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Post by Mahaloth on Jun 6, 2012 9:55:27 GMT -5
Ya' know what? I kind of am changing my mind. Let me re-arrange my suspicion list.
1. Pleo
2. Meeko
3. Archangel
Meeko, kudos to you if you have us tricked into giving you another Day, but remember....I am on to you still.
unvote Meeko
Vote Pleonast
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Post by Archangel on Jun 6, 2012 9:55:54 GMT -5
Is the only thing confirming Hal as Detective the fact that he gave us two scum? Someone please remind me... Yes. Those of us who believe him think that is an unlikely ploy for scum and those of us who don't think it could be a scum ploy. So he is "confirmed" (considered town by many) rather than confirmed (actually confirmed by a combination of the death reveals and rules, like Silverjan and Mahaloth are).
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Post by Archangel on Jun 6, 2012 9:59:02 GMT -5
Vote ArchangelThis is mainly because of her comments on the game being broken supposedly by Idle confirming the Masons and then forgetting that Lianne was killed at Night. I think that as scum she could quite easily have forgotten that because scum did not kill her, guiri killed her. Right now her vote is on a claimed detective, Pleo, who claimed on N0 and who has claimed early in the last couple of games I have played with him and has been truthful up to now. I know he could be lying this time but I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. I've already explained my Lianne comment and explained my case on Pleo. If you don't buy it, so be it. But please explain why you're suspicious because of my comment that I thought the game was broken. You've played with me many times, I called a game on LPP when I wasn't the moderator (because I'm a board administrator) for something less than mod-confirming the masons, and I called my own magnum opus when I accidentally mod-confirmed the masons.
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Post by Archangel on Jun 6, 2012 10:04:25 GMT -5
Mahaloth, Did you not think my ultimatum asking Pleonast to detect me tonight had any weight to it? If he agrees to investigate me, I'll unvote him. Tomorrow based on his results, we will know if he is who he says he is. There is a chance that I won't make it much long beyond that, but again, I'm near death now as it is. At least we get information on Pleonast in this way, and we could get you and others off possible multiple wrong tracks, looking at fellow town, instead of scum. Meeko, once again I have to remind you if Pleo is scum HE ALREADY KNOWS YOU'RE TOWN. An investigation of you, unless he's scum, and he claims you're scum, PROVES NOTHING. The only thing I'm usually any damn good at as town is sensing a frustrated townie who's getting heat, but if you keep ignoring this fact I'm not going to be able to ignore your ignoring it anymore.
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Post by Pleonast on Jun 6, 2012 10:41:23 GMT -5
I suppose the both of you are just going to ignore my suggestion to try and build productive cases outside of each other. Perhaps you missed the first case I made ToDay. Vote TexCatFor reference, the non PFK version. Thank you, this case actually makes some sense. The biggest one being Pleo's detective claim. I can see Pleo's point about not wasting an investigation on someone he knows is town, however he has said he thinks Meeko is scum. Later on he says that Meeko has stated enough times what he is and he doesn't want to waste the investigation. You've completely misunderstood me. I'm not going to investigate someone I have a good feel for. If I think they're town (like Hal, or anyone they've investigated as town) I'd simply be confirming something I already was fairly confident of. If I think they're scum (like Meeko) I'd also simply be confirming something I already was fairly certain of. Instead, I want to maximize the about of information I gain. I have no clue about a lot of players, players who've contributed little to the game, so there's little to even form an opinion on. That's who I investigate. You're losing me here. If I were scum pretending to be a Detective, I'd already know everyone's team and could fake-investigate Meeko easily. If I were falsely claiming Detective and couldn't investigate Meeko, it'd be because I was a Doctor or Mason. I believe he said something about claiming a power giving more wine to scum than to town. My keyboard is drenched in wine reading Pleonast's posts. The wine I'm serving town is the same wine that Hal is serving. A Detective in this game can't do anything to prove their team other than report their results. NETA what I mean about Pleo's investigation list is not that that they all flipped town but that they all flipped town AND had little to no involvement in the major conflicts of the game. So what is your plan for dealing with the players not participating? Are you going to lynch them all? Are you going to give them a pass? Flip a coin for each one? I'm actually doing something about them. Leaving a breadcrumb potentially reveals two things to scum that they didn't know already. 1) That I'm a Detective and not anything else. 2) That I investigated a particular player. Can you see why I wouldn't want to do that, especially when the whole point of my gambit was to make scum guess which power role I am?
