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Post by Suburban Plankton on Oct 2, 2012 13:54:35 GMT -5
Ah, but you did add in the ever important caveat (which I thought in my head but neglected to put down in print): "Assuming we can trust Red's information" I don't see any obvious reason for Red to be faking this, but at the same time given that it's almost certain that there is recruitment in this game, it would probably be pretty tough for anyone to disprove any of Red's numbers.
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Post by BillMc on Oct 2, 2012 14:23:10 GMT -5
Not sure whether Pleo was 3rd and was recruited, or was town and trying to use 3rd as a cover
So Red's information is: The game had 7 Town at the end of Day 1 The game had 5 Scum at the end of Day 2
If Pleo was town at this point, then we now have 5 living town. If Pleo was recruited to town after this point, then we now have 6 living town.
That's a lot of 3rds out there.
As for Ginger "Judge, Jury, and Executioner" - wouldn't that be Judge Dredd?
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 2, 2012 14:27:51 GMT -5
That's my suspicion, Bill.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 2, 2012 14:31:15 GMT -5
About Dredd, I mean.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 2, 2012 14:32:14 GMT -5
I don't recall every playing with a Judge Dredd. Anyone have a link to that game?
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Oct 2, 2012 14:36:00 GMT -5
I don't recall every playing with a Judge Dredd. Anyone have a link to that game? Is it known that all of the roles in this game are ones which have been previously used? Was there an Anti-Lurker in a previous game?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 2, 2012 14:39:18 GMT -5
Nope, but I see no reason not to read whatever information might be available.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 2, 2012 14:44:26 GMT -5
3) Pizza is apparently not as crazy as he looks. Nor as modest. But the whole Ginger thing was crazy.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 2, 2012 14:59:08 GMT -5
And I'm delighted that Stickler's pointless vote for guiri forced guiri to show his cards to somebody with a kill to spare. Delighted. You fucking lynch the town detective and you're pissed at me? Sit on your rude attitude and spin.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 2, 2012 15:04:06 GMT -5
A lot of us are guilty of lynching the town detective, Inner, but it was your vote on guiri that shifted at least me over to Pleo.
And we lost them both.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 2, 2012 15:05:12 GMT -5
I didn't realize I'm responsible for everyone else's votes. If I'm to be held accountable, then I think I should get the final say in who you vote for then.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 2, 2012 15:17:37 GMT -5
And I see no reason to assume recruitment.
Pleo was the town cop and because he loves to claim D1 claimed Third Party to keep scum off his back but town wouldn't leave him be.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 2, 2012 15:18:21 GMT -5
Guiri saddled himself with 8 votes. I don't grok how what went down falls on Inner's shoulders alone. Sounds like we have a few cases of Lyncher's Remorse at best and opportunistic smudging at worst.
Similar argument to what I said yesterday about Pizza's daisy-chain logic to demand my death if Ginger ends up scum. Maybe Inner voted for Guiri because he thought Guiri was suspicious and that's all there is to it.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Oct 2, 2012 15:18:48 GMT -5
I didn't realize I'm responsible for everyone else's votes. If I'm to be held accountable, then I think I should get the final say in who you vote for then. Nope, Red Skeezix already tried that
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 2, 2012 15:25:59 GMT -5
Sounds like we have a few cases of Lyncher's Remorse at best and opportunistic smudging at worst. If Red's right, though, there could be only a few scum on that bandwagon anyway.
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Post by KidVermicious on Oct 2, 2012 15:31:15 GMT -5
I put this is the Day Two thread by mistake, not that it matters now: Just over 2 hours left in the Day and I'm the lynch leader. I bid 8 votes for the mercenary, just like yesterDay, and won. And I have one vote, from Lightfoot, so unless people want to see me lynched, we need at least 10 votes on someone else. Sorry to have to claim, I was holding out hoping there would be some vote movement. KidV, the PM I received this morning with the list of powers also included the message I posted earlier about being cursed. It was vague on whether the two were related, did you get a message about being cursed when you won the merc? Nossir, I didn't get any message about stubbing my toe or whacking my elbow or being cursed. What a BS end of day.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 2, 2012 15:32:37 GMT -5
I'm saying that your vote on guiri prompted me to move my vote to Pleo, believing he was third party, because none of my reads on anyone else were sufficiently "Scummy" for me to justify putting a vote out there -- which is not to say I don't think anyone is Scum, just that I didn't have any other viable candidates -- and I thought keeping the doc alive was preferable.
Only I am responsible for my vote, and to say that I am thinking otherwise is disingenious. But the actions of other people in the game have an influence on that vote, and the circumstances likewise.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 2, 2012 15:35:34 GMT -5
I just went back and looked at EOD counts in the final vote count thread.
Oh Moddly mod of Moddiness -- can you please clarify something:
Do the vote counts only reflect the winning bid on the Lynch candidate if said candidate is the Lynch leader?
Because right now, neither KidV's nor guiri's votes reflect their claimed bid.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 2, 2012 15:36:36 GMT -5
I'm saying that your vote on guiri prompted me to move my vote to Pleo, believing he was third party, because none of my reads on anyone else were sufficiently "Scummy" for me to justify putting a vote out there -- which is not to say I don't think anyone is Scum, just that I didn't have any other viable candidates -- and I thought keeping the doc alive was preferable. Only I am responsible for my vote, and to say that I am thinking otherwise is disingenious. But the actions of other people in the game have an influence on that vote, and the circumstances likewise. So Inner's fault is that he couldn't read your mind as to how you would reconcile a stack of variables that have nothing to do with him?
