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Post by Silver Jan on Jun 5, 2012 6:30:35 GMT -5
Hal, remind me where you were confirmed as town again? [[Assume for breveity that I mean Mod Confirmed, and you will at once see the WIFOMeeko*.]] I know Hal hasn't been mod confirmed but remember that when Hal outed 2 scum the Mod offered us a hammer vote? This has only happened once so I think it sort of soft confirms Hal, that and the fact that he did out them.
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Post by Archangel on Jun 5, 2012 6:32:07 GMT -5
NETA : Is there any value, or in fact any actual angle in an Ultimatum to Pleonast that he state my Alignment tommorow, or we lynch him then? I don't see any value. If s/he states your alignment tomorrow as town it doesn't prove that s/he's a detective. 1. Pleo is town, you're town: Pleo investigates you, you come up town. Nice, but confirms nothing under the circumstances until Pleo dies. 2. Pleo is scum, you're town: Pleo "investigates" you, you come up town. Confirms nothing but gains Pleo trust when you die and flip town. 3. Pleo is town, you're scum: Pleo investigates you and we get scum. Nice outcome but the least likeliest IMO. 4. Pleo is scum, you're scum: Pleo says you're town and you're both "confirmed" and that screws town.
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Post by supermel on Jun 5, 2012 8:19:27 GMT -5
I covered this at length in night four. I didn't see any comment from you there. But, I've got two players that aren't me, understanding me. So I will take that for what it's worth, and move on. I know you did. I'm repeating it specifically for the benefit of the new players Pleo "cleared." "Clearing" newbies who are town is a powerful form of scum cuddling. Could you please explain scum cuddling please? Are you saying that If pleonast is scum, he could take some newbie towns, confirm them to get creditibility to try and stay safe from town lynching?
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Post by supermel on Jun 5, 2012 8:23:45 GMT -5
NETA : Is there any value, or in fact any actual angle in an Ultimatum to Pleonast that he state my Alignment tommorow, or we lynch him then? I don't see any value. If s/he states your alignment tomorrow as town it doesn't prove that s/he's a detective. 1. Pleo is town, you're town: Pleo investigates you, you come up town. Nice, but confirms nothing under the circumstances until Pleo dies. 2. Pleo is scum, you're town: Pleo "investigates" you, you come up town. Confirms nothing but gains Pleo trust when you die and flip town. 3. Pleo is town, you're scum: Pleo investigates you and we get scum. Nice outcome but the least likeliest IMO. 4. Pleo is scum, you're scum: Pleo says you're town and you're both "confirmed" and that screws town. ok this explains a few theories, thanks. I still am not sure what scum cuddling means in this instance though..
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Post by Archangel on Jun 5, 2012 8:49:13 GMT -5
Hi Supermel,
Scum cuddling is actions by scum that psychologically influence individual members of town to believe the scum player. It can be as simple as praising them ("Supermel is really smart, and is doing great for a new player!). Or it can be defending them when they're taking heat. ("I know you all think Supermel is scum but I don't; I'm convinced she's town!")
But the most powerful is to false claim detective and then "clear" someone who is town. If you are in fact town, you will see "I investigated Supermel and she's town" and be more likely to believe his detective claim because you know you're town and he "cleared" you.
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Post by Hal Briston on Jun 5, 2012 8:53:14 GMT -5
ok this explains a few theories, thanks. I still am not sure what scum cuddling means in this instance though.. Basically, it's when scum try and curry favor with town. Let's say I were scum. You post something about the possibility of one of my teammates being scum, and I come in with a post about how "That supermel sure is using some stellar logic skills to suss out that other guy. I think he's right, <so-n-so> is scum, and supermel is a snappy dresser to boot!" A bit of hyperbole, but the gist of it stands. That would be a scum cuddle (aka "snuggle").