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Post by supermel on Jun 6, 2012 10:45:21 GMT -5
I wish more people would post, we are well into day 5 and a lot of people have no chimed in at all. I don't know what to think about the train wreck between meeko and pleo- and would make my vote easier if some other people gave us some posts..
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Post by septimus on Jun 6, 2012 11:36:31 GMT -5
Can you see why I wouldn't want to do that, especially when the whole point of my gambit was to make scum guess which power role I am? Two flaws: (1) The idea is to place a crumb so subtle that it won't be an obvious crumb until you flip Detective. (2) What is the benefit of "making scum guess" what power you are? The only one I can make sense of this is if you think they might avoid NK'ing you since you might only be a Mason. But Scum have been Killing players who might only be Vanilla. You might be Town. My request to let you live but remove Doctor's Protection is a form of WIFOM with Scum. If they NK you, they confirm your Reveals and ensure we do not waste a misLynch on you. If they let you live, we get more useful Reveals if/when we do misLynch you. BTW, if/when Pleo does flip Scum, I won't consider Meeko 100% confrimed Town. It's possible these two are competing for Best two-Scum play-acting of 2012.
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Post by Pleonast on Jun 6, 2012 11:48:26 GMT -5
Can you see why I wouldn't want to do that, especially when the whole point of my gambit was to make scum guess which power role I am? Two flaws: (1) The idea is to place a crumb so subtle that it won't be an obvious crumb until you flip Detective. I don't think such a crumb is possible. You're answering your own question. And I've answered it multiple times, both early in the game, and earlier ToDay.
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Post by wombat99 on Jun 6, 2012 12:49:48 GMT -5
Jmj697mn was NK'd. Is this just scum trying to reduce town's numbers by picking someone unlikely to be protected, and a low-information Townie as well? Is there anything else to be gleaned here?
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Jun 6, 2012 13:36:42 GMT -5
Pleonast- want to reveal if you actually have a power, as you suggested on Night 0. Meanwhile, I have no clue who to vote for, so I am voting for my favorite number, 32... Vote JustbeingGingerSeriously on day 5 you have no other suspicions then to just give a random vote on a number. Maybe you figure it is a safe vote since I am not available to play that much. I am still out of town and can not post via my phone. I am using my fiancee's iPad. Catching up on day 4 and now 5... It felt like a great idea to me. Not for attacking you personally, Ginger, but for putting pressure on anyone who hasn't been put on the radar. I do not believe that there is a safe vote. As far as my investigation, there is no investigation to report at this time. Or ever. Because I claimed Detective to draw the scum kill.
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Post by supermel on Jun 6, 2012 13:39:41 GMT -5
Seriously on day 5 you have no other suspicions then to just give a random vote on a number. Maybe you figure it is a safe vote since I am not available to play that much. I am still out of town and can not post via my phone. I am using my fiancee's iPad. Catching up on day 4 and now 5... It felt like a great idea to me. Not for attacking you personally, Ginger, but for putting pressure on anyone who hasn't been put on the radar. I do not believe that there is a safe vote. As far as my investigation, there is no investigation to report at this time. Or ever. Because I claimed Detective to draw the scum kill. ?? I don't understand. You aren't actually a detective?
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jun 6, 2012 14:08:34 GMT -5
Mahaloth, Did you not think my ultimatum asking Pleonast to detect me tonight had any weight to it? If he agrees to investigate me, I'll unvote him. Tomorrow based on his results, we will know if he is who he says he is. There is a chance that I won't make it much long beyond that, but again, I'm near death now as it is. At least we get information on Pleonast in this way, and we could get you and others off possible multiple wrong tracks, looking at fellow town, instead of scum. Meeko, maybe my memory is bad, but have you not posted considerable skepticism over Pleonast's Detective claim? I think it funny that you seek confirmation from a Detective you doubt. If you survive the Day and Night and Tomorrow Pleonast claims you returned Town then suddenly Pleonast is OK in your book? That is the entire reason I am asking Pleonast to investigate me. I'm not sure he can do it. If he can, then I reevaluate that then. Pleonast more or less painted himself into this corner, and I'm simply asking him to put his money where his mouth is. Hell yes this is a gambit. Pleonast is the one to talk about risks, well, I think I've found one I'm willing to take, regardless of outcome.
