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Post by gryff on Aug 26, 2009 10:19:34 GMT -5
actually I am completely wrong.
Wiki says;
MD5 digests have been widely used in the software world to provide some assurance that a transferred file has arrived intact. For example, file servers often provide a pre-computed MD5 checksum for the files, so that a user can compare the checksum of the downloaded file to it. Unix-based operating systems include MD5 sum utilities in their distribution packages, whereas Windows users use third-party applications. However, now that it is easy to generate MD5 collisions, it is possible for the person who created the file to create a second file with the same checksum, so this technique cannot protect against some forms of malicious tampering. Also, in some cases the checksum cannot be trusted (for example, if it was obtained over the same channel as the downloaded file), in which case MD5 can only provide error-checking functionality: it will recognize a corrupt or incomplete download, which becomes more likely when downloading larger files. MD5 is widely used to store passwords[24][25][26]. To mitigate against the vulnerabilities mentioned above, one can add a salt to the passwords before hashing them. Some implementations may apply the hashing function more than once—see key strengthening.
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Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 26, 2009 10:28:05 GMT -5
hockeyguy8435 - 3cf03e66dca165575187cf78dd4703e7
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Post by texcat on Aug 26, 2009 10:30:53 GMT -5
But you have to remember that we have to lynch to get informations. The scum will have their NK to Night no matter what we do (and you can be sure they'll kill Town and not scum - because that is the ONE thing scum will always do). We need the votes, the lynch and the alignment of the lynched to move this game forward in the intrest of Town. Ah, but here's one catch...we're playing in a game where almost half of the town are claimed cops. We will surely have more information tomorrow. And here's the other catch...you DO get a lot of information from a no lynch vote. You see who argues against it. (Hint: scum always want a mis-lynch and think they can get one on day 1.) You get to see who bandwagons onto it. (At least one scum will usually bandwagon onto any possible mis-lynch. No scum will bandwagon onto a no lynch -- at least not till the last possible minute.)
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Post by texcat on Aug 26, 2009 10:33:21 GMT -5
No scum will bandwagon onto a no lynch -- at least not till the last possible minute, or until someone points it out.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 26, 2009 10:45:17 GMT -5
Ok, hockeyguy checks out to me. I can't imagine there's only one scum, so either the scum must have been given cover role PMs.
--FCOD
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Aug 26, 2009 12:02:44 GMT -5
But you have to remember that we have to lynch to get informations. The scum will have their NK to Night no matter what we do (and you can be sure they'll kill Town and not scum - because that is the ONE thing scum will always do). We need the votes, the lynch and the alignment of the lynched to move this game forward in the intrest of Town. Ah, but here's one catch...we're playing in a game where almost half of the town are claimed cops. We will surely have more information tomorrow. And here's the other catch...you DO get a lot of information from a no lynch vote. You see who argues against it. (Hint: scum always want a mis-lynch and think they can get one on day 1.) You get to see who bandwagons onto it. (At least one scum will usually bandwagon onto any possible mis-lynch. No scum will bandwagon onto a no lynch -- at least not till the last possible minute.) So now you trust all the cops and what ever they tell us toMorrow you will believe?? That makes so very little sense to me. And as scum I'd never dare to call for a "no lynch" - but that's because I'd never do anything so anti-town while being scum. We don't agree on this matter at all. But: In a Gastard -game - could we have a Day without scum and maybe some sort of recruitment in the Night??
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Aug 26, 2009 12:09:42 GMT -5
Time for another vote count!
Updated vote count:
Current Votes:
texcat (1): FCOD BillMC (1): Special Ed Mitey Mouse (1): sirsam972 sirsam972(1): gryff No Lynch(1): texcat
Currently Not Voting: MiteyMouse, hockeyguy8435, Total Lost, BillMc
As of now, texcat will be lynched at Dusk.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 26, 2009 12:21:39 GMT -5
Unvote: Vote: sirsam
Thoughts in a sec.
