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Post by swammerdami on Jan 26, 2014 23:52:29 GMT -5
I still think Bill vs Story is just a misunderstanding. My own secondary target is described as suspicious in my role PM: I took the "screaming ... feeding ... may even be the mole" as just color. Silver Jan, what country do you come from? I'm Thomas Martens from Belgium. Does anyone's role PM make me seem suspicious? If so, that'll prove these suspicions are just color: I think we'll all agree I'm as Townie as they come. Captain Klutz's reveal confuses things. Since I think Planks is scum, I'm happy to reverse: Uninvestigate: Suburban PlanktonUnvote: dizzymrslizzieVote: Suburban PlanktonInvestigate: dizzymrslizzy
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Post by Silver Jan on Jan 27, 2014 2:33:50 GMT -5
I think BillMc and Story are both telling the truth but there is a misunderstanding. Story could just be the person that needs BillMc needs dead just as I needed SisC dead in order to win.
swammi, I am from Iceland.
I was quite ready to vote for Meeko toDay until I found out that he didn't leave his room last night and Colby was blocked again. I am aware that Dizzy could be covering for him but that would be a terribly risky move for scum to make, especially combined with Captain Klutz's results as we know gnarly was Town. I am just confused now, my usual state and I will wait a bit before putting down my investigation vote or any vote at all. It would be nice to hear from Meeko.
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Post by swammerdami on Jan 27, 2014 3:13:36 GMT -5
I think BillMc and Story are both telling the truth but there is a misunderstanding. Story could just be the person that needs BillMc needs dead just as I needed SisC dead in order to win. swammi, I am from Iceland. So I was right that you never left (redacted) because it was (redacted) isolated. Yet I don't think you're Scum despite that my role PM states "some Icelandic pencil pusher ... may even be the mole." Similarly, I think Story is innocent. Similarly, I'd not be surprised if someone's role PM makes it look like the Belgian (me) is a mole. FOS on BillMc for putting his personal win-con ahead of Town's interests.
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Post by Silver Jan on Jan 27, 2014 3:40:32 GMT -5
That's me. I also think story is innocent and probably BillMc too although I wouldn't be at all surprised if scum do need a particular Townie dead too. I also think swammerdammi is Town. It's quite nice to have a list of could be Townies for a change.
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Post by swammerdami on Jan 27, 2014 4:17:33 GMT -5
... I wouldn't be at all surprised if scum do need a particular Townie dead too... I still think it's probably pro-Town to reveal our identities and targets. Revealing targets first might be best (despite that I gave my identity to demonstrate candor). If Scum have such conditions (or make fake claims), we'd find out at death reveal of Scum with such a claim. Anyone want a Belgian dead?
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Jan 27, 2014 8:17:20 GMT -5
So yeah, I guess at this point there's no harm releasing this piece of information. I was reluctant to release my tracking results on Meeko because well, Meeko is my extra target. My result still doesn't exonerate him, but we know he didn't block Colby last night unless as I said earlier it was an untrackable/stealth block?
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jan 27, 2014 12:25:10 GMT -5
I think this is a lot of information we're revealing and I'm not sure I understand the benefit. I'm not necessarily disinclined to reveal my name and that of my target... but I'd like someone to explain how blasting all this information out helps us, and - more importantly - why we think the moderator would have created a game with an espionage theme where we blabbing all our secrets publicly wouldn't have negative consequences.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Jan 27, 2014 12:36:56 GMT -5
So yeah, I guess at this point there's no harm releasing this piece of information. I was reluctant to release my tracking results on Meeko because well, Meeko is my extra target. My result still doesn't exonerate him, but we know he didn't block Colby last night unless as I said earlier it was an untrackable/stealth block? Just for the record, how do you know that Meeko is the person you need dead? I assume your PM didn't say "Oh, by the way, you need to make sure Meeko eats it". N2 I tracked Meeko, and found out that he did not act last night. Unless his block is untrackable, then Meeko did not block Colby. Although the color of my reveal is interesting... That is a strange result. It seems to say that Meeko visited no-one, but that he was "out and about". And the part about "he doesn't even move outside his 'room' once" is quite odd. At first glance, it suggests that what Meeko is doing is 'untrackable'...but it's not untrackable in the 'normal' sense, where the actions are simply invisible. It seems like you're being told "Meeko definitely did something, but you can't tell what it was". Unless the Mod is being really strict with the definition of "visited"; could it be that Meeko is some sort of 'mad bomber' type, who somehow 'tags' his targets, without actually 'visiting' them? But that would still involve him leaving his "room", wouldn't it? There's something very odd about Meeko here, which may explain in part his reluctance to be Investigated. That makes me want to see him dead, so that we can find out what he's hiding. But something's niggling at me telling me that might not be a good idea. And of course we do have the fact that dizzymrslizzy wants him dead for personal reasons. I need to think on this some more...