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Post by AmyKay on Jun 6, 2012 14:19:07 GMT -5
As far as my investigation, there is no investigation to report at this time. Or ever. Because I claimed Detective to draw the scum kill. snipped. "to draw the scum kill" .... Colby, did you want to die last Night? Or you were trying to protect some of the others (like the Masons) by hoping Scum would pick you instead? Or you're just vanilla so Scum trying to kill you would be better than them trying to guess whether another Townie was vanilla or Power? Something's weird here, at least to me. Because of your soft-claim, you still might have drawn an attempted kill (if the Scum get 3 as others have suggested), but your soft-claim might have led a Doctor to protect you (as there were only two deaths last Night). If that was the case, why would you admit what you did now? Why not let it go on another night for Scum to potentially kill you again, therefore not getting someone else?
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Post by texcat on Jun 6, 2012 14:32:15 GMT -5
That is the entire reason I am asking Pleonast to investigate me. I'm not sure he can do it. If he can, then I reevaluate that then. Pleonast more or less painted himself into this corner, and I'm simply asking him to put his money where his mouth is. Hell yes this is a gambit. Pleonast is the one to talk about risks, well, I think I've found one I'm willing to take, regardless of outcome. Uh what? ? If Pleo is scum or lying town(like Colby), he has already faked 3 investigations. Why couldn't he fake one more? And what kind of risk is it for you? The only risk for you is if you are scum and Pleo is truthful town. Is that what you're claiming?
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Post by wombat99 on Jun 6, 2012 14:52:48 GMT -5
That is the entire reason I am asking Pleonast to investigate me. I'm not sure he can do it. If he can, then I reevaluate that then. Pleonast more or less painted himself into this corner, and I'm simply asking him to put his money where his mouth is. Hell yes this is a gambit. Pleonast is the one to talk about risks, well, I think I've found one I'm willing to take, regardless of outcome. Uh what? ? If Pleo is scum or lying town(like Colby), he has already faked 3 investigations. Why couldn't he fake one more? And what kind of risk is it for you? The only risk for you is if you are scum and Pleo is truthful town. Is that what you're claiming? That's what it sounds like to me. Meeko, I was leaning town on you until this and I was really trying to ignore this debate for the moment because it is very distracting. But here goes. Archangel has already posted about how Pleonast's investigation results on you are meaningless. Except if you are willing to sacrifice yourself and hurt your team in order to be right, and I think you are at that point. You are scum, you know Pleonast is Town so you know there is a *possibility* he is a detective, and you are so fixated on his detective claim that you are willing to force Pleonast to out you as scum. You want Pleonast to investigate you and declare you Town, so you can say "AHA! No I'm not, I'm scum, Pleonast is not a detective after all." Ok, you got Pleo but you're going to be lynched. And Pleo is still Town and in the game. The only other explanation in my mind is that you are both scum and the whole thing is a very scripted, contrived, ruse, for what purpose I have no idea, and I don't buy that.
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Post by cassipietz on Jun 6, 2012 15:07:35 GMT -5
After an hour I am all caught up...I wish I had known this game would go on for so long when I signed up...I keep forgetting about it until I go to my favorites list and see it there LOL Here is my take on things...I believe Meeko-his arguments make sense to me and although he may be loud I don't think he is scum. My suspicions on Pleonast had subsided until this detective claim and all these town investigations, while I get the logic behind the claims-figure out what side the quiet people are on-I don't get the logic behind claiming that you "know" someone is scum and therefore are not investigating them...Hal is a detective but doesn't suspect Meeko therefore an investigation of Meeko would be helpful as we have two claiming detectives with differing opinions of the person in question. I tend to side with Hal over Pleo because Hal has investigated confirmed scum which makes me believe him over Pleo. I have a gut feeling and I am going with it... vote Pleonast for the reasons stated above-while I understand that it is good to know who is town...it is also good to know who is really the role they say they are-having some scummy results from investigations helps prove the claimed role in my mind. Why not investigate some of the people that others were throwing suspicions out about? That seems like it would be helpful. If we get the names of scum to vote for then we can quit mislynching people which sounds like a grand ol plan to me. Sorry I can't spend some more time explaining but my little one is up from nap so back to mom duty!
