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Day Two
May 11, 2009 0:10:47 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on May 11, 2009 0:10:47 GMT -5
Screw it. Pleonast should die. If he's scum, great, if he's town, he's really sucking and we're clearly not going to get anything done if he's still alive.
Vote: Pleonast
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Total Ullz
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 5:49:26 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on May 11, 2009 5:49:26 GMT -5
Screw it. Pleonast should die. If he's scum, great, if he's town, he's really sucking and we're clearly not going to get anything done if he's still alive. Vote: Pleonast [/color][/quote] Looks like this is what a lof of players feel. Fine - but let's then consider the suggestion that he might be some sort of bomb and might have some power to deal with those that vote for him. So it might be best to not place any more votes on him for now... Personally I would have liked to have waited a Day or two - to see if we could figure it out before lynching him. But it seems like most in this game disagrees with me.
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Merestil Haye
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 7:53:53 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on May 11, 2009 7:53:53 GMT -5
Second reading got interrupted so I could go and get killed in our every-other-week tabletop D&D game. (This is what happens when you take the back stairs down to the slavelord's lair when the spellcasters are down 50% of their daily spellslots...)
Thinking about Pleonast and his claim first. Pleo claims to fear he may be recruitable, based on an analysis of his PM. This analysis cannot be checked, because the only people who have read his PM are he, FCoH and anyone who FCoH recruited (heh) to review the game roles. It might be wrong - but Pleo won't let us check.
The reasonably foreseeable consequence of this is that, over the last two Days, we've spent a lot of time discussing Pleo's claim. IMO, this was a good thing on Day 1, as it provided us with a nonstale topic of conversation and gave us some insight into possible game setups (although I have to say that I'm not 100% certain that there is only one role that might be recruitable.) However, if allowed to go on too long, we'll (a) talk ourselves in circles, and (b) because we're taling about the same thing over and over, give up a valuable tool in looking for the ELE. Data mining the early game for shifts in position that betray an antiTown role makes it harder for the ELE to hide. (Think of it as a Mafia version of parallax, if you like.) I think I already see signs of topic ossification, and Tomorrow it will be worse.
For this reason above all, I am in favour of Lynching Pleo Today.
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 7:58:02 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on May 11, 2009 7:58:02 GMT -5
Eh. I feel like we're all talking past one another. sach, I'm just going to say that you're arguing against one aspect of the anti-Pleo-lynch argument - what if he's a Scum bomb or there is some other - but not considering the other - that if he's telling the truth, his lynch would be a mis-lynch.
Bottom line, the only two choices if we lynch Pleonast are that we do what Scum wants us to do, or we mislynch, which is ALSO what Scum wants us to do.
So, on balance, a lynch of Pleonast toDay is guaranteed to be pro-Scum, no matter whether Pleo is telling the truth or lying, and I am opposed to things that are guaranteed to be pro-Scum.
However, if we are going to lynch him, I will add my vote to the list as Bomb insurance.
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 8:06:14 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 11, 2009 8:06:14 GMT -5
Day Two's end time is extended two days to May 14th at 3:00pm Eastern time. The night will last up to two days, ending at the latest on Sat, May 16 at 3:00pm Eastern time. If the Day or the Night ends early I'll figure out what happens then.