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jun 5, 2012 9:23:47 GMT -5
NETA : Is there any value, or in fact any actual angle in an Ultimatum to Pleonast that he state my Alignment tommorow, or we lynch him then? I don't see any value. If s/he states your alignment tomorrow as town it doesn't prove that s/he's a detective. 1. Pleo is town, you're town: Pleo investigates you, you come up town. Nice, but confirms nothing under the circumstances until Pleo dies. 2. Pleo is scum, you're town: Pleo "investigates" you, you come up town. Confirms nothing but gains Pleo trust when you die and flip town. 3. Pleo is town, you're scum: Pleo investigates you and we get scum. Nice outcome but the least likeliest IMO. 4. Pleo is scum, you're scum: Pleo says you're town and you're both "confirmed" and that screws town. You are forgetting that he has to post his result. 1.It would get Pleo off my back, and hopefully a few others. Town doesn't like mislynches right? 2.Same as number 1. But now, you are assuming there are scum Detectives? I wasn't assuming this. Do you know something I don't? 3.This one doesn't hold water if you believe that Scum can have detectives. I'm town, but what's wrong with a Town Detective revealing results if it outs a scum? Wasn't this the entire conversation we had last night, when Colby11 claimed? 3b. Would I offer myself to the lynch like that, if I were scum? .... Oh, ok, "" scum wouldn't do that "" Do What? Have Pleonast out himself ? Didn't he already do that.... If we can trust him? He would then need Doctor protection after he posts detective results..... Which is so unlike the protection he essentially requires and or is hijacking from an naive Detective. 4.I'm town. I'll take a town result from a Scum. If we get to endgame, I'm sure that Pleonast will have painted himself in a smaller corner than this. But again, I'll take the truthful town reveal of me anyway I can get it, if would allow me to play this game more*, and have others look elsewhere. *Can you imagine a Meeko free of Paranoia? Free to go be a "A Dog and his Bone" on another player?! Doubtful I would vote for Pleonast when / if he reveals town. Nice truth table, though. It does consider things I didn't think of. And they are worthwhile to consider. But you will excuse me, as I know that two of them are false. I'm just trying to get Pleonast to put his money where his mouth is. I am vanilla town. I thought it was our job to die. I would rather die having advanced Pleonast towards one allignment or the other. Pleonast might not be a Detective, but he will always be a Dick. ;D
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Post by Meeko on Jun 5, 2012 9:26:25 GMT -5
NETA : I wouldnt look at Pleonast if he reveals me as town. The Dog and Bone aspect has been called such by someone else in another game. If I could control it, I would. Not personally saying that it is Dog and Bone, but if that is present, and it's something you guys can center in on, if it describes me so be it. Because, apparently, you guys don't get me by my own vocabulary.
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Post by Meeko on Jun 5, 2012 9:36:12 GMT -5
If we are deducing that Pleonast is in fact Town Detective, doesn't have to put his money where his mouth is, at some point in time?
Aren't I not consistently one of the leading lynch candidates?
Wouldn't Pleonast revealing me fix both problems?
Would you trust Pleonast more than me?
If I am revealed as Scum, then you guys can lynch me. Not unlike the multiple Days where I thought I was lynched already.
Ah, but I am Town. At mod-reveal, you would have a Lying Pleonast.
I'll take a VT for A Scum.
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Post by Archangel on Jun 5, 2012 10:03:58 GMT -5
I don't see any value. If s/he states your alignment tomorrow as town it doesn't prove that s/he's a detective. 1. Pleo is town, you're town: Pleo investigates you, you come up town. Nice, but confirms nothing under the circumstances until Pleo dies. 2. Pleo is scum, you're town: Pleo "investigates" you, you come up town. Confirms nothing but gains Pleo trust when you die and flip town. 3. Pleo is town, you're scum: Pleo investigates you and we get scum. Nice outcome but the least likeliest IMO. 4. Pleo is scum, you're scum: Pleo says you're town and you're both "confirmed" and that screws town. You are forgetting that he has to post his result. 1.It would get Pleo off my back, and hopefully a few others. Town doesn't like mislynches right? 2.Same as number 1. But now, you are assuming there are scum Detectives? I wasn't assuming this. Do you know something I don't? 3.This one doesn't hold water if you believe that Scum can have detectives. I'm town, but what's wrong with a Town Detective revealing results if it outs a scum? Wasn't this the entire conversation we had last night, when Colby11 claimed? 3b. Would I offer myself to the lynch like that, if I were scum? .... Oh, ok, "" scum wouldn't do that "" Do What? Have Pleonast out himself ? Didn't he already do that.... If we can trust him? He would then need Doctor protection after he posts detective results..... Which is so unlike the protection he essentially requires and or is hijacking from an naive Detective. 4.I'm town. I'll take a town result from a Scum. If we get to endgame, I'm sure that Pleonast will have painted himself in a smaller corner than this. But again, I'll take the truthful town reveal of me anyway I can get it, if would allow me to play this game more*, and have others look elsewhere. *Can you imagine a Meeko free of Paranoia? Free to go be a "A Dog and his Bone" on another player?! Doubtful I would vote for Pleonast when / if he reveals town. Nice truth table, though. It does consider things I didn't think of. And they are worthwhile to consider. But you will excuse me, as I know that two of them are false. I'm just trying to get Pleonast to put his money where his mouth is. I am vanilla town. I thought it was our job to die. I would rather die having advanced Pleonast towards one allignment or the other. Pleonast might not be a Detective, but he will always be a Dick. ;D Dude, this post is so confuddled you actually got me to log in from my work computer (which is from 2003 so I try not to breathe on it lest I break it) to reply, because it was impossible to respond to on iPhone. 1. This point would make sense, but you're forgetting that you dying in no way confirms Pleonast. If you flip town that just means you're town. Pleo could know you're town because s/he's detective or because she's scum. 2. See above. I am in no way suggesting that there are scum detectives and you saying I was would appear to be a smudge except it's so strange I can't imagine you would try to smudge me that clumsily if you were scum. If Pleo is scum, s/he is not a detective, but s/he KNOWS YOU'RE TOWN (if you in fact are). 3. First, see above. Nowhere do I mention the possibility of a scum detective. Second, I think detectives (and claimed detectives) who are out SHOULD reveal their results. I just don't think Pleo revealing results proves anything until Pleo dies. 4. I believe you are town, but for the benefit of the newbies, I don't KNOW you're town, so all the possibilities have to be discussed. OOG-- Who called you a dog with a bone? Curious, because I've been called that too.
