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Day 5
Aug 14, 2009 19:18:46 GMT -5
Post by Dfrnt Breign on Aug 14, 2009 19:18:46 GMT -5
quote author=hockeyguy8435 board=undyingwar thread=1038 post=52128 time=1250277304] Actually, comments like "scum are doing very well" are often time made by scum, who can't resist gloating a little when they're doing well. If you look back over the games we've played here and on the Dope, it probably runs about 70/30 to scum making that sort of comment. When you consider that scum on average only make up about 25% of the players of any given game, that's a pretty reliable scum tell. Not perfect of course, but no one scum tell will be really. Ya know I'd find me pretty suspicious, too, if that is what I had actually said. Spintari's quote was not "scum are doing well" it's this: I didn't say he was leading the vote because of the first (scum are doing well) part, but asked him if he realized it was maybe the second part ("not trying to turn the tide") which got him in the position he was in. Maybe it was easily misunderstood, but if you read more than the one post with the blue writing, you'll see plenty of my actual reasoning clearly spelled out on the same page and restated today. The vote Cookies ends up with doesn't matter in a tiebreaker. When I voted she had peaked at five. Spintari had five, Captain Pinkies had two (Ed had voted for him, but not unvoted Cookies yet. Still, his intention seemed clear) and there were more than three votes still to be cast. If I had voted Cap it would have taken two more votes on him to lynch Cookies. Maybe I should have voted someone else (and you could then ask me why I "threw away my vote"), but woulda, shoulda, coulda doesn't seem very productive. I voted where I thought it would do the most good. I was wrong. You don't seem reluctant to point out what you perceive as scummy, so why are you taking one part of one post, assigning a motive not there and ignoring everything else I say? It seems you've moved on (and I've got a lot more reading to do), but this annoyed me.
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Day 5
Aug 14, 2009 19:28:15 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 14, 2009 19:28:15 GMT -5
If you had voted elsewhere and not provided a reason, yes I would've accused you of throwing your vote away. If you had voted for me, but provided a reason, I would not have accused you of throwing it away though. I accused Spin of that in my vote for him on Day Three, and referenced it yesterDay in my vote on him again. Not voting, bandwagon voting or random voting with no reason is suspicious. Voting where your suspicions lie, even in the minority, while providing a case is not suspicious.
I understand your point about you think Cap could have gotten more votes to push the lynch on Cookies via a tie, so I'll drop that argument against you. And maybe I misunderstood the comment you made in reference to what Spin said. It was partly because you didn't specify what part of the quote you were referring too, so I assumed you meant all of it, which included his comment about the Scum doing exceptionally well. My bad.
And I wouldn't say I've moved on. Bill is the one in my sights at the moment, as I'm certain he's not Town. And while I suspicious of you a tad bit, I can't say one way or another how much I really suspect you.
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Day 5
Aug 14, 2009 20:12:01 GMT -5
Post by Dfrnt Breign on Aug 14, 2009 20:12:01 GMT -5
Fair enough. I see why you could misunderstand the comment to Spintari, I just felt I'd explained my reason for voting pretty well. But you aren't the first to point out I don't explain myself as clearly as I think I do.
I'm still not completely convinced of another faction, but discussion today is giving me a lot to think about (like I really needed that. My friends all want me to get killed so I'll STFU already.)
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Day 5
Aug 15, 2009 3:58:31 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Aug 15, 2009 3:58:31 GMT -5
We interrupt your regular viewing for this test of the Emergency Broadcast SystemI hope you are all sitting comfortably because this is going to come as a surprise to both the Establishment and Rebels. I am Damean, the Rebel Leader - TLV (from NAF's notebook) and I am a PeacekeeperHockeyGuy's behaviour over the last few days just confirms what I've known and suspected - the game is full of lies and deceit. Like HockeyGuy, I have had access to the Rebel night thread (yes, he's definitely a traitor to the Establishment and Rebels, and wants them all dead) - and yes we are aware of each other as "Rebels" - we aren't lurking on the Rebel thread. I am not going to out the rest of the Rebels. I know there are other Peacekeepers. - The Establishment win condition is "when the rebels are no longer a threat."
- The Rebels win condition is "when the Establishment is no longer a threat."