--FCOD
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Aug 26, 2009 12:24:28 GMT -5
Time for another vote count!
Updated vote count:
Current Votes:
sirsam972(2): gryff, FCOD BillMC (1): Special Ed Mitey Mouse (1): sirsam972 No Lynch(1): texcat
Currently Not Voting: MiteyMouse, hockeyguy8435, Total Lost, BillMc
As of now, sirsam972 will be lynched at Dusk.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 26, 2009 12:25:05 GMT -5
Ok, so I'm going to assume that sirsam will post a valid hash. What the hell do we do now? I guess I'm just going to list the facts we currently know: - Four of the players (Me, Bill, Ed, and HG) have the "Town Cop" PM. Each of those four knows that the other three received or has access to the exact same PM.
- Five players (Total, texcat, gryff, sam, and Mitey) have the "Miller" PM. Each of the five also know that the other four received or has access to the exact same PM.
- There are scum in the game, somewhere somehow, because the win conditions posted by Hoopy say so, and Hoopy said he won't lie.
Did I miss anything? I think we can rule out the entire cop group or the entire miller group as being scum. Four is too many scum for a game of nine, and besides I know I'm not scum. Obviously if the millers were all scum the game would be over. ic overnight, like Total mentioned. Now, there would be no point in having cops if all the other players would investigate as scum. Therefore, perhaps the scum actually read as town. I propose the following: we lynch one of the five millers. Then, each cop investigates one of the remaining four millers. I don't really care which miller dies today. Right now I'm looking at sirsam because he hasn't posted a hash and the day ends in a little more than 2 hours. I'll post this now so that any cops that aren't coming back before the end of the day know what to do. Let's just put our names in alphabetical order and the millers names in alphabetical order, and investigate line by line. So, if sirsam is lynched: BillMc investigates gryff FCOD investigates Mitey hockeyguy investigates texcat Special Ed investigates Total Hopefully everyone will check in before the end of the day, but this is the plan I'll follow unless someone comes up with something better. --FCOD
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Aug 26, 2009 13:06:26 GMT -5
I agree with the plan put forth by FCOD. I'm happy to vote for the player not giving us anything to go by. For a Day 1 this has been a Day where we needed all the input we could get. Vote: Sirsam972 And I like that Ed will sneak a peek at me toNight - I'll be ready in the bathroom
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Post by BillMc on Aug 26, 2009 13:10:21 GMT -5
And I like that Ed will sneak a peek at me toNight - I'll be ready in the bathroom Clearly favouritism! Vote: sirsam
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Post by gryff on Aug 26, 2009 13:13:16 GMT -5
The downside of knowing which cop investigates who means the scum know who to nightkill to prevent the results getting out. I also would suggest a random method to determine who investigates who, so a potential scum FlyingCow (no offence) can't decide to investigate his compatriot.
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Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 26, 2009 13:13:36 GMT -5
Vote: SirSam
I will investigate Texcat toNight, per FCOD's plan.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 26, 2009 13:15:30 GMT -5
The downside of knowing which cop investigates who means the scum know who to nightkill to prevent the results getting out. I also would suggest a random method to determine who investigates who, so a potential scum FlyingCow (no offence) can't decide to investigate his compatriot. Ah yes, but we all know who is going to investigate who. So if Ed turns up dead, we'll all be looking at Total tomorrow... --FCOD
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Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 26, 2009 13:16:24 GMT -5
The downside of knowing which cop investigates who means the scum know who to nightkill to prevent the results getting out. I also would suggest a random method to determine who investigates who, so a potential scum FlyingCow (no offence) can't decide to investigate his compatriot. Well, doing it alphabetically, as suggested, should prevent Scum from IDing each other, unless they match the alphabetically plan. Doing it randomly could result in someone not being picked, and people doubling up. Also, if someone offers a different way in getting everyone IDed without doubling up, then they could be accused of pairing Scum buddies up. While doing it alphabetically doesn't remove the possibility, it's probably the safest way to do it.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 26, 2009 13:19:30 GMT -5
I don't really care who investigates who. I just put forth alphabetical because I wasn't sure if sirsam was gonna be lynched for sure. Since it appears that he is, I'd be happy to use random.org. Somebody give me a word or number, anything at all to use as a random seed and I'll do it.
