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Post by brewha on May 15, 2008 6:44:00 GMT -5
WooHoo! My first WIN!
I didn't want to say anything before for fear of jinxing us.
Thanks Mods and Thanks to all the players. It was a fun game.
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Post by Holy Moley! on May 15, 2008 9:20:15 GMT -5
Well, since apparently everybody but me can see the Masons' board anyway, I'm going to make my post. It's a big'un, so bear with me!
First off, apologies. I'd like to start by apologizing to the entire group that I wasn't able to be online more or post more. Those who've played with me will know that I'm usually a lot more active than this. The reason for this is quite simply that I'm currently staying with my family because of a chest condition; it's not serious, but it's preventing me from going to work, and I've had a few days in hospital since I began this game! This, obviously, is also why there have been times when I've not been able to get online as often as I would have liked to.
Second off, Santo Rugger, who sent me a very nice PM after he was eliminated from the game. Unfortunately I wasn't as kind to him on the Masons' board; after having trawled through 60+ posts of his and finding precisely nothing, I referred to him as a "giant bombastic bore", which might have been justified by my reaction to his posts but which I feel seriously guilty about now.
So, to make this clear, I have a great deal of love for Santo Rugger. Were I physically able to do so, I'd probably offer to have his children; but as it is, I can only offer to marry him, something that I understand is now perfectly legal in certain states of the USA and has been for a while over here in Britain. <3 Santo!
Third, Atarus, who I voted for twice. I'm not so much concerned about suspecting you or being the first one to push for your lynch - everyone gets it wrong sometimes - but I was seriously worried when Rysto's bandwagon seemed to go on for a full day unopposed. Then the whole CIAS/Sinjin issue started up and I couldn't work out if this was the scum response I'd expected or not. In the end my only action was to post of my doubts a few times on the Masons' board, when I should have come out publicly, swinging in your defence. (Had I been on anything like my usual form in this game, I would have!) In retrospect, I think the whole Mason team was asleep at the wheel for most of Day 2 and Day 3. But you'll see the Masons' board anyway...
Next, a few observations. I've played this game very differently to my usual style, which I don't think has done me any favours; I also think that I've brought a different viewpoint than most people have taken. At the start of the game especially this seemed to lead me wrong a lot; later on, though, it worked very well indeed.
There are a lot of ideas and thoughts that I had which I think I should have pushed more strongly: I thought it would be wise to shoot for the Bat early on, but didn't say so; I was also very unsure of the timing of DBI's lynch. It's fair to say that I lost a lot of confidence after some of my early mistakes, even though they didn't seem to be repeated later on. I'm normally the guy who comes out and tries to take charge of the game, especially near the end. Not this time.
I'm also aware, of course, that I survived so long because I was never a real threat to the scum, either role-wise (to my detractors during "molegate" who didn't believe my role was as comically pathetic as I said it was: YOU try saying "Rehydrated Dehydrated Pirate" ten times quickly without laughing!) or, at the start, in terms of my ideas. Even when I got it right it was a damp squib, since Rysto had basically come to the same conclusions as I had a couple of days earlier!
Two more things: first, I throw my hands up at the appalling Brewha accusation, which I think was pointed out in the viewers' lounge. The only defence I can offer at that one is that 1) I'd completely missed the NAF-Brewha exchange earlier, and 2) I was genuinely (and correctly) convinced that Brewha was hiding a great deal, even if I got his motives wrong. That said, if you want to post something that makes you look like an idiot and a complete prat at the same time, I think that one paragraph is a good template to use!
Second, I most certainly don't throw my hands up at the "scumbait" post after Smurf was night-killed. It took me the best part of three quarters of an hour to complete. It was worded in such a way that it might get a reaction from someone involved in Smurf's night-kill, but nobody else, but it wouldn't be obvious that that was the case - in other words, only scum would want to react to it, but they'd feel fairly safe doing so.
Given that Darth Sensitive completely gave himself away, I reckon it was pretty well done, although my post immediately following the "scumbait" one (which you'll notice takes a very different tone and is far more accurate in terms of how I was feeling at the time) pretty much gave the game away. I didn't realise that the second post would contrast so strongly with the first until after I'd posted it, and unfortunately you can't edit posts afterwards. Not that it made any difference.
Now let me go onto Props.
First, Rysto, Story, NAF and Hoopy. I said I'm the type of player who likes to take charge of a game. With these guys around, I didn't have to. From the start I think they were influencing townie opinions and the way the game was going. While I was pretty much sidelined by my own lack of confidence, these four were out there pushing votes and winning the game. If I could credit the win to any one group of townies, I think it would be these guys.