Vote count:
Pleonast (4) - KidV, Roosh, Natlaw, Inner Stickler MiteyMoust (1) - sinjin
--FCOD
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 8:28:47 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on May 11, 2009 8:28:47 GMT -5
Eh. I feel like we're all talking past one another. sach, I'm just going to say that you're arguing against one aspect of the anti-Pleo-lynch argument - what if he's a Scum bomb or there is some other - but not considering the other - that if he's telling the truth, his lynch would be a mis-lynch. I don't think that's a fair assessment. My most recent post was in direct response to (Pollux?) bringing up the scum bomb possibility as his reason for not wanting to lynch Pleonast. Bottom line, the only two choices if we lynch Pleonast are that we do what Scum wants us to do, or we mislynch, which is ALSO what Scum wants us to do. So, on balance, a lynch of Pleonast toDay is guaranteed to be pro-Scum, no matter whether Pleo is telling the truth or lying, and I am opposed to things that are guaranteed to be pro-Scum. However, if we are going to lynch him, I will add my vote to the list as Bomb insurance. Well, we certainly differ in point of view. I suppose we can assume that if Pleonast is pro-Town then scum want us to lynch him, but we are in a different realm so I'm not 100% sure that is the case. Typically a pro-Town player does not want to get lynched, so if you are going to assume that Pleonast is pro-Town, we are already in atypical waters (Heck, no matter what Pleonast's alignment, we are in atypical waters). In other words, if we assume that Pleonast is pro-Town then I don't think you can discount Pleonast's take on the situation. If Pleonast is pro-Town, then don't you think Pleonast's statement that he wants to be lynched should carry some weight? Isn't it possible that the existence of a pro-Town player that wants to die opens the possibility that Scum DON'T want Pleonast to die?
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 8:29:20 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on May 11, 2009 8:29:20 GMT -5
Pleonast, do you have a post restriction?
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 11:02:58 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on May 11, 2009 11:02:58 GMT -5
I was going to look at YesterDay in more detail, but a release deadline got moved up to this Friday, so I'm going to very busy this week. But a few responses... And I still don't like the fact that he wants us as a Town to lynch him. I'd MUCH rather he have just (if he's playing so fucking selfish) just let himself get smited by the gods by shutting up for two days. No. Intentionally breaking the rules in order to be mod-killed for an advantage is cheating as far as I'm concerned. I didn't even consider that option and I'm disappointed that you think it's acceptable. Pleonast, do you have a post restriction? No, I do not. I'd be complaining bitterly if I did.
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Total Ullz
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 15:16:08 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on May 11, 2009 15:16:08 GMT -5
Hmmm, looks like we "agreed" on a lynch and now we've stop talking.
I'll go with Sinjin for now and say let's here more from the lurkers/people talking but not saying anything:
Vote MiteyMouse
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 15:16:31 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on May 11, 2009 15:16:31 GMT -5
Wow, I was going to do a quick catch-up at lunch time, but no one has posted since I did? I guess that eliminates any complaints that I've used up all the bandwidth.
You know, it's kind of interesting that the conversation has died down. It kind of points to a scum trying to keep the noise level high.
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 15:21:19 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 11, 2009 15:21:19 GMT -5
Vote count:
Pleonast (4) - KidV, Roosh, Natlaw, Inner Stickler MiteyMoust (2) - sinjin, Total Lost
--FCOD
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 16:32:10 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on May 11, 2009 16:32:10 GMT -5
You know, it's kind of interesting that the conversation has died down. It kind of points to a scum trying to keep the noise level high. I don't understand this logic. How could a scum cause the conversation to die down? Isn't the lack of conversation a group effect? Right now Town isn't chattering and I think I know why. As much as we want to have decent conversation, discussion doesn't have much meaning without the threat of lynch. Also, with so many claims Yesterday, I'm not exactly clamoring for more, especially if we are going to wind up lynching Pleonast anyway. Now if we came to a consensus that we were NOT going to lynch Pleonast, then conversation would have more motivation. But I think we are going to lynch Pleonast.
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Total Ullz
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 16:55:35 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on May 11, 2009 16:55:35 GMT -5
Wow, I was going to do a quick catch-up at lunch time, but no one has posted since I did? I guess that eliminates any complaints that I've used up all the bandwidth. You know, it's kind of interesting that the conversation has died down. It kind of points to a scum trying to keep the noise level high. I'm not usually snarky - but I really feel this has more to do with you than scum. We would be talking and getting informations if you would post that PM of yours and let us all read it. We would be talking if you had made that claim and then stopped with all the "I'm not saying more right now" We would be talking if you got out there and looked for scum - and then when we lynched you we would at least know you had been thinking like a Town/Scum/PFK based on your death. Yeah - sorry if it got a bit personally - but I really don't get you in this game at all.
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 17:09:15 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 11, 2009 17:09:15 GMT -5
I am ready to
Vote: Pleonast
We aren't talking about much else.