--FCOD
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Post by gryff on Aug 26, 2009 13:26:32 GMT -5
Sure alphabetically would do that if we knew an uninterested party suggested that, but if (hypothetically) FlyingCow looked at the list and tried to work out a reasonable sounding method that happened to match scum with scum there are a host of methods to choose from (alphabetic, reverse alpha, order of post, or other more esoteric methods). Again no offense FCOD, I just don't know if you are town or not. We could use random.org or invisiblecastle.com/roller/ to determine the order from a pre-numbered list. Invisible castle has a facility to show how many times a user has rolled a set of numbers to avoid someone rolling until they have a list they like. You need to determine the username before hand though. I dunno, I just don't like the idea of one person choosing the order if we can't confirm if they are town.
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Post by gryff on Aug 26, 2009 13:27:43 GMT -5
I don't really care who investigates who. I just put forth alphabetical because I wasn't sure if sirsam was gonna be lynched for sure. Since it appears that he is, I'd be happy to use random.org. Somebody give me a word or number, anything at all to use as a random seed and I'll do it. --FCOD Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Post by sirsam972 on Aug 26, 2009 13:31:08 GMT -5
Do mods here provide scum with the town's PMs? That happens sometimes.
If they do not, is it legal here to ask questions like that? Granted I haven't done a survey of everywhere, but most places would modkill for asking that. Or they would include two differently worded role PMs for the same role.
Even if none of those happen, it's pretty poor form to 'confirm' roles as such by asking questions like that. It'd be like asking "okay everyone post the time you received your role PM because it's likely he did sent out the scum's pms all at the start of the bunch or the end!" No one really wants to play a game like that haha and it's dumb to make the mod guard against all that which is why I think asking questions like that is a bit silly.
It is good you are voting me, because I was about to post that I'm not going to post this 'hash' thing even if I was online yesterday. And I'll soon come up town miller anyway.
I prefer to play mafia games where the idea is to discover mafia through lies, not "so if you really have a queen of hearts like I do, what is the lady wearing on her robe???"
Unvote
Voting texcat for voting no lynch after we already had the discussion that that is a bad idea.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 26, 2009 13:31:15 GMT -5
That's why I'm saying, someone else give me a random seed to randomize the list. Then, anyone can verify the seed by going to random.org, putting in the same seed ("Use pregenerated randomization based on persistent identifier") and the same list. I don't care who decides on the seed; I have no interest in stacking the list. I propose we all contribute a part of the seed, say two letters. Everyone who's on before the Day ends, anyway. At the end of the Day we'll concatenate the letters in the order they were posted and use that as the seed. That way, nobody can be accused of stacking the list. Does that work for you, gryff? Random seed letters: qz --FCOD
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 26, 2009 13:32:21 GMT -5
Do mods here provide scum with the town's PMs? That happens sometimes. If they do not, is it legal here to ask questions like that? Granted I haven't done a survey of everywhere, but most places would modkill for asking that. Or they would include two differently worded role PMs for the same role. Even if none of those happen, it's pretty poor form to 'confirm' roles as such by asking questions like that. It'd be like asking "okay everyone post the time you received your role PM because it's likely he did sent out the scum's pms all at the start of the bunch or the end!" No one really wants to play a game like that haha and it's dumb to make the mod guard against all that which is why I think asking questions like that is a bit silly. It is good you are voting me, because I was about to post that I'm not going to post this 'hash' thing even if I was online yesterday. And I'll soon come up town miller anyway. I prefer to play mafia games where the idea is to discover mafia through lies, not "so if you really have a queen of hearts like I do, what is the lady wearing on her robe???" UnvoteVoting texcat for voting no lynch after we already had the discussion that that is a bad idea. Yeah, typically this sort of thing doesn't happen because any PM that is duplicated (the vanilla PM) is posted publicly to prevent handshaking. However, once the cat's out of the bag it's pretty much impossible to go back to normal mafia. --FCOD
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Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 26, 2009 13:35:10 GMT -5
Just give me a name and I'm fine. I'm leaving now, but I'll check back tonight and send my PM to Hoopy, so just leave the pairs here, and I'll do what I need to when I'm back.
