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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 20:17:42 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Sept 3, 2009 20:17:42 GMT -5
I was going to vote Boozahol after seeing/catching the slip when he made it but then figured, for once, I'd actually finish the topic before composing an answer. .. ...Just to see everyone else already voting for him. Vote: Boozahol And while I think Ed was wrong for voting for Meeko for the reasons he gave, I equally think the rush of votes that were placed on Ed for it is hasty as well. Seems to me there was a huge influx of votes just because there was an easy, possible reason for it.
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Meeko
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 20:18:39 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 3, 2009 20:18:39 GMT -5
Oh, I see, you mean that 1970s or so Cop/Detective show.
Being 26, I miss jokes like this. [Hopefully you got mine.]
Can I vote you for going OOG on me nonetheless?
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 20:27:19 GMT -5
Post by bufftabby on Sept 3, 2009 20:27:19 GMT -5
And while I think Ed was wrong for voting for Meeko for the reasons he gave, I equally think the rush of votes that were placed on Ed for it is hasty as well. Seems to me there was a huge influx of votes just because there was an easy, possible reason for it. I think you might be right. But I also think I still have an eye on the two of them, and I'm not ready to remove my votes on either.
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 23:46:03 GMT -5
Post by Mister Blockey on Sept 3, 2009 23:46:03 GMT -5
Hmmm can we get a votecount. I'm tempted to vote boozy as I see the slip that we're all seeing. However I'm seeing this massive rush to vote him, and that worries me too.
Alright I finally found the voting rules again and noticed that there's no voting threshold to end the day early so I might as well
Vote Boozahol
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Day One
Sept 3, 2009 23:49:55 GMT -5
Post by bufftabby on Sept 3, 2009 23:49:55 GMT -5
Look in the votecount thread, blockey. It's rather up-to-date, actually.
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 0:08:07 GMT -5
Post by Mister Blockey on Sept 4, 2009 0:08:07 GMT -5
Look in the votecount thread, blockey. It's rather up-to-date, actually. Actually I was referring to the rules on voting rather than the vote count itself. And I did find what I wanted. That is a very up to date votecount though, thanks for pointing it out for me.
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Meeko
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 0:16:15 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 4, 2009 0:16:15 GMT -5
I am going to attempt this here.
Are there games where once X has Y votes, dusk comes early? [Why am I reminded of the Wizards game Guillotine here?]
If that rule is in the greater Mafia consciousness, it would suck for me. Suck BAD.
But, perhaps when I find myself in a game with that rule, my style will have improved.
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 0:30:25 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Sept 4, 2009 0:30:25 GMT -5
Well, in consultation with my other Cabalists.... I'm going to come out and admit my own stupidity.
Just to let those townies out there, the Cabal does have a potent anti-Wolf and anti-Vampire hidden power. The Cabal really doesn't have any sort of head-on conflicts with the Town, we both want to see the other two factions dead: we just want there to be a couple of dead Witches along the way. We also don't have any way of hurting the Town. And, unfortunately for both the Cabal and the Town, I hold it. If you off me, you'll put the Cabal in the situation of watching and waiting, rather than actively helping you with your goal. If you let me stay alive, I will use my power relatively quickly, and help both our factions. If I die toDay, we both lose out.
Your guys choice.
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Gir!
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 1:05:35 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Sept 4, 2009 1:05:35 GMT -5
Well, I should be in bed, but I couldn't sleep, and so I got up and found Boozy's claim.
I have the urge to speculate about what the claimed hidden power is, but I'll resist that.
The questions that come up now are: 1) Do we believe that Boozy has the claimed power? and 2) Do we believe that he'll use it to our benefit?
I'm inclined to believe the claim to be Cabal for now, but I really have nothing to back that up, except that this feels like something Boozy would do.
I do wonder if all the Cabal have a hidden power, rather than just one of them or it being "shared" among them, since they had plenty of time to reveal their PMs to each other, and if only Boozy had one, wouldn't he have figured out that not everyone had one, instead of assuming? It could be that the anti-Wolf/anti-Vampire power belongs to another Cabalist, and that's the only pro-Town-ish power amongst them, so he claimed it to avoid the lynch.
Does that make sense? I'm going to bed now, I hope that makes sense to me in the morning.
