Meeko
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I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 0:56:48 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 3, 2009 0:56:48 GMT -5
I don't know how to reconcile that Boozy.
Shades of OMGUS from you. I might not have voted you, but you are calling me out for similar reasons.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 2:47:08 GMT -5
Post by PrecambrianMollusc on Sept 3, 2009 2:47:08 GMT -5
Back to the mass claim from C2 If my memory serves me correctly the cabal were down to one player and the wolves were down to one player, and I think the undead were done for. A mass claim was played and given the number of town roles that had been confirmed/reasonably accepted as true claims, it was just a numbers game to lynch through the rest. Cabal and Wolves resigned rather than drag out the inevitable, plus the game had been going for a long time by that point. So yeah mass claim at the end may work, certainly not up front. I took the may be limited recruitment comments to be that the people recruited by the undead were going to win with Undead, which I think was what happened in C2.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 2:49:06 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Sept 3, 2009 2:49:06 GMT -5
These votes make no sense to me. This is my first game with Meeko (I think), but at least he's here, which is way way WAY more desirable than not participating at all, no matter what his alignment is. Nothing he has said so far seems anti-town to me. Fluffy with a crunchy recruitment conjecture center covered in weird, but otherwise unremarkable. Y'all wouldn't be dragging little duffle bags full or grudges along with you, would you? Same here. I wonder if Ed and Boozahol are reading a different thread than I am. Y'all wouldn't be dragging little duffle bags full or grudges along with you, would you? MHaye, is that you? It's not a grudge thing, it's just a combination of being in another game with the guy, and seeing the same sort of behvior here from him. Meeko needs to learn to calm down, and keep his posts focused on the game. For all RoOsh's verbal diarrhea (I still love you, Rooshie-baby!), he kept on track. Meeko doesn't. Until I see focus from the guy, I'm going to think he's a good Day One lynch. Day Two and onwards, I hope to have a little more information. But for right now, it's just a gut instinct kinda thing. I think that's dumb. You don't like the way a player plays so you think he's a good lynch? You say he's a distraction and brings in a lot of other things than the game. I haven't seen this yet and I think it's a pretty poor reason for voting for someone.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 3:15:53 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Sept 3, 2009 3:15:53 GMT -5
I remember the debate about mass-claiming on Day 1 of C2 because I pushed it quite hard.
It also involved allowing the certain of the power roles (ie. the witches) to deviate from the truth while forcing all the scum players to choose a role up front.
Would it work?
Well, not really. The game is fairly finely balanced and could go either way but is more likely than not to lead to a town loss.
The same goes for a mass truthful claim in the event the scum sides all decide to be honest. The town is likely to be stuffed but a winner would depend upon the scum sides as to how they decide to pick each other off.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 3:21:27 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Sept 3, 2009 3:21:27 GMT -5
Same here. I wonder if Ed and Boozahol are reading a different thread than I am. The thread(s) are on the Dope I think that's dumb. You don't like the way a player plays so you think he's a good lynch? You say he's a distraction and brings in a lot of other things than the game. I haven't seen this yet and I think it's a pretty poor reason for voting for someone. Maybe we need an enhancement of MHaye's "don't carry grudges" speech -- "don't assume Meeko will play the same way here as he does on the Dope (fingers crossed)" :-)
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 3:22:47 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Sept 3, 2009 3:22:47 GMT -5
The other thing to notice is the game has limited recruitment This is likely to mean the rules for gaining recruits is back in from C1 and my guess on the special powers is that the three scum sides can recruit with some restrictions. Although that will lead to slightly smaller scum teams at the outset. Hmm, rough guess of 25 players split down is: 13 town 4 Cabal 5 Wolves 3 undead
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Merestil Haye
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Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 4:39:00 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 3, 2009 4:39:00 GMT -5
The example I like to use is Roosh's fake claim in Firefly, which kept him alive long enough to activate his backup investigator status. And we mods got a kick out of it. It also caused the entirety of Day 3, in which Ui (remember him) attacked Roosh for lying, and wasted a Day.
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Merestil Haye
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 4:58:06 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 3, 2009 4:58:06 GMT -5
Aaand, I haven't said my usual piece. Don't hold grudges. Grudges are bad. Grudges put blinkers on your mind's eye, so you see less than you need to. You wind up voting for poor reasons, and losing the game for your side. Just don't do it, ok?