Second, BlasterMaster. This guy was a confirmed scum for something like three rounds, and managed to survive the entire time through sheer ballsiness. He even persuaded the town to take out DBI instead of himself. Then, when his last-bullet power would have given the scum the best possible chance to win, he practically got himself taken out of the game, killing Story in the process and allowing Darth to use the batarang on me. (Story correctly predicted the "last bullet" thing, but unfortunately too late to do anything about it.) Finally, after having taken him out and found that he was scum, when I looked back on BlaM's posts I got the definite impression that whoever Batman was, it was a power player like Rysto - not someone more passive, like Darth. It made me seriously doubt whether I was right about Batman's identity. In short, this was superb play all round by BlaM IMO.
Third, Diomedes and Roosh. I know it's pretty much standard practice to support the hosts in a game like this, but boy do these guys deserve it. The setup was balanced more perfectly than I would have thought possible - in the end it came right down to the last lynch - and I don't know how you came up with the balance of roles that you did, but it worked incredibly well. Also, I laughed out loud at some of your start-of-day and start-of-night posts more times than I can count, as well as some of the off-the-wall hosting, of which I'll give an example: NAF wasn't allowed to post in the Masons' lounge although he could read what was going on, but Cookies messed up a "secret signals"-type deal. The mods' response: "Cookies. A flying trout slaps you upside your head. The trout is emblazoned 'NAF'." Magnificent.
In short, it was an awesome game, hosted extremely well; and if the quality of play and of hosting is this good in most games, I can understand why the site seems to attract so many dedicated players!
So that's just about it... thanks to everyone for a fantastic game, I wish I could have contributed more but have hugely enjoyed what's happened up until now, and I'll hopefully see you in future games. (Not quite yet though... I'd like to get my chest sorted out before making a commitment like this again!) Cheers,
Moley.
PS - Santo, if you're going to take me up on my offer of marriage, I'm afraid you'll have to buy the cake yourself. I'm flat broke.)
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Post by NAF1138 on May 15, 2008 9:48:53 GMT -5
: NAF wasn't allowed to post in the Masons' lounge although he could read what was going on, but Cookies messed up a "secret signals"-type deal. The mods' response: "Cookies. A flying trout slaps you upside your head. The trout is emblazoned 'NAF'." Magnificent. That right there is when Roosh/Dio became my favorite mods ever. I sent them several frustrated PM's about the whole code situation, finally saying at one point "Would you please slap Cookies with a fish?" So they did. It was great. They then let me abuse the masons in other ways involving sea life, and at one point sent a polar bear in too. For that I will be forever in their debt. Hats off guys, it was a lot of fun. Oh and mole, I do hope you stick around. We are a good group and it was great having you in this game, come back for the next one.
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Koldanar
Mome Rath
[on:I survived the apocralypse!][of:Into the void, go I]
Posts: 4
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Post by Koldanar on May 15, 2008 10:17:12 GMT -5
While I am estatic that I have a second win, I can't help but think "Aww nuts, I didn't get to do much in this game :grumble silly SK grumble:. Still, even spoilered this was a marvelous game to watch; hell I was shouting at my monitor multiple times over the course of this game at particular moves (especially some of the night actions).
All told, kudos to the mods for giving us this one.
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Darth Sensitive
Mome Rath
With great power comes great responsibility / That's the catchphrase of Old Uncle Ben
Posts: 18
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Post by Darth Sensitive on May 15, 2008 10:40:28 GMT -5
Mole - You played a good game. My response to your baiting post wasn't just a dashed off one. I had taken flak my last game as godfather for sitting back too much and not doing anything controversial. I worked for a while on my post, trying to get it out there as a p.o.ed town member. Even before getting into the game I thought you masons were not on the level, and my decisions to go after you all weren't motivated by scumminess. Had I subbed into somebody else's spot, I would have hammered you just the same.
But I didn't quite get my tone right, and though I was correct in believing that until the end, you all could win, I was unable to convince anyone else of the fact.
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Post by Pollux Oil on May 15, 2008 11:10:58 GMT -5
Hey Mole, it's no biggie. I don't think I would have had as big a problem if I hadn't made that monumental blunder in the first place. What I found really interesting was that everybody that voted to lynch me that day was a townie, sans Hal. All the PFK/scum + sinjin had voted to kill CatinaSuit that Day.