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 1:22:57 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 4, 2009 1:22:57 GMT -5
Unless this power comes with some sort of guarantee of being accurate, useful, or producing useful information, I fail to see how he can assure us that he'll live up to his pledge of "relatively quickly" using it to help both Town and Cabal. I also think the nature of his slip betrays a likelyhood that he is not the sole owner of his faction's power.
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 1:43:20 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Sept 4, 2009 1:43:20 GMT -5
I am going to attempt this here. Are there games where once X has Y votes, dusk comes early? [Why am I reminded of the Wizards game Guillotine here?] If that rule is in the greater Mafia consciousness, it would suck for me. Suck BAD. But, perhaps when I find myself in a game with that rule, my style will have improved. The rule is actually, usually, that once a vote count reaches a specific threshold a countdown timer starts. When that timer runs out Day ends and the person with the most votes is executed. There is also a rule often used that when a certain number of votes is reached that player is lynched. It's called "The hammer". So you may here people in these games refer to dropping the hammer.
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 1:56:40 GMT -5
Post by PrecambrianMollusc on Sept 4, 2009 1:56:40 GMT -5
Regarding boozy His win condition is exclusive to towns wincon, we win or he (Cabal as he claimed) does, not both and there are no second places. So yes he does rather have a head on conflict with us. So his claim to stay alive just lets him and his team potentially steal a win later.
My initial thought when he announced (or slipped) that he had a power, was that he was trying to paint a big target on his back for a night kill and hoping it wasn't picked up on as a reason to lynch him. It seamed way to much of a school boy error for an experienced player, hence I thought he may have been a town role trying to pull in a night hit on themselves. That obviously does not jive with the cabal claim. The other thing about the claim that I can't quite follow is that he claims cabal has no way of getting to the witches, only the wolves/undead. I find this unlikely for metagame reasons, the witches need to die for Cabal to win. To leave the cabal with no way of dealing with witches other than persuading a town to lynch them seams not likely, although I admit that is colored by my experience of playing Cabal in C2, this game could be balanced very differently.
So because he claims cabal, and cabals wincon is exclusive to towns wincon
VOTE BOOZAHOL SQUID PI
Would I be paranoid if I thought maybe its a big set up and he is a bomb? Again it just seams to basic an error.
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 3:13:01 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Sept 4, 2009 3:13:01 GMT -5
Well, in consultation with my other Cabalists.... I'm going to come out and admit my own stupidity. Just to let those townies out there, the Cabal does have a potent anti-Wolf and anti-Vampire hidden power. The Cabal really doesn't have any sort of head-on conflicts with the Town, we both want to see the other two factions dead: we just want there to be a couple of dead Witches along the way. We also don't have any way of hurting the Town. And, unfortunately for both the Cabal and the Town, I hold it. If you off me, you'll put the Cabal in the situation of watching and waiting, rather than actively helping you with your goal. If you let me stay alive, I will use my power relatively quickly, and help both our factions. If I die toDay, we both lose out. Your guys choice. So lets consider this in light of the win conditions: The Town does not know the identities or roles of the other Townies. This lack of information is balanced by numerical superiority and/or powerful roles. The Daily lynch is the Town's primary instrument of justice. The Town wins at any time when: 1) At least one Townie is alive. 2) All Wolves are dead. 3) All Undead are dead. 4) Either a) Two or more Witches are alive, or b) all Cabalists are dead.
The Cabal know the identities and roles of the other Cabalists. Though few in number, they may speak secretly (off site) at any time, Day or Night. They may block the powers of one player each Night. The Cabal win when: 1) At least one Cabalist is alive. 2) All Wolves are dead. 3) All Undead are dead. 4) There are one or no Witches remaining.The Vampire is essentially a town-vig, so your hidden power isn't helpful there. Cabal and Town cannot win together -- Cabal needs two dead town witches, Town needs two witches alive, or dead Cabal. Mutually exclusive - you being dead furthers the town win condition Vote: boozy
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 3:18:59 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Sept 4, 2009 3:18:59 GMT -5
The Vampire is essentially a town-vig, so your hidden power isn't helpful there. Urgh, need more caffeine this morning - Vampires are undead not town. Either way, Cabal cannot win with Town.
