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Post by capybara on Aug 6, 2007 11:57:46 GMT -5
Oh, yeah-- the guy in the right-- huge yellow teeth, dishwater blonde, little webs between his toes? That's my uncle Jorge from Venezuela. Sorry you're dead!
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
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Post by Blaster Master on Aug 6, 2007 14:06:19 GMT -5
I had, in fact, largely overlooked that post. I read the whole second half of Day Two in one go through, so a lot of the happenings didn't really stick... I guess it's worth a second read through when I have time. Anyway, I think you make some valid points. Now, he is one to use some unusual logic,and sometimes it pays off (as in M4) and sometimes it doesn't (as in MV; that is, it may or may not have been correct, but it got him killed and no one really paid much mind to it later). In this case, I think you're right, that even the conspiracy theory is a little far stretched even for his tradition strangeness. He also appears to be more vague and obstinent. IOW, it seems to be an outlier for his expected behavior. I'm very interested to see a more substantive response from him.
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Post by capybara on Aug 6, 2007 17:23:54 GMT -5
Ok, well, to add to all that, I'm in the same place I was yesterday. Vote Mad the Swine for the reasons posted yesterday available per link in response to Blam above.
I find JSexton's discussion of the Cupid not-claim interesting and compelling. Perhaps CGwas as confused as Dotchan about whether it implied town-membership or not.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Aug 6, 2007 17:43:16 GMT -5
Mad the Swine (2) - Blaster Master, capybara
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Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
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Post by Merestil Haye on Aug 6, 2007 18:07:57 GMT -5
From next week (real life) I'll have more time to participate in these games. I'll still have to prioritise some time to jobhunting, but I'll no longer be forbidden to post in the games during the weekday (or even read them).
But first I have to get through this week. I'll have to play catchup on these threads tomorrow. I'm pretty close to dozing off in the seat.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Post by Santo Rugger on Aug 6, 2007 18:51:18 GMT -5
Ok, understood. Thanks for clarifying. <snip> I still don't get it. Can capybara and dnooman please elaborate? If dnooman doesn't have a good explanation for that one, and coupled with the quote below, I'm going to vote for him. So, tying things up sounds like the best move to you? And your reasoning is that his detailed analysis convinced people quickly? What? Isn't that what detailed analysies are supposed to do? If Roosh were scum, you're implying that he's attacking Dotchan a townie right? Yet, you are torn between Roosh and dotchan as being scum? And you don't see anything scummy about Cowgirl's posting history? Really? Really?It sounds to me like scum trying to save scum in desperation. I've thought Roosh was scummy before, so I'm likely to vote for one if the other is revealed as scum. Especially coupled with this: <snip> I still wanna win this thing*, ya know? *obviously as a Townie win.<snip> Why include that it's "obviously" as a Townie win?
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
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Post by Santo Rugger on Aug 6, 2007 18:55:44 GMT -5
My previous post references this: <snip> Who's death would tell us the most? I'm not saying that we should lynch them, but they might be a secondary choice for a night kill. <snip>
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Post by capybara on Aug 6, 2007 18:57:21 GMT -5
Ok, understood. Thanks for clarifying. <snip> I still don't get it. Can capybara and dnooman please elaborate? Since I'm here I'll unpack this. His theory, I believe, in the phrase "Who's death would tell us the most? I'm not saying that we should lynch them, but they might be a secondary choice for a night kill." was that whichever player's death was more likely to provide us with useful information would be less likely to occur during night kills. Since, you know, the scum don't want us to get useful information. That they'd prefer to kill players whose death's wouldn't help much. Does that make sense?
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Post by capybara on Aug 6, 2007 18:58:39 GMT -5
I.e.,"secondary" as in "not likely to happen at all", not "a pretty good idea."
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Post by dnooman on Aug 6, 2007 19:26:32 GMT -5
Looks like capybara beat me to it, and did a better job explaining what I meant than perhaps I might have. In retrospect, trying to determine whether a night kill gave us any useful information can get into WIFOM territory quite easily.