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Post by Archangel on Jun 6, 2012 15:16:53 GMT -5
Okay, this is officially the second strangest game I've ever played in.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jun 6, 2012 15:48:31 GMT -5
Pleonast - 5 votes (Meeko, richardbeckman, Archangel, Mahaloth, cassiepietz) Meeko - 3 votes (patricia, Pleonast, annetastic) Texcat - 3 votes (stairrirain, guiri, Septimus) JustbeingGinger - 1 vote (Colby11) CatInASuit - 1 vote (oldred) patricia - 1 vote (LadyRogue) Archangel - 1 vote (SilverJan)
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Post by Pleonast on Jun 6, 2012 15:50:57 GMT -5
while I understand that it is good to know who is town...it is also good to know who is really the role they say they are-having some scummy results from investigations helps prove the claimed role in my mind. Why not investigate some of the people that others were throwing suspicions out about? That seems like it would be helpful. If we get the names of scum to vote for then we can quit mislynching people which sounds like a grand ol plan to me. I'll ask you the same questions I asked Archangel (and still unanswered by them): What is your plan for dealing with the players not participating? Are you going to lynch them all? Are you going to give them a pass? Flip a coin for each one? I'm actually doing something about them.
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Post by Archangel on Jun 6, 2012 16:20:26 GMT -5
while I understand that it is good to know who is town...it is also good to know who is really the role they say they are-having some scummy results from investigations helps prove the claimed role in my mind. Why not investigate some of the people that others were throwing suspicions out about? That seems like it would be helpful. If we get the names of scum to vote for then we can quit mislynching people which sounds like a grand ol plan to me. I'll ask you the same questions I asked Archangel (and still unanswered by them): What is your plan for dealing with the players not participating? Are you going to lynch them all? Are you going to give them a pass? Flip a coin for each one? I'm actually doing something about them. This is your strongest argument. There are an unusually high number of inactives in this game and knowing that there are other detectives, this makes sense as a strategy. And Colby "admitting" he's not a detective makes me less sure you're lying. Because it seems we had more than 2 detectives at the start. I will probably unvote you when I get home (can't do the tags here) but this is incredibly frustrating. I still don't think Meeko is scum (insistence on illogic is more often a town tell than a scum tell) and there's nothing going on except Pleonast/Meeko.
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Post by Archangel on Jun 6, 2012 16:26:46 GMT -5
And please stop calling me them. I'm a she. As for unanswering your question, the way you turned that around on me is a classic scum tactic, which is why I'm not entirely sure I'm going to unvote you. But to answer your question, Chris is subbing in for the inactives. It's making it confusing but they're being taken care of so I prefer to deal with people leaving evidence.
As an experienced player, though, why did you choose to investigate lurking newbies (who are more likely to just be dropouts) than lurking experienced players (who would know lurking is a decent scum strategy under the circumstances)? It's people like Inner Stickler, CIAS, Suburban Plankton, Paranoia, Gnarly Charlie and Total Ulla who are bothering me more.
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Jun 6, 2012 17:00:03 GMT -5
As far as my investigation, there is no investigation to report at this time. Or ever. Because I claimed Detective to draw the scum kill. snipped. "to draw the scum kill" .... Colby, did you want to die last Night? Or you were trying to protect some of the others (like the Masons) by hoping Scum would pick you instead? Or you're just vanilla so Scum trying to kill you would be better than them trying to guess whether another Townie was vanilla or Power? Something's weird here, at least to me. Because of your soft-claim, you still might have drawn an attempted kill (if the Scum get 3 as others have suggested), but your soft-claim might have led a Doctor to protect you (as there were only two deaths last Night). If that was the case, why would you admit what you did now? Why not let it go on another night for Scum to potentially kill you again, therefore not getting someone else? I was trying to draw the scum kill because I did not want a power role to potentially attack. Right now detectives are the most important part of this game, along with the confirmed players. So whatever I do, I am a target regardless now. I claimed the bluff so that in the coming Night phase, a doctor wouldn't try to protect me, thinking that I was a detective when I am not. I figured that the ploy wasn't going to work if I said that I investigated MHaye, so I came clean
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Jun 6, 2012 17:03:18 GMT -5
I'll ask you the same questions I asked Archangel (and still unanswered by them): What is your plan for dealing with the players not participating? Are you going to lynch them all? Are you going to give them a pass? Flip a coin for each one? I'm actually doing something about them. This is your strongest argument. There are an unusually high number of inactives in this game and knowing that there are other detectives, this makes sense as a strategy. And Colby "admitting" he's not a detective makes me less sure you're lying. Because it seems we had more than 2 detectives at the start. I will probably unvote you when I get home (can't do the tags here) but this is incredibly frustrating. I still don't think Meeko is scum (insistence on illogic is more often a town tell than a scum tell) and there's nothing going on except Pleonast/Meeko. I will also state that we did have a detective killed on Night 1
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Post by Archangel on Jun 6, 2012 17:58:43 GMT -5
This is your strongest argument. There are an unusually high number of inactives in this game and knowing that there are other detectives, this makes sense as a strategy. And Colby "admitting" he's not a detective makes me less sure you're lying. Because it seems we had more than 2 detectives at the start. I will probably unvote you when I get home (can't do the tags here) but this is incredibly frustrating. I still don't think Meeko is scum (insistence on illogic is more often a town tell than a scum tell) and there's nothing going on except Pleonast/Meeko. I will also state that we did have a detective killed on Night 1 Yes. I'm counting Francesca and Hal as the 2 detectives I believe exist. (Am I missing another detective that died? If so, please tell me, that's the sort of thing I'm likely to miss with the memory issues.) If we had 3 other detectives that we know of besides Pleonast that makes me less likely to believe Pleo again.
