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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 27, 2013 7:48:53 GMT -5
Seems like a bit of a leap considering I was voting for Pollux and Plankton. Also, frankly, if Texcat and Plankton were both Christian and I was a devil, why would I give a fiddlers who got lynched as long as it wasn't me. "Tempted to look at" is awfully smudgy also, why not have a good look at it and then post something definite. You keep on repeating this and it keeps on being bullshit. I have never heard "gravedigger" as being associated with Satan in any way shape or form. Now, you might say it's a macabre role title for a Christian, and that's fair enough, but to push into actual association with the devil is just reaching. Why would a devil reveal night kills? I voted patricia almost immediately after Idle posted that according to his role PM all Christians had sin. Seemed like a no brainer. 1) "Tempted to"... so I did. Smudgy? And when you were in the lead for the lynch, Pollux was another leading candidate. Somehow he got lynched with less votes than two other people. Which means that either he was targeted so that the votes on him were somehow amplified, or somebody else's vote on him was worth more than one regular vote. Nobody has ever claimed responsibility for this. If it's a devil power of some sort, it must be for the benefit of Texcat (confirmed Christian by Ryjae), Plankton (confirmed Christian by Wombat), DizzyMrsLizzy (confirmed Christian by HockeyMonkey) or yourself. You're the only one who could have directly benefited from Pollux's lynch and who hasn't been cleared by anybody. I'm not saying this is the case - it could be a Christian or third-party using a vote-charging power, who got it disastrously wrong - but I'm not going to make that assumption. 2) No, it's not bullshit. I got a penalty once already for using outside links to cite examples of this. "Gravedigger" is a colloquialism for the devil. I grew up in a Christian family. They weren't the "hellfire and brimstone" kind but I picked things like this up occasionally. 3) I'm not convinced that you would or do have this role, but I see nothing particularly outlandish about it being in the hands of a devil. There's a certain bizarre symmetry to it (a Christian reveals roles during the day, a Devil does it at night). It would even make sense as a penalty for some other greater devil power - for example, if you reveal a person's role to the Christians, you get to reveal somebody else's cardinal sin? Something like that? I don't know. It's all speculation. I do know that I'm not prepared to dismiss you solely based on the role that you claim to have, and wouldn't dismiss you as a devil either if it were proven. 4) You also didn't take any part in the subsequent discussion between Idle and Bill where Idle was accused of lying. My contention all along has been that the devils most likely stayed out of that dispute. So to summarise: - On day one, you conveniently voted for Patricia just when her lynch was starting to look like an inevitability, and conveniently stayed out of the ruckus that ensued when Idle was accused of lying by Bill. Your role name is a colloquial name for THE Devil, which the mods conveniently don't know (despite the fact that Pleonast must've researched this stuff?) and you have a role that conveniently can't be proven. Finally, you're conveniently the only person who was on the lynch wagon when Pollux was targeted and conveniently lynched by some kind of vote-charging power that has conveniently remained a mystery ever since. I will freely admit that none of this, on its own, makes you a suspect, let alone a devil. Add all of it together, though, and that's a HECK of a lot of convenience there. A bit too much to swallow. And let me add one more thing: 5) I don't see you scum-hunting. If you'd commented on any of my other cases or proposed any alternative suspects or basically done anything other than defend yourself here, I would at least have considered unvoting you. You haven't done that. Heck, in the last two days, the only person you've really mentioned any kind of a solid suspicion on is BillMC, based on the Ryjae thing. And talking of which... Vote: BillMC. Not like I have anything to lose at the moment, so may as well put my money where my mouth is. Colby's claim to be a sinless Christian changes a lot of things. It gets rid of one half of the reasons I had for discounting Bill in the first place. And I haven't been impressed by his play since then. Anyway, going back to Scathach... one thing will get me to unvote you right now, and that's if Bill, Wombat, Texcat or Crys was to admit that they'd used a vote-charging power on themselves, and just got it wrong. Bill's already said he won't reveal anything more, and I doubt my voting him will change that. What about the other three?