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Post by Archangel on Jun 5, 2012 10:30:03 GMT -5
And Meeko, note I didn't include the possibility where Pleo is scum, you are town and Pleo says you are scum. That is extremely unlikely (though I probably should have included it for completion sake) because if you get lynched and flip town then Pleo would be next. It might be possible if you were doing great hunting scum (that might be a reason for scum to sacrifice themselves to get rid of you first) but you've said twice you're not going to actively play unless/until people stop suspecting you.
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Post by Pleonast on Jun 5, 2012 11:07:10 GMT -5
I don't buy your claim. You say you wanted to reveal results before Night so an NK wouldn't prevent you from revealing them? But we're allowed to talk at night. You probably haven't noticed, but I'm not online on the weekends, which is when the moderator has been having Nights. Anyway, I'm not sure why you think revealing now rather than at Night means I'm lying. You're wrong. It's too bad that you limit your play options so much, but I like to consider many tactics. Including high risks ones like in this game. Think about what you're saying. Why would I investigate someone I'm certain is scum? What information would I gain? I investigate players I have nothing on to maximize the information gain. Yes, that's a good thing. Claims made under pressure are much more likely to be false than those made under little pressure. And for the same reason, it's a perfect game for scum to lynch a Detective. After all, I can't prove my team. All you have is my votes and discussions and investigations. And there's no way that scum are going to Night-kill a Detective, so town really needs to lynch me to be absolutely positively certain of things. :sarcasm: This is where I am gang. I am still town, and I don't get the votes against me, nor do I get why I haven't been investigated yet. To that end, until I can get further on either of those, it's not like I'm going to be doing a lot of play on the game as it stands. You're so certain I'm scum that you're not even going to look for other scum? You're not even going to try to pretend to be town, but simply want to wait until someone wastes an investigation on you? supermel has been fairly active; and you respond to her latest question. As usual you give good Town-friendly advice: Since supermel and you were both posting relatively actively, it would have been very simple to have breadcrumbed. You could quote one of supermel's posts and write "I think she's right" or "Yes because ..." Such a crumb could have passed unnoticed, yet turned very significant if you were NK'ed and flipped Detective. Did you do such a thing and I missed it? I pick players from the list thinking "do I know anything about them?". On Night One I couldn't remember anything of consequence from supermel. There were a lot to choose from and that's who I picked. I generally don't do breadcrumbs. Town finds things that aren't breadcrumbs and scum find the real ones. Claiming I have a power role on Day Zero was the closest thing to one. One Night's worth of results isn't worth doing a reveal over.