I was clearly wrong about Cowgirl. Mea culpa. I had myself pretty convinced she was scum, but nobody's perfect. As far as your vote for Roosh, I just didn't see the reasoning there. I have him in my book as leaning town, but again, I could be wrong there too.
Does this clarify things?
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
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Post by Santo Rugger on Aug 6, 2007 19:57:45 GMT -5
<snip> Does this clarify things? Sure. But it doesn't change my mind.
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Post by capybara on Aug 6, 2007 20:13:01 GMT -5
Uh, Now I'm confused. Are you arguing the opposite of what Dnooman suggests, then? Do you think we should determine which townsperson's death would tell us the most and kill them, or that you think they'll be much more of a night target? What exactly are you objecting to?
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Post by dnooman on Aug 6, 2007 20:44:07 GMT -5
I think he's just saying that he still finds me suspicious. Given the fact that I started a wagon against someone that turned up town, I can't say I really blame him. Other than that faux pas on my part, I can't see any other reason that someone might suspect me of being scum. I have the advantage of knowing that I'm town, which only the scum know as well. If he's a townie that is being circumspect, then I can't fault him for that. If he's a scum trying to set me up, I suspect that his motives will be found out.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Post by Santo Rugger on Aug 6, 2007 20:50:34 GMT -5
Uh, Now I'm confused. Are you arguing the opposite of what Dnooman suggests, then? Do you think we should determine which townsperson's death would tell us the most and kill them, or that you think they'll be much more of a night target? What exactly are you objecting to? I'm not still objecting to that particular passage. It pegged my interest, and caused me to look at him a little more carefully. Coupled with the way my vote was attacked yesterday, I'm not to sure about his allegiance right now.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Aug 7, 2007 0:41:44 GMT -5
Why include that it's "obviously" as a Townie win? Because (as i saw from the Mafia IV: Pirates thread, everyone likes to put thier own context into everything anyone says. Even a simple act of calling to someone as "You" had been called out as someone being on scum calling out to the townies. Or like a genius speaking to his fellow townies, but saying "you" instead. I tend to not look at such small nuances. But i know that people in these boards tend to look at that, and can use that to create a (rather weak i think) argument for or against a person. And i don't want that to be the case for myself. I don't want a townie to try it. Nor do i want a Scum to do it. So i tend to add in those little clarifications everyone i see something that someone could try to misconstrue either intentionally or accidentally.
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Post by Malacandra on Aug 7, 2007 3:23:56 GMT -5
Hmm... you know, I'm not sure about this Mad the Swine business, because I saw him playing a very sharp game in M4 as Captain Steele - even when he had hard info on a pirate killing he played 'em close to his chest in the early part of the Day to see if he could assemble a bit more of a case against another pirate for the next Day, reasoning that the info he had wouldn't run away in the meantime. Of course we know he's not playing a comparable role this time - and I've no wish to get into much discussion of any role he might be playing; the less said about that the better - but I'd just urge a little caution as his playing style may not be different enough from usual to warrant suspicion.
...And I say this as one who seems to attract suspicion just by saying "Nice day, isn't it?". (It is, by the way. After about three months of what seemed like incessant rain, August has started beautifully over here.)
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Post by diggitcamara on Aug 7, 2007 10:31:13 GMT -5
Well, yesterDay I was asking about the whole "crazy conspiracy" theory that MadtheSwine supposedly espoused.
Care to elaborate, MadtheSwine? (and while you're at it, I keep forgetting which abbreviations of your name you prefer. Would you mind repeating them?)
