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Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 25, 2009 23:13:47 GMT -5
Reading and catching up now.
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Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 25, 2009 23:20:23 GMT -5
Town Cop as well.
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Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 25, 2009 23:25:08 GMT -5
As for confirmation...
The "Power" line has 4 "i's" and the 16-17th words are "of that".
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Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 25, 2009 23:27:13 GMT -5
And the rest of yours all check out with mine as well...
As for my absence, I needed a break from the Undying Way game, as I was extremely frustrated with how something played out. No hard feelings either way Bill. My parents were also out of town for the weekend, so I was occupied elsewhere.
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Post by gryff on Aug 26, 2009 3:48:41 GMT -5
That is odd, that does not match mine. It is 3 am here at the moment so will come back with more in 6-8 hours. My powers line has 13 words, not including Power:. Very odd that you do not agree, gryff. Count your o's again. 13 words does agree with mine. But not matching my o's might be reason for me to vote you. Except that you were the first to claim, and unlikely that if you were a scum miller, you would claim so early. My vote remains on hockeyguy. Where is he? Does he have a RL reason for not posting? Otherwise, I am thinking it might be a gastardly reason for not posting? I agree this is very strange, I thought maybe in my tiredness I had made a mistake or that you meant including the title of the pm. I have counted again now, since I am slightly more awake and I still get 7 'o's without the title and 8 with. I am ignoring the signature and whatnot from the pm. (Using the FlyingCows method I get 0b205a68cb9e8a8715fd1fb2390a754f, I copied from Role: to the last full stop inclusive) Though something odd strikes me while reading the PM again (and again) it that it specifies "Town Cop". I was not aware you could have a non-town cop, though it might just be a quirk of the mods language.
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Post by gryff on Aug 26, 2009 3:55:13 GMT -5
4 cops and 5 millers? we looking at 2-3 scum in this size group?
If the cops are happy with their handshaking then we could have all the millers checked within two turns, but unless one of the scum is a godfather then we will all show as scum. The cops could check each other out, but that would only really be worth while if the handshaking had been compromised.
How likely would it be for the mod to hand out town role PM's to the scum? I can't think it would be very likely as so far everything seems to be stacked against town.
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Post by gryff on Aug 26, 2009 3:58:29 GMT -5
pah, in testing the md5 thingy I realised I typed my name in with a capitalised G.
Gryff 0b205a68cb9e8a8715fd1fb2390a754f
gryff 8461b045c5cc1f344fdd6a0985f420fb
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Post by gryff on Aug 26, 2009 4:10:38 GMT -5
Very odd that you do not agree, gryff. Count your o's again. 13 words does agree with mine. But not matching my o's might be reason for me to vote you. Except that you were the first to claim, and unlikely that if you were a scum miller, you would claim so early. There are scum millers? How would that work?
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Aug 26, 2009 4:58:26 GMT -5
pah, in testing the md5 thingy I realised I typed my name in with a capitalised G. Gryff 0b205a68cb9e8a8715fd1fb2390a754f gryff 8461b045c5cc1f344fdd6a0985f420fb Pretty cool - I got both those codes (how does it work?? Someone tell me - this is more cool than I thought!!) Total Lost: 922e456752c22e65cfec436ea3b759b4
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Post by MiteyMouse on Aug 26, 2009 5:05:13 GMT -5
MiteyMouse: 0bac1d817792581abe0e942238b5e99f
I got the same code for you TL and Gryff.
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Post by BillMc on Aug 26, 2009 5:07:46 GMT -5
This was a pointless discussion.. Yes I know - I was seeing if FCOD was paying attention :-)
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Post by BillMc on Aug 26, 2009 5:08:15 GMT -5
Yep, that's what I got for as well. Did you get the same hash for me? --FCOD FlyingCowofDoom + my PM d625ed8fa7431d71ebfdcdd67ef9b69a BillMc + my PM c210cc70e507e4115c214384df81ea55
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Post by gryff on Aug 26, 2009 5:24:11 GMT -5
FlyingCowofDoom + my PM d625ed8fa7431d71ebfdcdd67ef9b69a That doesn't match flying cows, but you have a lower case "o" for Of.
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Post by special on Aug 26, 2009 6:14:34 GMT -5
Yep, that's what I got for as well. Did you get the same hash for me? --FCOD FlyingCowofDoom + my PM d625ed8fa7431d71ebfdcdd67ef9b69a BillMc + my PM c210cc70e507e4115c214384df81ea55 I'm getting yours, but I'm not getting what you have for FCOD Hockeyguy, Can you post your code? Perhaps we've all gotten the same PMs and we don't know if we are Scum? Or maybe the Scum were given our role PMs as well. I'd also suggest that the Cops investigate themselves toNight. It should be the first step in helping us figure out if we are insane, paranoid, naive or normal.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Aug 26, 2009 6:40:47 GMT -5
Though something odd strikes me while reading the PM again (and again) it that it specifies "Town Cop". I was not aware you could have a non-town cop, though it might just be a quirk of the mods language. While I will neither confirm nor deny the existence of any role in this game, there have been scum cops in games before, both here and on the Straight Dope. And it's SOP to list the alignment even if the alignment is obvious. (E.g. Powerless town are usually called "Vanilla" while powerless scum are usually called "Goon", but most PM's will give each an alignment anyway.) And all PMs in this game will have either "Town <role>" or "Mafia <role>".