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Post by Archangel on Jun 5, 2012 11:48:15 GMT -5
I don't buy your claim. You say you wanted to reveal results before Night so an NK wouldn't prevent you from revealing them? But we're allowed to talk at night. You probably haven't noticed, but I'm not online on the weekends, which is when the moderator has been having Nights. Anyway, I'm not sure why you think revealing now rather than at Night means I'm lying. You're wrong. It's too bad that you limit your play options so much, but I like to consider many tactics. Including high risks ones like in this game. Think about what you're saying. Why would I investigate someone I'm certain is scum? What information would I gain? I investigate players I have nothing on to maximize the information gain. Yes, that's a good thing. Claims made under pressure are much more likely to be false than those made under little pressure. And for the same reason, it's a perfect game for scum to lynch a Detective. After all, I can't prove my team. All you have is my votes and discussions and investigations. And there's no way that scum are going to Night-kill a Detective, so town really needs to lynch me to be absolutely positively certain of things. :sarcasm: You're so certain I'm scum that you're not even going to look for other scum? You're not even going to try to pretend to be town, but simply want to wait until someone wastes an investigation on you? supermel has been fairly active; and you respond to her latest question. As usual you give good Town-friendly advice: Since supermel and you were both posting relatively actively, it would have been very simple to have breadcrumbed. You could quote one of supermel's posts and write "I think she's right" or "Yes because ..." Such a crumb could have passed unnoticed, yet turned very significant if you were NK'ed and flipped Detective. Did you do such a thing and I missed it? I pick players from the list thinking "do I know anything about them?". On Night One I couldn't remember anything of consequence from supermel. There were a lot to choose from and that's who I picked. I generally don't do breadcrumbs. Town finds things that aren't breadcrumbs and scum find the real ones. Claiming I have a power role on Day Zero was the closest thing to one. One Night's worth of results isn't worth doing a reveal over. 1. I hadn't noticed whether or not you've been online at Night, no. Anyway, it's not you revealing now versus at Night that made me think you're lying (assuming you really are a town detective it is obviously better to reveal during the Day). It was saying that you chose to reveal now rather than at Night because you wanted to prevent an NK interfering that bothered me. But given you're saying you're not online at Night, I understand your statement now and it won't factor into my decision whether to keep my vote on you or not. 2. What was the town benefit to taking that risk and claiming a role on Day One? Assuming you're telling the truth and you really are a detective, what did you see as the benefit? 3. If I were a detective (and granted I've only been one once and died early in that game) I would want to have proof I was right someone was scum so that if/when I had to claim I'd take them down with me. "I'm a detective and I can investigate Meeko but I won't because I'm sure he's scum" doesn't have much weight. 4. I don't agree that claims made under pressure are more likely to be false. Scum are more likely to claim under pressure than not, yes. But anyone under pressure ends up claiming. 5. Yes, scum are very likely to nightkill a real detective, which is the number one reason I think you're more likely to be scum. You've survived 4 nights. The dead doctors have all been experienced players. Experienced players around here are not likely to protect someone who claims town power on Day One because it's a very anti-town thing to do. But fine. Unvote PleonastYou've made me doubt some of my case on you, although your stance on what I feel are the strongest parts of my case is unconvincing to me (not investigating Meeko and the fact that you're alive after 4 nights, which is an important part of why I voted you, though I may have forgotten to state it). I want to go back and read a few things and then I'll make up my mind. At any rate I strongly hope if you survive today, one of the claimed detectives investigates you tonight, preferably Hal.
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Post by AmyKay on Jun 5, 2012 11:50:27 GMT -5
snipped. There goes Meeko again, taking such a strong stance and outright attacking players. While I am not completely believing Meeko is Town at this point, maybe he's not Scum but really just is this rude to people. Similarly, these new points about how he's "not playing fully" make me wonder if he just gets worse or if he'd behave better when not questioned so much. So, I'm going to back off him for toDay and see if I can find another case to ponder instead.
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Post by Pleonast on Jun 5, 2012 12:49:10 GMT -5
2. What was the town benefit to taking that risk and claiming a role on Day One? Assuming you're telling the truth and you really are a detective, what did you see as the benefit? I explained this in detail back at the beginning of the game. Short answer: bluffing scum into leaving me alone until midgame, since the "obvious" reason someone would claim power role early is because they can self-protect. It might not be obvious, but creating confirmed townies is much more useful than finding scum. Town usually wins when scum have no place left to hide--each confirmed town reduced the hiding places by one. We need to lynch scum, but a Detective handing us one to lynch means we have a Day without a useful voting record. And the other factor is information gain. Think of the players who are barely participating. We need to either investigate or lynch every one of them (scum probably won't kill them), because without participation from them, we have nothing to go on. Underlining added--that is why claims under pressure are more likely to be false. Scum didn't know I was a Detective until now. They probably assumed I was a Doctor. Or that town would lynch me. Their mistake. And note that figuring out who to protect or not is not straight-forward. Doctors want to protect someone who is targeted by scum. Scum want to target someone who is not protected. So your "not likely to be protected" makes a good target for scum. Which makes a good candidate for protection.
