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Day One
May 22, 2007 13:42:46 GMT -5
Post by Gadarene on May 22, 2007 13:42:46 GMT -5
Sorry for the triple post: has Autolycus posted at all yet?
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Day One
May 22, 2007 13:49:30 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 22, 2007 13:49:30 GMT -5
NAF:Have I? How? If so, it's unintentional; I've been super-busy at work the last couple of days and have been snatching a minute or two to post as I find it. In fact, I haven't actually had time just yet to "share my knowledge as a game runner" as I'd been intending to do. Wednesday's looking like it'll be a day where I've got some more free time, and I'm planning on doing it then. In your first 3 posts or so, there seems to be a shift in your perspective. It isn't really a contradiction so much as it feels like you are changing your tune a little to help blend in with the general feel of the board. Maybe I am wrong and am seeing things that aren't there, but that kind of small shift, especially that early on, is frequently a scum tell. Just saying. Still no FOS from me on anyone though, not enough has happened. I need to let things shake out in my mind a bit.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 13:51:31 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 22, 2007 13:51:31 GMT -5
Oh hey, MAL is there a vote count we could get?
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Day One
May 22, 2007 13:52:27 GMT -5
Post by Gadarene on May 22, 2007 13:52:27 GMT -5
NAF:Hmm. Well, that certainly wasn't the case, so I don't know what more I can say. I'll readily admit that I'm still finding my feet as a player after my debacle in Mafia II, though.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 13:56:03 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on May 22, 2007 13:56:03 GMT -5
What I've noticed in the other games has been a LOT of posts in the early days of the game that revolve around two different uses of the word "random".
There's the camp of folks (we'll call them Random Geeks) who assert that, if plotted, ANY vote on Day 1 (and perhaps Day 2), regardless of the method used to select the target, will land in a distribution pattern that is largely indistinguishable from a random distribution.
Then there's a camp of folks (we'll call them Random Guessers) who acknowledge the views expounded by the first group, and choose to utilize tools such as random.org to select their targets. This may include a sub-group of folks (Random Posers) who say they're using a randomizing tool, but they are not actually selecting their target at random.
Then there's a camp of folks (Random Skeptics) who have problems with the Random Geeks and the Random Guessers, because they're trying to avoid any place where a Random Poser might hide.
The problem is, as far as I can see it, each of their perspectives can be situationally valid.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 14:08:17 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on May 22, 2007 14:08:17 GMT -5
And another thing I've noticed...
The pages on this board are really short, and the UI used to communicate that there are other pages beyond the one you are currently on is pretty under-stated.
So basically, I just spent a good long time convinced that the last post on the bottom of page 3 was the last post and that everyone was being very quiet...
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Day One
May 22, 2007 14:09:30 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 22, 2007 14:09:30 GMT -5
DAMMIT
I put together a whole long post about how your defense is weak and that you really needed to try harder if you were going to convince me you weren't scum... and that I was voting for you to encourage you to try a bit harder...
and then I went back to your posts again to get my evidence.
I...um...I once again misread your posts. In the same way that you called me out on it at the beginning of the game.
The thing is I really want to find something to grab onto, but most people aren't really saying anything that will allow for a good solid hold. Everyone is basically posting sound advice, even when the advice contradicts other advice it is sound and logical...and I don't know what to do with that.
I feel like we are starting to go around in circles and that we aren't making any forward progress, but it is only day 2, and we have a few more days until this ends...and then that gets circular.
Bah, I am going to lunch.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 14:10:45 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 22, 2007 14:10:45 GMT -5
oh, the first part of my last post replace all the times I said "you" with Gad.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 14:15:00 GMT -5
Post by Gadarene on May 22, 2007 14:15:00 GMT -5
*happy dance*
(But yeah, you're right; it's been tough getting a read on people so far. I'm still getting acclimated to the non-SDMB format, which is probably part of it.)
