Total Ullz
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You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 15:43:14 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on May 7, 2009 15:43:14 GMT -5
I don't think there are only two groupies. We only know of two groupies. Not the same thing. Both have indicated that they know the total number of groupies, but are not sharing that information at this time. Their not sharing indicates to me that the number is not 2. But it's supposed to work like a chain, right? And #1 knew # 2 Plus #2 knew #1 That doesn't seem to leave must room for more groupies... Unless all knows all - but that not how I read it.
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 15:47:45 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 7, 2009 15:47:45 GMT -5
I don't think there are only two groupies. We only know of two groupies. Not the same thing. Both have indicated that they know the total number of groupies, but are not sharing that information at this time. Their not sharing indicates to me that the number is not 2. But it's supposed to work like a chain, right? And #1 knew # 2 Plus #2 knew #1 That doesn't seem to leave must room for more groupies... Unless all knows all - but that not how I read it. That's a really interesting point. How would groupie #3 (and I assume that there is a groupie #3 based on the color) fit into that scenario?
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 15:51:25 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 7, 2009 15:51:25 GMT -5
Also, it doesn't make a lick of sense to have those roles set up that way if there are only two groupies.
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 15:51:28 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on May 7, 2009 15:51:28 GMT -5
As for the lack of kills, I would guess I was the target. (I have no way of knowing.) I do not think there's any value of a pro-Town killer revealing that they tried and failed to kill me. Scum killers are welcome to go public though. Nor was I recruited, although I would say that even if I had been. ;D Many possibilities: - I doubt scum targeted Pleonast. That would just be crazy stupid. - It's possible a Vig targeted Pleonast and failed, - It is also possible that a Vig decided not to target Pleonast. - It is also also possible that a Vig does not exist. - I think it more probable that scum tried to kill one of the investigators and failed. - Someone also mentioned the possibility of recruitment, which is also possible, but I have my doubts due to the "game mechanism that some might consider to be recruitment" phrasing. If scum explicitly choose someone to recruit in lieu of killing, then I would call that flat out recruitment, not something some might consider recruitment. - I think it is most likely that we have a protective role and that role succeeded in protecting.
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 15:56:08 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on May 7, 2009 15:56:08 GMT -5
Well, *I* think it is quite elegant to create a chain, but that isn't what we have here. I don't know what is going on, but if there really were only 2 groupies, I would have expected Pollux and Almost Human to have stated so. I don't see the benefit of there being only two and Pollux and Almost Human keeping secret that there are two. But that's just me.
I posit that there are four groupies and #3 and #4 know each other. That is at least symmetric. But it really could be anything. The only thing I'm pretty sure of is that there are more than 2.
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 16:13:08 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on May 7, 2009 16:13:08 GMT -5
We need to lynch me ToDay. But we'll get nothing useful out that lynch vote because both Town and scum have reasons to want to lynch me. So here's my plan. Come next Monday, everyone switch their votes to me. Before then, vote for your next choice. Yeah, we all know that we're not going through with that, but it will give us something to talk about. I have an idea. How about I vote for my first choice, and then not change my vote to you? I think that's a splendid idea. Until you give us your full role and your full PM so we know exactly why we're lynching you toDay, I'm not going to vote for you and I don't think anybody else should. If you're set on dying toDay anyway, I see no reason to not know everything about your role. Well, *I* think it is quite elegant to create a chain, but that isn't what we have here. I don't know what is going on, but if there really were only 2 groupies, I would have expected Pollux and Almost Human to have stated so. I don't see the benefit of there being only two and Pollux and Almost Human keeping secret that there are two. But that's just me. There are definitely more than 2 groupies. I wasn't contacted by any of the unknown groupies and I'm interested to know if Almost Human was.
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Total Ullz
Administrator
You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 16:33:02 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on May 7, 2009 16:33:02 GMT -5
There are definitely more than 2 groupies. I wasn't contacted by any of the unknown groupies and I'm interested to know if Almost Human was. So color is just color. I get that - just a bit weird that we have to anchor (as in the movie) and now - what - 4? groupies? I'm going back to playing mafia. It was fun getting to see the movie -but I fail to see if that will do anything but add even more WiFoM right now.
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 16:42:16 GMT -5
Post by Almost Human on May 7, 2009 16:42:16 GMT -5
<font style="font-size: 12px;">There are definitely more than 2 groupies. I wasn't contacted by any of the unknown groupies and I'm interested to know if Almost Human was. I can confirm there are more than two. I wasn't contacted either. I'm not sure whether that's what would happen anyway. <font style="font-size: 12px;"> There are definitely more than 2 groupies. I wasn't contacted by any of the unknown groupies and I'm interested to know if Almost Human was.So color is just color. I get that - just a bit weird that we have to anchor (as in the movie) and now - what - 4? groupies? I'm going back to playing mafia. It was fun getting to see the movie -but I fail to see if that will do anything but add even more WiFoM right now. Neither Pollux nor I have said how many groupies there are. It's fun watching everyone guess but as I can't see a reason to announce the number, that's all it's going to be for the time being. And yay - no dead people!
