Is making sense to me. I believe... That There was a dead doctor. And there was a Backup Doctor. When Idle died. The Backup was activated. But when Idle came back, we've now got 2 doctors in here, one of whom is town confirmed. So the mods fixed that. The back up doctor and the real Doc Thoughts were therefore probably reduced to 50% and 50%. So.... I'm thinking unless we've got 3 fucking doctors in here (and the Mods wanted us to have 1 full doc at all times PLUS the 50% doctor too), we got ourselves a liar. I believe Idle. And since he states that the 3rd Doc is the Legit one who got his 50% power POST Idle's death, that's why I'm thinking backup doctor. And since WTF posted waay before then that he was a 50% doc... Vote WTFYou gots some splaining to do, WTF.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 26, 2007 21:43:52 GMT -5
and because this was the first thing that came into my head on reading that:
[as Luke leaves before completing his training] Yoda: Told you I did. Reckless is he. Now, matters are worse. Obi-Wan: That boy was our last hope. Yoda: No. There is another.....
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Hockey Monkey!
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Oct 26, 2007 21:55:11 GMT -5
agh! new background!
do not want!
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 26, 2007 21:59:52 GMT -5
The 50-50 thing... Is making sense to me. I believe... That There was a dead doctor. And there was a Backup Doctor. When Idle died. The Backup was activated. But when Idle came back, we've now got 2 doctors in here, one of whom is town confirmed. So the mods fixed that. The back up doctor and the real Doc Thoughts were therefore probably reduced to 50% and 50%. No, this is incorrect. It was SPECIFICALLY made because they messed up on my death. There was no back up Doc. Trust me, I was told exactly how it is. But there IS now since I wasn't supposed to be killed (but was) and was confirmed. So I must lose half my powers (but someone else gained them). I do not know who that person is, for the record. But that is the truth...so I'm a fifty percent Doc and someone else is for sure. Therefore WTF claiming fifty percent Doc like powers makes me wonder now.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 26, 2007 22:07:57 GMT -5
Really, it's not so odd if you think that I'm just broken up into two people now...but it just boggles my mind why the mods would feel the need to put in another Doc besides me. I would think just making me ANOTHER fifty percent Doc (since WTF is/was apparently one) would make sense. But no, they made another besides me and her/him. So I dunno.
I don't DISTRUST WTF overly but yeah, it does seem weird that the mods would put three fifty percent Docs in one game. But who knows? Maybe they did.
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Post by Zeriel on Oct 26, 2007 22:18:33 GMT -5
Welp, I don't know what to think--I'm leaning towards following Idle's train of reasoning because it's damn compelling, but I want to hear from WTF before I vote.
I dunno what to think about the River situation, except that it actually makes me somewhat suspicious of Hal, because I can't think of a reason to leave him alive except to sow just this confusion. WIFOM.
Roosh's power makes me wonder. Sinjin/Nesta's claimed "minor power" makes me wonder.
And for the sake of people who think nameclaims will actually help, my role PM names me as Top Dog. NAF and Kat, I hate you both. =P
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 26, 2007 22:32:34 GMT -5
Really, my correction of Roosh is a point in favor of WTF. If it was like Roosh says (and there was a back up Doc all that time), then I'd think it would be really weird. But that's not how it was. There was no back up Doc originally to be "activated" after I die. It was just deemed that since I unfairly died but already had my role and side revealed by Mods, that I should have to lose something (to make it fair for scum). So I lost fifty percent of my powers. I was then told that someone else will gain them, however (not WTF--again, this was the Night I died and then came back). Really, it's like me being split up into two people, that's all. So take that all as you will. Me, I still think that CIAS is the most shady, followed by WTF, zeriel, panamajack, nesta, MHaye all tied in second place.
As for the other claimed people, even some of them could be lying or brainwashed. Wouldn't it be an EXTREMLY bastard mod that would make the mason brothers one good and one evil (but both knowing who each other are)? The good one would know his brother (but not know they were on the side of evil) and the evil one would know his brother (and KNOW they were Town).
Man, that'd be messed up.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 26, 2007 22:35:11 GMT -5
Vote CatInASuit
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Post by dnooman on Oct 26, 2007 22:57:07 GMT -5
I hate looking like an IT fanboy, but he said what I was thinking before I could post it.
Also, zeriel gets the stinky finger of doubt from me.
I also have to agree that nesta, PJ, Mhaye, and zerial seem suspect. IT first mentioned it, but I think it rings true.
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Post by dnooman on Oct 26, 2007 23:00:04 GMT -5
Oh, and Vote Cat in the suit. You seem evasive at best, and conniving at worst. Therefore, I vote that you die. No offense.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 27, 2007 0:30:57 GMT -5
As for the other claimed people, even some of them could be lying or brainwashed. Wouldn't it be an EXTREMLY bastard mod that would make the mason brothers one good and one evil (but both knowing who each other are)? The good one would know his brother (but not know they were on the side of evil) and the evil one would know his brother (and KNOW they were Town). Man, that'd be messed up. So what you're saying.... is we should lynch Dotchan a 3rd time? Cool. This... would amuse me GREATLY. But only as an outsider viewing the game, as a player, not so much. But still. A hilarious thought. ~~~ So Idle, you KNOW that a 50% doc was created after you were brought back... but assigned randomly to someone, who WAS NOT wtf? I'm just trying to get that straight. Because if that's the case, then I should Unvote WTF and instead FOS WTF. Because the idea of 3 50% doctors... just sounds weird. So basically someone got assigned the Half-doctor role? And was it pure random, or (i hope) a Townie person got the doc role. Cuz I'd be irked if the scum suddenly find themselves in possession of a ScumDoc to protect vs. things that go bump in the night.... However, on review, that idea seems crazy and out there. Logic would dictate that the 3rd Doc would be townie, but still... 3 half docs??? ( ) And... can you guys present some arguments for Cat? Like maybe posts or such, yeah I know we've all gotten a "scum vibe" from remembering his actions and all, but I'd rather have some... concrete data or something to examine/look at.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 27, 2007 0:40:53 GMT -5
So what you're saying.... is we should lynch Dotchan a 3rd time? shiny. This... would amuse me GREATLY. But only as an outsider viewing the game, as a player, not so much. But still. A hilarious thought. Ha, no, I'm not saying that. Least not at this time. But as the players get cut down more and more, I do think people need to start opening up their minds to new thoughts of possibilities. I don't think the mods would be THAT bastard, though. Those would truly be bastard mods. Yes. I know for a fact that there is another fifty percent Doc out there and it was only because I died and came back that it was done. There wasn't one set to take my place. And that this Doc has nothing to do with WTF or his/her claim. This is a third one other than myself and WTF.