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Day One
May 22, 2007 14:27:17 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on May 22, 2007 14:27:17 GMT -5
Nice new ship! Thanks Idle Thoughts! However, you are still under my FOS. ;D No problem. It was deserted anyway until the next game I hosted, but since those are few and far between, well, maybe it can be used for a place for SD members to play mafia type games. Haha, understandable. Now to catch up.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 14:28:08 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on May 22, 2007 14:28:08 GMT -5
Of course, now I've worked out how to set one of these up myself. But it's not worth getting everyone to re-register elsewhere yet again, I'm thinking. If you still want to do that, that's fine.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 14:46:08 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on May 22, 2007 14:46:08 GMT -5
Also I have another question (although I think it's what got me targetted last time): can we discuss the power roles a little? I'm not particularly game-minded so I'm having a hard time figuring out what the roles mean, particularly since they are a bit different every time. What would we expect people in the power roles to be doing? Note I am not asking for strategy - what would we be doing to find them. I just want to know what they might be up to. (Please don't night kill me - I'm not asking for tips!) Funny you should add that last sentence. My thoughts would be, if anything, you were actually scum trying to learn more about them and know what to look for.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 14:55:48 GMT -5
Post by cowgirl on May 22, 2007 14:55:48 GMT -5
Funny you should add that last sentence. My thoughts would be, if anything, you were actually scum trying to learn more about them and know what to look for. I added that sentence because of my (totally groundless) conviction that it was this question that got me night-killed last game. In that game it was really my only substantive post, and I got offed fairly quickly. So I assumed that the mob thought that I was asking for help for my own power role, and therefore assumed I had one, then knocked me off. Of course, I could be totally wrong about that too, but that isn't relevant to my main point, which is: Your assumption (i.e. that I am scum looking for tips for finding power roles) is equally valid as its opposite (i.e. that I am a power role looking for help), which is equally valid as the assumption that I am being completely forthright (i.e. that I am some kind of townie looking for help about how I might interpret other posters' behaviour). By all means, please hold each assumption equally at this point. I ask only that you not favour one over the others until there is more evidence.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 14:58:42 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on May 22, 2007 14:58:42 GMT -5
Okay, well, as others have said before, the chances that scum (from other games) are scum again in this one are very slim. I never really understood the paranoia or doubt that people say that have because of going ons in the past threads. This is a new game and, as I'm told, the picking of teams and roles is completely random. So the distrust, from the start, of certain people makes no sense. Sure they COULD be scum again...but that's only if they were randomly chosen again as it. So me, I'd give them the benifet of the doubt to start out with.
Secondly, I agree with what NAF said about the scum not being so dumb...I think we'll have a LOT of pirates that are making a lot of posts and even long ones in this thread and being prolific players. Which looks more shady? Staying in the dark and making posts here and there or actually getting into the thick of it and being one of the most aggressive and analytical players? I'd think the former.
So like someone else said in here, it's best to not trust anyone at first....and even keep a doubt in your mind later if/when you feel you can trust someone.
You're ALL possible pirates to me, right now. : p
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Day One
May 22, 2007 15:01:55 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on May 22, 2007 15:01:55 GMT -5
By all means, please hold each assumption equally at this point. I ask only that you not favour one over the others until there is more evidence. *nods* Not a problem. Not too hard considering the game just started. I hold out (like I said in my last post) that everyone COULD be a possible pirate. But I don't overly think anyone is any more than anyone else. At least not right now.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 15:14:06 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on May 22, 2007 15:14:06 GMT -5
I added that sentence because of my (totally groundless) conviction that it was this question that got me night-killed last game. In that game it was really my only substantive post, and I got offed fairly quickly. So I assumed that the mob thought that I was asking for help for my own power role, and therefore assumed I had one, then knocked me off. - brief hijack Actually, that is exactly why you were killed in the previous game.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 15:31:13 GMT -5