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 5:42:34 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 3, 2009 5:42:34 GMT -5
since my name is getting used i'll feel free to pipe right in. People tell me I am a Peeker / Roosh / Seeker. I don't think there is anything I can do, or say, that will remove that distinction. I frankly wouldn't want to remove it. i'll leave the other two out of it since i certainly can't speak for them. if my memory is at all correct i have played in one game with you. i seem to remember that i was a replacement and walked into the middle of it. we went round and round. because of where i was it was all a blur but i really didn't take anything away from it. from what i have read, anecdotally, you seem to play like i used to. this game is for my entertainment and the rest of the supporting cast is merely to further that entertainment. i like to think that i have moved past that and that i can still be entertained without the necessity of it always being about me. however, that's my pov (the moving on part) and others may disagree. i do know this, is that my pov evolved over time and sure as hell didn't happen just because i was being chastised for it. For ease of conversation, I can refer to myself in the third, to get at my entire syle of play. Honestly, frankly, I would bet that more Peeker and Meeko players would help Mafia, not take away from it. We [I am going to go ahead and call it a quartet, having never even played with Seeker] think of things differently, and come up with things that most people never think to think. That, or we all have A.D.D. hey, a lot of us use an affectation. i don't capitalize (or rarely) so who gives a fuck. third person, meh. i'll willingly accept the second point. i'd rather slog through pages of seemingly mindless drivel than stare at a blank screen. but i know that's me and others would disagree. i've noticed what ed brought up earlier. the level of participation sure seems to cool down quickly after Day one. personally, i don't care for it. Day four (five?) of NSFW would have been less than a page if ed and i hadn't been slinging shit at each other all Day. Furthermore, I know that my play is improving, and you even stated that I am making sense to you today. I take that as a victory. Small, but there. i am not in a position to make an objective conclusion regarding this. however, the self awareness of the need for improvement (injecting a little) certainly lends itself to at least the possibility of improvement.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 5:48:48 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 3, 2009 5:48:48 GMT -5
Remember, in this game there's a faction that just has to kill all the Witches and then can play as perfect Townies to steal the win away from us. If a Witch claims, they're in danger from a possible one-off kill from the Cabal, or from being hunted by the Wolves (it seems to me that the Undead have much less reason to go after Witches, from my past experience as both a Witch and as a Vamp). <snipped and bolding mine> i thought the cabal could only block?
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 6:46:20 GMT -5
Post by special on Sept 3, 2009 6:46:20 GMT -5
Can someone, anyone, please tell me how simply providing information about my avatar is a distraction? The way I see it, if I tell you guys what it is, in a post where I address other things, it saves time, and works out to be less distracting. But, no, apparently, actually saving time, and being less distracting, is a distraction. Worse, it leads to unjustifiable votes. Because your avatar has nothing to do with this game. Therefore discussion of your avatar distracts us from the game at hand. I don't mind an offhand comment or tow here or there, but you tend to take something not related to the game and go on and on about it. I am telling you that doing so is distracting and anti-Town. I'm confused why you don't understand that your avatar, geocaching, GPS, and the like are NOT involved in this game.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 6:48:19 GMT -5
Post by special on Sept 3, 2009 6:48:19 GMT -5
Y'all wouldn't be dragging little duffle bags full or grudges along with you, would you? You would have to ask Ed. From where I am, it looks like he is out for blood. Apparently, Ed is allergic to learning new things. [Like Geocaching] Ed, are you really that sore at me, from older games? Boozy? You are voting me and then stating that you wish you hadn't? No, I'm not sore at you at all. I'm trying to get your attention and point out to you that you need to stay focused on the game. I figured the best way was to point out how your posts often contain things that distract us from the game at hand. I voted you for it because it is anti-Town and also a way to bring your anti-Town play into attention in the hopes that it would sink in and you would stop being so anti-Town.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 6:51:52 GMT -5
Post by special on Sept 3, 2009 6:51:52 GMT -5