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Post by michelehunter on Jun 6, 2012 19:41:18 GMT -5
I'm getting more and more lost every day, I'm going back to my original thoughts
Vote Pleo
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jun 6, 2012 19:48:58 GMT -5
That is the entire reason I am asking Pleonast to investigate me. I'm not sure he can do it. If he can, then I reevaluate that then. Pleonast more or less painted himself into this corner, and I'm simply asking him to put his money where his mouth is. Hell yes this is a gambit. Pleonast is the one to talk about risks, well, I think I've found one I'm willing to take, regardless of outcome. Uh what? ? If Pleo is scum or lying town(like Colby), he has already faked 3 investigations. Why couldn't he fake one more? And what kind of risk is it for you? The only risk for you is if you are scum and Pleo is truthful town. Is that what you're claiming? Pleonast could lie and tell you that I am scum. I would argue that I am not, but then again, everyone is innocent in prison, including the innocent, so there would be no dice there for me to argue. Thus, the risk for me is that I could be mislynched if Pleonast lies and states that I am scum. That choice is all on him, and I'm willing to take the fall, I've already claimed vanilla town, you guys are content to mislynch me as it is, as yes this game is kinda getting to me. Multiple birds, one stone. I doubt that a town Pleonast could vote for a town Meeko. I respect his play at least that much. Lord help us if TOWN WOULDN'T DO THAT enters our lexicon. Note that Pleonast is STILL hedging on investigating me. Kinda like someone pleading the fifth....more is said by their inaction than not.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jun 6, 2012 20:14:24 GMT -5
That's what it sounds like to me. Meeko, I was leaning town on you until this and I was really trying to ignore this debate for the moment because it is very distracting. But here goes.
Archangel has already posted about how Pleonast's investigation results on you are meaningless. Except if you are willing to sacrifice yourself and hurt your team in order to be right, and I think you are at that point. You are scum, you know Pleonast is Town so you know there is a *possibility* he is a detective, and you are so fixated on his detective claim that you are willing to force Pleonast to out you as scum.
I think I was (and still am) willing to sacrifice my self around the time. I asked Pleonast to investigate me. It's kind of hard to consider that anything but a sacrifice frankly. I mean I think it's clear that Pleonast and I are not happy with each other this game.
My feelings about how long I want to stay in this game are irrelevant, moot, and unfair for multiple reasons, the least of them being that I am vanilla, it has been stated that it's my job to die. (I personally disagree in part on this, but that's another conversation) I have no power to possibly protect myself, nor can I control the game that much even if I did. if I could, I wouldn't care about people voting me, I would masonry it out with my fellow masons, I would self protect if I were a doctor.
If you want to drink the wine of "a scum Meeko would do this because of x y z" then you are drinking alone.
I have virtually no recourse if Pleonast investigates me and lies to town stating I am scum. I have no recourse there, but the rest of town would.
You want Pleonast to investigate you and declare you Town, so you can say "AHA! No I'm not, I'm scum, Pleonast is not a detective after all." Ok, you got Pleo but you're going to be lynched. And Pleo is still Town and in the game.
Except that I know I am town.