- The Peacekeepers win, as can the Establishment and Rebels, when there is a consecutive Day and Night with no attempted kills. ie we can all win by Peace.
However, there are anti-peace elements in the game: - Clearly our glorious Minister of War is anti-peace -- and must be dead for a peaceful solution.
- HockeyGuy's out-right anti-peacekeeper stance leads me to suspect that he may also need to be dead. Here he has been pushing for HM to be free to kill peacekeepers/rebels; while in the Rebel thread he has been pushing for HM to be free to kill Establishment. Either way, he has his own agenda. I also suspect that he is going to use his knowledge of who the other Rebels are as leverage - since he can out them all.
- Someone has the specific win condition of killing of me - my suspicions are HM/HG.
- Stanislaus (sorry) was going to go boom one way or another - it was just a matter of who he took with him - I was only hoping he would have taken HM with him.
In other news today: Yes I believe know who killed MHAYE - it was HockeyGuy. He claimed a one shot vig power (remember the speculation by him that one of the kills was one-shot?) - the Rebels agreed on a target. HockeyGuy unilaterally decided to take out MHAYE instead, which means Natlaw killed BufftabbyOf course, the alternative is even more trecherous, that HockeyGuy killed Bufftabby while Natlaw killed MHaye. Indeed, given his public "doubt" that Natlaw killed Bufftabby this may be what actually happened. By Night 2, all the "Rebels" bar one (go on, guess which one), had passed me their gold -- I would strongly believe that I had the most gold at that point - yet the Merc did not accept my bid - in fact it appears they did nothing. HockeyGuy's comment about the Merc only killing Rebels seems like PIS in this light. Julie has won the game (well done!) - she relieved me of the Rebel fortune. We're all playing for second place - peace or extermination. We now return to our scheduled programming
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Day 5
Aug 15, 2009 4:00:01 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Aug 15, 2009 4:00:01 GMT -5
Vote: HockeyMonkey
While HockeyGuy is pro-war, HM is the biggest threat to peace.
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Day 5
Aug 15, 2009 4:06:29 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Aug 15, 2009 4:06:29 GMT -5
And in my view, "peace" would be:
Day 5: Lynch HM Night 5: NK HG Day 6: No lynch -- and no "default lynch candidate" - everyone votes NO LYNCH Night 6: No NK
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Day 5
Aug 15, 2009 5:26:37 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Aug 15, 2009 5:26:37 GMT -5
Interesting. Were you ever transferred more than one piece of gold per cycle by any single other player?
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day 5
Aug 15, 2009 8:33:30 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Aug 15, 2009 8:33:30 GMT -5
I don't have to kill any specific person. If I am a barrier to the town win condition, then I won't stand in the way of a win. Having them all dead would mean they aren't a threat anymore, so it looks to me like I can win with the town if we kill all scum. Bill's logic fails. I'm just a barrier to the Peacekeepers win and the Rebels win, so please don't lynch me today.
It looks like we have a definite target for today and a possible target for tonight if I am not blocked. I've been trying to kill Bill for 4 nights now based on one comment he made on day one. He was referring to NAF's question about be suiciding if it was good for the town. Bill said something to the effect of "Yes, THIS is the key question." It pinged me enough to try for the kill. Every day since my suspicion has only grown stronger.
I say we kill Bill today, then decide on appropriate course of action per his statements based on his death reveal.
Vote: BillMc
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Day 5
Aug 15, 2009 10:11:23 GMT -5
Post by Nanook on Aug 15, 2009 10:11:23 GMT -5
So your claim is that you're basically a traitor Rebel that also happens to be a Peacekeeper? And that HG is also a traitor Rebel? Uh huh. Sure.
Vote: BillMC
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Day 5
Aug 15, 2009 12:28:03 GMT -5
Post by Mister Blockey on Aug 15, 2009 12:28:03 GMT -5
well I came to reread the day thread and try to come up with something useful and then I saw that message from BillMC
It's an interesting statement, however unfortunately if I'm going to believe you I'm going to have to see your death info.