These votes make no sense to me. This is my first game with Meeko (I think), but at least he's here, which is way way WAY more desirable than not participating at all, no matter what his alignment is. Nothing he has said so far seems anti-town to me. Fluffy with a crunchy recruitment conjecture center covered in weird, but otherwise unremarkable. Y'all wouldn't be dragging little duffle bags full or grudges along with you, would you? Same here. I wonder if Ed and Boozahol are reading a different thread than I am. MHaye, is that you? It's not a grudge thing, it's just a combination of being in another game with the guy, and seeing the same sort of behvior here from him. Meeko needs to learn to calm down, and keep his posts focused on the game. For all RoOsh's verbal diarrhea (I still love you, Rooshie-baby!), he kept on track. Meeko doesn't. Until I see focus from the guy, I'm going to think he's a good Day One lynch. Day Two and onwards, I hope to have a little more information. But for right now, it's just a gut instinct kinda thing. I think that's dumb. You don't like the way a player plays so you think he's a good lynch? You say he's a distraction and brings in a lot of other things than the game. I haven't seen this yet and I think it's a pretty poor reason for voting for someone. I can appreciate your point. I've seen games where Meeko has been allowed to 'just be Meeko" He's been Scum MVP in those games despite being a Mason in one and a Town Vig in the other. IN both games, he was mostly confirmed and so not a lynch target, and the Scum didn't NK him early because he was such a distraction So, yes, my opinion is probably biased, and my vote is intended to call his attention to how anti-Town his playstyle is and try to convince him not to repeat it in this game.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 7:49:04 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Sept 3, 2009 7:49:04 GMT -5
Remember, in this game there's a faction that just has to kill all the Witches and then can play as perfect Townies to steal the win away from us. If a Witch claims, they're in danger from a possible one-off kill from the Cabal, or from being hunted by the Wolves (it seems to me that the Undead have much less reason to go after Witches, from my past experience as both a Witch and as a Vamp). <snipped and bolding mine> i thought the cabal could only block? In the last game, the special power of the Cabal was a one-off kill. Of course, we may not have any witches in the game, in which case all the cabal have to do is kill off the wolves and undead and survive to tell the tale. The town would be of no consequence.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 8:08:25 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Sept 3, 2009 8:08:25 GMT -5
Again, speaking as someone who has done just this in past games as Town, I disagree..and obviously (since I'm telling you it happened), you'd have lynched a Town. Sometimes there is good reason to lie. Oh, good, we're starting in with this conversation again. I think my stance has evolved, but ultimately I am still with Paul: lynch all liars. If you lie, and unless you have a fully confirmable role, you should be lynched, or killed by alternative means if such are available. No exceptions (again, other than a fully confirmable role), no hedges, no nuances. I have come to accept the idea that there are times that it is beneficial to the Town for a Town player to lie. They are few and far between, but they exist. But: if you are Town and decide to lie, you must take into account as part of your calculus in making that decision the likelihood that you will be lynched if your lie is discovered. If your lie isn't valuable enough to be worth your eventual death if it's revealed, then your lie isn't valuable enough. Because from a Town perspective, we have no choice: all liars must die. This is not to penalize the player who lies, nor to punish bad play (as I have already conceded that lying may not be bad play for a Town player). The reason for my rigid kill all liars stance is simple: if you lie, as Town, the rest of us have no way of knowing that you are Town. We must distinguish the Scum from the Town; the former will generally have to lie at some point. Thus we draw a bright line in the sand: if you lie, and you are caught doing so, you die without fail. Will this approach result in mislynches from time to time? Yes. But if we lynch, on principle, four revealed liars in the course of a game, I will personally bet that three of the four - at minimum - will be Scum. And will I trade one mislynch for three sucessful lynches? Absolutely.Lynch all liars. Give no hiding place to the Scum who need to lie, no way to finesse the game. If you are Town - even if you are an investigator - and you decide to lie, be aware that you might die if you're caught. And if Town - even investigator Town - dies as a result of this policy, tough crap. An approach to the game that creates an inhospitable environment for Scum liars is worth much more than any investigator.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 8:16:53 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Sept 3, 2009 8:16:53 GMT -5
So, Special Ed, have you noticed that you have spent three pages going on and on about how Meeko's out-of-game discussion is a distraction, all this talk about how Meeko plays just distracts us from the real game, and meanwhile all you yourself have been doing is... talking about how Meeko plays?
Because to me, it looks like you're feeding him, trying to swell the degree to which Day One will be All About Meeko rather than about anything game-related.
Which is enough for me, in this inevitably weird and complicated game, to
vote Special Ed
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Meeko
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I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 9:21:52 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 3, 2009 9:21:52 GMT -5
I'm trying to get your attention and point out to you that you need to stay focused on the game. I figured the best way was to point out how your posts often contain things that distract us from the game at hand. I voted you for it because it is anti-Town and also a way to bring your anti-Town play into attention in the hopes that it would sink in and you would stop being so anti-Town. Insane, Incredible, and Wild leap there my friend. So, to be clear, your vote has NOTHING to do with my game play. You could have gotten my attention, with out the vote. Instead, you now have me affraid to post anything. You may hate Meeko, but, would you hate him more if he lurks?
