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Post by NAF1138 on Dec 5, 2007 18:26:25 GMT -5
NAF's claim of Replicant invulnerability during the Night should be investigated as well. Let's look at those past Days, again... RESISTANCE! There is a big difference between being resistant to night kills and being invulnerable to them. Also, why does my claim require further investigation now that Pleo is dead? Doesn't story's description of Pleo's powers confirm replicant resistance to NK's? Speaking of which, Cookies, can I move that back to the facts column in the "what we know" spreadsheet?
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Post by Pollux Oil on Dec 5, 2007 18:40:51 GMT -5
Ugh ugh ugh. Okay, I hate to do this to you guys but I have information I think needs to be told to everyone in light of Pleonast's death. I've been debating whether to share it now or wait, but I don't want to die toNight without saying anything, especially if I'm the only person that knows this info. I thought about giving out this information without a roleclaim since I'm not particularly in danger or a major suspect for lynching, but if I gave the information just by itself then you guys would have possibly distrusted it. The way I figured, more time would be spent discussing if I was townie really trying to be helpful, or a scum trying to muddy the waters, which would lead to debate that would probably end up with me roleclaiming anyway, just having more wasted time on our hands. So here we go. I am one of the Scions of New Canaan. My father was one of the founders of New Canaan, I was born and raised here, but was sent to Earth to study for a while. When I heard of the news that New Canaan was in trouble, I returned, and recognized some other people I grew up with that I am positive aren't Replicants. In simpler Mafia terms, I'm a Mason.Why am I roleclaiming now? At Night? Well because in addition to being a mason, I have important information regarding the Replicant Nexus-9 model. I am a Dean of Sciences at an Earth university, and through my academic contacts I know something about the scientific development of the Nexus-9. Simply put, the Nexus-9 Replicant has two modes: activated and inactivated. When the Nexus-9 is inactive, it is a near-perfect simulation of a human. It is so good of a model, it can fool even Blade Runners. However, as a fail-safe, the scientists designed that if the Nexus-9 ever conversed with another Replicant and/or took an action that was violent in nature, it would activate and show up as a Replicant to any investigator. -- The way I took this information was that there were at least two investigators, one during the Day and one during the Night. Day investigators would register a Nexus-9 as pro-Colony. But at Night, when the Nexus-9 was conversing with other Replicants and/or killing people, investigators would be able to spot it as rogue. So unfortunately guys, I hate to do this, but we can't be 100% certain that Rugger is town. If Rugger is the Nexus-9, Pleonast may have investigated him and returned a pro-town role. That's why I specifically worded my first post during the Night the way I did: And I guess Pleo's parting words means our Governor was investigated as pro-town. I feel like this is important information that needed to be shared now, rather than waiting until Dawn, again just in case I was killed and I was the only one to know this important info. I was hesitant about revealing this info up until Pleonast was revealed as the Blade Runner, because I didn't want to give away to the scum that there was possibly a Day and Night investigator. Now that Pleonast and Kat V.1 are both dead, I feel like revealing this info has more benefits for the town than the scum. On a sort-of-related note, this was also why I was willing to believe NAF's role-claim so quickly, since I also got a "tidbit" of information regarding our Replicant nemeses. This is all the info I have, though, aside from the identities of the other Scions. And no, I won't tell you how many of us there are. I don't want to help the scum any. I hope this helps out...at the very least it gives us all more to discuss.
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Post by NAF1138 on Dec 5, 2007 18:49:31 GMT -5
Cool, anyone want to call Atarus a liar? And say that he is not a mason?
More to the point, any other masons want to claim so he doesn't die leaving us masonless and having the mason color 100% exposed for future use by replicants? We don't want monk gate redux.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Dec 5, 2007 19:29:27 GMT -5
But Monkgate was so fun...
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Post by NAF1138 on Dec 5, 2007 19:31:39 GMT -5
But Monkgate was so fun... Well sure...fun for us. I imagine it was...less fun...for the town. At least to start off.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Dec 5, 2007 20:53:57 GMT -5
And the Rugger WIFOM returns...
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Dec 5, 2007 20:56:09 GMT -5
Speaking of which, Cookies, can I move that back to the facts column in the "what we know" spreadsheet? How about a "What we think we might know" column?
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Post by kassia on Dec 5, 2007 21:27:45 GMT -5
OK, just going to throw this out there in an attempt to curb suspicion of me.