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Post by gryff on Aug 26, 2009 13:38:22 GMT -5
That's why I'm saying, someone else give me a random seed to randomize the list. Then, anyone can verify the seed by going to random.org, putting in the same seed ("Use pregenerated randomization based on persistent identifier") and the same list. I don't care who decides on the seed; I have no interest in stacking the list. I propose we all contribute a part of the seed, say two letters. Everyone who's on before the Day ends, anyway. At the end of the Day we'll concatenate the letters in the order they were posted and use that as the seed. That way, nobody can be accused of stacking the list. Does that work for you, gryff? Random seed letters: qz --FCOD Sure, thats fine with me. Mine part is "co"
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Post by gryff on Aug 26, 2009 13:39:47 GMT -5
Do mods here provide scum with the town's PMs? That happens sometimes. If they do not, is it legal here to ask questions like that? Granted I haven't done a survey of everywhere, but most places would modkill for asking that. Or they would include two differently worded role PMs for the same role. Even if none of those happen, it's pretty poor form to 'confirm' roles as such by asking questions like that. It'd be like asking "okay everyone post the time you received your role PM because it's likely he did sent out the scum's pms all at the start of the bunch or the end!" No one really wants to play a game like that haha and it's dumb to make the mod guard against all that which is why I think asking questions like that is a bit silly. It is good you are voting me, because I was about to post that I'm not going to post this 'hash' thing even if I was online yesterday. And I'll soon come up town miller anyway. I prefer to play mafia games where the idea is to discover mafia through lies, not "so if you really have a queen of hearts like I do, what is the lady wearing on her robe???" UnvoteVoting texcat for voting no lynch after we already had the discussion that that is a bad idea. I am not keen on it, but as FCOD says done is done. However it seems obvious that the mod guarded against it by giving the scum PM's.
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Post by gryff on Aug 26, 2009 13:46:24 GMT -5
Actually now that the handshaking is obviously a dead end my suspicion is back at BillMC, and texcat for all my previous reasons.
Unvote:
Vote: texcat
I would actually put BillMC Higher, but as he is claimed cop I don't want to reduce our chances of getting some possible information if my suspicion is only due to his grumpy nature. I do still find his reactions strange.
If the scum had our PM's then they must have known we only had cops and millers, which is interesting when I go back and reread bills posts.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Aug 26, 2009 13:53:53 GMT -5
Time for another vote count!
Updated vote count:
Current Votes:
sirsam972(4): FCOD, Total Lost, BillMc, hockeyguy8435 BillMC (1): Special Ed texcat(1): sirsam972 No Lynch(1): texcat, gryff
Currently Not Voting: MiteyMouse
As of now, sirsam972 will be lynched at Dusk.
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Total Ullz
Administrator
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Post by Total Ullz on Aug 26, 2009 13:57:36 GMT -5
Ah yes, but we all know who is going to investigate who. So if Ed turns up dead, we'll all be looking at Total tomorrow... --FCOD But you forget... I like being looked at My two letters are: tl
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 26, 2009 14:16:29 GMT -5
Ok, so we have "qzcotl" for the seed so far. I'd rather get four or more people to contribute to allay all fear that the scum are manipulating it.
--FCOD
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Post by BillMc on Aug 26, 2009 14:22:30 GMT -5
ds
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