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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 27, 2013 8:30:23 GMT -5
Okay I have the Randomized the player list to get an order for a Mass Claim. I'm also going to Unvote: EveryoneUntil we get through this or it gets closer to EOD. First up for a Claim is: ColbyHow do the players suggesting a Mass Claim want to do this? Do you want me to post the whole randomized list? Or do you want it one at a time like this? I think it might be better to give us some of the list so we don't have to wait for you to come back after every claim. Unless you are really on the game and are willing to keep checking in. If that is the case, then I guess name by name is fine.
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Post by scáthach on Feb 27, 2013 8:38:04 GMT -5
1) "Tempted to"... so I did. Smudgy? And when you were in the lead for the lynch, Pollux was another leading candidate. Somehow he got lynched with less votes than two other people. Which means that either he was targeted so that the votes on him were somehow amplified, or somebody else's vote on him was worth more than one regular vote. Nobody has ever claimed responsibility for this. If it's a devil power of some sort, it must be for the benefit of Texcat (confirmed Christian by Ryjae), Plankton (confirmed Christian by Wombat), DizzyMrsLizzy (confirmed Christian by HockeyMonkey) or yourself. You're the only one who could have directly benefited from Pollux's lynch and who hasn't been cleared by anybody. I'm not saying this is the case - it could be a Christian or third-party using a vote-charging power, who got it disastrously wrong - but I'm not going to make that assumption. You looked at it no further than saying you think Texcat and Suburban are town ergo I must somehow be the vote charger. Despite that I voted for both Pollux and Suburban, so I can't just have double votes or something. And if Texcat or Suburban were Christian then as a devil I would have no motivation to do that at all. And no one else I voted for in previous Days seems to have had an increase in votes counted. So no, I don't think you did "look into it", you just dropped it out there as a "Not Texcat or Suburban ergo Scathach" As for the gravedigger thing, it must be regional, because I have hand on heart never heard anything like it before (and I was raised Catholic fwiw) and a google search doesn't turn up any references. I'll accept that it's something you've heard of, but it certainly doesn't seem to be common. As for the scumhunting, yes, fair enough, I haven't done anything today and probably won't until I get home from work. I still think the case on Bill was a solid one though: 1. Refused to be investigated by ryjae 2. Changed his mind and accepted, but ryjae was blocked. 3. Didn't vote for patricia 4. Is unclaimed 5. Was voting for a soft confirmed by ryjae texcat.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Feb 27, 2013 8:38:03 GMT -5
Okay I'm going to be out most of the day so here's the list.
I might have a player or two who has claimed already, I didn't get a chance to go back and see who made full claims or not. So skip them if they claimed already.
Texcat SilverJan Suburban Wombat Gnarly Bill Chucara Ryjae KidVid Crys Guiri
I had as claiming: Holy Idle Ginger and the 3 Masons because we shared our claims with each other (and Hockey posted a sample Mason PM)
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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 27, 2013 8:40:02 GMT -5
Okay I'm going to be out most of the day so here's the list. I might have a player or two who has claimed already, I didn't get a chance to go back and see who made full claims or not. So skip them if they claimed already. Surprised I'm not on the list. I've name-claimed(and stated I'm Christian), but done nothing more. I'm willing to be on the list if you'd like me to be.