I'm going to assume that Pleo's Day-action investigative power worked the same way Night actions do - during Day he chose the player he wanted to investigate and then when the Day was over he was given information about that player.
Story, are you able to confirm this?
So, going with that assumption, here is a brief breakdown of what I think happened.
DAY ONE -Rugger is elected Governor. -Pleo very likely investigates Rugger. -Without having much info at all (just like everyone else) Pleo votes to lynch Kat v1.0 - who turns out to be a good guy when she is Night killed.
NIGHT ONE -Pleo is given info on his (probable) investigation and Rugger is confirmed Colonist.
DAY TWO -Pleo analyzes all the posts of the players who 1. did not vote for a confirmed colonist and 2. had the least amount of posts. This included me, diggitcamera, Klutz, mhaye, Hal Briston, and atarus. -After this analyses, Pleo decides to vote for mhaye, who has the scummiest "rating" -Pleo says since nobody jumped on the mhaye bandwagon, he would switch his vote to me - I had the 2nd highest "rating" -At this point, I'm thinking Pleo probably decided to investigate mhaye
NIGHT TWO -Pleo is given information on mhaye who is confirmed as a Colonist. So Pleo still does not have any confirmation of a player being a Replicant, which means he has to continue playing the way he was playing before.
DAY THREE -Pleo does his analyses again on players (he doesn't really give a reason as to why he chose certain players, except for post counts and because he did them yesterDay). This list includes me, diggitcamera and zeriel. -Zerial and I are given the same "rating" so Pleo says he is happy voting for me again, saying, "but I may switch to one of the others if no one else does." -Having to choose between 2 players with equal "ratings", he chose to vote for one and probably investigated the other. I'm guessing he chose Zeriel to use his power on, but then got lynched and was unable to get any information from that investigation.
If Pleo did happen to investigate me on Day Two, out of the 6 players he did an analyses of, and IF he did get a bad report on me that Night, why wouldn't he have been much more forthright and blunt and insistent about voting for me? Why would he throw me into a mish-mash of other suspects - including one who was rated just as highly?
Why would he continue using a rating system that nobody liked and everyone was giving him flak about instead of trying a different tactic to try to convince everyone that I was the person to vote for?
All I can say is that had Pleo been given proof that I was a Replicant, he would have tried harder to convince everyone of that - especially since it was obvious from pretty early in Day Three that he was going to by lynched.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Dec 5, 2007 22:14:53 GMT -5
OK, just going to throw this out there in an attempt to curb suspicion of me. I'm going to assume that Pleo's Day-action investigative power worked the same way Night actions do - during Day he chose the player he wanted to investigate and then when the Day was over he was given information about that player. Story, are you able to confirm this?
Pleonast received his results for a Day's investigation immediately following that Day's lynch.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Dec 5, 2007 22:41:25 GMT -5
How safe do the rest of you feel about ruling Pleo's vig power out as a killing force on Night 1? I would think that he would've fessed up had one of the bodies been his kill, but at the same time his parting posts are confusing me with the mixture of heavy-handed breadcrumbing for Santo, while at the same time being quite vague in other areas where there was at least a possibility that he had further solid info that he could've shared.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Dec 6, 2007 1:40:24 GMT -5
How safe do the rest of you feel about ruling Pleo's vig power out as a killing force on Night 1? I would think that he would've fessed up had one of the bodies been his kill, but at the same time his parting posts are confusing me with the mixture of heavy-handed breadcrumbing for Santo, while at the same time being quite vague in other areas where there was at least a possibility that he had further solid info that he could've shared. I don't see why we should rule out Pleo killing someone on Night 1. I thought both Cat.v1 and mhaye looked like Vig kills, as they had gathered some suspicion during the Day. What I don't understand is, why did Pleo not claim when it was clear that he was going to be lynched? The claim probably would not have saved him, but at least he could have told us the results of his investigations and who he killed. Yes, if he claims he loses his powers. But a living, powerless townie with investigation results is more useful than a power role dying unclaimed. Hmmm, unless he thinks that NAF can bring him back...
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Dec 6, 2007 2:07:18 GMT -5
...implying that the reason that he would die as he did was because he had investigated NAF and found him to be a Colonist.