But ok, say this happens. Pleonast would get doctors protecting him. That's so unlike what he has hijacked in the present. Doctors protect Pleonast, scum loses one. Tell me how this is a good scum play again?
Also I'm not sure that scum would give up a free pass at being town.
And how exactly did I "get" Pleonast ?
The only other explanation in my mind is that you are both scum and the whole thing is a very scripted, contrived, ruse, for what purpose I have no idea, and I don't buy that.
if we were both were scum, I'd have commentary from Pleonast that he is not giving the main thread. This would make for a less chatty Meeko and a less incendiary game.
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Post by texcat on Jun 6, 2012 20:14:44 GMT -5
Uh what? ? If Pleo is scum or lying town(like Colby), he has already faked 3 investigations. Why couldn't he fake one more? And what kind of risk is it for you? The only risk for you is if you are scum and Pleo is truthful town. Is that what you're claiming? Pleonast could lie and tell you that I am scum. I would argue that I am not, but then again, everyone is innocent in prison, including the innocent, so there would be no dice there for me to argue. Thus, the risk for me is that I could be mislynched if Pleonast lies and states that I am scum. That choice is all on him, and I'm willing to take the fall, I've already claimed vanilla town, you guys are content to mislynch me as it is, as yes this game is kinda getting to me. Multiple birds, one stone. I doubt that a town Pleonast could vote for a town Meeko. I respect his play at least that much. Lord help us if TOWN WOULDN'T DO THAT enters our lexicon. Note that Pleonast is STILL hedging on investigating me. Kinda like someone pleading the fifth....more is said by their inaction than not. I miss Special Ed. Pleo could lie about your alignment, but why would he? If he is Town, it doesn't make sense. If he is Scum, he'd be making a 1 for 1 trade and that doesn't make much sense. I'm sorry, but if you are Town, there is little to no risk. I'm not sure that I appreciate the martyr-like tone that you seem to be adopting. And I certainly fail to see how Pleo declaring that you are town clears either you or Pleo. Pleo declaring you scum, means that you are going to be lynched, but unless you really are scum it doesn't make sense to me that he would do that.
Do we have anyone left who could estimate the number of scum that we have, given 2 or 3 detectives? I note that Archangel is sceptical about there being 4 detectives and I agree. We know we started with 1 PFK, 2 crazy townies (1 shot vig), 2 doctors, and 2 (I'm assuming Hal, but not Pleo.) detectives. How many scum would be a balance for that? And how many scum would be a balance for 3 detectives and 3 doctors? And how about 4? And I'm guessing that there are an equal number of doctors as detectives. No reason for it, just guessing.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jun 6, 2012 20:38:54 GMT -5
I miss Special Ed. Pleo could lie about your alignment, but why would he? If he is Town, it doesn't make sense. If he is Scum, he'd be making a 1 for 1 trade and that doesn't make much sense. I'm sorry, but if you are Town, there is little to no risk. I'm not sure that I appreciate the martyr-like tone that you seem to be adopting. And I certainly fail to see how Pleo declaring that you are town clears either you or Pleo. Pleo declaring you scum, means that you are going to be lynched, but unless you really are scum it doesn't make sense to me that he would do that. If you fail to see that how Pleonast declaring me as town clears me, then you must think that Pleonast is lying. If you think he is lying, that would be a reason to vote him.
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Post by texcat on Jun 6, 2012 21:06:57 GMT -5
I miss Special Ed. Pleo could lie about your alignment, but why would he? If he is Town, it doesn't make sense. If he is Scum, he'd be making a 1 for 1 trade and that doesn't make much sense. I'm sorry, but if you are Town, there is little to no risk. I'm not sure that I appreciate the martyr-like tone that you seem to be adopting. And I certainly fail to see how Pleo declaring that you are town clears either you or Pleo. Pleo declaring you scum, means that you are going to be lynched, but unless you really are scum it doesn't make sense to me that he would do that. If you fail to see that how Pleonast declaring me as town clears me, then you must think that Pleonast is lying. If you think he is lying, that would be a reason to vote him. I REALLY miss Special Ed. Why are you begging Pleo to investigate you instead of Hal? I trust Hal as town; and if he declared you as town it might mean something as far as your alignment is concerned. If Pleo declared you as town, it might or might not mean anything, depending on Pleo's alignment. AND it would mean nothing whatsoever about Pleo's alignment. I'm totally not getting your insistence that Pleo investigate you.
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