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Post by Holy Moley! on May 15, 2008 11:25:21 GMT -5
Mole - You played a good game. My response to your baiting post wasn't just a dashed off one. I had taken flak my last game as godfather for sitting back too much and not doing anything controversial. I worked for a while on my post, trying to get it out there as a p.o.ed town member. Even before getting into the game I thought you masons were not on the level, and my decisions to go after you all weren't motivated by scumminess. Had I subbed into somebody else's spot, I would have hammered you just the same. But I didn't quite get my tone right, and though I was correct in believing that until the end, you all could win, I was unable to convince anyone else of the fact. Thanks for that, I always wondered what the story was behind that post. It did seem uncharacteristic of you at the time. I actually felt quite sorry for you at the end in that I'd said in all honesty that I thought you were doomed quite early on, and it turned out to be true. In retrospect, a lot of what happened late in the game was fairly obvious a bit earlier on. Slow inevitable death = not nice. If it's any consolation, I was seriously questioning myself very late on. Rysto's investigations did look quite convenient from a scum point of view, and I couldn't exonerate him from the voting records. If it hadn't been for the Hawkeye situation I would have been a lot more on the fence than I was in the end.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Post by Santo Rugger on May 15, 2008 15:06:35 GMT -5
Second off, Santo Rugger, who sent me a very nice PM after he was eliminated from the game. Unfortunately I wasn't as kind to him on the Masons' board; after having trawled through 60+ posts of his and finding precisely nothing, I referred to him as a "giant bombastic bore", which might have been justified by my reaction to his posts but which I feel seriously guilty about now. So, to make this clear, I have a great deal of love for Santo Rugger. Were I physically able to do so, I'd probably offer to have his children; but as it is, I can only offer to marry him, something that I understand is now perfectly legal in certain states of the USA and has been for a while over here in Britain. <3 Santo! <snip> PS - Santo, if you're going to take me up on my offer of marriage, I'm afraid you'll have to buy the cake yourself. I'm flat broke.) If I get any more posts like this, I'm not going to be able to make my retirement last very long! As far as marriage, I'd be more apt to play with another gal together, but thanks for the offer. I can buy you some beer though... speaking of, I have 100 beers at my house that I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do with. Anybody have any ideas? But, more importantly, don't worry about calling me a bore. I thought it was pretty funny, and the way I decided to play my role in this game basically meant that I was going to have to post a whole lot about not very much. I actually think it's kinda funny.
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Post by NAF1138 on May 15, 2008 16:27:46 GMT -5
speaking of, I have 100 beers at my house that I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do with. Anybody have any ideas? I have many ideas on what to do with them. Most of them involve driving said beers to Los Angeles. What kind of beer are we talking about?
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Post by sinjin on May 15, 2008 16:43:23 GMT -5
Darth and mole: It was a lot closer than you think. I have severely impaired scumdar. I really wasn't getting the scummy vibe off of Darth that everyone else did. It seemed like atarus all over again to me. I really, really thought for a long time that Rysto and hawkeyeop had concocted a bold plan to protect Bats (Rysto). In the end I got the right guy for all the wrong reasons.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on May 15, 2008 18:02:14 GMT -5
Second off, Santo Rugger, who sent me a very nice PM after he was eliminated from the game. Unfortunately I wasn't as kind to him on the Masons' board; after having trawled through 60+ posts of his and finding precisely nothing, I referred to him as a "giant bombastic bore", which might have been justified by my reaction to his posts but which I feel seriously guilty about now. So, to make this clear, I have a great deal of love for Santo Rugger. Were I physically able to do so, I'd probably offer to have his children; but as it is, I can only offer to marry him, something that I understand is now perfectly legal in certain states of the USA and has been for a while over here in Britain. <3 Santo! <snip> PS - Santo, if you're going to take me up on my offer of marriage, I'm afraid you'll have to buy the cake yourself. I'm flat broke.) If I get any more posts like this, I'm not going to be able to make my retirement last very long! As far as marriage, I'd be more apt to play with another gal together, but thanks for the offer. I can buy you some beer though... speaking of, I have 100 beers at my house that I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do with. Anybody have any ideas? I thought those would be long gone by now.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on May 15, 2008 20:22:33 GMT -5