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 9:24:24 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Sept 3, 2009 9:24:24 GMT -5
Wow! Sorry for my short absence, I am dealing with some (good) unforeseen circumstances at work (a promotion ). Mass claims = bad. Lynch all liars = good. Vote early, vote often = good. Do I need to elaborate on these positions? I think it goes without saying that an experienced game designer such as Pleonast would have balanced the game so that a mass claim doesn't help anyone. In this setup, it would hurt town since there are anti-town factions that are lacking information. Lynching all liars is a good thing. Like storyteller says, if you lie we can't trust you. If we can't trust you, you need to die. Certainly, there are situations where it is beneficial for a town player to lie. If you find yourself in such a situation, go ahead and lie, but expect to die if you're discovered. Vote early, vote often. There's no better way to hunt for scum than by tracking voting patterns! And there's no way to do that unless everyone votes! I'm not sure how this works in a game where you can vote for more than one person, I'll have to see how it goes and amend my strategy as the game progresses. Now, I've never played with Meeko but good Lord, he's like Peeker and Roosh mixed together with acid (and Bob Dole, apparently)! D&D, Magic cards, SDMB...what sort of uber-nerd is he? Not that there's anything wrong with that... However, pretty much the entirety of toDay has been spent on Meeko's distractions and Ed's perpetuation of said distractions. I am a little taken aback at Ed's rabid-ness at Meeko, and it pings me. Similarly, I don't like Meeko's habit of posting distracting posts. So, why the hell not. We can vote for more than one person in this game right? Vote: Meeko Vote: Special Ed --FCOD
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 9:30:28 GMT -5
Post by julie on Sept 3, 2009 9:30:28 GMT -5
I was already feeling a bit overwhelmed by this game setup. Throwing in an entire OOG feud is going to make my head spin. I could be helicoptering out of here before noon!
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Death By Irony
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The Former Mandate of Heaven/Current Gastard Night Mod
I'm my own mind-altering substance!
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 9:33:42 GMT -5
Post by Death By Irony on Sept 3, 2009 9:33:42 GMT -5
Hey, look, someone with an even shiner ass* than me! ;D
As somebody who has been lynched for being "distracting", I'm not jumping on the bandwagon just yet.
I'm also cynical that we're witnessing scum-on-scum violence (insert juvenille joke here). Given the balance of the game, and that it's Day 1, it would take a special kind of brass balls to convincingly fake "two Townies going at each other's throats".
Yes, Special Ed's reasoning for going after Meeko is a little thin. But for all the various ways we go after each other, "his posts are really distracting" is not exactly the worst, or the scummiest.
Don't forget, we have investigative roles. The loud, shiny people will get looked at soon enough.
Beware the quiet ones.
*Long story, I'll explain after the game is over. Or go read Psychopaths. (Search for "shiny ass dance" if you need help finding the relevant threads.)
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 9:36:03 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Sept 3, 2009 9:36:03 GMT -5
Congratulations, FCOD
I have to agree that the Meeko/Ed show is pinging me, too. Because it would have been simple enough to say "You know, Meeko, off-topic posts are distracting in a game that requires all our concentration," and leave it at that, or leave the rest of it for post-game.
Vote Meeko Vote Special Ed
Either you're in it together, or Ed knows Meeko will play into his hands. Either way.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 9:44:42 GMT -5
Post by julie on Sept 3, 2009 9:44:42 GMT -5
One question I meant to ask after reading the rules and roles, but I figure those of you who have played the game can answer it just as well:
Zombies just create mass for the Undead, right? They count as bodies as far as wincon but don't do anything else?