Post by Malacandra on May 22, 2007 15:31:13 GMT -5
Oh hey, MAL is there a vote count we could get?Sure: NAF1138 - 1 vote Anyone else - 0 votes As previously stated (reply #40), only votes in this thread count. So anyone with a vote from the GG discussion, repeat it in this thread or it will not be counted. I will only search the Day n thread for votes.Lakai asked a question about Steele. If Steele witnesses a killing (i.e. was witnessing either the killer or the victim) he sees who kills whom. The only role ID he gets in either case is that if he witnesses a Flint killing, he recognises Flint - but Flint also recognises him. PS - as to "thingy Deadeye", I've been and updated the list of cuss words.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 15:34:06 GMT -5
Post by Kyrie Eleison on May 22, 2007 15:34:06 GMT -5
... Kyrie, if you'd like me to defend the WWPD thread more strenuously, let me know; I think it's a good way to get people talking in a non-random fashion about an interesting substantive topic, and I (perhaps naively) think the likelihood of scum taking cues from our responses is fairly slim. No need to offer me any defense, but I'll happily read any thoughts you care to offer on the topic. I came to pretty much the same conclusion that you did -- that discussion of the topic was unlikely to significantly affect behavior and was likely, overall, to be beneficial. I was just surprised to hear NAF imply that he hadn't considered the matter at all, hence, the vote. One note that we'll see over and over is that discussion is good for the town, and while this is generally true, there are also some topics that ought to be generally avoided: Who are the pro-crew power roles? How are they likely to act? Pretty much any time the crew seems to be about to engage in discussion of something that the pirates themselves do not know, people ought to stop and consider whom the discussion benefits more. How the crew thinks pirates are likely to act is one such topic. That said: Oh hey, MAL is there a vote count we could get? Malacandra cancelled all of the google board votes, and I'm pretty sure that there's been only one vote cast since the new thread began. I feel like we are starting to go around in circles and that we aren't making any forward progress, but it is only day 2, and we have a few more days until this ends...and then that gets circular. That's kind of what I'd expect from a laid back discussion in which everyone is lounging about discussing mechanics, tactics, and strategy. Let's see some voting you lily-livered, sea-sodden riffraff! Speaking of which: Your assumption (i.e. that I am scum looking for tips for finding power roles) is equally valid as its opposite (i.e. that I am a power role looking for help), which is equally valid as the assumption that I am being completely forthright (i.e. that I am some kind of townie looking for help about how I might interpret other posters' behaviour). Cowgirl, I can only distinguish your role by what you post. While, given nothing else, all of these cases are equally valid, the sort of discussion you're asking for, namely, how to interpret other poster's writings in light of the power roles they might hold, is exactly the sort of discussion we need not to have. Unvote: NAF1138 Vote: cowgirl
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Day One
May 22, 2007 15:34:46 GMT -5
Post by cowgirl on May 22, 2007 15:34:46 GMT -5
- brief hijack Actually, that is exactly why you were killed in the previous game. ;D I knew it! Finally, I got something RIGHT in this game!
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Day One
May 22, 2007 15:40:11 GMT -5
Post by cowgirl on May 22, 2007 15:40:11 GMT -5
Cowgirl, I can only distinguish your role by what you post. While, given nothing else, all of these cases are equally valid, the sort of discussion you're asking for, namely, how to interpret other poster's writings in light of the power roles they might hold, is exactly the sort of discussion we need not to have. From my perspective, I can only imagine two ways of playing: crew and scum. There are lots of other ways of playing, but as I have never held those roles I can't begin to imagine what they might be. In previous games I found it helpful to talk about the power roles - in the most abstract possible sense, as in "scum would probably like it if power role X acted in Y manner" or "if we use this strategy, it could get our Detective killed!" Also in my last game, second incarnation, I was the guardian angel and hadn't the foggiest idea of what to do with it. Any guidance at all (whether in the form "The GA should do A" or "Only SCUM would say that the GA should do A!" or whatever) would have at least given me some material to work with. As it was I screwed up, wasted my power and made myself look suspicious.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 15:51:14 GMT -5
Post by Malacandra on May 22, 2007 15:51:14 GMT -5
Of course, now I've worked out how to set one of these up myself. But it's not worth getting everyone to re-register elsewhere yet again, I'm thinking. If you still want to do that, that's fine. No, I'm very happy with the setup here and it's too much trouble to up sticks again. I'll use my own when/if I host another game!