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 17:51:00 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on May 11, 2009 17:51:00 GMT -5
I am still holding off on switching my vote so that people, especially those that missed there posting minimum yesterDay, can get in their "Five Substantial posts." I am not a fan of mod-killing nor am I a fan of lurking.
Pleo, you haven't posted a single pro-town thought that I can see yet. You chastise us for only talking about you. You chastise us for stopping talking when it appears the consensus is to lynch you today. You, however, have not posted much, if anything, of substance at all. You throw out a blanket statement about scum and noise level with no back-up and no analysis whatsoever. If you are indeed town let us know your thoughts before we lynch you. If you are scum or PFK feel free to roll about in the wifom as much as you want.
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 19:50:10 GMT -5
Post by special on May 11, 2009 19:50:10 GMT -5
OK, we're getting nowhere.
vote Pleo
I've been hoping for some great insight from some of the players who I hold in great respect and awe. The players who always seem to seem to know what to do. But, understandably due to the circumstances, we're not getting that.
And now, it seems like we're mired in a discussion and a potential lynch that might leave us with very little data.
On the positive side, at least we're not likely to lynch a useful power role for the Town, as Pleo wouldn't have set himself up like this were he useful. (I hope).
So, we'll be rid of Pleo and that discussion. We'll have our groupie conundrum. And our duel investigator conundrum.
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 22:01:10 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on May 11, 2009 22:01:10 GMT -5
I've been hoping for some great insight from some of the players who I hold in great respect and awe. The players who always seem to seem to know what to do. But, understandably due to the circumstances, we're not getting that. I vote this the lamest statement ever in a game of mafia.
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 22:27:17 GMT -5
Post by Almost Human on May 11, 2009 22:27:17 GMT -5
I really don't think Pleo's town. I'm sure he's either pfk or scum. Why would pfk or scum want to be lynched if not to acheive their win condition? If he's a standard jester then great - no harm done and his lynch has got that distraction out of the way. But that's best case scenario.
If he were town then he'd have seen the pro town reasons for posting his pm by now surely. If his reason is that he's vulnerable to recruitment during the day then that's no problem as a lynch will take care of that.
And this is Pleo remember! The one player who always points out all the anti town things people do and in this game he's the biggest culprit.
In this game FCOD says there's a mechanism "some might call recruitment". That sounds to me as though it isn't the main part of the game. In other words the primary power of the scum will be to kill as usual.
Which makes me think why would Pleo make that damn claim? If he's town then he can pretty much guarantee scum are going to try and kill him within the first two Nights. They're unlikely to try and recruit him as his very existence past Day 3 would be suspicious to us so what's the point? If he'd just kept quiet they'd have likely wasted a NK on him. As it turned out they wasted one anyway but I doubt he was the target.
So anyway, that was me basically saying I get why you're voting for Pleo today but I'll be looking elsewhere.
It's later than I thought so I'll make my next post tomorrow.
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RoOsh
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 22:31:43 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 11, 2009 22:31:43 GMT -5
I've been hoping for some great insight from some of the players who I hold in great respect and awe. The players who always seem to seem to know what to do. But, understandably due to the circumstances, we're not getting that. Wow. That IS pretty lame. I mean flattery is awesome... but if you want some damn good insight, why don't you ASK for it? Though- I think some good advice and thoughts HAVE been already posted from the start of this game- but I guess i don't know what you're looking for with that "seem to seem to know what to do" statement. What would you like to know, Grasshopper?