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Post by Malacandra on Aug 7, 2007 10:41:41 GMT -5
Fair enough. (Huh. I speak well of the weather, and now it looks like I'm riding through a thunderstorm on the way home. )
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Post by Mad The Swine on Aug 7, 2007 10:48:45 GMT -5
Ok, well, to add to all that, I'm in the same place I was yesterday. Vote Mad the Swine for the reasons posted yesterday available per link in response to Blam above. In regards to your link above, are you suggesting that on scumboard I decided to come up with a plan to off a fellow scum and then come over here and tell the plan to everyone? I know many of you think I may play a little crazy at times, but I ain't that crazy. Now, he is one to use some unusual logic,and sometimes it pays off (as in M4) and sometimes it doesn't (as in MV; I'm very interested to see a more substantive response from him. As Mal says here: Hmm... you know, I'm not sure about this Mad the Swine business, because I saw him playing a very sharp game in M4 as Captain Steele - even when he had hard info on a pirate killing he played 'em close to his chest in the early part of the Day to see if he could assemble a bit more of a case against another pirate for the next Day, reasoning that the info he had wouldn't run away in the meantime. Of course we know he's not playing a comparable role this time - and I've no wish to get into much discussion of any role he might be playing; the less said about that the better - but I'd just urge a little caution as his playing style may not be different enough from usual to warrant suspicion.
He feels my playing style is not that far from the norm,and Blaster
you and I have played enough together that you should know that this is ,and has been, my playing style. Large posts and in depth analysis is not something I do very often,not my forte. I just throw a small post out there with an idea and see who, if anyone, runs with it,much like what happenend this game with story going after drain.Which of course,gave me the idea that all of you are so fond of. I will say this now...I am town.
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Post by Mad The Swine on Aug 7, 2007 11:02:56 GMT -5
Well, yesterDay I was asking about the whole "crazy conspiracy" theory that MadtheSwine supposedly espoused. Care to elaborate, MadtheSwine? (and while you're at it, I keep forgetting which abbreviations of your name you prefer. Would you mind repeating them?) Sure, my idea was that the vote to kill off drain was preplanned by the scum as a sacrifice,so they could hide in that vote late in the game. There has been some talk of getting one of the scum to volunteer and how it would suck for the player that had to die right off,all I can offer to that is,well,nothing...who knows the circumstances cept the scum,they could have had a number of reasons as to why drain was chosen. I do want to point out that of the four non-scum deaths so far ...none of them voted for drain. I really dont care what ya call me mad,pig,piggy,swine.... just dont abbreviate me.
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Post by diggitcamara on Aug 7, 2007 12:09:38 GMT -5
Well, yesterDay I was asking about the whole "crazy conspiracy" theory that MadtheSwine supposedly espoused. Care to elaborate, MadtheSwine? (and while you're at it, I keep forgetting which abbreviations of your name you prefer. Would you mind repeating them?) Sure, my idea was that the vote to kill off drain was preplanned by the scum as a sacrifice,so they could hide in that vote late in the game. There has been some talk of getting one of the scum to volunteer and how it would suck for the player that had to die right off,all I can offer to that is,well,nothing...who knows the circumstances cept the scum,they could have had a number of reasons as to why drain was chosen. I do want to point out that of the four non-scum deaths so far ...none of them voted for drain. (snip) Well, to be fair, I was saying similar things shortly after Day 2 began. So I can't, in good conscience, vote for you on those grounds. I have changed my mind about the whole thing, though. Now I'm more inclined to think that maybe one or two of the early votes were scum votes but that the plan to let drainbead go down the drain didn't really exist. I think it was more of a train gone amok which the scum unsuccessfully tried to derail at the end. In other words, I'll take another look at the votes for drainbead's "rivals" and see what I come up with.
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Post by JSexton on Aug 7, 2007 12:13:31 GMT -5
Vote Malacandra
All the same reasons from days 1 and 2 apply, plus a brand-new one!
Guess who was third on the Cowgirl wagon. Go on, guess. Our buddy Mal! Bet y'all forgot about that thing, but, hey, it hit Menocchio in Mafia 1. No reason not to use it again.
(I'm only partially serious about that, by the way. Mostly it's that I thought he was a good lynch before, and I still think he is.)