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Post by scáthach on Feb 27, 2013 8:42:14 GMT -5
Oh, I forgot to
vote BillMc
in the last post
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Post by texcat on Feb 27, 2013 9:26:46 GMT -5
And I think that Dizzy and MrV need to be on the list.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 27, 2013 9:28:30 GMT -5
1) "Tempted to"... so I did. Smudgy? And when you were in the lead for the lynch, Pollux was another leading candidate. Somehow he got lynched with less votes than two other people. Which means that either he was targeted so that the votes on him were somehow amplified, or somebody else's vote on him was worth more than one regular vote. Nobody has ever claimed responsibility for this. If it's a devil power of some sort, it must be for the benefit of Texcat (confirmed Christian by Ryjae), Plankton (confirmed Christian by Wombat), DizzyMrsLizzy (confirmed Christian by HockeyMonkey) or yourself. You're the only one who could have directly benefited from Pollux's lynch and who hasn't been cleared by anybody. I'm not saying this is the case - it could be a Christian or third-party using a vote-charging power, who got it disastrously wrong - but I'm not going to make that assumption. You looked at it no further than saying you think Texcat and Suburban are town ergo I must somehow be the vote charger. Despite that I voted for both Pollux and Suburban, so I can't just have double votes or something. I'm simply looking at cui bono. Nothing more than that. I have no knowledge of how a vote charging power may work in this game, whether it's used on the vote receiver or the votor, or even on a specific vote. If the power is devilish, and if it's used to save another devil from being lynched, which I admit is two big "ifs", but nonetheless... if that's the case, then you are by far the most likely devil of the lynch leaders on that day - the others being Plankton, who is very much in the same position as Visceral was on Day Two before HockeyMonkey had claimed mason ( Wombat's cleared somebody who I didn't think was a devil anyway); DizzyMrsLizzy (mason), and Texcat (cleared by Ryjae). The biggest sticking point for me here is that nobody's claimed any kind of town-sided vote-charging power. The most likely town vote-chargers to me are the players who were either in danger of being lynched, or who voted Pollux, or both. I can understand not wanting to admit to having done this initially, but why not claim later on that you made a mistake? Barring BillMC (who I'm also voting), are any of those people in danger of being lynched right now? I think not. That's why I'm asking for the vote-charger, if they're not a devil, to come forward. The alternative is that this was done by a devil, to save a devil. You make the most sense as the saved devil, hence my vote.
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Post by texcat on Feb 27, 2013 9:32:30 GMT -5
Colby, your only kill was Lightfoot? Or can you claim others?
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Post by texcat on Feb 27, 2013 9:42:13 GMT -5
I thought about editing out #2, but it seems obvious to everyone except Moley that I was the one who lynched Pollux. And it's getting boring watching him barking up trees.
I was pretty convinced that Suburban was non-Devil and I knew I was Christian and so Pollux got the rope. Sorry, Pollux.
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Post by texcat on Feb 27, 2013 9:50:34 GMT -5
Mahaloth, I see Gnarly on the list. Isn't that you?
If Ryjae weren't cleansing into the mason pool toNight, I'd be really tempted to lynch there toDay. Hockey posted "a sample Mason PM". Huh? I thought Hockey posted her Mason PM, not a "sample".
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 27, 2013 10:10:21 GMT -5
BTW I have claimed already and I am with Mahaloth, I am ready to vote off one of the "Masons". What's up with this sample PM, did Hockey get it from the Mod? It is not unknown for Scum to claim masons if there aren't any real masons in a game. All the "masons" in this game so far have been "cleared" when they were looking pretty scummy.
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 27, 2013 10:15:14 GMT -5
So far it doesn't look as if we have had a scum NK kill, I inadvertently killed Laurien (sorry but I told you I was Town) and Colby killed off LightFoot to prove pagans weren't Devils. Who did Paranoia look at, did anyone get a visit from him?
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Colby11
Administrator
Creator of Hell's Kitchen Mafia
Posts: 1,193
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
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Post by Colby11 on Feb 27, 2013 10:35:39 GMT -5
Colby, your only kill was Lightfoot? Or can you claim others? My only kill was Lightfoot. Night 2 (when I took over) I had sin from lynching SisC. I was also told that I did not kill Night 1 via the mod. Night 3- killed Lightfoot Night 4- Ryjae cleansed me, plus I had sin from lynching Storyteller
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Post by crys on Feb 27, 2013 10:41:21 GMT -5
BTW I have claimed already and I am with Mahaloth, I am ready to vote off one of the "Masons". What's up with this sample PM, did Hockey get it from the Mod? It is not unknown for Scum to claim masons if there aren't any real masons in a game. All the "masons" in this game so far have been "cleared" when they were looking pretty scummy. Im in agreement it is time to prove themselves and there is only one way to do that Sent from my DROID RAZR using proboards
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Post by crys on Feb 27, 2013 10:42:07 GMT -5
Neta i have claimed already
Sent from my DROID RAZR using proboards
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Post by crys on Feb 27, 2013 10:46:42 GMT -5
I find this as an odd question. Who would be better to pray for than someone who doesnt believe in god.