Vote BillMC
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Day 5
Aug 15, 2009 13:27:45 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 15, 2009 13:27:45 GMT -5
We interrupt your regular viewing for this test of the Emergency Broadcast SystemI hope you are all sitting comfortably because this is going to come as a surprise to both the Establishment and Rebels. I am Damean, the Rebel Leader - TLV (from NAF's notebook) and I am a PeacekeeperHockeyGuy's behaviour over the last few days just confirms what I've known and suspected - the game is full of lies and deceit. Like HockeyGuy, I have had access to the Rebel night thread (yes, he's definitely a traitor to the Establishment and Rebels, and wants them all dead) - and yes we are aware of each other as "Rebels" - we aren't lurking on the Rebel thread. I am not going to out the rest of the Rebels. I know there are other Peacekeepers. - The Establishment win condition is "when the rebels are no longer a threat."
- The Rebels win condition is "when the Establishment is no longer a threat."
- The Peacekeepers win, as can the Establishment and Rebels, when there is a consecutive Day and Night with no attempted kills. ie we can all win by Peace.
However, there are anti-peace elements in the game: - Clearly our glorious Minister of War is anti-peace -- and must be dead for a peaceful solution.
- HockeyGuy's out-right anti-peacekeeper stance leads me to suspect that he may also need to be dead. Here he has been pushing for HM to be free to kill peacekeepers/rebels; while in the Rebel thread he has been pushing for HM to be free to kill Establishment. Either way, he has his own agenda. I also suspect that he is going to use his knowledge of who the other Rebels are as leverage - since he can out them all.
- Someone has the specific win condition of killing of me - my suspicions are HM/HG.
- Stanislaus (sorry) was going to go boom one way or another - it was just a matter of who he took with him - I was only hoping he would have taken HM with him.
In other news today: Yes I believe know who killed MHAYE - it was HockeyGuy. He claimed a one shot vig power (remember the speculation by him that one of the kills was one-shot?) - the Rebels agreed on a target. HockeyGuy unilaterally decided to take out MHAYE instead, which means Natlaw killed BufftabbyOf course, the alternative is even more trecherous, that HockeyGuy killed Bufftabby while Natlaw killed MHaye. Indeed, given his public "doubt" that Natlaw killed Bufftabby this may be what actually happened. By Night 2, all the "Rebels" bar one (go on, guess which one), had passed me their gold -- I would strongly believe that I had the most gold at that point - yet the Merc did not accept my bid - in fact it appears they did nothing. HockeyGuy's comment about the Merc only killing Rebels seems like PIS in this light. Julie has won the game (well done!) - she relieved me of the Rebel fortune. We're all playing for second place - peace or extermination. We now return to our scheduled programming Wow. And here I was thinking I wouldn't need to check the board on my birthday and just enjoy, but I figured, what the hell, might as well peek my head in. I'm glad I did, and I find it insanely convenient that Bill is a traitor Rebel who is trying to bus me in turn for busing him? The fact that Bill claimed that practically kills me. He can't expect a claim like that to allow him to live. And upon his death I know he'll be shown as a Rebel traitor. Why? Well because of my role... Yeah, I might as well role claim too. I am the Minister of Information and Secretary to the Minister of Defense.Basically my role is two parts. First is the Information part. Every Night Hawk would PM me with a little slice of information. One that, alone, isn't of much use to me. I'll list my information in a minute. Second, the Defense part means I'm a back-up vig to HM. Upon her death I drop the information gathering and take over her role of killing someone every Night. See, HM is my father (I find it funny that HM is actually female, but I digress). Luckily for us both, she hasn't died yet, which means I've been able to gather information. Thirdly, I lied about my win con. I need all the Rebels dead. I can't just have them "not be a threat". Which is why I've been pushing for anti-peace. So what have I gathered every Night for four Nights? Well this: Night 1: Some Town don't share your win con. (Not important, as I gathered that when I saw my win con was different than the Vanilla). Night 2: The Peacekeepers can steal the win from some Town, but not all. (Well, since I needed the Rebels dead, not just pacified, I didn't see this as helpful to me, as I'm still Town, just not "Peaceful".) Night 3: Some Rebels want Peace. (This spurred my rant on Day Four about the possibly of some Rebels wanting Peace. This is also what spurred my case on Bill as I was certain he wasn't Town, but was acting like a Peacekeeper. I figured he was one of the Rebel(s) that wanted Peace). Night 4: The Rebel Leader is a Peacekeeper. (Why I went after Bill so hard. I figured he had to be it, as he was playing Scummy, while pushing for Peace). I just find it hilarious that HM and myself were both going after the same person. I should also note that I did NOT know who the Minister of Defense was. My PM just told me he was my father, and I'd take over for him. If HM knew about me, I don't know either. Also, this WILL be my last post until tomorrow night at the earliest. So I'll address anything then.