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Post by patricia on Jun 5, 2012 13:26:01 GMT -5
Meeko - so you claim you are town and you are calling for a Detective to prove that - how does that help town? It seems to me all you care about is how long to get to play, you are worried about votes, you are worried about bandwagons, you are worried about you not your team.
I have felt for days that you are scum - The way I see it - call have a detective waste time on you is a win win - Most will believe you are town - but as I see you it you are clever scum. You have had a few votes against you (mostly mine and Pleo) but you have never been the lynch leader or even in the top group near the end of any game DAY but you have already said goodbye and claimed the game wasn't fun. Anytime anyone votes for you - You scream WHY WHY WHY and no amount of reasons seem to satisfy you.
Frankly, I think you are scum but even if you are town after your name calling today I for one I'm ready for a Meeko free game Vote MEEKO again
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jun 5, 2012 13:29:49 GMT -5
snipped. There goes Meeko again, taking such a strong stance and outright attacking players. While I am not completely believing Meeko is Town at this point, maybe he's not Scum but really just is this rude to people. Similarly, these new points about how he's "not playing fully" make me wonder if he just gets worse or if he'd behave better when not questioned so much. So, I'm going to back off him for toDay and see if I can find another case to ponder instead. Methinks I wooshed. Regardless of if Pleonast is lying or not, it remains a Dick move to claim on Night 0. You can make an arguement for claiming on Day 1, but there are no dice for claiming on Night 0. Also, I think, there is some measure of ...... locker room rapport with the group here, some joshing if you will. At least, I think some of it is that way. And I could be wrong. But yeah, my "Dick" comment was one of the lighter comments I've made at / towards / against Pleonast.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jun 5, 2012 13:53:21 GMT -5
Meeko - so you claim you are town and you are calling for a Detective to prove that - how does that help town? It seems to me all you care about is how long to get to play, you are worried about votes, you are worried about bandwagons, you are worried about you not your team. I have felt for days that you are scum - The way I see it - call have a detective waste time on you is a win win - Most will believe you are town - but as I see you it you are clever scum. You have had a few votes against you (mostly mine and Pleo) but you have never been the lynch leader or even in the top group near the end of any game DAY but you have already said goodbye and claimed the game wasn't fun. Anytime anyone votes for you - You scream WHY WHY WHY and no amount of reasons seem to satisfy you. Frankly, I think you are scum but even if you are town after your name calling today I for one I'm ready for a Meeko free game It helps town, because those players that are town will stop voting for me. If you [Patrica] are town, and you knew I were town, would you still vote for me? On second thought, I will get to this in a second*. Yes, I think that town has the best chance of winning, the longer it stays around. I am worried about votes, because votes are the only way to get to a mislynch. Why do you insist on calling the voting actions against me Bandwagons? This pinged me a few days back, and it's still pinging. I am worried about me. I am on my team. Therfore, I am worried about my team. I am asking for Pleonast to use investigate me. This is not a waste of time, nor is Pleonast "" a detective "". You are correct in saying that it is a Win-Win however; Pleonast has in effect claimed Detective, if he can truthfully confirm me, then it will confirm him. I get confirmed, and it would appear that he too confirms himself. If Pleonast is Town, I wouldn't want to vote for him. He can go a long way in proving his townliness if he were to investigate and confirm me. But as it stands right now, Pleonast and I both have Votes on us, and if we can be confirmed as town, it will remove those votes. Indeed a Win-win. I'm not sure I follow your "Meeko is very clever scum" gambit. At once you appear to be giving me too much credit per your attacks on my playstyle. Please elaborate here, how a scum asking to be investigated is "clever". I've yet to see any reasons put forth about how I am acting like scum. I've seen reasons as to your vote against me being Meeko, but those aren't good reasons to use in a case of voting me for scum. Meeko Motivation is not Scum Motivation. *It actually seems like you would vote me, on a re-read of your last line. At best, it's very bad play for a townie to vote another townie, knowing they are town, but wanting them gone regardless. At worst, you are scum, and I'm really, really getting to you. You are truthful in that you want me to go, but you are holding back your real reasons. And for what it's worth, wanting a "Meeko Free Game" is way more offensive than an offhand joke comment on Pleonast. If you lock into voting me because of who I am as a Person, and not because of my role, then I will have to meet that with an OMGFU vote.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jun 5, 2012 13:59:02 GMT -5
And Meeko, note I didn't include the possibility where Pleo is scum, you are town and Pleo says you are scum. That is extremely unlikely (though I probably should have included it for completion sake) because if you get lynched and flip town then Pleo would be next. It might be possible if you were doing great hunting scum (that might be a reason for scum to sacrifice themselves to get rid of you first) but you've said twice you're not going to actively play unless/until people stop suspecting you. As reason is not present in the votes against me, I can't very well use reason in the present to get those votes off of me.