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Post by Blaster Master on Aug 7, 2007 12:43:01 GMT -5
Sure, my idea was that the vote to kill off drain was preplanned by the scum as a sacrifice,so they could hide in that vote late in the game. There has been some talk of getting one of the scum to volunteer and how it would suck for the player that had to die right off,all I can offer to that is,well,nothing...who knows the circumstances cept the scum,they could have had a number of reasons as to why drain was chosen. First of all, I understand you do things a little off the cuff. Having a conspiracy theory doesn't seem particularly out of character for you. What seems peculiar about you is the way in which you're espousing your idea. Storyteller asks you to explain why something is a scum tell and, rather than providing some kind of convoluted explanation, it's simply that you can say whatever you want. Further, with regard to your conspiracy theory, there are logical flaws (at least from my perspective) that I would like to see addressed farther. Plus, I just don't see it passing the risk/reward threshold. IMO, in doesn't seem likely that someone either volunteered or was "volun-told". It seems more likely that if one or more scum voted for her it was pre-emptive upon the realization that she was probably not savable, not simply from the beginning. Let's look at it this way, what are essentially ranom votes are thrown out. If there's 4 scum out of 19 to begin with, there's 97.2% chance that one of the town's votes was on scum. If there's 5 scum that's 98.6% that one of the town's votes was on scum. At this point, the scum have the luxury of evaluating each vote as it comes in and seeing which ones look like they'll stick and which ones won't. I would theorize that after as few as 1-2 votes they can estimate, if one of those potentially sticky candidates is a scum, whether or not those votes are a threat and how to react. That is, if the initial vote is non-scum, and looks like it might stick, especially with daytime communication, I'm much more inclined to believe that any scum on the drainbead lynch wagon are likely to jump on earlier and spread out more, rather than what tends to look like late clustering. Similarly, if the initial vote is non-scum, they have to be VERY careful with the manner in which they vote. Obviously it's nice for them to have votes on record against eachother, but if they make too convincing of a case, they either get them lynched (bad for them) or they look like they have too much information (also bad for them). Obviously looking like a proponent on a scum lynch is very good, but does a first day final vote (not a whole lot different from true random, IMO) really make someone look THAT confirmed town? Let's say you're correct, and Storyteller is scum. Do you really think that he'd think it'd be a fair trade of 20-25% of your force (depending on whether there was 4 or 5 scum to begin with) is a fair trade for people to think you did a good job of drawing together from a minimum of information on Day One while running a major risk of displaying symptoms of perfect information syndrome? IMO, your conspiracy theory is FAR FAR more convoluted and far riskier than a simple early recognition of her being a likely lynchee, and trying to find ways to jump on, spread out, and look good. This fails on the principles of Occum's Razor and simple Risk vs. Reward. Now, what does this mean? As far as Storyteller, it means he could have just done a good job of gleaning through the information and making as decent of an informed decision as he could and then scum followed suit sometime thereafter. Or, it could mean he's scum, he was trying to get a convincing one-off vote against a fellow scum, hoping the points would be written off as "newbie mistakes", and it blew up in his face when a couple of townies latched on. Can you explain to me why you think your conspiracy theory is more likely than either of the above scenarios?
