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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 8:09:16 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 12, 2009 8:09:16 GMT -5
It's actually Hoopy who seems a little opportunistic, or at least not voting based on scum. True (to the latter, not the former). But I've since thought better of it (before I even saw this post). [/color] Mentioned above, although this is a close one for me. I think one of the paul voters may be scum, so I'm casting a weak vote for him.[/quote] I agree with you that there's no doubt scum voting for him. But I'm not one. (And I'm not voting for him any longer.)
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 8:23:19 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 12, 2009 8:23:19 GMT -5
For someone to target Sinjin instead of aubby makes no sense. Really, when you're a townie, and you don't know if your power can hurt or help your cause, don't use it without good reason. If you are compelled to use it, try not to shoot randomly. I agree it was a bad choice, but just don't think she flipped a coin. Neither do I. My point is I disagree with chucara that Sinjin would have been a valid intentional target for anyone who wasn't scum. So she was a forceful presence and got into a tiff with Aubby. Those are null tells at this point. I think brokentree chose Sinjin just because Sinjin was one of the more active players and brokentree was compelled to use her power. I don't think any real rationale entered the picture at all. This is what I meant by "shooting randomly". You only give compulsory powers to powers that can be liabilities for town or are unknown. After all, why would a Doctor (non-paranoid type) or a Detective be compulsory? Any positive power is going to be used regardless. But blockers, vigs, etc. can all be made compulsory to weaken the role. I think wielded correctly, the hammer can be a net postive for town, but only if used correctly. (See my various multi-game rants against town blockers.)
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 8:24:51 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 12, 2009 8:24:51 GMT -5
[Blue] vote 2: Hoopy Frood[/color] Appears to be playing different in this game compared to all other games I've played with him.[/quote] Care to elaborate on how exactly I'm "playing different"?
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 8:30:17 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 12, 2009 8:30:17 GMT -5
You might want to boldface those things, since they aren't counting in the last update which was 6 hours after your post. (Oh, and since I've x-posted with the mod, I unvoted paul and voted myself in the #3 slot.)
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 8:44:25 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Feb 12, 2009 8:44:25 GMT -5
Votes: Player | Vote 1 | Vote 2 | Vote 3 | Hal Briston | paulwhoisaghost | Nanook | Hal Briston | Hoopy Frood | Chucara | shaggy | Hoopy Frood | Kat | paulwhoisaghost | shaggy | Chucara | Nanook | Chucara | shaggy | misterblocky | Natlaw | misterblocky | molefan | KidVermicious | Parzival | Chucara | Natlaw | Hoopy Frood | Pollux Oil | Chucara | Hal Briston | shaggy | crazypunker | paulwhoisaghost | shaggy | Chucara | misterblocky | paulwhoisaghost | shaggy | Natlaw | molefan | Nanook | paulwhoisaghost | KidVermicious | peekercpa | paulwhoisaghost | Chucara | peekercpa | roxis | paulwhoisaghost | shaggy | Nanook | shaggy | misterblocky | Hoopy Frood | shaggy |
Totals: Votee | Total | Voters (#1) | Voters (#2) | Voters (#3) | paulwhoisaghost | 20 (20) | Hal Briston, Kat, crazypunker, misterblocky, peekercpa, roxis | molefan | | Chucara | 16 (16) | Hoopy Frood, Nanook, Parzival, Pollux Oil | peekercpa | Kat, crazypunker | shaggy | 14 (14) | | Hoopy Frood, Kat, Nanook, crazypunker, misterblocky, roxis | Pollux Oil, shaggy | misterblocky | 7 (7) | Natlaw, shaggy | | Nanook | Nanook | 6 (6) | molefan | Hal Briston | roxis | Hoopy Frood | 4 (4) | | shaggy | Hoopy Frood, Parzival | Natlaw | 3 (3) | | Parzival | misterblocky | Hal Briston | 3 (3) | | Pollux Oil | Hal Briston | KidVermicious | 2 (2) | | | Natlaw, molefan | molefan | 2 (2) | | Natlaw | | peekercpa | 1 (1) | | | peekercpa |
Not Voting: Chucara, KidVermicious, TDPatriots, paulwhoisaghost
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Chucara
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 8:47:22 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Feb 12, 2009 8:47:22 GMT -5
[Blue] vote 2: Hoopy Frood[/color] Appears to be playing different in this game compared to all other games I've played with him.[/quote] Care to elaborate on how exactly I'm "playing different"?[/quote] - You're usually more engaged in helping town (posting summaries etc.). - You just seem less assertive than usual. It's not much, but when my logic fails me, I fall back to gut feeling. Not really related, but I find this quote funny considering my situation (not that I blame you): Regardless, though, voting you for the actions of your predecessor is a horrible reason (unless those actions are patently scummy, more on that in a bit). You're pinging me more than most people, and thus my vote. Sorry I can't be more specific, but if I had to put down concrete evidence for everything, I wouldn't be able to vote for anyone. Now, I'm not in an easy place here. I would've preferred not to claim, but I'm in a tight place due to aubby's weird vote. But if it was a scum vote, it must be the most obvious, stupid vote I've seen in all games I've played.