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Day One
May 22, 2007 16:00:39 GMT -5
Post by fluiddruid on May 22, 2007 16:00:39 GMT -5
Hi guys. Sorry to be tardy to the party! I promise I'll be more active ... I've just had a variety of RL things happen, and frankly missed the start of Day One. I've skimmed the posts so far, but I'll read 'em in more detail shortly. IMHO: Random votes should be viewed with suspicion. Only townies/non-pirates ever really randomly vote - pirates, by definition, can't as they know too much. I'd much rather lynch someone for the wrong reasons, but actually make people give reasons, than allow random.org nonsense. In the end it comes down to being accountable for your post history, which offed me rather early in Mafia III (and rightfully so). Frankly, based on my experience from the other side, length of post isn't really an issue. Of the known Mafia I've seen in the existing games, particularly game 2, it all really depends on the player. Sure, a pirate is likely to not want to get hammered down on a lot of points, but, someone who makes excellent points and analysis may be leading the town down the wrong path. Unlikely so early in the game, but still possible. In any case, I'm not ready to vote as I'd like to read through everything again but I wanted to let everyone know that "I'm alive". PS death to pirates!
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Day One
May 22, 2007 16:24:35 GMT -5
Post by Gadarene on May 22, 2007 16:24:35 GMT -5
Nice avatar.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 16:33:23 GMT -5
Post by fluiddruid on May 22, 2007 16:33:23 GMT -5
Thank ye kindly. I'm a whiz with MS Paint, ain't I? I have to say, reading through what we have so far, the only person I get a real read off of is cowgirl. Mostly because of this: Someone said earlier that just because two people disagree on strategy, and even if one of those strategies appear to favour the mafia, that does not mean both people aren't town. I agree, and in general I don't get much use out of lengthy strategy discussions. I confess I am a cow of little brain sometimes and I can't follow some of these strategy discussions, but I don't sweat it too much because: 1. people might be: - mistaken - using poor logic - arguing disingeneously (i.e. deliberately misleading) So, to sum up, let's disregard substantive strategy ('cuz it's, like, hard and stuff) and just go with our guts? Bonk! Wrong answer. Frankly I think this is a setup to avoid being hammered down on the whys and wherefores of voting, and to discourage logical analysis. Vote cowgirl.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 16:41:11 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on May 22, 2007 16:41:11 GMT -5
Wow, two votes for cowgirl just because she asked about power roles. While I also remarked I'd think scum could do that just as easy as someone claiming they didn't know much about it, I don't think it's very much to surely go on.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 16:47:44 GMT -5
Post by fluiddruid on May 22, 2007 16:47:44 GMT -5
Wow, two votes for cowgirl just because she asked about power roles. While I also remarked I'd think scum could do that just as easy as someone claiming they didn't know much about it, I don't think it's very much to surely go on. It's Day One, there won't be a lot to go on either way. But, in terms of substance, I don't mind that she's asking questions - it's the statements, blatantly encouraging us to not overstrategize, that concern me. It's awfully early to be making such blanket statements and frankly it just didn't ring true to me. Just felt like scum. At this point, that's the best lead I have.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 16:49:41 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 22, 2007 16:49:41 GMT -5
Wow, two votes for cowgirl just because she asked about power roles. While I also remarked I'd think scum could do that just as easy as someone claiming they didn't know much about it, I don't think it's very much to surely go on. Ok, here is something I can sink my teeth into finally. So you very subtly accuse cowgirl...then act surprised when other people share your opinion? This combined with your mostly noncommittal posts... FOS IDLE THOUGHTS
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Day One
May 22, 2007 16:57:52 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on May 22, 2007 16:57:52 GMT -5
I didn't accuse her. I just pointed out the fact that it could be she wanted a clearer view of what's what but it could also be she was a pirate "fishing" for extra info and foresight. If I was accusing her, I'd have voted for her myself. But since I think that's coming on too strong, at least right here and now, I didn't and found it odd others did. Not just one. Two. That'd be a pretty easy start of a bandwagon.
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Day One
May 22, 2007 17:00:35 GMT -5
Post by capybara on May 22, 2007 17:00:35 GMT -5
You know. . . I'll go a step further. I think we have some clever-thinkin' scum. [blue]vote Idle Thoughts[/color]
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Day One
May 22, 2007 17:01:32 GMT -5
Post by capybara on May 22, 2007 17:01:32 GMT -5
Ahem, Idle Thoughts Sorry 'bout that coding.
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