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Jan 27, 2014 12:43:43 GMT -5
This turns out to be much sillier than I'd realized. I am indeed West German. Just not any kind of traitor or defector. Bill's just over-reaching a bit. story, Do you have any reason to believe that Bill is the player that you need dead in order to fulfill your wincon? Is there anything in your PM that mentions Alf Yakovlev, or a Danishman? We already had Mahaloth and Captain Klutz claiming to be each other's targets; I'm wondering if we have a number of such pairs, or if that was coincidence. And I'm starting to think my earlier idea that "all 'personal targets' must be Town or non-malicious Third Party" might be wrong. Logically, it makes sense; an 'extra wincon' isn't 'extra' if it's contained in the 'primary' wincon. But it seems game-breaking if that's the case; if we were to follow swammerdami's lead and have everybody name their targets, then we would in short order have a buttload of confirmed Town. I just don't think it could be that easy. Of course, with the idea of Defectors, and Traitors, and whatnot, even a 'confirmed Townie' is only as confirmed as yesterdays news, so maybe it doesn't make that much difference one way or another.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Jan 27, 2014 12:46:42 GMT -5
Like Mr. Meeko, who is a Roleblocker and claimed to visit me last night via Texcat Am I missing something here? I don't recall texcat saying anything about Meeko, and Meeko specifically claimed to have not visited you.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jan 27, 2014 12:47:22 GMT -5
This turns out to be much sillier than I'd realized. I am indeed West German. Just not any kind of traitor or defector. Bill's just over-reaching a bit. story, Do you have any reason to believe that Bill is the player that you need dead in order to fulfill your wincon? Is there anything in your PM that mentions Alf Yakovlev, or a Danishman? We already had Mahaloth and Captain Klutz claiming to be each other's targets; I'm wondering if we have a number of such pairs, or if that was coincidence.. No. BillMc is definitely not my personal target.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Jan 27, 2014 12:47:53 GMT -5
Anyone want a Belgian dead? Well, yeah. But just as a matter of principle...nothing to do with the game.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Jan 27, 2014 12:56:44 GMT -5
I think BillMc and Story are both telling the truth but there is a misunderstanding. Story could just be the person that needs BillMc needs dead just as I needed SisC dead in order to win. swammi, I am from Iceland. So I was right that you never left (redacted) because it was (redacted) isolated. Yet I don't think you're Scum despite that my role PM states "some Icelandic pencil pusher ... may even be the mole." Similarly, I think Story is innocent. Similarly, I'd not be surprised if someone's role PM makes it look like the Belgian (me) is a mole. FOS on BillMc for putting his personal win-con ahead of Town's interests. Are you claiming that Silver Jan is your 'personal target'?
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jan 27, 2014 13:04:02 GMT -5
Like Mr. Meeko, who is a Roleblocker and claimed to visit me last night via Texcat He dies. Today. Vote: Vote Meeko Oh, and you're still awesome Meeko.... Even though you're scum Where did I claim this? Vote ColbyI never said I blocked you. Because you know what? I haven't. Again, I'm not ruling out a redirect of my power, but I'm also not, not voting a liar.
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Post by Meeko on Jan 27, 2014 13:05:54 GMT -5
Antivote Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jan 27, 2014 13:17:08 GMT -5
There is more than one role blocker.