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 9:50:09 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Sept 3, 2009 9:50:09 GMT -5
These votes make no sense to me. This is my first game with Meeko (I think), but at least he's here, which is way way WAY more desirable than not participating at all, no matter what his alignment is. Nothing he has said so far seems anti-town to me. Fluffy with a crunchy recruitment conjecture center covered in weird, but otherwise unremarkable. Y'all wouldn't be dragging little duffle bags full or grudges along with you, would you? Same here. I wonder if Ed and Boozahol are reading a different thread than I am. Agreed. Ed's attacks of him are equally distracting to me as Meeko's original post. I don't care about his avatar, but I also don't care that Ed doesn't care. It's actually giving me a headache. Just drop it. You've told him he's distracting and he's anti-Town, give him a chance to stop doing it before you jump on him. (I'm not singling Ed out, Booz did it too, but it goes for them and everyone.) MHaye, is that you? It's not a grudge thing, it's just a combination of being in another game with the guy, and seeing the same sort of behvior here from him. Meeko needs to learn to calm down, and keep his posts focused on the game. For all RoOsh's verbal diarrhea (I still love you, Rooshie-baby!), he kept on track. Meeko doesn't. Until I see focus from the guy, I'm going to think he's a good Day One lynch. Day Two and onwards, I hope to have a little more information. But for right now, it's just a gut instinct kinda thing. I think that's dumb. You don't like the way a player plays so you think he's a good lynch? You say he's a distraction and brings in a lot of other things than the game. I haven't seen this yet and I think it's a pretty poor reason for voting for someone. Again, agreed. I'll wait until Meeko does something Scummy or makes a slip before I vote for him. I may not like his play style much right now either, but I'll hold my vote for something worse.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 9:52:03 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Sept 3, 2009 9:52:03 GMT -5
Aaand, I haven't said my usual piece. Don't hold grudges. Grudges are bad. Grudges put blinkers on your mind's eye, so you see less than you need to. You wind up voting for poor reasons, and losing the game for your side. Just don't do it, ok? Kay. Hey, where's Bill so I can vote him for selling me out in Undying War. >_>
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 10:06:10 GMT -5
Post by special on Sept 3, 2009 10:06:10 GMT -5
I undestand the points.
You are correct. My play is also anti-town at this point. I have a tedancy to go on and on about something. It doesn't usually help Town.
I will make an effort to curtail it.
The votes on me are justified using the same reasoning that I've cast my vote on Meeko, so I won't really argue against them, I will just make an attempt to be more pro-Town from this point forward.
What has been brought forward to discuss so far has included Mass Claiming (I'm against), Lynch All Liars (I'm not 100% behind this, but I understand the concept and would probably support it 99% of the time).
I'd like to add to that discussion, a topic that's been mentioned a bit, but not realy discussed that is perhaps appropriate in this game and may not have been in any precious game. I realize it's extremely metagamey and some people are turned off by that type of play. I feel, however, that since asking for roles has been included in this game, it has become part of this game and it might allow us to discuss it.
What are the opinions on people being allowed to ask for roles/alignments? How do you think it might play into finding Scum? Would we think it more likely that someone who signed up early got their preference and someone who signed up late might not have or do you think it likely Pleo waited until he had all preferences?
Should we even be having this conversation? And if we should, how do you think it should play out? Should we just post what we think other players might have picked?
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Meeko
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 10:15:06 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 3, 2009 10:15:06 GMT -5
I will only add two more things to this [Avatar and Ed]. I hope that you guys hear me well, because I am getting it VERY LOUD, and VERY CLEAR that you guys do not care if I play this game or not.
Fighting against Boozy and his misconceived vote is one thing, having to put out multiple fires elsewhere is something else.
I am sorry talking about my Avatar leads to 3 votes. I honestly thought that someone would ask about it. I honestly thought, that If I addressed it in a post where I actually do cover game topics, and therefore play the game, that we could read it, and let it pass.
I am actually going to go further.
I am sorry for my entire part in all of this. I doubt that Ed would say as much, but then, I will fall back to the schoolyard : "He started it"
I wanted this time to be different.
I thought this time, I could rise above it. I thought this time, I would not draw votes from a very emotional first day. I have seen this pattern, I have seen it nearly 3 times in the past. I thought this time would be different. I thought this time, I could show you guys, as I did in Wild West, what I am capable of doing.
Apparently, I am nothing more than insane for expecting a different result, after the same things.
But, Yes, I am getting stirred up here. Yes, it is keeping me from playing my best [If different] game.
If I could do anything to start this over, I would.
But, oh my god, did I draw heat on that. From Ed.
Unlike Ed, I know it is a sin to vote OMGUS, even when it happens to be for actual game-play reasons. But, I think I finally found his motive.
I have asked Pleon if I could post his pm in this game, all games are different, and I am wondering now if Conspiracy for my fourth game was not a bit too much.
Here is part of a PM I got back from Pleon :
No, the Town cannot talk at Night (see second paragraph of rules). Feel free to ask any questions have about the rules via PM. I don't want players to make mistakes because of a rules misunderstanding.
Ed specifically said for me to talk at Night.
Where would I do that? Does Ed have an abillity where he could do that ?
I refer you all to my current vote on Ed.
I believe he slipped here.