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Post by Blaster Master on Aug 7, 2007 12:56:19 GMT -5
Vote MalacandraAll the same reasons from days 1 and 2 apply, plus a brand-new one! Guess who was third on the Cowgirl wagon. Go on, guess. Our buddy Mal! Bet y'all forgot about that thing, but, hey, it hit Menocchio in Mafia 1. No reason not to use it again. (I'm only partially serious about that, by the way. Mostly it's that I thought he was a good lynch before, and I still think he is.) Can you reitterate and/or link to the points from Day 2? I think I missed them. As for the "third vote is a scum tell"... It's gone from "the third vote is a scum tell" to "claiming that the third vote is a scum tell is a scum tell" to "claiming that claiming that the third vote is a scum is a scum tell is a scum tell" (God, what a butchered bit of grammar ). I just gotta say... I was under the impression that really only "works" against newer players. I'm quite certain Malancandra has been around for at least one of those discussions.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 7, 2007 17:06:10 GMT -5
*crickets* Man, it's gotten quiet here. (I guess it is harder with all that stuff to re-read.) Still, it's Tuesday. Somebody do something scummy so I can vote to lynch already! FOS everybody who hasn't posted in Day Three
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Post by Malacandra on Aug 7, 2007 17:26:01 GMT -5
Vote Malacandra All the same reasons from days 1 and 2 apply, plus a brand-new one! Guess who was third on the Cowgirl wagon. Go on, guess. Our buddy Mal! Bet y'all forgot about that thing, but, hey, it hit Menocchio in Mafia 1. No reason not to use it again. (I'm only partially serious about that, by the way. Mostly it's that I thought he was a good lynch before, and I still think he is.) I'd hope you were wholly non-serious, or it's going to be a queer old game if none of us dares be the third vote for anyone. I'm seriously concerned that you seem to be taking an unfalsifiable position here. I'm sure I've piped up with some kind of answer to your earlier questions and accusations, and as far as I can tell all you do is take them as confirming your view that I am scum. I don't think that's going to help anyone. Up to now I had you pegged as a better player than "I still think he's a good lynch, just because". Ah well.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Post by Blaster Master on Aug 7, 2007 17:55:46 GMT -5
*crickets* Man, it's gotten quiet here. (I guess it is harder with all that stuff to re-read.) Still, it's Tuesday. Somebody do something scummy so I can vote to lynch already! FOS everybody who hasn't posted in Day ThreeHello pot, can I introduce you to kettle? That's what we need... more fluff. You said in reply 23 that you would take a look at your supsicion list and reread. Do you have any enlightenment from that? Perhaps not. In that case, do you care to comment on any of the happenings since you last posted? For instance, there's been three votes cast, do you care to comment on the cases made? Maybe not. Then, can you explain how a blanket FOS against people who haven't posted is helpful in finding scum? Do you at least care to enumerate the list of people you're FOSing? Maybe it'll serve to, as you put it, "do something scummy so [you] can vote to lynch".
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Post by Greedy Smurf on Aug 7, 2007 18:27:25 GMT -5
Just wanted to check in and apologise for my lack of participation the last few days. I have been battling with a fairly severe case of the flu the last 4 days which knocked me for a bit of a loop. Now of course having taken a couple of sick days off work, I have a ton of catching up to do there, so am unlikely to be able to catch up on the goings on here in Asylum Lane until I get home tonight. I will have a read of the Day 3 thread tonight and see what I can see.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 7, 2007 18:30:19 GMT -5
Heh, serves me right to zip off a drive-by post in between doing other stuff. People who haven't posted at all: * Storyteller0910Mhaye and GreedySmurfs has checked in with one post, but they haven't said anything else otherwise. The votes on MadtheSwine - Yeah, his playstyle is suspicious, and his conspiracy theory stuff is getting distracting (where is he headed with this train of thought anyway?) The vote on Malacandra - Mal didn't just third-vote cowgirl, he also third-voted dnooman! The horror! And apparently yesterday I got bandwagoned for voting Mal--although I'll be the first to admit that my own inability to clarify my position and my sudden and (to everyone else) inexplicable change in playstyle didn't help. But at least JSexton is being consistent, as he voted Malacandra yesterDay. I'm probably going to hold off voting until later, though. So far I feel like I've just been shooting in the dark. (I'm currently looking at the next three on my Revised Suspicion List - GreedySmurf, mhaye, and pygmyrugger.) *Edit* Ah, hi there Greedy, hope you feel better.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Aug 7, 2007 19:10:17 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]WooooOOOOOoOooooOOOOOOooooooooooooo (and other ghostly noises)....[/glow] hockeymonkey ghost voice: Dotchan....you have edited your pooooooooooooost! I smite thee from the Great Beyooooooond! (no editing allowed: where do you think you are the SDMB? )
(OK Idle, I'll try to stop being the Edit Police now.)
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