But throw in Atarus' claim, and you have to wonder if Pleo did indeed investigate NAF as Colonist, was the reading due to NAF being a Nexus-9?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Dec 6, 2007 2:09:55 GMT -5
NETA: I hope the rest of you are playing under the assumption that NAF will not be resurrecting you. Better to be safe than sorry. Play each day like it was your last. Yadda, yadda, etc, etc...
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Post by Captain Klutz on Dec 6, 2007 2:58:57 GMT -5
Even if Pleo did investigate NAF as a colonist, he still wouldn't have known if NAF had sampled him, so that would be a very dangerous gambit.
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Post by CatInASuit on Dec 6, 2007 7:05:19 GMT -5
Ok, some thoughts on the rogue replicants in the colony. If I'm right, storyteller had some real fun thinking this up. First of all, I am going to take what atarus says at face value. Why, because there is no reason for him to roleclaim now, masons are hinted at in the opening colour and his inside info fits with some of the other colour that has been used. It is easy enough for someone else to counterclaim as well, if he is lying. So until someone else counter claims, I will consider this valid. The Nexus-9 Replicant has two modes: activated and inactivated. When the Nexus-9 is inactive, it is a near-perfect simulation of a human. It is so good of a model, it can fool even Blade Runners. However, as a fail-safe, the scientists designed that if the Nexus-9 ever conversed with another Replicant and/or took an action that was violent in nature, it would activate and show up as a Replicant to any investigator. and from the colour In late 2025, Scott Engineering released a new model Replicant: the Nexus-9 - the first model capable of simulating fully developed human emotions. The Nexus-9 was introduced to a fascinated public early one afternoon; by the next morning it had disappeared from Scott’s laboratories, killing three scientists and a late night security guard in the process.
Over the next few months, the Nexus-9 observed the world and it learned. The new Replicant had an incredibly powerful analytic mind to go with its carefully falsified emotions, and was stronger by a factor of two than any of its predecessors. It grew disgusted by the second-class treatment given its sibling Replicants, and planned revolution in miniature. Eventually, it conceived a plan. The Nexus-9 gathered a small group of rogue Replicants - each uniquely specialized in some way. It secured them false names and identifications, and scattered the group on four separate flights to the OWC called New Canaan. There, the Nexus-9 reasoned, the Replicants could reunite, and achieve equality within the human population - forcibly if necessary. First things first: the rogue replicants have all spoken to another replicant (from the introduction), ie they have all been activated and so would appear to be replicants to Pleonast, This means if Pleonast investigated Santo Rugger, he is not one of the rogue replicants. As far as I am concerned, Santo Rugger is confirmed. Where atarus' inside info comes in is with extra replicants such as those that NAF1138 could create. They would be an unactivated Nexus-9 Replicant until such time as they either talked to another replicant or commited a violent action. The issue would be when Pleonast encountered a non-rogue replicant which had been activated and so would think they were scum. A few more thoughts shortly.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Dec 6, 2007 7:48:32 GMT -5
Simply put, the Nexus-9 Replicant has two modes: activated and inactivated. When the Nexus-9 is inactive, it is a near-perfect simulation of a human. It is so good of a model, it can fool even Blade Runners. However, as a fail-safe, the scientists designed that if the Nexus-9 ever conversed with another Replicant and/or took an action that was violent in nature, it would activate and show up as a Replicant to any investigator. -- The way I took this information was that there were at least two investigators, one during the Day and one during the Night. Day investigators would register a Nexus-9 as pro-Colony. But at Night, when the Nexus-9 was conversing with other Replicants and/or killing people, investigators would be able to spot it as rogue. I interpret this differently. It says "...if the Nexus-9 ever conversed...". It doesn't sound like something that switches on and off, but instead something that it has until it is lost forever. "...if the Nexus-9 ever conversed with another Replicant..." Now, what does this mean? It could mean if it ever joins in the Night discussion with the scum replicants. It could also mean if it replies to its fellow scum in the game threads. In this latter case, that would include conversing with Pleo, as he was (unbeknown to scum) a replicant. How useful is this? Well, if this is what it means then in the game threads, the Nexus-9 never responded to any of their fellow scum's posts. This is going to be a fairly painful thing to analyse in looking for clues to the Nexus-9's identity, but it could be used the other way: when the Nexus-9 is known, anyone they replied to (and anyone who replied to the Nexus-9) is probably not scum. Yes, this assumes that the Nexus-9 decided it was worth remaining invisible to investigators. Note that Rugger (actually, probably everyone) has conversed with Pleo, so Rugger (if the Nexus-9) would have appeared as a replicant to Pleo's investigation. If the above is an accurate interpretation of the Nexus-9's ability, then Rugger is cleared. The other part of it: "...took an action that was violent in nature..." This would certainly include killing, which suggests that the scum actually choose one of their number to do the killing. The wording is a bit woolly - what else could "violent in nature" mean, apart from killing? Well, recruitment is out. Anyone have any ideas?