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RoOsh
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 22:43:11 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 11, 2009 22:43:11 GMT -5
No. Intentionally breaking the rules in order to be mod-killed for an advantage is cheating as far as I'm concerned. I didn't even consider that option and I'm disappointed that you think it's acceptable. I don't think it's acceptable, but at this point I see NO Pro-Town points to way you've been playing. So forgive me if I'm bitter at your playing style this game- it's been incredibly scummy so far, and very little in the way of actually being helpful. If you're going to be THAT detrimental to the town, then yeah- I'd rather you just go and off yourself, because I HATE your reasoning for doing what you've been doing: the fact that "you think you can win better as a townie and would rather be lynched as a Townie than be recruited" is one of the worse excuses for playing a game I've seen. At this point, I'm just hoping that I'm right and you've got a hidden agenda or something with your role, because to know that you HONESTLY thought from the start of the game that you would rather just die with your role rather than try to play the game that you signed up for because you're trying to maximize your chances of victory [if you're town] AT THE EXPENSE of the Town Is just POOR POOR play. I be angry at any newbie that pulled that stunt, but to see you doing it.... Well, I'd just be disappointed in you and I don't believe that you'd be that selfish. You've got an agenda, and you're def. not playing Pro-Town. So yeah- you deserve to be lynched for sure, but if you're going to take us down, I want to at least try to minimize the damage that you'll inflict. That said, it is telling that of all the comments, questions and queries posed to you over the weekend, the one you choose to answer was the one ridiculous comment to allow yourself the moral high ground. You don't really have anything else to add- just the comment that "oh, no one seems to be talking." I wonder why....
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 23:22:47 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on May 11, 2009 23:22:47 GMT -5
I've been hoping for some great insight from some of the players who I hold in great respect and awe. The players who always seem to seem to know what to do. But, understandably due to the circumstances, we're not getting that. And now, it seems like we're mired in a discussion and a potential lynch that might leave us with very little data. On the positive side, at least we're not likely to lynch a useful power role for the Town, as Pleo wouldn't have set himself up like this were he useful. (I hope). So, we'll be rid of Pleo and that discussion. We'll have our groupie conundrum. And our duel investigator conundrum. Vote snipped. This is a serious pile of handwaving here, and the appeal to experience stinks. I'll be voting for you Tomorrow, barring something else even scummier.
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Day Two
May 11, 2009 23:25:34 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on May 11, 2009 23:25:34 GMT -5
I really don't think Pleo's town. I'm sure he's either pfk or scum. Why would pfk or scum want to be lynched if not to acheive their win condition? If he's a standard jester then great - no harm done and his lynch has got that distraction out of the way. But that's best case scenario. If he were town then he'd have seen the pro town reasons for posting his pm by now surely. If his reason is that he's vulnerable to recruitment during the day then that's no problem as a lynch will take care of that. And this is Pleo remember! The one player who always points out all the anti town things people do and in this game he's the biggest culprit. In this game FCOD says there's a mechanism "some might call recruitment". That sounds to me as though it isn't the main part of the game. In other words the primary power of the scum will be to kill as usual. Which makes me think why would Pleo make that damn claim? If he's town then he can pretty much guarantee scum are going to try and kill him within the first two Nights. They're unlikely to try and recruit him as his very existence past Day 3 would be suspicious to us so what's the point? If he'd just kept quiet they'd have likely wasted a NK on him. As it turned out they wasted one anyway but I doubt he was the target. So anyway, that was me basically saying I get why you're voting for Pleo today but I'll be looking elsewhere. It's later than I thought so I'll make my next post tomorrow. I don't remember if you were around, but I keep thinking back to Pleo's unforced Day One claim in Gastard (his role was Executioner, and he couldn't vote). The data point here is, Pleo is not afraid to claim immediately if he thinks it'll help Town, and he doesn't always have a mainstream opinion on what is helpful and what isn't. He could easily be Town in this situation.
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RoOsh
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Day Two
May 12, 2009 1:50:49 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 12, 2009 1:50:49 GMT -5
The data point here is, Pleo is not afraid to claim immediately if he thinks it'll help Town, and he doesn't always have a mainstream opinion on what is helpful and what isn't. He could easily be Town in this situation. Then at this point he needs to start explaining and talking rather than just saying he's going to clam up w/ his claims and the what not. I think everyone at this point safe to say is leaning towards you, Pleo. Care to talk now or are we still going to have to wait a few more days?