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 9:19:21 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 12, 2009 9:19:21 GMT -5
Now, I'm not in an easy place here. I would've preferred not to claim, but I'm in a tight place due to aubby's weird vote. But if it was a scum vote, it must be the most obvious, stupid vote I've seen in all games I've played. But it really wasn't all that obvious. I didn't think much of it until the second Day and it wasn't so much the original vote itself that was that bad. Had there been a good reason, it wouldn't have mattered. And even with the bad reason, it wouldn't have been that scummy (bad strategy is a null tell). It was really the reason aubby put Ed on the list when she revoted that dripped with scummitude. I can't even see that being a case of bad strategy. You don't give someone only an hour to respond to a query before using that query as rationale to vote for them. She made a conscious choice to ask Ed something, and then gave him no time to answer. That's not a mistake, that's an intentional thing. And there is no pro-town reason to do so since we weren't even in a countdown yet. She wasn't under any pressure to get a quick vote off, so why did she? For me there's only one way I can understand her doing this, and that's if she had already determined to vote Ed in order to cover her tracks as being the only one to vote two masons, and the question was simply to provide some cover. She was nervous, so she panicked, and the mistake she made was not realizing that an hour window was not a window at all. Someone who really wanted an answer, wouldn't have made that mistake.
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 9:25:43 GMT -5
Post by Hal Briston on Feb 12, 2009 9:25:43 GMT -5
Ok, let's get this finalized. Let's clean-slate this one: Unvote all
Ok, #1 isn't changing. His acceptance post makes it tempting to switch, but if we assume he's non-town then that's the point of making a post like that, isn't it? I'm going to stay on that assumption. Vote 1: paulwhoisaghost
Nanook has explained himself, and I'm willing to go along with his claim. So, in his place goes yesterday's #2. I voted Aubby because her posts read very much like scum in over their head. No reason to think anything has changed (besides the person in that role). Vote 2: Chucara
I'm a little concerned that shaggy is being railroaded -- I mean, if you happened to be completely unaware of the blockey/kerfuffle connection, then yeah, I could see blockey's reaction being worthy of an eyebrow raising. However, as blockey pointed out, it's almost an insult that shaggy thought scum would be so over-the-top in slipping up. Vote 3: shaggy
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Chucara
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 9:35:58 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Feb 12, 2009 9:35:58 GMT -5
Now, I'm not in an easy place here. I would've preferred not to claim, but I'm in a tight place due to aubby's weird vote. But if it was a scum vote, it must be the most obvious, stupid vote I've seen in all games I've played. But it really wasn't all that obvious. I didn't think much of it until the second Day and it wasn't so much the original vote itself that was that bad. Had there been a good reason, it wouldn't have mattered. And even with the bad reason, it wouldn't have been that scummy (bad strategy is a null tell). It was really the reason aubby put Ed on the list when she revoted that dripped with scummitude. I can't even see that being a case of bad strategy. You don't give someone only an hour to respond to a query before using that query as rationale to vote for them. She made a conscious choice to ask Ed something, and then gave him no time to answer. That's not a mistake, that's an intentional thing. And there is no pro-town reason to do so since we weren't even in a countdown yet. She wasn't under any pressure to get a quick vote off, so why did she? For me there's only one way I can understand her doing this, and that's if she had already determined to vote Ed in order to cover her tracks as being the only one to vote two masons, and the question was simply to provide some cover. She was nervous, so she panicked, and the mistake she made was not realizing that an hour window was not a window at all. Someone who really wanted an answer, wouldn't have made that mistake. I agree, and I might have voted for me if I didn't know I was town. I'm as puzzled as to her motives as you are, I'm just trying to help town by saving my own hide, even though it is against the current. I had hoped my claim would've at least calmed some of the skeptics, but apparently not so far.