Maybe the recruitment happens after death......
Sent from my DROID RAZR using proboards
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Post by crys on Feb 27, 2013 10:47:20 GMT -5
I find this as an odd question. Who would be better to pray for than someone who doesnt believe in god. Maybe the recruitment happens after death...... Sent from my DROID RAZR using proboards Dammit rhis was directed at bill Sent from my DROID RAZR using proboards
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Post by BillMc on Feb 27, 2013 10:59:56 GMT -5
I thought about editing out #2, but it seems obvious to everyone except Moley that I was the one who lynched Pollux. And it's getting boring watching him barking up trees. I was pretty convinced that Suburban was non-Devil and I knew I was Christian and so Pollux got the rope. Sorry, Pollux. Are we surprised? lol #3 is interesting - very interesting given that no one else who has claimed has indicated being one of the tie-breaking votes
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 27, 2013 11:37:10 GMT -5
I thought about editing out #2, but it seems obvious to everyone except Moley that I was the one who lynched Pollux. And it's getting boring watching him barking up trees. I was pretty convinced that Suburban was non-Devil and I knew I was Christian and so Pollux got the rope. Sorry, Pollux. Are we surprised? lol #3 is interesting - very interesting given that no one else who has claimed has indicated being one of the tie-breaking votes I don't think it's all that surprising. Add my name to the list of folks who would like to see individual claims from all of our Masons. And I don't think they need to "wait their turn" either, since we already know all there is to know about them, right?
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Post by wombat99 on Feb 27, 2013 11:49:20 GMT -5
I believe Bill is Town due to RyJae's cleansing investigation, and I believe I was inadvertently responsible for the block on RyJae that prevented his sin cleansing. So if anyone is voting to lynch him because of the block, don't.
My powers include a block/protect action. I can protect a player, but if I do, they are prevented from using any powers they have. On Night 2, I used it on RyJae, thinking I could protect her without interfering with her Day cleansing power. I didn't realize that the offer was a Day power but the cleansing itself was a blockable Night action.
Luckily, Bill claims he didn't have any sins to cleanse anyway, so no harm done.
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Post by scáthach on Feb 27, 2013 12:45:45 GMT -5
I believe Bill is Town due to RyJae's cleansing investigation, and I believe I was inadvertently responsible for the block on RyJae that prevented his sin cleansing. But there was no cleansing - so there was no investigation, so why do you believe he's town?
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Feb 27, 2013 13:06:06 GMT -5
Sure I'll post my PM if it will make you feel better. Mine had a mistake in it though....I'll post my subsequent PMs.