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Post by patricia on Jun 5, 2012 14:15:17 GMT -5
Meeko - I would change my vote if anyone else had made any type of case - but maybe it is that I'm new but I don't see a case against anyone else at this time.
Maybe you would like to make a case against someone else - and if you do ever get lynch and turn out of be town - I will say sorry I was wrong but now and then.
This possibly isn't a game for me - as I find explaining myself in words hard but I'm trying. I think you are clever scum because - by asking to be checked most will believe you without the check giving you credit as town. My gut is telling me that either you or pleo is scum and maybe both - together you bring a lot of past game experience with you - and I think by banner at the very start of the game was a clever way of both of you get town credit.
You do add a certain spice to the game and if I had anyone else to vote for I would unvote to keep you around (for now) but very few people are even posting and hardly no one is post anything I can get behind. Sorry about the Meeko free game post - but I feel you are riding me hard ever time I post and I guess I'm taking it the wrong way. I'm against name calling even if it was cute.
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Post by starrirain on Jun 5, 2012 14:46:26 GMT -5
guiri & Pleo, I voted for annem in hopes of getting a reply, and I had also hoped to catch up on the rest of D3 and come back to post more and vote texcat. Obviously, I didn't make it back to the latter because of real life getting in the way. Also, Pleo, as to your 'reason' for voting me toDay, I DID actually vote someone who I think is scum, in case you missed that in my post for that Day, just sayin'. Take it out on me if you want to, but you all have real lives, and I do as well, and mine gets in the way just as everyone elses does. I would apologize again, but I don't feel the need to keep saying sorry for life being crazy busy. There are others who are and have been way less active and/or vocal about their thoughts than I. My post was to sum up my thoughts for that Day and get them out there just in case I didn't have a chance to get back to it, not to 'deny responsibility for lynching town but claim credit if texcat comes up scum.' as Pleo put it. I thought people might want my opinions, since that's what we've been asking for all along. I don't care about getting credit for anything, what I care about is our Town finding/lynching Scum. I did the best I could given the experience I have and the time I had(or in this case didn't have). It almost didn't post at all since my bright self didn't bother to log in before trying to reply, doh! But luckily, I noticed a few hours later as I passed my pc and bumped my mouse that it hadn't posted in the first place or I wouldn't have even gotten any actual input in for the Day. I thought of voting annem and unvoting and voting texcat, but I didn't want her to miss my calling out to her, and also haven't quite figured out how I feel about voting/unvoting/voting again in the same post (for myself and the way I'm developing my gameplay that is to say, not that I'm casting judgement on people who do this, but please note I'm still very much developing my gameplay), does that make sense? Always open to comments/constructive criticizm, this is how us noob's know if we're actually getting it LOL! Pleo, why haven't you investigated Meeko? You've been calling for his lynch since D1. Wouldn't you want to confirm him one way or the other? All this fighting between the two of you is nothing but a huge mess IF you are a Town detective as you claim and he flips Town. I can't make sense of it at all. You keep pushing for his lynch, yet you haven't even bothered to investigate him? This is still my first game, but were I the experienced detective, I might think of weeding out the more experienced scum first off before going after the newbies and lurkers, as the older players who are scum pose more of a threat to town in general imho. I understand you say newbies have a greater chance of being mislynched as your explanation. I know firsthand as my former self was a shining example D1 in this game. Yet, you didn't have a problem mislynching me then to save your ass from the lynch lead, even stating there were 2 people you thought were better lynches for the Day in your voting post. So you want to save new Townies from being mislynched, or you want to save yourself? Mixed signals? Me? I want to save my Town! We're in it to win after all, and IF you are a Town detective, you have had several chances to confirm Meeko...why haven't you? Why make a huge scene about him when you could have figured it all out on your own over night by now? THIS stinks like