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Day 5
Aug 15, 2009 13:33:06 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 15, 2009 13:33:06 GMT -5
Heh, I forgot to address this, as Bill continues to say I said this.
First off. I never said that the Merc could only kill Rebels. Secondly, I denied that in my last post, which you never addressed.
Please, tell me where I said that? I'd love to know.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
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Day 5
Aug 15, 2009 14:11:02 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Aug 15, 2009 14:11:02 GMT -5
The only issue I have with your claim Hockeyguy is that I'm the Minister of War, not the Minister of Defense. I'm not 100% sure I believe all of your claim, but I am 100% sure that BillMc needs to die.
The hard part tonight will be deciding who to target.
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Day 5
Aug 15, 2009 14:41:20 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Aug 15, 2009 14:41:20 GMT -5
Assuming Angel lets you out of your favorite room.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
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Day 5
Aug 15, 2009 15:28:55 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Aug 15, 2009 15:28:55 GMT -5
I think she said upthread that she would let me go tonight.
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Day 5
Aug 15, 2009 22:09:59 GMT -5
Post by pumpjack on Aug 15, 2009 22:09:59 GMT -5
I don't have to kill any specific person. If I am a barrier to the town win condition, then I won't stand in the way of a win. Having them all dead would mean they aren't a threat anymore, so it looks to me like I can win with the town if we kill all scum. Bill's logic fails. I'm just a barrier to the Peacekeepers win and the Rebels win, so please don't lynch me today. It looks like we have a definite target for today and a possible target for tonight if I am not blocked. I've been trying to kill Bill for 4 nights now based on one comment he made on day one. He was referring to NAF's question about be suiciding if it was good for the town. Bill said something to the effect of "Yes, THIS is the key question." It pinged me enough to try for the kill. Every day since my suspicion has only grown stronger. I say we kill Bill today, then decide on appropriate course of action per his statements based on his death reveal. Vote: BillMc I went back and read Day 1 and read Bill's 'Key Question'. Are you saying that NAF's question and question and question about suicide was easier to take than Bill's one question? And what's an appropriate course of action based on his death reveal? Maybe Archangel because she can hold you at night and keep you from your wncon and jail the last rebel? How about a handshaker, their wincons use the word 'threat' instead of dead? Maybe Peeker for questioning your eyesight? If BillMC is telling the truth, you still wouldn't shoot MonkeyGuy, would you? I mean... you share his wincon. I don't trust you and I really don't trust the "Secretary to the Minister of Defense" (his recollection of Days 1 & 2 weren't so honest either). So I'm willing to give Peace a chance. Vote: HockeyMonkey And I hope that the roleblocker(s) in this game never let you fire a shot. Are these the Contrarian/3rd party candidates?
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Day 5
Aug 16, 2009 1:43:54 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 16, 2009 1:43:54 GMT -5
The only issue I have with your claim Hockeyguy is that I'm the Minister of War, not the Minister of Defense. I'm not 100% sure I believe all of your claim, but I am 100% sure that BillMc needs to die. The hard part tonight will be deciding who to target. Ok, I got home early as I decided not to crash at my friends house tonight. Better to sleep in my own bed I say... Anyways, to address your post. My mistake, I meant to say Minister of War, but I was in a rush to type that up as I was leaving my girlfriends house I never went back to read through it.