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Post by Captain Klutz on Dec 6, 2007 7:58:29 GMT -5
Cat.v2, I'm not sure that the introductory colour actually means that the Nexus-9 has spoken to the other Replicants. Admittedly, gathering fellow replicants implies that they have conversed, but it makes little sense (from a game point of view) to say "you have a special ability, but it was negated before the game started".
Also, as far as I can see there is only one special Nexus-9: any other replicants (eg NAF's) would be ordinary ones.
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Post by CatInASuit on Dec 6, 2007 8:07:43 GMT -5
I think that the violent part of the info that atarus has possibly refers to a drawback for the replicant which NAF might be able to shed more light on.
Although, I leave that decision up to NAF, whether or not I am correct.
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Post by CatInASuit on Dec 6, 2007 8:22:15 GMT -5
For all those intent on lynching kassia because of Pleonast's double vote, please consider the following Reread my analysis posts on Day Two and Day Three for how I approached looking for scum without homing in on inconsequential things. I don't know how right I am, but at least I'm approaching it in a useful way. I read this as, he did not know if the people he analysed were replicants. Just my POV.
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Post by CatInASuit on Dec 6, 2007 8:41:37 GMT -5
Cat.v2, I'm not sure that the introductory colour actually means that the Nexus-9 has spoken to the other Replicants. Admittedly, gathering fellow replicants implies that they have conversed, but it makes little sense (from a game point of view) to say "you have a special ability, but it was negated before the game started". Also, as far as I can see there is only one special Nexus-9: any other replicants (eg NAF's) would be ordinary ones. The question of type of replicant is NAF's decision to reveal. The introductory colour says that the replicants gathered already were "each uniquely specialized in some way." To have them as mainly invisible to some of the pro-town investigation would be really harsh on the town. <meta-game> Think of it this way, if the replicants haven't conversed, then to remain inactive they could not plan at night or even go to the scum board, because it would involve conversing with another replicant. </meta-game> I think there is another twist to this piece of info that we currently don't have.
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Post by Zeriel on Dec 6, 2007 8:52:32 GMT -5
I have to agree with CIAS: Pleo had time for two investigations max, and we can guess one was probably Rugger. He also didn't vote on Day 3. This makes me inclined to believe that kassia guessed right--his second investigation was someone already dead, and with his own head in the noose he wasn't going to breadcrumb with a vote.
Any other reasonable explanations for why he didn't vote on Day 3?
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Post by Drain Bead on Dec 6, 2007 9:03:44 GMT -5
I have to agree with CIAS: Pleo had time for two investigations max, and we can guess one was probably Rugger. He also didn't vote on Day 3. This makes me inclined to believe that kassia guessed right--his second investigation was someone already dead, and with his own head in the noose he wasn't going to breadcrumb with a vote. Any other reasonable explanations for why he didn't vote on Day 3? But he did: psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=gameplay&action=display&thread=1196528096&page=4#1196786610As far as I could see, no unvote. And multiple people in this thread have mentioned the Day 3 kassia vote. So...where did this post come from, zeriel?
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Post by Drain Bead on Dec 6, 2007 9:04:14 GMT -5
Sorry, I didn't realize that was going to cause scroll...Story, can you fix my link?
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Post by CatInASuit on Dec 6, 2007 9:13:30 GMT -5
One other thing occured concerning atarus' info.
If Pleonast had investigated a replicant he would have known them as a replicant because he was a replicant and would have made the Nexus-9 active, because talking to a replicant makes them active, so he would have spotted them as a replicant.
Convoluted or what.