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Total Ullz
Administrator
You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
Posts: 2,029
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 17:02:12 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on May 7, 2009 17:02:12 GMT -5
Neither Pollux nor I have said how many groupies there are. It's fun watching everyone guess but as I can't see a reason to announce the number, that's all it's going to be for the time being. And yay - no dead people! I wasn't asking for you to.
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Gir!
FGM
EVIL Demon Goddess Mod
What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 18:31:45 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on May 7, 2009 18:31:45 GMT -5
- I think it is most likely that we have a protective role and that role succeeded in protecting. Another possibility is that we have a roleblocker and the scum kill got blocked. (I couldn't come up with a character who would fit with a roleblocker, though.) But, if we do have a blocker, they might want to do some research on whoever they blocked, and see if anything interesting comes up in that player's posts.
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 19:14:22 GMT -5
Post by MiteyMouse on May 7, 2009 19:14:22 GMT -5
Hi everyone! That is a pleasant turn of events...the lack of death I mean.
I once played in a game where the Scum did not have the ability to kill at Night. I just thought that I'd throw that into the possibilities of why there was not a kill last Night.
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 20:05:10 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on May 7, 2009 20:05:10 GMT -5
Hi everyone! That is a pleasant turn of events...the lack of death I mean. I once played in a game where the Scum did not have the ability to kill at Night. I just thought that I'd throw that into the possibilities of why there was not a kill last Night. That's all you have to say? Nothing about groupies, anchors, Pleo, anything? Hey sachertorte, Pleo what to play three handed?
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 20:15:45 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on May 7, 2009 20:15:45 GMT -5
NETA: what = want. Thoughts about groupies: Three in canon, two so far who know each other but don't know the other/s. Both say not one contacted you? Does that bother you? Were you expecting to be contacted? Why or why not? Detectives: One has results the other doesn't, does that make sense given your ruleset. Note I'm not asking you to spell out your rule set just asking if you think it makes sense. You think you're on the same team because of how your power works. Is it possible to see it working even if the other guy is not of your alignment or is it right out impossible? Everybody, are you up for a Pleo Lynch today? Indicate by voting in purple: vote PleoAnybody else pinging you? story, MHaye, KidV, Mighty, Kat, IS, zlw, Ed anything? ? Names just off the top of my head, if I left you out it's unintentional.
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 20:42:00 GMT -5
Post by zlw on May 7, 2009 20:42:00 GMT -5
I'm just the pretty co-anchor woman. (Thanks again FCoH) and I was pretty sure we would get different results, our first "power" option was most likely different, mine being one and his being another. As I said last Night pretty sure option 2 is the same, but option 1 isn't.
And I would be willing to
vote Pleo
Unless a better target appears, as for pinging me, that would be NAF but it's hardly anything to even smudge him for to be honest I think you all call it "meta gaming"
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 20:44:45 GMT -5
Post by MiteyMouse on May 7, 2009 20:44:45 GMT -5
A lot of people claimed on Day 1...I'm almost shocked by the amount of claims.
With the groupies, I'm pretty confused. Could the recruiting that was mentioned by FCOD in the initial rules be the groupies recruiting each other? Or someone recruiting them?
I'm still not sure what to make of PLEO's claim. It was really early and it could have had pro-Town motivations or it could have been a shout out to whoever is trying to possibly recruit him.
I'm going to have to do a reread of Day 1 and catch myself up...we have a few days and I have the weekend off. I'll sit down and plug through it on Saturday if I don't get to before...I'm sorry everyone.
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 20:59:36 GMT -5
Post by zlw on May 7, 2009 20:59:36 GMT -5
NETA for the rest of your question, if we didn't have option 2 it would surely be possible for me or him to be scum.
This shouldn't ruin anything but if so kick me in the shins. But it specifically says my co-anchor is out there, I am one half of the towns news team. And I'll need my co-anchor to maximize my potential.
In short I see no way without drastically hurting town to have either me or my co-anchor as scum. But there is a way to put this to rest I think, if you trust Inner Stickler is town it will take up the Night but worth it if we can get some confirmation. And then we can start using option 2 based on someone or another IS is comfortable with.