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Day 5
Aug 16, 2009 4:30:50 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Aug 16, 2009 4:30:50 GMT -5
Michael Crichton would be very pleased with your work of fiction. It's about as believable as most of his. The fact that Bill claimed that practically kills me. He can't expect a claim like that to allow him to live. And upon his death I know he'll be shown as a Rebel traitor. For Peace, it doesn't matter whether I live or die. On death I will be shown to be a Peacekeeper. The only reason why you wouldn't care whether I flip Rebel or Peacekeeper is that I believe you have a personal win condition of killing the Rebel Leader - because if the game doesn't end with my death, the rest of the Rebels who you have betrayed, will no doubt NK you. I am the Minister of Information and Secretary to the Minister of Defense. You've subsequently back peddled and changed Defense to War -- you screwed up your bogus claim straight off the bat. Basically my role is two parts. First is the Information part. Every Night Hawk would PM me with a little slice of information. One that, alone, isn't of much use to me. I'll list my information in a minute. So you are claiming you are an investigative role that has to do absolutely nothing to be spoon fed key pieces of information by the Mods. I'm sorry, but I would scream Gastard at that. If you were alignment/role investigator, watcher/tracker, listener - anything to actually do something with some element of chance I might have actually believed you -- but just to sit back and have the Mods tell you everything is just unbelievable. Second, the Defense part means I'm a back-up vig to HM. Upon her death I drop the information gathering and take over her role of killing someone every Night. See, HM is my father (I find it funny that HM is actually female, but I digress). Luckily for us both, she hasn't died yet, which means I've been able to gather information. You are a back up to a compulsory vig? I have to give you points here for originality. One compulsory vig can seriously screw up a game, but two? pretty much guaranteeing that town get a second kill every day. I haven't a clue what the JSP value of a backup compulsory vig would be, or even how you would balance that. We've just seen in the Princess Bride game on the Giraffe how screwed up things can get with the Scum getting multiple kills every night. Thirdly, I lied about my win con. I need all the Rebels dead. I can't just have them "not be a threat". Which is why I've been pushing for anti-peace. If you are indeed Establishment, why the need to lie about your win con? You gain zero town cred by lying about it to the town -- of course, you gain rebel cred by lying to the rebels. So what have I gathered every Night for four Nights? Well this: Night 1: Some Town don't share your win con. (Not important, as I gathered that when I saw my win con was different than the Vanilla). Night 2: The Peacekeepers can steal the win from some Town, but not all. (Well, since I needed the Rebels dead, not just pacified, I didn't see this as helpful to me, as I'm still Town, just not "Peaceful".) Night 3: Some Rebels want Peace. (This spurred my rant on Day Four about the possibly of some Rebels wanting Peace. This is also what spurred my case on Bill as I was certain he wasn't Town, but was acting like a Peacekeeper. I figured he was one of the Rebel(s) that wanted Peace). Night 4: The Rebel Leader is a Peacekeeper. (Why I went after Bill so hard. I figured he had to be it, as he was playing Scummy, while pushing for Peace). Hold the front page - you've stated nothing that was not already public speculation or contained in my claim. Now if the mods were spoon feeding you the plot, surely they would have at least managed one little factoid that I didn't include in my claim? And with all the speculation on who the peacekeepers are, are they another faction, are they a threat, the mods turn round and tell you outright? I should also note that I did NOT know who the Minister of Defense was. My PM just told me he was my father, and I'd take over for him. If HM knew about me, I don't know either. Defense again eh? just not a single slip - a double slip. You are lying to both the Establishment and to the Rebels. Indeed, while the rules say we cannot post PM's - they don't say I cannot quote/post all of your posts from the Rebel board.
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Day 5
Aug 16, 2009 4:31:40 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Aug 16, 2009 4:31:40 GMT -5
Interesting. Were you ever transferred more than one piece of gold per cycle by any single other player? No idea - all I know is N players said they were going to transfer their gold to me. I got N-1 pieces. Today I received a PM from Hawk saying I been robbed. And I need to have a "Doh! I hate dyslexia" moment here - I had put in my notes that I had bid for the Merc to kill Nanook, but I see from my messages I actually put the bid in for Natlaw -- no wonder there was no Merc kill on Night 2 -- I put the highest bid in for him to kill himself.