Either storyteller missed a logical flaw or something else is going on.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Dec 6, 2007 9:25:27 GMT -5
The introductory colour says that the replicants gathered already were "each uniquely specialized in some way." To have them as mainly invisible to some of the pro-town investigation would be really harsh on the town. <meta-game> Think of it this way, if the replicants haven't conversed, then to remain inactive they could not plan at night or even go to the scum board, because it would involve conversing with another replicant. </meta-game> I think there is another twist to this piece of info that we currently don't have. You appear to be assuming that all rogue replicants are Nexus-9s. I don't see how the introductory colour supports that assumption: it refers to the Nexus-9, suggesting that it is the only one. For example, it says "There, the Nexus-9 reasoned, the Replicants could reunite...". If they were all Nexus-9s then that statement is very poorly written. It seems clear (to me, at least), that the Nexus-9 is the leader and has "godfather" ability if it is prepared to avoid contact with the other scum replicants.
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Post by CatInASuit on Dec 6, 2007 9:38:27 GMT -5
You appear to be assuming that all rogue replicants are Nexus-9s. I don't see how the introductory colour supports that assumption: it refers to the Nexus-9, suggesting that it is the only one. For example, it says "There, the Nexus-9 reasoned, the Replicants could reunite...". If they were all Nexus-9s then that statement is very poorly written. It seems clear (to me, at least), that the Nexus-9 is the leader and has "godfather" ability if it is prepared to avoid contact with the other scum replicants. If there is only one nexus-9, and it is the original rogue replicant, he/she has been active since they escaped. They took violent action and killed people which would set them as active. No Godfather power for them. Go and read the into again. It uses "The Nexus-9" to refer to the escapee, not as a indication it is the sole Nexus-9. Now, I agree that all the rogue replicants might not be Nexus-9 variants, but I am not discounting the possibility. I think there is still something else going on instead.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Dec 6, 2007 10:26:14 GMT -5
Almost forgot to put Santo back on the list of Unconfirmed Pleo voters (final votes only, ignoring Gov race):
Santo Rugger (Days 1,2,3) diggitcamara (Days 1,2,3) Roosh (Days 1,2,3)
kassia (Days 1,3)
sinjin (Days 2,3) zuma 2.0 (Days 2,3)
drainbead (Day 3) Catina Suit v 2.0 (Day 3) Kat v 2.0 (Day 3) Captain Klutz (Day 3)
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Post by kassia on Dec 6, 2007 10:31:29 GMT -5
Simply put, the Nexus-9 Replicant has two modes: activated and inactivated. When the Nexus-9 is inactive, it is a near-perfect simulation of a human. It is so good of a model, it can fool even Blade Runners. However, as a fail-safe, the scientists designed that if the Nexus-9 ever conversed with another Replicant and/or took an action that was violent in nature, it would activate and show up as a Replicant to any investigator. -- The way I took this information was that there were at least two investigators, one during the Day and one during the Night. Day investigators would register a Nexus-9 as pro-Colony. But at Night, when the Nexus-9 was conversing with other Replicants and/or killing people, investigators would be able to spot it as rogue. From this, it sounds like (at least according to the way atarus interpreted his role) that the Nexus-9 can be activated and inactivated over and over again. He says " when the Nexus-9 was conversing with other Replicants" which seems to me that he thinks it is activated during the times it is conversing or committing violent actions and it is inactive during the times when it is not doing these things. Does that make sense?
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Post by NAF1138 on Dec 6, 2007 11:04:44 GMT -5
Let's put a quick end to the speculation about me sampling Pleo.
I did not. Pleo is dead and not coming back. Unfortunately, I bought his role claim enough to think he was a less desirable person to sample. Even more sadly, I was going to sample him on Day 1 before he claimed, but his claimed role didn't seem valuable enough to be worth bringing back.
Yes, I am kicking myself.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
Posts: 3
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
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Post by Santo Rugger on Dec 6, 2007 11:06:06 GMT -5
Almost forgot to put Santo back on the list of Unconfirmed Pleo voters <snip> *sigh* Does that mean we're going to have to... never mind, I'm not even going to even get into it... I hate to pull the metagame card, but, what are the chances of me being scum SIX times in a row, with a godfather-like role THREE times in a row? While I understand the need for skepticism, can't you at least consider me confirmed until it comes to the point where you have reason to believe otherwise? Acknowledging that the possibility that I'm Nexus-9 (are we operating under the assumption that that's the godfather-like role in this game) is healthy, and necessary to obtain an objective perspective. Continuing to mention the possibility is not.
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