scum. I hope we have another detective in play (not ignoring your claim Colby, but in my eyes we've confirmed only Hal as (living) detective to this point), but it's uncertain as stated in the 'Roles' section, still the information you provided is a null tell to me at this point Pleo. Scum know who Town are anyhow, I remain unconvinced. -snipped- It's not as useful to investigate a claimed power role because we will have other information to evaluate them. Sure, an investigation of a claimed power role is somewhat useful, but it's more useful to investigate someone we have nothing on. I couldn't help but notice that NOW you say it's not AS useful to investigate a claimed power role, I believe your previous post went something like this if I may snip another quote: First, it's not useful to investigate a claimed power role. So is it useful, or isn't it? I just keep getting mixed signals from you that don't read Town to me. And then you say in post #74 toDay 'It might not be obvious, but creating confirmed townies is much more useful than finding scum. Town usually wins when scum have no place left to hide--each confirmed town reduced the hiding places by one." So WHY NOT confirm Meeko one way or the other? Meeko, I see people saying you say you won't play til people stop suspecting you. I've not had the time to search for this post, but WHY!!? If in fact you did say so, this is so very anti Town. People may never stop suspecting you til you die, but you won't convince them of anything pouting in the corner til no one is voting on you. We NEED you players with more experience to pull it together! Do you refuse to hunt scum in any game when there are votes on you? I don't get it, and can't see how it's productive. Especially given the fact there was more than one Day I saw you surprised to be alive...be alive man!!! Use the time you still have in Game to help hunt scum! This thing between you and Pleo is making me batty! Really, in D5 you must have at least one other suspect than Pleo? Would it be simply too much to ask for the two of you, Meeko and Pleo, to set aside your personal issues with each other when it comes game time and try and work together as Town since that is what you're both claiming? Maybe you will have mutual ground yet undiscovered? I died and came back Vanilla if anyone is curious (the subbing makes mah brain melt trying to keep up with) so I totally get others' confusion there. Old me was only around for D1 and new me came back in D3.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 5, 2012 15:22:31 GMT -5
Meeko - 2 votes (Mahaloth, patricia) Pleonast - 1 vote (Archangel, Meeko) JustbeingGinger - 1 vote (Colby11) Starrirain - 1 vote (Pleonast)
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jun 5, 2012 15:32:37 GMT -5
Need to re-do the vote count, you've got two names for Pleonast voters
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Post by Pleonast on Jun 5, 2012 15:51:16 GMT -5
Hmm, starrirain, your voting still makes me think scummy, but your explanation is plausible. I think there's a more obvious vote now anyway. unvote starrirainvote Meekofor 1: hyper-defensive when anyone comments or votes for them. 2: lack of positive contributions about who is scum outside those accusing them. 3: refusal to do anything positive until they're either investigated or Pleo is dead. Pleo, why haven't you investigated Meeko? You've been calling for his lynch since D1. Wouldn't you want to confirm him one way or the other? All this fighting between the two of you is nothing but a huge mess IF you are a Town detective as you claim and he flips Town. I can't make sense of it at all. You keep pushing for his lynch, yet you haven't even bothered to investigate him? Meeko has made it clear enough which team they're on. Using one of a limited number of investigations would be a waste. I'm sorry if it's not clear. Yes, we could gain some information from investigation a claimed power role. But a claimed power role will generate plenty of info by themself. It's better to use an investigation on someone we have little to no info on.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jun 5, 2012 15:58:55 GMT -5
3: refusal to do anything positive until they're either investigated or Pleo is dead. You vote for me, because you know you are not a detective. And now the rest of us know it too. You want hyper-defensive? What is this comming from you Pleo? All you have to do is investigate me. It's real simple and easy for a REAL detective to do. But you can't. And that makes me sad.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jun 5, 2012 16:01:16 GMT -5
Meeko has made it clear enough which team they're on. Using one of a limited number of investigations would be a waste. A Detective wouldn't have to say this.