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Day 5
Aug 16, 2009 5:47:13 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Aug 16, 2009 5:47:13 GMT -5
And in my view, "peace" would be: Day 5: Lynch HM Night 5: NK HG Day 6: No lynch -- and no "default lynch candidate" - everyone votes NO LYNCH Night 6: No NK Actually there is an alternative peace plan, which would address the "we can't trust the Rebels" argument Day 5: Lynch HM - sorry - you have to go for Peace, no way round it Night 5: The Rebels do not NK Day 6: If the Rebel's don't NK, then we vote NO LYNCH If the Rebels do kill on Night 5 - then peace has no chance - and you can blow each other to kingdom come :-)
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Day 5
Aug 16, 2009 10:02:42 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 16, 2009 10:02:42 GMT -5
Michael Crichton would be very pleased with your work of fiction. It's about as believable as most of his. The fact that Bill claimed that practically kills me. He can't expect a claim like that to allow him to live. And upon his death I know he'll be shown as a Rebel traitor. For Peace, it doesn't matter whether I live or die. On death I will be shown to be a Peacekeeper. The only reason why you wouldn't care whether I flip Rebel or Peacekeeper is that I believe you have a personal win condition of killing the Rebel Leader - because if the game doesn't end with my death, the rest of the Rebels who you have betrayed, will no doubt NK you. How would you JSP a Rebel Leader, who is ALSO a Peacekeeper? One player on two different factions? Or if you are solely a Peacekeeper, what's the point value of someone who knows all the Rebels, yet isn't with them, but said to be their leader? Seriously, what's the point value on that? And on top of that, if I lied and am part of the Rebels and another traitor, what's the point value for TWO traitors? In my eyes it appears my role perfectly balances yours. There's a Traitor Rebel, who is the Leader of them, but also a Peacekeeper. That's a pretty powerful role. So enter me. My role let's me gain information about you, and gives me NKs when HM dies, maybe so I can kill you? My role is here specifically to kill you. My wincon is that I win when all the Rebels are dead, but I receive something if I can kill the Rebel Leader in the process. I assume that is because you're in fact not a Rebel at all, and a Peacekeeper, so killing all the other Rebels means me and HM would fill our win con of all the true Rebels being dead, and the Establishment wouldn't have to worry about that threat. I'm also assuming I don't get my reward or whatever it is for leading a lynch on you, as I didn't kill you outright, but we'll see. As far as I can tell, the Scum only get one kill a Night. HM is Establishment.
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Day 5
Aug 16, 2009 10:08:44 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 16, 2009 10:08:44 GMT -5
And in my view, "peace" would be: Day 5: Lynch HM Night 5: NK HG Day 6: No lynch -- and no "default lynch candidate" - everyone votes NO LYNCH Night 6: No NK Actually there is an alternative peace plan, which would address the "we can't trust the Rebels" argument Day 5: Lynch HM - sorry - you have to go for Peace, no way round it Night 5: The Rebels do not NK Day 6: If the Rebel's don't NK, then we vote NO LYNCH If the Rebels do kill on Night 5 - then peace has no chance - and you can blow each other to kingdom come :-) You, so know the Rebels won't NK me? Well they had better, as there's no way in hell I'm voting a No Lynch on Day Six. But this is all moot as there's no way they don't NK on N5. There's also HM killing on N5, unless she's blocked again. But we've established that at this point, blocking HM is anti-Town. So if AA is indeed a PK with you, might want to relay the message on your PK board to her about it. If you can talk during the Day.