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 21:11:24 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on May 7, 2009 21:11:24 GMT -5
Three in canon, two so far who know each other but don't know the other/s. Both say not one contacted you? Does that bother you? Were you expecting to be contacted? Why or why not? I wasn't expecting to be contacted, per se, but it was a possibility I thought about, that one of the groupies had the power to confirm alignment through a handshake type power at Night. Kind of like how the Freemasons worked in Pleonast's Conspiracy games. Refuses to Vote Pleo until he gives us a full claim so we can all judge for ourselves how dangerous he supposedly is, and reserves the right to still possibly doubt the claim if it looks fishy.
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 22:47:33 GMT -5
Post by special on May 7, 2009 22:47:33 GMT -5
special ed: Based on previous games I played with him, I really expected more posts from him (I'll admit it partly meta-game as I'm following the mafia game on the SDMB where he's active as well). You expect more posts from me? go here: click en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random. Then repeat. A lot.
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 23:00:04 GMT -5
Post by special on May 7, 2009 23:00:04 GMT -5
I have posted significantly less. In part because I've been throwing magic bags all over the place in the games I'm alive in on SDMB and Giraffe. Added to that the end of the School year crap and paperwork we have to do, and the fact that this site is blocked at work because our filter scans the pages and decides it's pornographic. (to be fair, that happened to the sign p thread of the Total/Tabby game on Giraffe too.
In any case, you guys are also much better players than the ones in those games. I don't have as much to add or as much to get upset by.
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Day Two
May 7, 2009 23:57:13 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on May 7, 2009 23:57:13 GMT -5
Detectives: One has results the other doesn't, does that make sense given your ruleset. Note I'm not asking you to spell out your rule set just asking if you think it makes sense. You think you're on the same team because of how your power works. Is it possible to see it working even if the other guy is not of your alignment or is it right out impossible? Yes, it would work if we were different alignments but the likelihood of it happening would be much lower. Another possibility is that we have a roleblocker and the scum kill got blocked. (I couldn't come up with a character who would fit with a roleblocker, though.) That would imply that there is a specific scum that must send in the kill, right? Like a Godfather role. The other option that occurred to me is that they targeted a bulletproof townie. That's the only reason they'd have had a strongman on their side, as far as I know. I once played in a game where the Scum did not have the ability to kill at Night. I just thought that I'd throw that into the possibilities of why there was not a kill last Night. [oog]How did the scum kill then?[/oog]
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Post by storyteller0910 on May 8, 2009 6:56:45 GMT -5
I strongly agree with Pollux Oil. Pleonast has been so cryptic with the information he has shared that I am very uncomfortable with the idea of lynching him when he asks for it. I join in the (small) chorus of requests for a more substantive claim.
For the rest, I must dedicate myself to the ample task of reading all of Day One and making up for being so terribly, terribly behind. More later.
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Post by storyteller0910 on May 8, 2009 7:29:20 GMT -5
DAY ONE SUMMARY, PART THE FIRST (PAGES 1-4)
zlw makes the first vote for Sister Coyote right off the bat (#2). If zlw is Scum, this is a really ballsy play.
Am bothered early by Pleonast’s post #10, thus:
This follows immediately after his partial claim, in which he mentions that he is partially immune to Night kills, but not the mechanism by which he is immune. Now here’s a question, possibly phrased badly: why not reveal the mechanism, and make himself vulnerable to Night kills? Based on what Pleo has told us (and assuming Pleo has been truthful), the Scum killing Pleo would solve a lot of our problems, right? We don’t waste a lynch on a Townie, the Scum waste a kill on a player who evidently has no real powers. We get confirmation of Pleo’s role.
Let’s face it: Pleo knows full well that the Scum will not try to kill him, even if he reveals his “weakness.” He doesn’t want to reveal his kryptonite in order to balk the only person who would try to Night kill him: a Pro-Town killer. And that makes me worried. Perhaps Pleo is a Jester, similar to the one in pedescribe’s T2 game, that can recruit if lynched early in the game. Not sure what we can do about it, though. On balance, though, I am nearly sure that Pleonast is lying about something here.
Pleonast at #25:
Pleonast has claimed that he was on the Town side, in post #25. Why would an investigator get a non-Town return on him?
Anyway...
Paul votes for Sister Coyote in response to her vote for Pollux Oil in response to his vote. Not really a tell one way or another. I think it exceedingly unlikely that both zlw and Paul are Scum together, though.
At #70, Inner Sticker FoSes, but does not vote for Paul:
This bothers me. It’s a sort of passive defense of Coyote, isn’t it? Stickler doesn’t really say anything against Paul’s case, just says “well, you did it, too,” without acknowledging the substance of it. But of course, Stickler doesn’t actually VOTE for Paul, thus making the defense look less substantial than it otherwise might.