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Post by gryff on Aug 26, 2009 6:45:17 GMT -5
ok, I have checked total lost's and MiteyMouse's hashes and they seem to match for me.
From the millers that leaves Texcat and sirsam972 to attempt matching PM's. To be honest if they all match I would have to conclude the scum have our PMs, if they don't match then it seems all too easy...
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Post by BillMc on Aug 26, 2009 6:56:34 GMT -5
FlyingCowOfDoom Hm I may have deleted the last space from the copied PM. d625ed8fa7431d71ebfdcdd67ef9b69a --FCOD I get "d625ed8fa7431d71ebfdcdd67ef9b69a" for FCOD with a space at the end and "6175d8d9b543068b60bcb9c642890d26" for no space I'm getting yours, but I'm not getting what you have for FCOD Hockeyguy, Can you post your code? Perhaps we've all gotten the same PMs and we don't know if we are Scum? Or maybe the Scum were given our role PMs as well. I'd also suggest that the Cops investigate themselves toNight. It should be the first step in helping us figure out if we are insane, paranoid, naive or normal. That certainly would be gastardly. Self investigation sounds like a plausible plan in that light tho the result couldn't be trusted by anyone else. I guess an alternative would be a chain of investigations bill>fcod fcod>hg hg>ed ed>bill, tho a scum nk of any of us would cast doubt on the broken chain of results.
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Aug 26, 2009 7:08:18 GMT -5
And all this brings us back to a lynch of a miller IMO.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 26, 2009 8:02:50 GMT -5
Ok, BillMc also checks out. So far we have Town Cops: FlyingCowOfDoom BillMc Special Ed hockeyguy (pending verification) Millers: Gryff Total Lost MiteyMouse Unknown: texcat sirsam Total Lost: The md5 hash is a one way encryption algorithm. That is, the hash that is generated is unique to whatever you type into the box, but there's no way to take a hash and figure out what was typed in to create it. It's basically how public key/private key encryption works. We all have a public key (our name) and a private key (our PM). When you combine the two, you get a unique hash that can only be re-created by someone else if they have the same private key. By combining it with a key that can be shared with everyone, we can verify that we all have the same PM without revealing the actual PM. It's also why you don't give out the same PM to multiple players unless you're posting it publicly ;D --FCOD
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Post by texcat on Aug 26, 2009 8:48:57 GMT -5
Well that was really scary! I couldn't get gryff's code to come out right. I finally did -- it was something with the spaces or new line at the end. Once I got gryff's to come out correctly, I had no problem with MiteyMouse or Total Lost. All confirmed. My code: texcat 3752fb9a7d23c59de0f1adff8d46f98d
Unvote: hockeyguy Vote: no lynch
Since all of us except sirsam seem to be confirmed, my vote would literally be a stab in the dark. Rather than kill an innocent townie today, I think we should let our cops try investigating tonight. We have four cops, that's quite a bit of investigating they can do.
Is it possible that the scum are not self-aware? That the scum do not know yet that they are scum? I had this thought when I couldn't get my hash to come out right.
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Post by texcat on Aug 26, 2009 8:58:15 GMT -5
And I should add my thoughts about why no lynch is good for the town on day 1. My thinking is that we only have a certain number of mis-lynches. We will almost certainly use one up today with the lack of information so far. I think it is much better to start tomorrow at 6-2 rather than 5-2.
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Post by gryff on Aug 26, 2009 9:05:28 GMT -5
I checked texcats hash and it works for me.
huh, I am not sure I like where this is going. We have only two "unconfirmed" now and I would have thought we would have three scum in this game. Anyone more experianced with these games like to give an estimate on how many they would think there should be?
I am worried we are wasting all this time on pm matching when the scum have our pm structure.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Aug 26, 2009 9:07:32 GMT -5
Time for another vote count!
Updated vote count:
Current Votes:
texcat (2): FCOD, gryff BillMC (1): Special Ed Mitey Mouse (1): sirsam972 gryff (1): BillMC No Lynch(1): texcat
Currently Not Voting: MiteyMouse, hockeyguy8435, Total Lost
As of now, texcat will be lynched at Dusk.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 26, 2009 9:12:19 GMT -5
Cops: FlyingCowOfDoom - d625ed8fa7431d71ebfdcdd67ef9b69a BillMc - c210cc70e507e4115c214384df81ea55 Special Ed - f9ca4954172702ee5e824fa8ac222a70 hockeyguy - pending verification
Millers: gryff - 8461b045c5cc1f344fdd6a0985f420fb Total Lost - 922e456752c22e65cfec436ea3b759b4 MiteyMouse - 0bac1d817792581abe0e942238b5e99f texcat - 3752fb9a7d23c59de0f1adff8d46f98d sirsam - pending verification
So, what do we do if the millers all confirm each other and the cops all confirm each other? It appears that we have two groups that each got one of two identical PMs. It might be helpful to see what the differences are between them, so perhaps each group should post the PM after we've all been confirmed. DO NOT POST A PM UNTIL EVERYONE HAS POSTED A HASH!!