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Day 5
Aug 16, 2009 13:15:02 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Aug 16, 2009 13:15:02 GMT -5
How would you JSP a Rebel Leader, who is ALSO a Peacekeeper? One player on two different factions? Or if you are solely a Peacekeeper, what's the point value of someone who knows all the Rebels, yet isn't with them, but said to be their leader? Seriously, what's the point value on that? And on top of that, if I lied and am part of the Rebels and another traitor, what's the point value for TWO traitors? In my eyes it appears my role perfectly balances yours. There's a Traitor Rebel, who is the Leader of them, but also a Peacekeeper. That's a pretty powerful role. So enter me. My role let's me gain information about you, and gives me NKs when HM dies, maybe so I can kill you? Actually it is not that uncommon - there have been several previous games where one of the masons has secretly been scum with access to the Mason board. The point is that you do nothing for your role - you are spoon fed the information. My role is here specifically to kill you. My wincon is that I win when all the Rebels are dead, but I receive something if I can kill the Rebel Leader in the process. You're changing your claim again? You're now claiming that you are specifically after the rebel leader and that you get an easter egg for it. I'm also assuming I don't get my reward or whatever it is for leading a lynch on you, as I didn't kill you outright, but we'll see. Well if I was HM I would now be worried - so you are now saying that you think you only get your "reward" if you actually kill me - which means - if we believe your claim - HG needs to be dead for you to become a compulsory vig and take your shot. Interesting that you said on Day 1 on the Rebel board that we should kill HM by Day 5, and indeed you were pushing for it again last Night. For someone who is supposedly pro-establishment, your claim and role read like a National Enquirer article. Empty threat. You and I both know there's nothing there to post, and you also know that you wouldn't be able to do that. I would perceive posting straight off the Scum board as a violation. Nope - not empty - and you know I can. Indeed, if it were an empty threat, why would you care if it was a "violation" - that fact that you think it is a "violation" indicates that you do have something to hide and want to twist the rules to protect your false claim. Here's a suggestion. List the other Rebels. We'll lynch them, and right before the last one, maybe we'll consider Peace. Fair? Well you know who else has access to the Rebel board, just as I do. And I'll repeat my previous statement, I will not reveal the other Rebels.
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Day 5
Aug 16, 2009 13:15:51 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Aug 16, 2009 13:15:51 GMT -5
You, so know the Rebels won't NK me? Well they had better, as there's no way in hell I'm voting a No Lynch on Day Six. But this is all moot as there's no way they don't NK on N5. There's also HM killing on N5, unless she's blocked again. But we've established that at this point, blocking HM is anti-Town. So if AA is indeed a PK with you, might want to relay the message on your PK board to her about it. If you can talk during the Day. As I said, if the majority of the folk with access to the Rebel board are in favour of a peaceful solution then there will be no NK. Well I'm kinda hoping, given her actions to date, that Archangel is in favour of a peaceful solution and will throw you in jail for the day and solve the problem. Otherwise, if you are the only person pushing for a non-peaceful solution, then we lynch you day 6, don't NK on N6, no lynch on D7.
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Day 5
Aug 16, 2009 14:06:15 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 16, 2009 14:06:15 GMT -5
How would you JSP a Rebel Leader, who is ALSO a Peacekeeper? One player on two different factions? Or if you are solely a Peacekeeper, what's the point value of someone who knows all the Rebels, yet isn't with them, but said to be their leader? Seriously, what's the point value on that? And on top of that, if I lied and am part of the Rebels and another traitor, what's the point value for TWO traitors? In my eyes it appears my role perfectly balances yours. There's a Traitor Rebel, who is the Leader of them, but also a Peacekeeper. That's a pretty powerful role. So enter me. My role let's me gain information about you, and gives me NKs when HM dies, maybe so I can kill you? Actually it is not that uncommon - there have been several previous games where one of the masons has secretly been scum with access to the Mason board. The point is that you do nothing for your role - you are spoon fed the information. Except the information I'm told doesn't help me in any way if I can't use it. Which I can't, unless HM is dead, and at that point I won't receive any more information No. I claimed that in ADDITION to what I already told you, that if I was the SOLE killer of the Rebel Leader I would earn some sort of reward. I have no idea what it is. Maybe it's an extra gold piece, who knows. And I'll never know because you're going toDay, and not by me alone. Which is what I want to happen, as I built a case on you to lynch toDay. Yes, I want the Scum to NK HM tomorrow so I can take my shot at the already dead Bill on Night Seven. Oh wait, you're going to die toDay, so why would HM be worried? If you're already dead, how can I kill you a second time, thus earning my reward? I'm throwing my potential reward away by admitting my role and pushing your lynch toDay. Besides, why would I want HM dead when she's the #1 person I trust. Seeing as how my ROLE TOLD ME there was a Minister of War, and she wasn't counter-claimed. I KNOW she's genuine. Blah, blah. I can't disprove, and you can't prove any of that "Mafia private board" bull you're spewing. Quit talking and start walking. You want to post these alleged posts of mine, do it. Just thought I'd ask.