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 3:28:43 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Sept 4, 2009 3:28:43 GMT -5
No Fair - a Boozahol Squid P.I. lynch wagon in Conspiracy and I missed it. I am almost tempted to say let the Wolves and Undead deal with him if his secret power is so anti-them. Actually Squid, if you want people to unvote you, you might want to explain exactly what your extra power is. because right now, I'm not that tempted. vote Boozahol Squid P.I.Yes, I am enjoying this, why do you ask?
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 5:42:59 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 4, 2009 5:42:59 GMT -5
well that is interesting.
first, all factions' wincons are mutually exclusive so squiddy's statement about having no head on conflict with town is obvious bullshit. additionally, his statement about cabal having no way of hurting town with their blocking power is also a whole bunch of nonsense.
now having said that, if we were to believe the rest of his claim is there any way to leverage this and his claimed power to get a better net benefit than just a dead cabal member?
seriously, is there some way to "negotiate" an even greater town good. i honestly don't know and would like to hear some thoughts on this.
i know, for me, that at a minimum to even consider not stringing the squid would entail knowledge of what this power is and a much more concrete descriptor than "relatively".
if i recall the prior conspiracies the main town threats did not come from the cabal. so could there be a way to have a germany/russia wwii alliance for a time reducing other threats and then slugging it out all the while stacking the deck in the town's favor?
so while "negotiating" with folks that are actively opposed to you is generally a bad idea i also know that you keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 8:29:07 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Sept 4, 2009 8:29:07 GMT -5
Wow, a Cabal claim on Day 1. If this is any preview of how this game is going to go, it's going to be craaaazy (but easy, thankfully).
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 10:08:23 GMT -5
Post by bufftabby on Sept 4, 2009 10:08:23 GMT -5
As others have said, a Cabal claim doesn't ease my enthusiasm for killing boozy. What Kat said in 1.158 makes a lot of sense as well.
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 10:19:24 GMT -5
Post by julie on Sept 4, 2009 10:19:24 GMT -5
What sorts of extra powers are the Cabal likely to have?
I can see potential for Town working with Cabal, but it seems as if Cabal isn't really bringing much to the table at this point--just one player who claims to have an extra power but who now has an enormous target on his back. His claim is that he is the sole Cabalist with the power, which means that if he's telling the truth about that his benefit to Town (if any) would be as short-lived as he is.
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 11:02:46 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Sept 4, 2009 11:02:46 GMT -5
Well then, it seems like an easy choice for today.
Unvote: * Vote: Scummy Cabalist Boozy
We have no way of trusting him that his power is in fact anti-Undead/anti-Wolves. It could be anti-Town too, for all we know.
--FCOD
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Natlaw
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 12:30:42 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Sept 4, 2009 12:30:42 GMT -5
I can see potential for Town working with Cabal, but it seems as if Cabal isn't really bringing much to the table at this point--just one player who claims to have an extra power but who now has an enormous target on his back. His claim is that he is the sole Cabalist with the power, which means that if he's telling the truth about that his benefit to Town (if any) would be as short-lived as he is. Boozahol having a big target on his back isn't really a problem - in fact it could give the remorseful vigilante a save target (even if he isn't Cabal, he's unlikely to be lying town). But since the vigilante isn't compulsory either and the unknown effect of Boozahol's supposed power, I don't see a reason to give him time to use it. Vote: Boozy Squid Looking at the vote counts he passed the threshold for a lynch a while ago.
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 12:49:43 GMT -5
Post by julie on Sept 4, 2009 12:49:43 GMT -5
Boozahol having a big target on his back isn't really a problem - in fact it could give the remorseful vigilante a save target (even if he isn't Cabal, he's unlikely to be lying town). I don't mean a problem in the sense of it hurting Town, but it makes cooperating with Cabal all risk and no (or little chance of) reward.
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Meeko
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 13:03:59 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 4, 2009 13:03:59 GMT -5
Yes, I am enjoying this, why do you ask? Because it is no fun picking on the noob. But then, when I quoted you, it revealed the secret to your squint-o-vision tactics. Perhaps my eyes can rest now. FCOD : Does Unvote * revert back to DOS, where * fills in for a wild card? e.g. you unvoted me? Man, between Knowing Dos, and understanding how tags work, you almost need to know how to run a computer to be here. What?