But, more importantly, don't worry about calling me a bore. I thought it was pretty funny, and the way I decided to play my role in this game basically meant that I was going to have to post a whole lot about not very much. I actually think it's kinda funny. Heh, heh. Yeah, I deleted the sent PM and it never ended up on the spoler boards, but on night one I believe the reason I blocked you that I sent to Roosh was something along the lines of: "Ice Down Rugger mainly because he just simply annoyed the fuck out of me." I must say, though. On the whole your play did provide amusement, and in some ways I was sad to see Joker go. However, I did rather enjoy the sudden dramatic decrease in posts to wade through each Day.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on May 15, 2008 20:39:34 GMT -5
Hey Mole, it's no biggie. I don't think I would have had as big a problem if I hadn't made that monumental blunder in the first place. What I found really interesting was that everybody that voted to lynch me that day was a townie, sans Hal. All the PFK/scum + sinjin had voted to kill CatinaSuit that Day. Actually, you should be proud. Although none of us knew it at the time, you set the events that resulted in town's win. See your mistake led Rysto to start a bandwagon against you. Your claim caused me to claim. Your coming up town put me on the hotseat, because conventional wisdom wouldn't give town two roleblockers. Knowing that I was probably #1 in line the next day, I realized that 1) if I didn't use my mass freeze that night, I might not get the chance and 2) the mass freeze should take some of the heat off of me (pun intended) since it'd be an extremely unlikely power for scum to have. Now, originally before the whole bandwagon against you, I actually wasn't planning on using the mass freeze for another Day or Two, realizing that although buying the town a free day of discussion is nice, it's better when there is a bit more info out there. (Although waiting too long to use it, makes it less powerful.) There were a few key events stopped on night two in ascending order of importance: The negative: Two-face investigated Zuma. The postives: I blocked being hatted by Ryjae (okay, that's not a key event at all, but I found it interesting anyway) Hal wasn't killed by Robin/DrainBead. And in an odd twist of fate, he outs her as scum on Day 4. And most importantly, Rysto was unable to investigate Joker, who got lynched the next day. If he had successfully investigated Rugger, he would have become a SK/Detective combo and the key information he provided town going into the endgame would never have come out. In fact, there's a good chance that Harley would have won this thing. So your death, caused by Rysto came full circle back to him and saved town. So really, even though you weren't around much to directly contribute, you were the catalyst for the collision of serendipitous events that enabled town to win this thing.
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Post by Holy Moley! on May 16, 2008 3:12:27 GMT -5
Ah, yes, the old "if A hadn't killed B, C would have investigated D instead of E which would have led to F being killed off by G instead of H, causing the outing of I and the timely death of J at the hands of K who would have survived an attack by M thanks to the intervention of N, therefore A WON THE GAME!!!" argument. Works every time.
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Post by tdpatriots12 on May 16, 2008 10:16:19 GMT -5
Well, the scum do have one of those.
We (mostly my mistake as well as zuma's) screwed up our planned roleclaims. If Zuma hadn't claimed as X or if Klutz hadn't been subbed out or if I hadn't claimed as Ash...who knows, right?
As a team, we failed to really communicate, I think - and in the future I'm gonna do whatever I can to see that doesn't happen (next time I'm scum that is).
We basically acted alone during the day... which I think led to some confusion over "linked" people. One of the few things I was happy about was that when I got lynched it appeared as though I didn't take any other scum down with me.
I am curious though, let's say no game mechanic ended up exposing me (ie, an investigation or discovering the real survivor) - how long would I have been left alive? Yes, I know it's impossible to predict with any accuracy, I'm just wondering what you were thinking before Rysto caught me (effectively).
Same as DBI? Sooner? Later? Or would the fact that you killed all the other scum and people were still getting nightkilled would have given me away?
I figured the best case scenario for me would be living just long enough to get a few nightkills in (so that Batman, the Godfather, could continue to not make any night actions) to catch us up in the numbers game.
note: Yes, if you read the spoiler forums you know that if I had been paying more attention to claims I wouldn't have used Ash at all, and woulda used Maxie Zeus. In which case... who knows what the hell would have happened. Great game, Roosh/Dio.
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Post by Holy Moley! on May 16, 2008 11:35:20 GMT -5
Well I can only answer for myself and my own idea of how to vote for that one, TD. And in my own case, you and DrainBead were near the top of my suspect list pretty soon because of Kat's exile. (I think I voted you a total of three times before you were actually exiled, but each time I took my vote off you before the end.)
FTR, BlaM and Darth I didn't suspect until much later on, BlaM because of the other masons and Darth because of my "wolf trap". Kat I was genuinely astonished was scum (I think this is the first time I've ever been in a game where the town have taken out a wolf in the first lynch) and Hawkeye had me thinking he was just a confused townie until his DBI lie was exposed. But you and DrainBead were right up there on my list from very early on - in your case from the start, as I pointed out when I voted you day one; in Drain's case from the moment I looked hard at Kat's lynch and saw how well he "fitted" as her partner.