Yeah, it was random. Least that's what I was told. And I assume it is Town. Dunno why it wouldn't be.
I would but I've said them all before many times....and then I resaid them when people asked me to say them again on earlier Days. If you really want, I'll say them all yet again (or rather find the reasons and copy and paste them) but right now I'm too tired to do much of anything.
See you all tomorrow.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 27, 2007 0:51:07 GMT -5
drain bead: Lynched Day Three - Kaylee Fry: Alliance Roleblocker Captain Klutz: Nightkilled Night Six - Hand of Blue, Alliance Agent Pygmy Rugger: Lynched Day Six - Lawrence Dobson, Alliance Godfather ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies: Killed Night Seven - Hand of Blue, Alliance Investigator ~~~~~~~~~~~~~` Just thinking about this.... Every role up there is Alliance ______, with the blank being a Job description or something.... Klutz was an "Agent". This is making me feel icky... because yeah, I'm curious about what an Agent would do. Agents make me think Spies. Spies make me think of "double agents" aka: people who switch sides, and the fact that Cookies and Pookie Greenlighted the killing of Klutz makes me think that Klutz's abilities weren't needed anymore. So a single use power or something? That again, makes me lean to Recruiter... But i have no idea who to suspect in that role, because that'd make Even Dnooman suspect....
And this day ends on THIS Tuesday, so take note Non-weekenders, the Days are getting shorter!
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 27, 2007 2:14:03 GMT -5
On recruits: If there was a recruit there would be two obvious players that it would have happened to. MadDotch and dnooman as both those two have pretty cast iron alibis. Personally, I am stumped as to who the remaining scum are as only a couple of people really jump out at me. 1. panamajack - for the mysterious non-night kill description 2. dnooman - for his almost complete attitude change over the last couple of Days. However, it seems that certain people are going to consider me scum no matter what ( Idle Thoughts, I'm looking at you) and I doubt any of points are going to get across, so if you are looking a for desperation lynch target close to the deadline, pick me. However this comment here irks me. Oh, and Vote Cat in the suit. You seem evasive at best, and conniving at worst. Therefore, I vote that you die. No offense. Conniving yes, manipulative, on some occasions, but I have never been evasive at all. Perhaps you could provide some proof of this accusation. Your attitidue change and this ad hominem comment make me think you have been recruited, so Vote dnoomanPS: You're just jealous, cos I'm Wash and you're not.
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 27, 2007 2:42:06 GMT -5
First of all CatInASuit whom I've been suspicious of just about the whole game and who slowly started to take the lead in the last few Days. I've made it abundantly clear over those Days why too. No you haven't made it abundantly clear. I have just read back through all your game posts to Day 1 and there is nothing in them, other than "Oh, I think he is scummy." That's it - no case - no proof. In the event I am found scum, you can than go, I knew it all along. In the event, I am not scum you can quietly drop the subject. Sorry Idle Thoughts, not interested. I want you to prove from my actions that I am scum. Go ahead. Consider it a challenge.
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Post by Hal Briston on Oct 27, 2007 11:26:43 GMT -5
I dunno what to think about the River situation, except that it actually makes me somewhat suspicious of Hal, because I can't think of a reason to leave him alive except to sow just this confusion. WIFOM. Except they had to lose two of their own in order to sow this confusion. Not exactly equal in the risk:reward ratio.
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Post by Death By Irony on Oct 27, 2007 13:17:43 GMT -5
I went back over Hockey's final vote tally's with our current living players to see if I could tease out any patterns, but I'm not sure if I found anything. (Given the majority voting rules, most of our living players were on the lynch bandwagons.)
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Post by Death By Irony on Oct 27, 2007 13:28:25 GMT -5
Gah, hit "post reply" too soon.
Anyway, I gotta work tonight (IRL) from 4:00 pm to about 9:30 pm EST--I'll do what I can to analyze and play along until then.
Good thing I read fast.
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Post by Zeriel on Oct 27, 2007 17:13:56 GMT -5
Hal: It would have been a lot more effective if Cookies had died of other causes than talking out of turn, don't you think?
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Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 27, 2007 18:26:52 GMT -5
Yay verily, I flounder. My notes are incomplete, my thoughts are fragmented and when I try to gather conclusions together they crumble into dust in my grasp. I'm trying a long-distance reread starting back on Day 3 because that's where my notes go fragmentary. The prospect of seeing Yattara again was looming large in my thought, that's my excuse. Anyway. One post I came across is D3.104. This post is by the late Captain Mal Reynolds. Now remember he would have had three investigations by this point. Does this read like dropping breadcrumbs to anyone else? Maybe it's just me. Comments? (Comments especially welcome from the one remaining living player. Belated happy birthday, HM.)
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