I didn't, until just now, realize that we were forced into using "quick topic" for updates. I thought that was a one time deal for our role. I have told fruit that this arrangement is not quick at all. I hate it.
Re-reading my role just now shows an updated thread that states I was role blocked last night.
I suggest that scum probably have the same complement of powers as town has. I suggest it is their entire M.O. to counter actions with their like actions.
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Post by Pleonast on Jan 27, 2014 13:41:31 GMT -5
Gnarly was a cop, so Colby is now confirmed. Okay, I've been skimming this game way too much, but where does this come from? gnarly was a role-cop, not an alignment-cop. Please explain your logic step-by-step. Even if this move successfully results in my mislynch, it will probably result in Bill being either Night killed or lynched on Night Three/Day Four. And that is exactly why in he-said-she-said situation, we need to lynch you. If you're town, a one-for-one trade is always useful, unless we're at lynch-or-lose. And I don't believe we are. And if you're not town, we need to lynch you anyway. vote storyteller0910 for being the West German defector. Like Mr. Meeko, who is a Roleblocker and claimed to visit me last night via Texcat I can't parse this. Are you claiming results, or are you making an inference? This turns out to be much sillier than I'd realized. I am indeed West German. Just not any kind of traitor or defector. Bill's just over-reaching a bit. This turns out to be much sillier than I'd realized. I am indeed West German. Just not any kind of traitor or defector. Bill's just over-reaching a bit. This kind of back-pedaling does not make you look less suspicious. So instead of "Bill's statement is flatly untrue.", it's only partly untrue now. And "over-reaching". Following today's reveal, I have to claim. I am a town-aligned alignment-copOn Night 1, I investigated gnarlycharlie. I got the result: "You have determined that gnarlycharlie is aligned with the mafia." On Night 1, I investigated dizzymrslizzy. I got the result: "You have determined that dizzymrslizzy is aligned with the mafia." The result on gnarlycharlie is wrong, so I am not a standard cop. (yes, I have checked with the mod. Reply was "Your results were the results you were supposed to receive. gnarlycharlie's reveal was what it was supposed to be.") There are various types of cops. For example: - always right (the standard cop) - always wrong - always gets guilty - always gets innocent - gets random results It wouldn't surprise me if we have various cops in this game, of various types. My death should reveal what type of cop I am. Until then, my results are not actionable. Any other cops, don't assume that you are receiving accurate results. And if you have received any wrong results then I suggest claiming so that your results can be properly interpreted after you die. Okay, this is bizarre. Any alignment investigator that does not always get the correct results (unless interfered with by scum) is a gastard role. I summarily reject your other options (always wrong, always gets guilty, always gets innocent, gets random results). Instead we need to consider how/if your results are being interfered with. I see two alternatives: 1. Miller/godfather type roles. gnarly was not a miller. Is dizzy a miller? (Please tell us, dizzy.) 2. Scum interference. Either messing up how your target appears to all investigators. Or, messing up any investigations you make. I don't think we can decide which case we have here. But it is actionable. We don't need to necessarily lynch base on your results, but we do need more information from dizzy. unvote storyteller0910 until Bill makes more clear exactly what the evidence is. vote dizzymrslizzy for being investigated as scum and until you make a plausible claim. That's me. I also think story is innocent and probably BillMc too although I wouldn't be at all surprised if scum do need a particular Townie dead too. I also think swammerdammi is Town. It's quite nice to have a list of could be Townies for a change. I'm extremely hesitant to think we can extract a townie list based on claimed secondary targets.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Jan 27, 2014 15:15:18 GMT -5
vote dizzymrslizzy for being investigated as scum and until you make a plausible claim. How do you justify this vote, when you note yourself that Captain Klutz received 'bad intelligence' regarding gnarlycharlie? If we can't trust CKs result on gnarly (which we can't), then why do you trust his result on dizzy? It seems to me that if you were going to be voting for anyone as a result of this information, it would be Captain Klutz for offering a claim that is absolutely unprovable, not dizzymrslizzy for being the target of an ability that is known to be faulty at best.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Jan 27, 2014 15:32:23 GMT -5
Like Mr. Meeko, who is a Roleblocker and claimed to visit me last night via Texcat He dies. Today. Vote: Vote Meeko Oh, and you're still awesome Meeko.... Even though you're scum Where did I claim this? Vote ColbyI never said I blocked you. Because you know what? I haven't. Again, I'm not ruling out a redirect of my power, but I'm also not, not voting a liar. So, here we have Meeko telling us that he did not block Colby. Earlier, we had dizzymrslissy telling us she tracked Meeko, and he didn't leave his "room"...but that he was "out and about"...whatever that all means. On the other side, we have Colby with his comment (quoted above) that Meeko "claimed to visit me last night via Texcat". I asked about this earlier, as Meeko has here, because I can't make heads nor tails of that statement. Colby claimed Doctor under pressure on Day 1, which ended in guiri's lynch. He says he was blocked on Night 1, which saw SisC die. Then he claims to have tried to protect texcat Night 2, but was blocked again, leading to texcat's death. I feel like there's definitely something up with Meeko's role...but at the same time, I'm not seeing much of anything from Colby that makes me trust him, either.