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Day Two
May 12, 2009 6:37:07 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on May 12, 2009 6:37:07 GMT -5
I've been hoping for some great insight from some of the players who I hold in great respect and awe. The players who always seem to seem to know what to do. But, understandably due to the circumstances, we're not getting that. I vote this the lamest statement ever in a game of mafia.[/observing] *snerk* That warrants an exalt. [observing]
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Day Two
May 12, 2009 7:47:28 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 12, 2009 7:47:28 GMT -5
Vote count:
Pleonast (6) - KidV, Roosh, Natlaw, Inner Stickler, NAF1138, Special Ed MiteyMouse (2) - sinjin, Total Lost
--FCOD
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Day Two
May 12, 2009 9:35:25 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on May 12, 2009 9:35:25 GMT -5
I posted comments on everyone back on Day One. Has anyone besides sach posted anything similar? As I stated there, I still think Pollux needs to be lynched. You know, it's kind of interesting that the conversation has died down. It kind of points to a scum trying to keep the noise level high. I don't understand this logic. How could a scum cause the conversation to die down? Isn't the lack of conversation a group effect? I meant that it's been scum that's reignited the conversation about me. If you you want me to be specific, I'd say storyteller and Ro0sh have been trying the most to keep conversation focused only on me. We would be talking if you got out there and looked for scum - and then when we lynched you we would at least know you had been thinking like a Town/Scum/PFK based on your death. No one is stopping you from looking at other players. Pleo, you haven't posted a single pro-town thought that I can see yet. You chastise us for only talking about you. You chastise us for stopping talking when it appears the consensus is to lynch you today. You, however, have not posted much, if anything, of substance at all. You throw out a blanket statement about scum and noise level with no back-up and no analysis whatsoever. If you are indeed town let us know your thoughts before we lynch you. If you are scum or PFK feel free to roll about in the wifom as much as you want. Someone else who doesn't want to take any responsibility in finding scum themselves. I've been hoping for some great insight from some of the players who I hold in great respect and awe. The players who always seem to seem to know what to do. But, understandably due to the circumstances, we're not getting that. This is getting to be a pattern. That said, it is telling that of all the comments, questions and queries posed to you over the weekend, the one you choose to answer was the one ridiculous comment to allow yourself the moral high ground. You don't really have anything else to add- just the comment that "oh, no one seems to be talking." I wonder why.... And look, yet another player who doesn't want to look at anyone but Pleonast. If he were town then he'd have seen the pro town reasons for posting his pm by now surely. If his reason is that he's vulnerable to recruitment during the day then that's no problem as a lynch will take care of that. And this is Pleo remember! The one player who always points out all the anti town things people do and in this game he's the biggest culprit. Disagreement on strategy does not make anti-Town. I don't think it's acceptable, but at this point I see NO Pro-Town points to way you've been playing. How would you play a role vulnerable to recruitment? And if it were also a Miller and not Night-killable? Then at this point he needs to start explaining and talking rather than just saying he's going to clam up w/ his claims and the what not. I've explained already. Go back and read what I wrote. There's nothing to be gained by repeating it.
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Day Two
May 12, 2009 10:37:16 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 12, 2009 10:37:16 GMT -5
The following people need to post more by the end of the Day:
4 zlw 4 Natlaw 3 MiteyMouse 3 Almost Human 2 MHaye 2 Kat! 0 paulwhoisaghost 0 Boozahol Squid, P.I.
--FCOD
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Day Two
May 12, 2009 11:01:57 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 12, 2009 11:01:57 GMT -5
The following people need to post more by the end of the Day: Høøpy Frøød --FCOD I like Hoopy as much as the next guy but...
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Day Two
May 12, 2009 11:06:12 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on May 12, 2009 11:06:12 GMT -5
Well good for you. How about toDay? Your latest post just basically slams all the players who have been active toDay as we try to decide AGAIN toDay what to do about you. Oh, you did whine about your crumby role again as well: Well I certainly wouldn't out myself on the first page of the first day and tell everyone to lynch me then complain when I'm the major topic of conversation and refuse to post my role pm or answer any questions and generally act as squirlly as Billy Bob Thorton. Shoot if you want honesty, I'ld want to be recruited. Scum buddies are fun.
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Day Two
May 12, 2009 11:08:00 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 12, 2009 11:08:00 GMT -5
I like Hoopy as much as the next guy but... I have no idea what you're talking about. --FCOD
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