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 9:43:16 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Feb 12, 2009 9:43:16 GMT -5
Votes: Player | Vote 1 | Vote 2 | Vote 3 | Hal Briston | paulwhoisaghost | Chucara | shaggy | Hoopy Frood | Chucara | shaggy | Hoopy Frood | Kat | paulwhoisaghost | shaggy | Chucara | Nanook | Chucara | shaggy | misterblocky | Natlaw | misterblocky | molefan | KidVermicious | Parzival | Chucara | Natlaw | Hoopy Frood | Pollux Oil | Chucara | Hal Briston | shaggy | crazypunker | paulwhoisaghost | shaggy | Chucara | misterblocky | paulwhoisaghost | shaggy | Natlaw | molefan | Nanook | paulwhoisaghost | KidVermicious | peekercpa | paulwhoisaghost | Chucara | peekercpa | roxis | paulwhoisaghost | shaggy | Nanook | shaggy | misterblocky | Hoopy Frood | shaggy |
Totals: Votee | Total | Voters (#1) | Voters (#2) | Voters (#3) | paulwhoisaghost | 20 (20) | Hal Briston, Kat, crazypunker, misterblocky, peekercpa, roxis | molefan | | Chucara | 18 (18) | Hoopy Frood, Nanook, Parzival, Pollux Oil | Hal Briston, peekercpa | Kat, crazypunker | shaggy | 15 (15) | | Hoopy Frood, Kat, Nanook, crazypunker, misterblocky, roxis | Hal Briston, Pollux Oil, shaggy | misterblocky | 7 (7) | Natlaw, shaggy | | Nanook | Nanook | 4 (4) | molefan | | roxis | Hoopy Frood | 4 (4) | | shaggy | Hoopy Frood, Parzival | Natlaw | 3 (3) | | Parzival | misterblocky | Hal Briston | 2 (2) | | Pollux Oil | | molefan | 2 (2) | | Natlaw | | KidVermicious | 2 (2) | | | Natlaw, molefan | peekercpa | 1 (1) | | | peekercpa |
Not Voting: Chucara, KidVermicious, TDPatriots, paulwhoisaghost
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 10:35:41 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 12, 2009 10:35:41 GMT -5
Well, Paul, that is a stinky role to get. Also, it would be an easy pm to change the wording from just scum to town. I don't get how the timing of the sub is metagamy bad. [colorblue]Vote 1: Paul Vote 2: Chucara Vote 3: me[/color][/b] The last one is a placeholder.[/quote] You're voting him #1 because he had a bad role and he could easily change his PM from scum to town? That's it? And you put him above chucara? What's your reason for voting chucara? Did he look at you funny? unvote me
vote peekercpaFor not having much substance in the reasoning for his votes.
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 10:37:18 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 12, 2009 10:37:18 GMT -5
NETA: That should be for the number 3 slot.
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Chucara
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 10:55:19 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Feb 12, 2009 10:55:19 GMT -5
Should I pop to the top before deadline, I'd look at Hoopy. His playstyle this game is pinging me like crazy right now. He seems awfully keen on killing me..
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 11:09:45 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Feb 12, 2009 11:09:45 GMT -5
Okay the sub thing. Brokentree is now the second person who folded the instant any degree of pressure was placed, and asked for a sub. It's annoying, it throws off all of the reads, and it hurts town. I do give some leniency and give the person taking over a role a day or two to clear the air, but I only do it once. When two people do so in quick succession there's just too much noise. I'm pretty sure brokentree subbed out of both the games she was in (this one and the one on Facebook). So unless she happened to fold under pressure in both games at the same time....yeah. I really don't like this reasoning.
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Natlaw
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 11:23:09 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Feb 12, 2009 11:23:09 GMT -5
I think we get some time left (3/4 day, or half a day if the countdown starts).
Chucara, this is you complete PM? Blocking three or more people would be overpowered at Night, but perhaps there aren't many Day powers to compensate for that. It is not another mistake from pedescribe and should be Night, right?