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 2, 2012 15:40:40 GMT -5
No. I wouldn't blame anybody for not being able to read my mind. I'm just saying that absolving one's self of all responsibility for a lynch one is involved in is patently ridiculous. I assume my behavior is a factor in other people's votes (particularly if, as has not happened yet this game, they are voting for me) and I know other people's behavior is a factor in mine. Which is sort of the point of the game.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 2, 2012 15:45:06 GMT -5
And I'm delighted that Stickler's pointless vote for guiri forced guiri to show his cards to somebody with a kill to spare. Delighted. You fucking lynch the town detective and you're pissed at me? Sit on your rude attitude and spin. Two responses, one entirely out of game and listed first for emphasis: 1. For what it's worth - and here I'm speaking, again, entirely out of game, with no strategic implications of any kind - your tone and approach in this game have been really unpleasant. I don't think I've read a single post of yours that hasn't been dripping with contempt and anger for everyone and everything that isn't you (or Pleo, I guess). I've played with you many times and moderated lots of games in which you've played, and I can't remember you taking this stance ever before. I doubt you respect my opinion any more than anyone else's, but on the off chance that you don't realize how nasty you're being, I thought I'd put it out there. 2. In game: there is nothing "rude" about my attitude. In game, I strongly dislike the play you made at Day's end, and view it as suspicious. If you're Town or sympathetic to Town, you made a very large mistake and hurt your side. I may have, as you say, lynched (well, helped to lynched, but whatever) a Town Investigator - albeit one that most likely lied either by omission or outright - but you voted to lynch (and nearly singlehandedly did lynch) a Town Doctor, contributed to the outing of his role, and did without evidence that he was Scummy and at the 11th hour. If there is some reason that you think you should be immune to criticism and investigation on this point, let us know - but until then you're responsible for the actions you take.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 2, 2012 15:46:12 GMT -5
What lynch was I involved in? Pleo was lynched. I haven't once voted for him. Guiri was daykilled. I am not a daykiller. I was not involved in the lynch and if people used my votes as justification for lynching the town cop, that's hardly my fault. I've worked damn hard this game trying to keep you hounds from taking pleo down and when you manage to do it anyway, people still get upset at me.
This game is rapidly losing its flavor.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 2, 2012 15:48:35 GMT -5
Guiri saddled himself with 8 votes. I don't grok how what went down falls on Inner's shoulders alone. The only thing that falls on Inner's shoulders is his vote. "Perhaps he voted for guiri because he found guiri suspicious" raises the question of why that suspicion only emerged when guiri became a lynchable possibility. The only reason that guiri was on a lynch wagon at all is his mercenary bid. It seems that some folks find that a de facto cause for suspicion, or want to punish it as bad play... but I don't agree with either of those things. I view it as a completely null tell.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 2, 2012 15:49:10 GMT -5
Guiri had plenty of 11th hour actions of his own that no one seems to be irritated at him for. If my great crime is being skeptical of the motivations of people who wait until the very last minute to share critical info then convict me, yer honor, I'm not going to change that habit.
As for tone, I give what I get. Be nice to me and I'll be nice to you.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 2, 2012 15:50:29 GMT -5
The only reason that guiri was on a lynch wagon at all is his mercenary bid. It seems that some folks find that a de facto cause for suspicion, or want to punish it as bad play... but I don't agree with either of those things. I view it as a completely null tell. I do tend to view people winning the merc bid as suspicious. But tell me, then, if it's such a null tell, why is there a huge rush to save the claimant at the expense of everyone else on the lynch list?
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 2, 2012 15:51:50 GMT -5
Actually, the reason I'm asking pleo about the vote counts is that I'm not 100% convinced guiri was offed by a Day killer.
I think it's the most likely of the options, but if he was -- as claimed -- the winner of the Merc maybe he tied Pleo for votes, too.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 2, 2012 15:55:37 GMT -5
8+1=9.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 2, 2012 15:58:11 GMT -5
So that rules that theory out, thank you.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 2, 2012 15:58:49 GMT -5
The only reason that guiri was on a lynch wagon at all is his mercenary bid. It seems that some folks find that a de facto cause for suspicion, or want to punish it as bad play... but I don't agree with either of those things. I view it as a completely null tell. I do tend to view people winning the merc bid as suspicious. But tell me, then, if it's such a null tell, why is there a huge rush to save the claimant at the expense of everyone else on the lynch list? It wasn't at the expense of everyone on the lynch list. It was at the expense of Pleonast, full stop. guiri, at that moment in time, was no better than a random lynch. There was no evidence of anything related to him. There was (before you voted) a single one-off vote on him. I would similarly have opposed almost any sudden, surprise, near-random lynch. Look, you satisfied yourself early that Pleo was above board. As it turns out, you may have been both wrong and right - he turns out to have been Town aligned, but it seems likely that he lied about some things and the things people saw problems with (most notably his win condition) are the very things about which he probably lied. If you choose to lie as Town, you must accept the risk that people will uncover your lies and pursue you because of them - and if we come to a place where outright lying carries no consequence at all, then we have a problem playing the game at all. Again, you believed Pleo early, but a lot of people did not believe him unreservedly, and with reasons no less valid than your reasons for trusting him. And because of the particular lie he chose, he was ostensibly not Town, which made him marginally safer as a lynch that guiri. In summary, Pleo: 1. Was (I thought) certainly non-Town; 2. Had a claim with holes and inconsistencies in it; 3. Had made a troubling reversal on his offer to self-confirm; 4. Showed no signs of being cooperative or helpful; and 5. Had a robust vote record associated with him. On the other hand, guiri: 1. Was a player in the game; and 2. Bid on the mercenary. I genuinely can't understand how you viewed guiri as the better lynch given these facts.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 2, 2012 15:59:47 GMT -5
And why do you view winning the merc vote as inherently suspicious? Would Town in general be inclined, do you think, to just let their enemies gain access to that tool without competing for it?
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