In light of Coyote’s alignment, this is an interesting post. Compare with NAF’s vote (for Paul) at #92, which is basically similar to Stickler’s post but with an actual vote to make it more substantial. Note how, at #102, Paul responds to NAF - because NAF voted - but never really notices Stickler’s weaker admonition.
Stickler comes out of this looking slightly scummy to me.
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And that’s where we land after one-third of Day One. More from me later, but in the meanwhile:
vote Inner Stickler
Just want to get it on the record. This is subject to change as I work through the second and third parts of Day One and learn more, but something about that defense post at #70 rubbed me seriously the wrong way.
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Post by sachertorte on May 8, 2009 8:12:06 GMT -5
Hey sachertorte, Pleo what to play three handed? Is this relevant to this game? If not, no thank you.
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Post by sachertorte on May 8, 2009 8:15:34 GMT -5
Refuses to Vote Pleo until he gives us a full claim so we can all judge for ourselves how dangerous he supposedly is, and reserves the right to still possibly doubt the claim if it looks fishy. I'm so confused by this. So we have a game where getting killed generally hurts your team, and you are suspicious of someone who is asking to get killed? What's the logic? Say killing Pleonast results in something bad happening to the Town, how is this to be avoided? If Pleonast is anti-Town and killing him creates an anti-Town effect, then what are we to do? We have to kill him at some point right? We already tried to give a night killer the opportunity and that didn't work out, so what do you propose? Why do you not want to kill Pleonast? And if we don't kill Pleonast, what do you think we should do with him. I don't get it.
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Post by The Real FCOD on May 8, 2009 8:16:31 GMT -5
Vote count:
Inner Stickler (1) - Storyteller
--FCOD
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Post by sinjin on May 8, 2009 8:24:09 GMT -5
Hey sachertorte, Pleo what to play three handed? Is this relevant to this game? If not, no thank you. It was sarcasm.
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Day Two
May 8, 2009 10:33:40 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 8, 2009 10:33:40 GMT -5
Until you give us your full role and your full PM so we know exactly why we're lynching you toDay, I'm not going to vote for you and I don't think anybody else should. If you're set on dying toDay anyway, I see no reason to not know everything about your role. * And Story said: I don't get it, what do you guys think might happen if we lynch Pleo toDay? sinjin re the three handed comment: You said it was sarcasm, what did you mean? *I miss multi quote that works. You have no idea how much I miss it.
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Day Two
May 8, 2009 10:36:03 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on May 8, 2009 10:36:03 GMT -5
I'm not going to make a full claim until my lynch is inevitable. The Town has nothing to gain by me revealing before then. Either lynch me or not, I claimed as early as possible to avoid too-long discussion about me.
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Day Two
May 8, 2009 11:16:30 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on May 8, 2009 11:16:30 GMT -5
I don't get it, what do you guys think might happen if we lynch Pleo toDay? Well, just off the top of my head: 1. Pleo could be a recruiting Scum Jester - if he gets lynched, he gets to recruit one player that voted for him. Like the T2 game. 2. Pleo could be a Bomb. Immune to Night kills, has a set life expectancy. Maybe if he's still alive at the end of, say, Day Three, he dies, but if he can get himself lynched, he gets to take someone with him. But those are just two options and I'm not even using my imagination much here. The fact remains: Pleonast is being obstructionist, there are internal inconsistencies in the things he has said to us, and nothing he's done so far has been pro-Town. I suspect that he is not on our side, and he has done everything possible to convince us to lynch him. Why should we? Think about it. What is gained by lynching him now? He's right out in the open. If in two or three or four Days he's still hanging around, and no better information has surfaced, we whack him then, if we want. The Scum are not going to kill him and are unlikely, at this point, to recruit him. Bottom line: If he's telling the truth, there is no reason to lynch him right now.But if he's lying, then he has a plan, and while I don't know what the plan is, playing into it doesn't seem like the best move.
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Day Two
May 8, 2009 11:38:35 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 8, 2009 11:38:35 GMT -5
Bottom line: If he's telling the truth, there is no reason to lynch him right now.But if he's lying, then he has a plan, and while I don't know what the plan is, playing into it doesn't seem like the best move.I get all that. I and I totally understand the parinoia but...what do we do with him then? If we decide that we don't want to lynch him it is because we think he is playing against us. Do we all just decide to ignore him for the rest of the game and hope that allowing him to survive to endgame is a good idea? I am not sure what our other option is. In any case it seems better to remove him early so we are able to recover from any damage he might be able to do to us more easily, than to wait to deal with it until we have no room to make a mistake.
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