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Day 5
Aug 16, 2009 14:15:19 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 16, 2009 14:15:19 GMT -5
You, so know the Rebels won't NK me? Well they had better, as there's no way in hell I'm voting a No Lynch on Day Six. But this is all moot as there's no way they don't NK on N5. There's also HM killing on N5, unless she's blocked again. But we've established that at this point, blocking HM is anti-Town. So if AA is indeed a PK with you, might want to relay the message on your PK board to her about it. If you can talk during the Day. As I said, if the majority of the folk with access to the Rebel board are in favour of a peaceful solution then there will be no NK. So the Rebels can win by Peace too? Why do they kill us every Night? If they can win by Peace, why are you a Traitor and a Peacekeeper? I would strongly advise no Town players to vote a No Lynch unless the Scum offer no kills in advance. And we all know that will never happen. I hope she does too. I'll be safe from the lynch, and HM will be free to NK. If the Scum then kill HM, I can NK the next Night in her place unless AA blocks me, in which I'll advocate No Lynch on Day Seven. If you and your Rebels buddies want me dead you'll have kill me toNight. But that still won't stop your peace agenda as HM will be on the loose, unless AA blocks her again, but oh wait, that'd have her admitting to being Scum, as we've already made note that allowing HM to be blocked every Night is Scummy. Yeah, go ahead, lynch me tomorrow. If AA blocks HM on N6 or N7 then I'd advise everyone to lynch AA the next day.
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Day 5
Aug 16, 2009 14:17:13 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 16, 2009 14:17:13 GMT -5
I hope she does too. I'll be safe from the lynch, and HM will be free to NK. If the Scum then kill HM, I can NK the next Night in her place unless AA blocks me, in which I'll advocate No Lynch on Day Seven. If you and your Rebels buddies want me dead you'll have kill me toNight. But that still won't stop your peace agenda as HM will be on the loose, unless AA blocks her again, but oh wait, that'd have her admitting to being Scum, as we've already made note that allowing HM to be blocked every Night is Scummy.
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Day 5
Aug 16, 2009 14:22:25 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Aug 16, 2009 14:22:25 GMT -5
*queue tennis match sound effect*
Considering that the conversation about the "pro-towniness" of Archangel took place prior to Bill and HG's claims and posting tet a tet, I think everyone, including her needs to take a second look at what she should do.
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Day 5
Aug 16, 2009 14:23:03 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Aug 16, 2009 14:23:03 GMT -5
That should read:
Considering that the conversation about the "pro-towniness" of Archangel leaving HockeyMonkey alone took place prior to Bill and HG's claims and posting tet a tet, I think everyone, including her needs to take a second look at what she should do.
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Day 5
Aug 16, 2009 17:29:00 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Aug 16, 2009 17:29:00 GMT -5
That should read: Considering that the conversation about the "pro-towniness" of Archangel leaving HockeyMonkey alone took place prior to Bill and HG's claims and posting tet a tet, I think everyone, including her needs to take a second look at what she should do. I agree that she needs to relook at everything now that Bill and I have both claimed. In fact, everyone should. As for what she should do though... After tomorrow Night we're down to at least 10 players left. Nine if she allows HM to kill and HM and the Scum both pick different players and both kills go through. Bill's earlier scenarios of only 2-3 Scum remaining are probably false. I have a very hard time believe the scenarios he listed prior to his claim. Especially the parts on the remaining PK numbers. He said three of them were left. In light of this I believe we have more Scum than 2-3 remaining. Especially if you factor in a Traitor Scum. I'd guess four at the least, but most likely. Five if you include Bill in that number. That would leave us at 7-5 right now if you want to leave the PKs as Establishment right now, or 5-2-5 (Town-PK-Scum) if you separate them at a worst case, 7-1-4 at best case (7Town-1PK-4 Scum). I'll make a chart, worst case then best case. After toDay (If Bill goes): 5-1-5 or 7-0-4 N6 (without HM killing): 4-1-5, (5-0-5) or 6-0-4. N6 (with HM killing): 3-1-5 (if both hit Town), 4-0-4 or 6-0-2. If HM doesn't kill toNight, I don't see how we can win. Worst case scenario says we tie. Best says we're up two, one mislynch and we're tied. This is the exact reason I see Bill pushing hard for Peace. He knows it's his last chance for that. We need to let HM do her business and hope she has a good read on someone. If we do hold HM back one more Night, we can't on Night Seven if we miss again tomorrow.
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