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Natlaw
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 13:04:09 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Sept 4, 2009 13:04:09 GMT -5
Oooohhhh interesting! I'd call that a slip. Enough for a vote, seeing as how our votes are worth less than rainbows and unicorn farts And some more serious comments about how the multi-vote makes votes cheap by mister blockey, bufftabby and Cookies: Thinking of the extra votes as heavily weighted FOS's seems a reasonable approach. Ideally, it should be avoided unless you have justification to provide. Ideally, it shouldn't be done at the last minute. Ideally, people won't pollute the voting record by voting and unvoting everywhere all over the place. I think the first "Ideally" needs extra emphasis: I don't think multi-voting makes voting more free or careless. Like Borda voting, any vote you cast weakens your primary vote and makes it easier for scum to switch the lynch to other player you voted for. Especially if you would vote for the lynch leader and the runner up(s) then the net difference between them remains unchanged. So an extra one-off vote counts as a (recorded) FoS, but multiple votes for people closely tied for the lynch is anti-town in my opinion. There is no accountability which one you really thought more scummy and you let the other voters (with uncertain alignment) decide who gets lynched.
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 13:31:17 GMT -5
Post by Mister Blockey on Sept 4, 2009 13:31:17 GMT -5
I never intended to say that votes should be flying around willy nilly.
Rather I'm far more inclined to put an actual vote out for a gut feeling or a tactical consideration, instead of waiting til the last minute.
This is for two reasons: 1) I can still vote for someone else and have my secondary vote there and on the record 2) There's no mechanic to end the day early, so if my votes are doing something unintended I can and will change that.
There's no reason we can't hold people accountable for their votes even when voting more freely. In fact allowing a second or third vote to cause some sort of problem is definitely something we should watch for.
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 13:40:12 GMT -5
Post by julie on Sept 4, 2009 13:40:12 GMT -5
Vote: Boozahol Squid P.I.I'm willing to rescind this vote if I can be convinced (and for the record, I'm pretty gullible!) that two in the bush are better than this bird in the hand.
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Meeko
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 13:45:38 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 4, 2009 13:45:38 GMT -5
I can understand, that voting for everyone essentially means voting for no one at all.
And, I can follow it up by saying that voting for everyone but one person means pretty much the same.
From that, I understand your point, and I get what you mean about primary votes losing power.
But, what if you are equally sure about the scummyness of two given people? Should you not vote the second person ?
Having a recorded FOS is good, I think, especially if the game is in a state where you can see your death coming. In my opinion, a FOS is almost as good as being able to vote the day after you die. (but of course not).
So yeah, it would seem that our votes are kinda less with this set up, but I think they still can achieve what the need to achieve.
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 14:32:28 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Sept 4, 2009 14:32:28 GMT -5
Hey, who am I to hold up a good lynchin'?
vote: Me
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 15:03:13 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Sept 4, 2009 15:03:13 GMT -5
Hey guys and gals.
Sorry about my lack of participation for thisDay so far. I've worked the past eight days in a row, and I've still got five more to go. Good news for me, as I'm broke, but it severely lowers my chance to get on here to update myself in the game and post. Once I get off work I pretty much go straight to bed as I've been so drained.
I am taking my time now to read through here though. I'll be commenting as I go, so if I post something that's been answered I haven't gotten to that yet on the read through. I'll try and stay on top of this more in the coming Days. I hope...
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Day One
Sept 4, 2009 15:09:27 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Sept 4, 2009 15:09:27 GMT -5
That sounds ridiculously cumbersome, Ed. I think voting early and often is more of a viable strategy. See here: Yes, it does seem cumbersome. After some thought, I agree that it's not the way to go. What I'm afraid will happen though, is that as people vote early, the votes on myself and Meeko will continue to grow, and we'll become the only choices that many people consider. That could limit how much effort some people put into actual Scum hunting. I know many people will still continue to look and be pro-active, but many times when a few people jump ahead early, some players become more reactive. I'm still hoping for a bit more discussion on the metagamey aspect of pondering who might have requested what. True, but 13 votes is also a lot for early game. If you get four quickly, and people pile on, you still won't get to 13 that fast. Also, it's good to see who piles on, and when, and for what reasons. Especially of some of the originally reasoning is weak. There's bound to be some Scum joining in the fun to see if they can push an early lynch.
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