What stopped me trying to seriously get a bandwagon started against either of you? - first Atarus' lynch, then your "Ash" claim (irony upon irony!) and DrainBead's "ventriloquist" act (I doubted that a genuine scum would go to that much trouble. Little did I know!) Also I thought my stock had gone down a lot since I started the whole Atarus fiasco and was a pretty major cause of the only really preventable mislynch of the game, so I'd lost a lot of confidence that way. Which is probably a good thing, since I'd missed out on the NAF-Brewha exchange and was seriously looking at Brewha as a top suspect as well...
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Post by Hawkmod on May 16, 2008 12:56:48 GMT -5
A more thorough answer than Sinjin could have hoped for.
I was an independent scum. I did not know who the rest of the scum were. I could investigate the character name or alignment of one person per day. If I investigated a costumed do-gooder, I would have joined the scum board.
My investigations per day were Ryjae (held off the reveal, because I didn’t have a fake role to claim, Hal, Blaster (Not costumed!!!!), DBI, TD (blocked), NAF’s character name
When I got the DBI result, I knew TD was scum. I spent most of the day trying to confirm with Smurf that there was only one non-mason PFK (I figured if there was a mason PFK it would just be dropped from the number), which is why I delayed my reveal.
My options were as follows:
Claim I had no result.
My previous claim of no result didn’t really go over well. Claiming that I received nothing again, especially if I was investigating a PFK (though I could of course lie about the argue) would damage my credibility.
Claim DBI as PFK
This would have almost assuredly resulted in a lynch of TDPats. Now, I don’t mind taking out a scum who will probably eventually be lynched anyway. It would have helped my pro-town arguments significantly, and the only downside was speeding up a lynch. This is where the lack of communication becomes a significant problem though. TD claiming to be a PFK was odd to me. He didn’t seem to have a reason to make such a claim, and would know that it would probably have resulted in an eventual lynch. I had to think there was a reason that TD made such a ploy. Perhaps he only needed to stay alive a couple more days to use a certain power? I couldn’t know what the risk was. Furthermore, this would have likely resulted in Ryjae staying alive longer, and I wasn’t terribly comfortable wearing a hat.
Claim Blaster as scum.
This runs into similar issues as the previous one. I didn’t know Alfred’s value, and I didn’t want to keep Ryjae alive.
Claim someone else as town.
Claim DBI as town.
These were the two options I mainly considered. I couldn’t night kill, so I didn’t plan on being around for the end game. Thus, I developed the following plan. I would investigate TD that night, and finally join the scum board. The next day I would out whichever scum was most expendable. This would hopefully give me enough townie cred to finger a town member as scum the day after. I would be lynched the day after that, but we would be approaching the point of lynch or lose. My hope was the town would suspect DBI as being scum at that point, and her lynch would allow us to be close to victory (As it turns out we would have won had this scenario played out assuming Blaster wasn’t lynched last.)
What I didn’t count on was there being another detective. I assumed Rysto thought I was scum, because he always thinks I’m scum. Rysto’s investigating DBI was brilliant, and I was screwed after that.
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Post by Holy Moley! on May 16, 2008 15:47:24 GMT -5
Again, thanks for making clear something that puzzled me for a long time. It's amazing how the pieces fall into place. I never once considered that you might not be able to contact the other scum at all when considering your outing by Rysto in the light of him possibly being scum at the end. But then, like the "standard" Godfather, it's just a game mechanic that I've not seen before. Personally, I give you full credit for having me fairly convinced that you were just a rather muddled townie like the rest of us. In the end I think you were unlucky rather than bad in terms of gameplay, and I also think you could have made it quite a bit further than you did had it not been for the DBI fiasco. So well done!
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Post by sinjin on May 16, 2008 23:19:21 GMT -5
hawkeyeop: thanks for the explanation. FTR I never thought the DBI mis-identification was an oof-da. I always thought there had to be a logical reason for you doing what you were doing. That's why I was sooooo suspicious of Rysto. I thought you were taking the fall for him. Turns out you were in a really bad position and essentially had few options. Good play, confused at least me for a long time.
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Post by Holy Moley! on May 18, 2008 3:19:21 GMT -5
What makes me laugh is that, looking in the spoiler lounge, people were actually surprised that I was more suspicious of Rysto than Sinjin, when I'd had her down as pretty much a certain citizen for the last four or five rounds. If Sinjin had flipped scum, I would have been flabbergasted. I'd also have been asking what the heck she was doing, never backing up her fellow spies on days like day five when BlaM and Darth did their double-team bit; and occasionally throwing suspicion on her fellow scum when there was absolutely no need to...
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