I questioned Pleo because I was really confused by what my PM meant, and why I didn't know who the other masons were:
Pleo's Response:
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 27, 2013 13:14:06 GMT -5
I thought about editing out #2, but it seems obvious to everyone except Moley that I was the one who lynched Pollux. And it's getting boring watching him barking up trees. I was pretty convinced that Suburban was non-Devil and I knew I was Christian and so Pollux got the rope. Sorry, Pollux. You were never more than one of several possibilities to me. Evidently my killdar is way off once again. Apparently I've missed a breadcrumbing from Guiri as well, although all I can see is the "drinks" thing, and I have no idea what that means. Well this put Scathach right off the list of "likely devils" and right back onto the list of "don't have a clue". So Unvote: Scathach.That leaves three for the money: BillMC, Guiri, and CatInASuit. Oh wait... I believe Bill is Town due to RyJae's cleansing investigation, and I believe I was inadvertently responsible for the block on RyJae that prevented his sin cleansing. So if anyone is voting to lynch him because of the block, don't. My powers include a block/protect action. I can protect a player, but if I do, they are prevented from using any powers they have. On Night 2, I used it on RyJae, thinking I could protect her without interfering with her Day cleansing power. I didn't realize that the offer was a Day power but the cleansing itself was a blockable Night action. Luckily, Bill claims he didn't have any sins to cleanse anyway, so no harm done. I'm still nervous about BillMC but this takes away one fairly major fact against him, if true. I would still like to see him investigated. As Scathach points out, the lack of cleansing proves nothing either way. Unvote: BillMC. Another one for the "don't have a clue" bucket. That leaves two for the money. For the third day in a row, my preferred lynch is CatInASuit / Kid Vermicious. And if he and Guiri both turn out to have perfect Christian or third-party claims as well, there's always another possibility... BTW I have claimed already and I am with Mahaloth, I am ready to vote off one of the "Masons". What's up with this sample PM, did Hockey get it from the Mod? It is not unknown for Scum to claim masons if there aren't any real masons in a game. All the "masons" in this game so far have been "cleared" when they were looking pretty scummy. Uuuuuuuuuuuuurgh. Don't tempt me like this, please. I will say this for HockeyMonkey - she was the first to actually vote for Patricia, although I'm not ruling her out because of that - and her attitude has at least been consistent throughout with her late mason claim. I would much rather spend an investigation on a Mason than a lynch, especially with so many mislynches and miskills under our collective belts.
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 27, 2013 13:17:52 GMT -5
I hope to hell I get this right, I'm trying to multi quote from different days. Fuck. I'm even more confused on sins and Sins now than I was before. No Christian should be confused by sins and Cardinal sins, to my that was quite clear on receipt of my PM. So just how many points do you rack up every time you vote for someone? Are they like Indulgences or something for you? Or do just really, really, really, really like 'spreading the love'? Um, no. But, why do you ask? Are you trying to guess my Cardinal Sin? Why didn't you ask Holy Moley the same thing when he voted for basically every single person on the player list on Day One? Too bad I can't vote for you again, because that sure does sound like a Devilish thing to ask. Smudging Suburban Plankton and it looks as if she knows he isn't scum (Devilish). This is after she was confused about sins and Cardinal Sins, convenient? Thanks for not waiting until the last minute this time. I do find it strange that you confirm 2 of the most devilish characters in the game. I can't give you any explanation regarding their game-play. I can only assure you they they are both 100% Christian, and since we should be lynching Devils, they will be poor choices for the noose. There is no explanation at all regarding why they aren't Devils just a pedantic statement that they aren't, not even a coy "well it would help Town". I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but honestly you're going to have to give us more information than that, and soon. In regular games, your confirmation would be followed by something like "they're a Mason with me" or "I'm a detective and that's my result." The fact that you're saying "they're Christian, 100%, just trust me" really leaves a lot of room for the wiggle of doubt. I can understand and appreciate the idea that you're giving the minimal amount of information to keep the Devils guessing. However, at some point you're going to have to give us more because without it, we're really just taking you at your word. Plus, since you can see that the death reveals don't give us that much information, if you happen to bite it before you tell us anything, we may not get the full benefit of your knowledge depending on what your role is. The fact is, to me there's already a lot of confirming going on and it seems really strange to me. Ryjae says he can confirm Christians 100% and now you have a method of doing that as well, and between the two of you, you've already 100% cleared three people? To me, something doesn't quite add up there with my limited view of the picture. I do understand where you are coming from, but I feel I should keep the exact mechanism of how I know this information close to the vest for now. We all have very limited views of the picture, and I want to keep the Devils as limited as possible. So here she is keeping things very close to the chest but still being pedantic about them being Christians. Do your results give you Devil/non Devil ? or do you/ can you / get specific faction results?