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Post by Pleonast on Jan 27, 2014 15:39:05 GMT -5
vote dizzymrslizzy for being investigated as scum and until you make a plausible claim. How do you justify this vote, when you note yourself that Captain Klutz received 'bad intelligence' regarding gnarlycharlie? If we can't trust CKs result on gnarly (which we can't), then why do you trust his result on dizzy? It seems to me that if you were going to be voting for anyone as a result of this information, it would be Captain Klutz for offering a claim that is absolutely unprovable, not dizzymrslizzy for being the target of an ability that is known to be faulty at best. I don't see any reason to think that all of Klutz's results are wrong. The investigation of gnarlie was independent of the investigation of dizzy. So I'm weighing the two hypotheticals: 1) dizzy is scum and Klutz was interfered with on only gnarlie or 2) dizzy is not scum and Klutz was interfered with on both results or 3) dizzy is a miller and Klutz was interfered with on only gnarly. I think the first is simplest and without further evidence, that's what I'll go with. But we can get further evidence: dizzy needs to explain the result of "scum" on themself. A convincing miller claim would get me to remove my vote. There may be other arguments as well. dizzy not answering questions before the end of the Day will make the scum hypothetical look more likely. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I'm still suspicious of Silver Jan and will probably move my vote there depending on dizzy's reaction. I'm also waiting to see Colby's explanation about Meeko. Meeko is definitely on my likely scum list, but is lower down than others.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Jan 27, 2014 15:43:38 GMT -5
Wait a sec...I may be misinterpreting dizzy's result as it pertains to Meeko. dizzy, this was the result of your Night 2 investigation, correct? Which you received at the beginning of Day 3? Assuming the answer to both those questions is "yes": "Well, you may have hit a dud last night" - indicates Night 2 ('last night' if it's now the morning of Day 3) "but tonight you know that not only does your target have something to hide, you're certain he'll be out and about tonight." - 'tonight' here would seem to indicate the upcoming Night 3. "he'll be out and about" = "he will be out and about", not "he was out and about". But that means that you received information, vague as it may be, about what Meeko is going to do in the upcoming Night? How can this be? I would assume that Meeko is free to change his orders at any point up until the Nightly deadline, so how can you know that he will do anything on a future Night? The only thing that comes immediately to mind is if Meeko has a 'delayed' power, where he visits someone one Night, but his action doesn't take effect until the following Night. In that case, it is possible that he 'visited' Colby on Night 1, but didn't 'block' Colby until Night 2, when he did so without leaving his room. Of course, that would mean that someone else blocked Colby on Night 1...unless nobody blocked Colby on Night 1.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Jan 27, 2014 16:28:05 GMT -5
First of all, I have no defense of Klutz's investigation. Unless I am a Miller and don't know it, my Role PM says that I am Town. Name and Country affiliation removed so I don't reveal myself to whoever might be gunning for me.