There are only two scenarios that I can think of.
1) The scum have been given cover role PMs. For this to be possible, Hoopy would have had to give the scum the exact PM that was given to the cops and/or millers. 2) The scum don't know they're scum.
I find both of these scenarios to be unlikely, and have no idea what to think. There has to be scum hiding somewhere, and I don't see how a game could work with the scum not knowing who they are...how would they pick a night kill target? Therefore, I must conclude that the scum have been given cover roles as millers.
Ed suggested that we investigate ourselves, which is OK I guess. I think we should each investigate another cop. I'm not really even sure what this will accomplish, but it seems pointless to investigate millers. For example:
FlyingCowOfDoom investigates BillMc BillMc investigates Special Ed Special Ed investigates hockeyguy hockeyguy investigates FlyingCowOfDoom
We already know that we all have identical PMs (assuming hockeyguy posts a hash that checks out), so we don't need to do a self investigation to verify our sanity (for new players, a cop that is not sane will get inaccurate results).
I think lynching one of the millers is our best move for today. I find it more likely that scum cover roles would be millers than cops, and either way the millers have no useful powers so losing them is less hurtful to the town.
I'll Vote: sirsam pending his verification, although if all 5 of the claimed millers vote it'll probably come down to random/gut feeling to choose one.
--FCOD
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 26, 2009 9:14:13 GMT -5
I checked texcats hash and it works for me. huh, I am not sure I like where this is going. We have only two "unconfirmed" now and I would have thought we would have three scum in this game. Anyone more experianced with these games like to give an estimate on how many they would think there should be? I am worried we are wasting all this time on pm matching when the scum have our pm structure. Actually two scum is probably the right amount for a game this size. It will be very interesting to see if sirsam and hockeyguy's hashes check out. --FCOD
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 26, 2009 9:14:44 GMT -5
NETA:
"I'll Vote: sirsam pending his verification, although if all 5 of the claimed millers check out it'll probably come down to random/gut feeling to choose one.
--FCOD
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Post by texcat on Aug 26, 2009 9:20:39 GMT -5
I am worried we are wasting all this time on pm matching when the scum have our pm structure. Well, the role line and the win condition line would be easy to figure out -- I think our mod has told us those. The power line for the miller's might be tougher, but it would probably be doable in a few tries, assuming that the Mafia Miller, if there is such a thing, has a similar power line. What do the cops think? How easy would it be to turn a Mafia Cop PM into a Town Cop PM? My guess right now is that all of the millers are town, and that we have 2 town cops and 2 mafia cops. That seems like more or less the right balance, doesn't it?
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Post by BillMc on Aug 26, 2009 9:39:58 GMT -5
Unvote: gryff
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Aug 26, 2009 9:50:40 GMT -5
And I should add my thoughts about why no lynch is good for the town on day 1. My thinking is that we only have a certain number of mis-lynches. We will almost certainly use one up today with the lack of information so far. I think it is much better to start tomorrow at 6-2 rather than 5-2. But you have to remember that we have to lynch to get informations. The scum will have their NK to Night no matter what we do (and you can be sure they'll kill Town and not scum - because that is the ONE thing scum will always do). We need the votes, the lynch and the alignment of the lynched to move this game forward in the intrest of Town. What do the cops think? How easy would it be to turn a Mafia Cop PM into a Town Cop PM? My guess right now is that all of the millers are town, and that we have 2 town cops and 2 mafia cops. That seems like more or less the right balance, doesn't it? I don't understand why you think scum would have two scum cops. Scum would already know who is Town and who is scum. But if you're saying to fake Town cops... I think I understand the theory better. Total Lost: The md5 hash is a one way encryption algorithm. That is, the hash that is generated is unique to whatever you type into the box, but there's no way to take a hash and figure out what was typed in to create it. It's basically how public key/private key encryption works. We all have a public key (our name) and a private key (our PM). When you combine the two, you get a unique hash that can only be re-created by someone else if they have the same private key. By combining it with a key that can be shared with everyone, we can verify that we all have the same PM without revealing the actual PM. It's also why you don't give out the same PM to multiple players unless you're posting it publicly ;D --FCOD That's really fascinating!!! So outside the would of mafia - when would you use this?
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Post by gryff on Aug 26, 2009 10:17:20 GMT -5
It is mostly used to pass mildly encrypted messages I believe.
Unvote: texcat
Vote: sirsam
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