- I mean what are the odds you chose to investigate 2 players that WERE christian? - help us out here- if your results were specific- with out a clue of an option of other factions share that please I was told they were Christian in a PM from Pleonast. No other option, no other faction. To address the second part - there are several people who have expressed the opinion that Mr V and DML are the two scummiest players in the game. An investigator might want to check, no? I have no idea what the odds are. Flipping a coin can yield the same result several times in a row. So MrV and Dizzy were the 2 scummiest players in the game until she said they were Christians! snipped How likely is it, based on what we learned about Patricia possibly not having win-clue C, that Devils do not have Cardinal Sins? This post from Pollux reads to me like he doesn't have a Cardinal Sin and therefore doesn't know how they work or how they would affect game play. That's not how I read that post at all. Devils probably don't have Cardinal Sins, but we have assumed that they could use them against us if they found out what a player's specific C Sin was. What he seems to be saying is that perhaps it's not just devils who have use of that knowledge. I have one and I certainly don't know how they work or affect game play. If you know how they work or affect game play, please enlighten the rest of us. Once again we are back to the Cardinal Sins. I know exactly how mine works and how it affects game play, except of course if I die with a sin and I have plenty of those. I missed my night action as well. All the other nights have been longer and I was in class all day and never thought about the game till now. Goddammit Holy Moley, there is a fucking reason I haven't shared that information! You are like a mutherfuckin dog with a mutherfuckin bone. Fat lot of good I've been able to do. So here it is: 01. The Nun, Christian, Investigator/Mechanic/Manipulator - Hockey Monkey!Role Name:The Nun Alignment: Christian Victory Conditions: 1. You must stop the Devils from winning. You don't exactly know what that entails, but here are some hints: a. Lynching or killing Devils will always help your team. b. Removing your sins will always help your team, but increasing them may or may not be beneficial. c. Never reveal to another player nor allow another player to figure out your Cardinal Sin. Role Type: Investigator/Mechanic/Manipulator Powers: 1. You know that dizzymrslizzyis the Friar and mistervisceralis the Monk. Both are Christian and cannot be recruited. 2. You may communicate secretly at the Priory. 3. Each Night, you may protect from being killed by a Devil a living player who is not yourself or the Friar or Monk. 4. You cannot be recruited. That is a direct copy and paste with the spacing left exactly as it appeared in my PM for Mr V and Dizzy's names. My Cardinal Sin Power: You may learn the identity of all players who targeted you and what type of power they used (Killer, Investigator, Manipulator, Mechanic). If you choose to do so, you will sin. This power cannot be blocked or redirected, but some powers may not be detected. So I wanted the Devils to think I was a regular type of investigator so I might be targeted so I might learn something. I have not gained any additional information, and don't expect to now. So to recap - We are masons, Dizzy and Mr V are 100% Christian and will remain so throughout the game and so will I. Now shut the fuck up about it. And to me this was the best, what type of Cardinal sin is that, Rage, envy? I don't remember "Power" being a Cardianl Sin but I could be wrong as I so often am in these games but I feel it's strong enough to me for a vote. I think scum went out on a limb and decided to fool us all. Vote Hockey Monkey
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Feb 27, 2013 13:21:46 GMT -5
Vote: SilverJan
For voting a claimed Mason, and someone who I know is 100% Christian.
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 27, 2013 13:25:17 GMT -5
Initial Sins: 1 Cardinal Sin:
This is from my PM and it's actually underlined, noted any colons in Hockey Monkey's? Me neither. Another thing to note is the NO spacing between
1. You know thatdizzymrslizzyis the Friar andmistervisceralis the Monk. Both are Christian and cannot be recruited.
Interesting don't you think? I would vote for all of the "masons" but if I do that I might aswell not vote at all.
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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 27, 2013 13:25:46 GMT -5
Do we have an updated order list for claiming? I'm lost as to what is going on with that.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 27, 2013 13:26:23 GMT -5
...And I was thinking it might be worth even using investigations on the Heretics too, if only to confirm that we're not disguised devils. At least it would give us some leeway to work with the Christians, or at least the Masonic variants of same.
Too many damn investigation targets!
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Feb 27, 2013 13:32:29 GMT -5
I fully invited Ryjae or anyone else to investigate any one of us in the Mason group. We have nothing to hide at all.
And SilverJan I didn't understand your last post at all.
And as I said in my PM to Pleo, there was NO color in my PM at all.
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