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Chucara
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 11:36:50 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Feb 12, 2009 11:36:50 GMT -5
I think we get some time left (3/4 day, or half a day if the countdown starts). Chucara, this is you complete PM? Blocking three or more people would be overpowered at Night, but perhaps there aren't many Day powers to compensate for that. It is not another mistake from pedescribe and should be Night, right? I read it as night, so I hadn't really considered it. If I'm still alive tomorrow, I'll ask.. That was the second role PM I got.. The first was: pedescribe forgot to add my alignment in the first post, so I got the second one..
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Natlaw
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 11:42:49 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Feb 12, 2009 11:42:49 GMT -5
I read it as night, so I hadn't really considered it. If I'm still alive tomorrow, I'll ask.. Considering the vote count is quite close, better PM pede now. And if it is a Day action, you should at least consider using it Today ><.
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Chucara
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 11:53:07 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Feb 12, 2009 11:53:07 GMT -5
Natlaw: Sure.. I've asked.. I can't use my power as it is a night actions and I'm trapped in the egg..
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 12:32:46 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Feb 12, 2009 12:32:46 GMT -5
So the only people not voting right now are Chucaraubby and Paulwhoisabrokentree, both of which have been made unable to vote for some reason, KidV who said he would be out this week and wouldn't be able to vote...and tdpatriots, who also didn't vote yesterDay.
TDpats, you got something to tell us? Is there a reason you aren't voting...again?
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Chucara
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 12:49:51 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Feb 12, 2009 12:49:51 GMT -5
Natlaw: It was supposed to say night.
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Parzival
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 12:51:53 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on Feb 12, 2009 12:51:53 GMT -5
Hoopy, my third vote is staying where it is, since I still find it a bit suspicious. Removing your bad vote is commendable, but there's also the slight chance that if you're scum, this was done as a result of conferring with others.
Although I have half a mind to put a vote on tdpatriots for not voting yet.
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 12:59:59 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 12, 2009 12:59:59 GMT -5
Hoopy, my third vote is staying where it is, since I still find it a bit suspicious. Removing your bad vote is commendable, but there's also the slight chance that if you're scum, this was done as a result of conferring with others. Fair enough. Nothing I can do at this point to change your mind. And in your position, I'd probably do the same. My original vote was bad reasoning. And it could be argued to have both pro-scum motivation and pro-town motivation behind it. And my unvote is the same. So I actually view your vote for me as a townie-leaning tell.
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 13:05:56 GMT -5
Post by Mister Blockey on Feb 12, 2009 13:05:56 GMT -5
So the only people not voting right now are Chucaraubby and Paulwhoisabrokentree, both of which have been made unable to vote for some reason, KidV who said he would be out this week and wouldn't be able to vote...and tdpatriots, who also didn't vote yesterDay. TDpats, you got something to tell us? Is there a reason you aren't voting... again? I didn't know this. Therefore since I stand by my threshold of one, and because I gotta say that I see the argument that aubby was acting scummier than brokentree: Unvote 1 PaulwhoisabrokentreeVote 1 Chucaraubby
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 13:07:08 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 12, 2009 13:07:08 GMT -5
Should I pop to the top before deadline, I'd look at Hoopy. His playstyle this game is pinging me like crazy right now. He seems awfully keen on killing me.. How am I any more keen on killing you than anyone else who's voted you first place? My vote counts for the same three points each of theirs do. I more keen on stopping the paul lynch, 'cause I don't think it's a good choice. I think you're a better choice than him. But really, I haven't been going around saying "everyone vote for chucara, he's clearly scum". I'd be fine with people voting others or having better reasons for voting paul.