What's more, he started the Meeko Bandwagon incredibly early. Incredibly early. Those of you with votes on me are no better. You know that I am an easy Bandwagon. You know that I get stirred up like this.
It is time to end it.
Again, I am Sorry, and I know that I can not control your votes.
All I know, is that I see Ed as slipping here, and for first day votes, that is pretty good.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 10:23:31 GMT -5
Post by special on Sept 3, 2009 10:23:31 GMT -5
OK, I'll adress the Night talking since it's the basis of Meeko's vote for me.
I've specifically asked Pleo if there will be a Night thread for the Town to fluff in.
If there isn't, I can assure you that I'm not silly enough to make aslip like that, I was just assuming that, like every other game I've played in aside from the game on mafiascum, there has been a Night thread for all the players to at least post fluff in.
When I suggested that Meeko discuss his avatar there, I wasn't suggesting that he discuss it with whatever alignment partners he may or may not have communcation with, I was suggesting that he save the out of game topics for a Fluff only Night thread.
I will let you know what Pleo says in regards to if there is a fluff-only Night thread for Town.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 10:27:05 GMT -5
Post by julie on Sept 3, 2009 10:27:05 GMT -5
Meeko, I think I understand why you tend to get killed early, if you do. You're dramatizing and personalizing and kinda sucking all the air out of the room.
Calm down.
Talk about the game during Day Threads. Talk about whatever you want during Night fluff threads.
It's a game. We want to have fun. We don't want to smash at it until it breaks and we don't want anyone to feel persecuted or harmed (unless you're scum, then DIEDIEDIE).
Okay?
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Meeko
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 10:30:14 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 3, 2009 10:30:14 GMT -5
Starting a new direction.
I can not comment on Batman, or on C2.
I can comment on Crimson Glyph, and LOST.
IIRC, mass claims came up in those games as well.
I even added to speculation, on if the Scarlet Letter characters would stick to Cannon, esecially in relation to allignment and power.
We still were duped by a scum claiming to be a vanilla town, with a very, very well written claim for a named character in the book.
LOST had me confirmed due in part to an oversight by the mod. I claimed to be, and indeed was Sawyer. The timing of my claim, in relation to other events confirmed me.
I was the only one to be able to be confirmed in this way in LOST. Clean Vanilla aliases were then given to scum, and the entire idea was nerfed.
In games with an established Cannon, I can see the argument for a mass claim. We have permanent, established, outside of the game, references for how I player will be alligned.
But, as my examples show, it's not Iron Clad, even then. Mass claims should have won the game for town in Crimson Glyph and in LOST. IIRC, it didn't. [Other, worse Assumptions did us in even more.]
Mass Claims do not appear to be the silver bullet to me, that some say that it is.
This game has no Cannon, that I am aware of. This game could have recruitment, that I am aware of. Both of these are a hindrance to claims.
I do not see how claiming this soon helps anything. Again, once the math changes, and we can confirm and rule out other variables [Recruitment, what flavor other powers are] then we could BEGIN to address claiming then.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 10:43:41 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Sept 3, 2009 10:43:41 GMT -5
What are the opinions on people being allowed to ask for roles/alignments? How do you think it might play into finding Scum? Would we think it more likely that someone who signed up early got their preference and someone who signed up late might not have or do you think it likely Pleo waited until he had all preferences? I wonder about the same thing, but I think there are so many confounding factors that I can't think of a way to leverage the question. First of all, multiple players claimed that they did not express a preference to Pleonast at all - that they just let the cards fall where they may. Those players might have been telling the truth. On the other hand, had I intended to request a juicy Scum role, I might have claimed not to have requested anything at all. Second, we don't know whether players who DID ask generally received their preferences or not. We can all say whether we asked and whether we got what we wanted, but here's the thing: in a standard game, where the majority of the players are Town aligned, you can do a quick once-around the room with a question like this and assume that most of the answers you receive will be truthful. In this game, there are more players in the game than not who are Scum, and thus motivated to be untruthful, so the value of even a straw poll is in serious question. Though for the record, I will say that I did request something specific, and received exactly that.--------------------- Totally unrelated: I just realized something, uniquely characteristic of these Conspiracy games, and I need to share. In every other Mafia game, the Town's goal is to find Scum, out them, and lynch them. But in Conspiracy, a weird thing happens. The Town goal here is actually to hide from all the other factions who is Town, in order to generate a suitable number of cross-kills to have a chance at winning. It is the Town that wants to conceal, as much as possible, the identities of its members. Weird.
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