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Post by wombat99 on Jun 5, 2012 17:12:32 GMT -5
Hal has investigated Colby11 and declared him town: <FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">Well, looks like we're getting a good list of confirmed*-town going. I'll add to that by letting you know I was inspired by Meeko's paranoia and took a look at colby11 last night. He's town as well. *As in "someone claiming detective has confirmed them". Colby11 has claimed detective and says he will reveal his investigation results today: <FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">42 players remain. We know for certain that at most there will be 3 kills. I think Pleonast might be onto something with the number of scum and the night kill in Day 4. 4 scum have been killed, and it seems that there was only 2 kills last Night. So I want to say that there are 8 scum left. About this time, I am wanting detectives to go ahead and claim tomorrow... Along with whoever I investigate... To all the new players regarding the subs- Usually subs are not brought in this late in the game. I think Chris is just shorthanded, and people who signed up for the PR contest decided to walk out. If you like this game, feel free to keep playing. Yet Colby11 makes a random vote. <FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">Pleonast- want to reveal if you actually have a power, as you suggested on Night 0. Meanwhile, I have no clue who to vote for, so I am voting for my favorite number, 32... Vote JustbeingGinger Are you just waiting until later in the Day? What is the advantage to that? *confused*
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Post by starrirain on Jun 5, 2012 17:37:26 GMT -5
Pleo, thank you for the clarification on the confusing statements. I suppose the both of you are just going to ignore my suggestion to try and build productive cases outside of each other. I for one am moving on with the Day as there is still much time left before anyone will be lynched or investigated. Asking for things that aren't going to happen for yet a few more real life days seems unproductive to me. I for one would love to hear from texcat (as I think I finally caught up on all the reading I was behind on). So let's start there! texcat, do you think that by Tomorrow or Day 14 your posts will be more informative? I have been patiently awaiting your input on who may or may not be scum, yet your last thought about anyone, other than endhoot, seems to be Suburban and their random vote on dizzy back in D1. TOWN obviously aren't gaining much insight on the Day since people don't seem to want to share their opinions. I'm not trying to be mean, but honestly where is the town mentality here? I see you vote to end Day now, without not a thought on whom else we should be considering. I did take note of the fact that you have a real life and weren't able to play for a bit. But N2, you say you will post more thoughts Tomorrow, yet you fall right in with the crowd, not to mention the subtle pushing about people revealing their roles. Then slip back in to vote end day, with STILL no other suspects. Isn't it some kind of a scum tell to not actually hunt scum? Smudging...a lil perhaps, but I do believe you to be on the scummy side. I welcome thoughts and comments. My thoughts about talking on a day when the lynch is given are much like talking at night. The info does not help town make a decision, but it certainly helps scum make a decision. Let's look at what's happened Today. We've exposed the masons for the scum. Was there any reason to do that Today, or could it have waited until Tomorrow? With one dead mason, they were going to need to claim at some point, but it looks to me like we've just given the scum a bunch of targets. I can understand that everyone has their own way of playing, but I still don't see you hunting scum. No one could have predicted that 2 Masons would out themselves later in the Day, just as no one could have predicted our 2nd crazy would kill another Mason not long thereafter. From what I can tell their is no clear right or wrong way/time to claim. But I can say on the bright side, not that I want to lose ANY Town, the exposed Masons did make more juicy targets for scum, hopefully giving our newly claimed(at the time) Detective Hal more of a chance to survive the night. This however is not stopping them from taking out power roles who have not claimed, which leads me to believe there is plenty of experience on the scum team. Experience you seem to have, but the input for Town just isn't there, at least not that I can make out. I agree! I was just thinking in the shower about that statment texcat made...how could Hal have know he would prevent a mislynch, being that to my understanding a detective gets to investigate one suspect a night, and he had investigated 2 scum in the 2 nights he had to do so. Thus, there is no way he could have known mchlle71 was not scum since he had not had the chance to investigate her, why on earth would he blow his cover before nightfall for that texcat? So what do you think would have happened if Hal had said Yesterday that he was a detective and that lauriern was scum? We would have lynched lauriern. Not a mislynch. MicheleHunter's role would not have been exposed and she would likely have not been NK'd. Hal could still have investigated endhoot and we would still be killing him Today. It seems to me, especially with this many players, we should be forcing scum to shoot into the dark and not be giving them juicy targets. What do you think would have happened if blah blah blah, this feels like a big ole story. Hal claims D2, no one believes him, he gets lynched, we lose a valuable detective. Or maybe we would have lynched laurie, and lianne might still be here, and michelev2 might still michelev1...hey lookie there, I can tell stories too! As far as I know, I don't have a time machine, and you likely don't either, but I still can't see any reason Hal would claim so early to save someone he didn't know anything about, especially considering that SCUM (lianne) almost got lynched anyway. I will stick with my reasoning that I can't fathom the woulda coulda's, I'm basing my judgement on things that actually happened. Vote texcat come join the fun!
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Post by starrirain on Jun 5, 2012 17:43:25 GMT -5
Meeko, you seem to be more worried about your own defense than where your vote is. Any comment on the case on LadyRogue? Any further comment about why your vote is on me, other than I said "you", meaning SilverJan and Mahaloth? Almost forgot this lil tid bit, where were your comments on the case on LadyRogue anyhow? I never saw anything from you in D4 against anyone but Meeko Sorry, I posted this in the wrong Day first, oopsie
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Post by guiri on Jun 5, 2012 17:55:48 GMT -5
I'm with you starrirain, let's party! Vote TexCatFor reference, the non PFK version.
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