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 13:08:49 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Feb 12, 2009 13:08:49 GMT -5
Votes: Player | Vote 1 | Vote 2 | Vote 3 | Hal Briston | paulwhoisaghost | Chucara | shaggy | Hoopy Frood | Chucara | shaggy | peekercpa | Kat | paulwhoisaghost | shaggy | Chucara | Nanook | Chucara | shaggy | misterblocky | Natlaw | misterblocky | molefan | KidVermicious | Parzival | Chucara | Natlaw | Hoopy Frood | Pollux Oil | Chucara | Hal Briston | shaggy | crazypunker | paulwhoisaghost | shaggy | Chucara | misterblocky | Chucara | shaggy | Natlaw | molefan | Nanook | paulwhoisaghost | KidVermicious | peekercpa | paulwhoisaghost | Chucara | peekercpa | roxis | paulwhoisaghost | shaggy | Nanook | shaggy | misterblocky | Hoopy Frood | shaggy |
Totals: Votee | Total | Voters (#1) | Voters (#2) | Voters (#3) | Chucara | 21 (21) | Hoopy Frood, Nanook, Parzival, Pollux Oil, misterblocky | Hal Briston, peekercpa | Kat, crazypunker | paulwhoisaghost | 17 (17) | Hal Briston, Kat, crazypunker, peekercpa, roxis | molefan | | shaggy | 15 (15) | | Hoopy Frood, Kat, Nanook, crazypunker, misterblocky, roxis | Hal Briston, Pollux Oil, shaggy | misterblocky | 7 (7) | Natlaw, shaggy | | Nanook | Nanook | 4 (4) | molefan | | roxis | Hoopy Frood | 3 (3) | | shaggy | Parzival | Natlaw | 3 (3) | | Parzival | misterblocky | Hal Briston | 2 (2) | | Pollux Oil | | molefan | 2 (2) | | Natlaw | | peekercpa | 2 (2) | | | Hoopy Frood, peekercpa | KidVermicious | 2 (2) | | | Natlaw, molefan |
Not Voting: Chucara, KidVermicious, TDPatriots, paulwhoisaghost --FCOD
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Chucara
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 13:22:28 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Feb 12, 2009 13:22:28 GMT -5
Well.. that was a crappy and short game for me. I've claimed roleblocker (with the ability to block targets as well =? doc) and gone uncountered, I really don't know what else to do. My top suspects are Hoopy, paulwhoisaghost and Parzival, but I have little else to hold it in.
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Gir!
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 13:55:50 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Feb 12, 2009 13:55:50 GMT -5
Make up your mind, Chucara. Are you suspicious of Parzival or not? If you are, go ahead and explain why.
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Chucara
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 14:23:17 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Feb 12, 2009 14:23:17 GMT -5
Kat: I am, to a lesser extent.. Mostly gut feeling, mafia is not an exact science.
I really think you're making a mistake here.. I just asked pedescribe and I found out that I am able to not only block scum, but also block scum kills (if my target is targetted).
My power is confirmable (targets will know they're blocked) and I have a hard time seeing how it could be anti-town. I once again urge you to reconsider your votes.
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Natlaw
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 14:44:53 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Feb 12, 2009 14:44:53 GMT -5
I actually don't see big chance someone would be able to counter claim you Chucara. You claim to have effectively three times the power sinjin had, except it is at Day block/protect instead of a Night one. A Night multi block would have been really suspicious.
The only confirmed Day power is Zeriel being a weak Day vigilante. roxis has a Day power of swapping pokémon. There could be SCUM Day actions or it could be intended as a protection against town friendly fire at Day. But I'm leaning to it being a SCUM power to disrupt town Day actions.
Did aubby sing Night One and PM'ed reasons for it or not? Or was it blocked by the egg (usually both actions go through, but with your power taking affect the next Day it could be different). If we let you sing Tonight, it only confirm your power, not alignment.
I do think Hoopy Frood posted a good analysis of why aubby's voting was scummy.
unvote molefan unvote KidV
Double vote for Chucara Single vote for molefan1981 I'm keeping my first vote for misterblockey since his only one substitute rule just is weird. Why not vote for both substitutes if you find them both suspicious?
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Day 3
Feb 12, 2009 15:12:04 GMT -5
Post by Mister Blockey on Feb 12, 2009 15:12:04 GMT -5
My one substitute rule is simple. Having a new player take over a role in game creates a lot of confusion and noise. Having two do it compounds that noise and limits discussion further.
I understand that real life can interfere and that it's not the new players fault that they're subbing in, however I'm only willing to deal with so much noise, especially when both players who subbed out were under suspicion.
Therefore I can back up a little to try and get a read on a new person, but I'm only willing to do this for one person, because if I keep having to back up and get reads I end up walking in place.
Since I'm willing to give one person the benefit of the doubt for a day or two, why the bloody hell would I still be voting for them. That would actually be doing something weird. Saying I'm giving someone the benefit of the doubt for a day or two and then voting for them.
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