As for my result. I read it as
"Last night was a Dud" aka Night 1 when I followed Sister Coyote and she died.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Jan 27, 2014 16:29:27 GMT -5
And yes I Tracked Meeko N2 after I got the reveal that he was my Target. Hoping that he would do something stupid like visit Colby again.
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Post by patricia on Jan 27, 2014 22:07:48 GMT -5
Color me confused. I don't see a way the Dizzy, Colby and Meeko are all telling the truth here. I think someone is lying and my vote and money is on Meeko
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Post by Captain Klutz on Jan 27, 2014 22:52:38 GMT -5
We already had Mahaloth and Captain Klutz claiming to be each other's targets; I'm wondering if we have a number of such pairs, or if that was coincidence. And I'm starting to think my earlier idea that "all 'personal targets' must be Town or non-malicious Third Party" might be wrong. Logically, it makes sense; an 'extra wincon' isn't 'extra' if it's contained in the 'primary' wincon. But it seems game-breaking if that's the case; if we were to follow swammerdami's lead and have everybody name their targets, then we would in short order have a buttload of confirmed Town. I just don't think it could be that easy. Of course, with the idea of Defectors, and Traitors, and whatnot, even a 'confirmed Townie' is only as confirmed as yesterdays news, so maybe it doesn't make that much difference one way or another. Mahaloth targeted me with an investigation, but he never stated that I was his "extra condition" target. I have not revealed my name or nationality, so my status as a target is unknown. I think we should all name our targets. Even if they are not all town, they are surely more likely to be town than scum. I do NOT suggest that we all reveal ourselves, just our targets.
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Post by Colby11 on Jan 27, 2014 23:37:49 GMT -5
Color me confused. I don't see a way the Dizzy, Colby and Meeko are all telling the truth here. I think someone is lying and my vote and money is on Meeko Maybe I am confusing the reveal with what texcat revealed. Double checking tomorrow, stupid iPhone is no way to play mafia
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Jan 28, 2014 0:27:34 GMT -5
Color me confused. I don't see a way the Dizzy, Colby and Meeko are all telling the truth here. I think someone is lying and my vote and money is on Meeko What are you basing this on?
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Post by Silver Jan on Jan 28, 2014 1:57:31 GMT -5
Vote: Pleonast
I think his logic is somewhat flawed: he places a vote on Dizzy because of a result that we know could be wrong and expects Dizzy to explain it. How could she if she is Town and if she is scum is she going to admit to it? He is suspicious of me because I was disappointed to find out that my pernonal taget was Town and yet he completly ignores BillMc's vote on Story. I feel he is just looking for a place to stick a vote and trying to look good while doing it. He doesn't make sense to me.
Any more thoughts about who to investigate toDay?
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Post by swammerdami on Jan 28, 2014 3:09:00 GMT -5
From discussions in prior games, Investigators whose results are twisted (always backward, or always Scum, etc.) are common in Mafia games in some forums. (Though I don't recall it being used in games I've played here or at Geeb.)
Thus, IMO, the most likely explanation for Lizzy's read as Scum is that Klutz is a reversed-result Investigator and Lizzy is Town!
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Post by Captain Klutz on Jan 28, 2014 4:10:46 GMT -5
From discussions in prior games, Investigators whose results are twisted (always backward, or always Scum, etc.) are common in Mafia games in some forums. (Though I don't recall it being used in games I've played here or at Geeb.) Thus, IMO, the most likely explanation for Lizzy's read as Scum is that Klutz is a reversed-result Investigator and Lizzy is Town! That's what I am thinking as well. Certainly there is no need to rush to judgement on dizzymrslizzy, we can wait to see what my death reveals. Indeed, FOS on Pleonast. It looks like an attempt to get a mislynch on dizzymrslizzy, before my actual role is exposed. Here is my full role, with name/nationality redacted. In hindsight, it reads like a not very good investigator: Incidentally, note that it says "...there's an enemy of the state that needs eliminating" This looks like it is referring to my target, but we now know that that player was town, despite being described as an enemy of the state. Food for thought over the BillMc/storyteller saga.
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