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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 11:33:20 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on Sept 11, 2009 11:33:20 GMT -5
Don't remorseful vigs have to kill themselves? How was one that had killed a Townie allowed to live and kill and be redirected for "several" more Nights? I think any missed kills are unlikely with so many dead. I'm not ruling it out completely, just moving it down on the short list of possibilities. But when looking through the roles to remind myself of the possible (killing role + victim !=death) possibilities I was reminded about the Magician. If the Magician were targeted last night, it seems a reasonable explanation for a pile of Night kill bodies that don't make a lot of sense together. How would the Magician being targeted cause confusion for anyone, except the player(s) who targeted the Magician. It wouldn't result in extra death, it would just redirect a kill. No more confusing than what a pile of dead bodies would normally bring, unless you're kill was redirected and you didn't know why.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 11:34:16 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 11, 2009 11:34:16 GMT -5
You're onto me. I do know something that apparently the rest of you don't. I know that I happen find it odd that both Meeko and Ed would both be targeted for kills last Night. Perhaps it was not sufficiently implicit in my statement. Nice smear though.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 11:58:12 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 11, 2009 11:58:12 GMT -5
I didn't say that the Magician being targeted would cause confusion. I say that the Magician being targeted allows for the result we've all seen in the body count and potentially rules out the idea that both Ed and Meeko were consciously targeted by their killers, which is the part I think is odd and unlikely, and I'm not alone in saying so.
I can swallow the idea of a Magician picking either one of the noisy duo as a proxy. I can swallow the idea of a Town-aligned killer choosing either one of them as a kill target. I can't really swallow two killing roles independently deciding to take each of them out, and succeeding independently, without coordination. I can't really swallow a scum killer of any variety going after either of them. I don't see a scum motivation to do so.
This is all conjecture and we don't know the roles or alignments of any of our dead yet, but what we do know is that Ed and Meeko were both noisy, getting a lot of heat for it and suspected by a few to be staging their bickering in collusion. I know that they were getting on my nerves. But none of those things add up, imho, to both Ed and Meeko being dead without some sort of twist. Like a Magician.
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Merestil Haye
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 12:53:27 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 11, 2009 12:53:27 GMT -5
Don't remorseful vigs have to kill themselves? How was one that had killed a Townie allowed to live and kill and be redirected for "several" more Nights? She missed. Sister Coyote's action the Night after killing a Townie (and every Night thereafter until dead) was to target herself with her own power. The Doppelgangers had a player with the ability to change a player's target. The redirector just had to change Sister C's target of a Night. We lynched Sister Coyote rather than an identified Scum the next Day. In this game, the Vig only makes one suicide attempt. The Witches could protect the Vig (we declined in C2) or a living Witchdoctor could enchant the Vig on the suicide Night. I'm not sure whether the Vig loses their power or not in such cases.
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Death By Irony
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 13:13:48 GMT -5
Post by Death By Irony on Sept 11, 2009 13:13:48 GMT -5
IIRC, I was the Necromancer last round (and I think I was killed by the Vampire, no less! Most uncool, man, most uncool!), with the Secret Necromancer Power of raising a corpse as a Zombie regardless of what other blessing powers were on him (or maybe I could only overcome the Vicar's ability; it's been a while).
"Scum would never do that" is a patently false idea that Townies need to disabuse themselves of very quickly. Sure, there might be things that they are less likely to do, but "never"? Scum have been known to do very, very crazy things to throw themselves off the trail of suspicion or try to delay their lynching (a certain supposed Bomb from the first Conspiracy comes to mind ;D).
Natlaw's puzzlement about why Meeko and SpecialEd's deaths smacks of both 1) trying to hard to sound Townie, and 2) a little bit of Perfect Information Syndrome, as he seems certain that both of those were scumkills (whereas it seems just as likely that one was a vilgilante and/or a magician redirect).
Nanook, is there any reason you think Story could be a Wolves kill? That's oddly specific speculation you've got going on there.
This definitely warrants a thorough readthrough of both their posts. Until then, have a nice, pointy Finger of Suspcion poking at the both of you.
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Death By Irony
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 13:15:12 GMT -5
Post by Death By Irony on Sept 11, 2009 13:15:12 GMT -5
Suspicion, even.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 13:20:04 GMT -5
Post by Nanook on Sept 11, 2009 13:20:04 GMT -5
I thought I outlined pretty clearly what my thought process was. 3 kills. One is 95% likely to be a Wolf kill, with the other two being some combination of Vig, Vamp and/or one shot. Ed and Meeko had large amounts of heat on them, making them unlikely to be the Wolf target, which is the closest thing to a true scum team this game has(Undead are more of a loose conferate of PFKs, whereas the Cabal aren't a tradtional scum team since they don't have a NK as a base power). Story is generally acknowledged by one and all, and I agree, to be a very strong player. So two kills of people that don't make sense for a traditional scum team and one kill of a strong player. It isn't that hard to make the connection that Story=most likely Wolf kill. Why are you having such a hard time with the logic?
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 13:24:32 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Sept 11, 2009 13:24:32 GMT -5
I'm not going to FOS anyone, I'm just going to
Vote Peeker
Because I think that peek's statement on page 1 about "crosskills benefiting town" smacks of PIS. We don't know that there was a crosskill last night, and we don't know enough about our dead yet to know if their deaths benefited Town.
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Parzival
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 14:07:02 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on Sept 11, 2009 14:07:02 GMT -5
It is a little interesting in that in a no-flip game talking about targets and other possibilities is somewhat fruitful. Although mostly in comparing reactions.
Another possibility in terms of the 'unusual' targets would be Vampire blowback.
To me, the choices don't seem especially weird. It still doesn't get around the numbers (three kills). But I know that Vigs are unpredictable; sometimes they have reasons we don't know, though not always good ones. So an optional Vig choosing to kill Night 1 may not be the best play, but it is, in the end, not inexplicable.
If we're talking in terms of random possibilities, the Vampire being attacked is just as likely as the Magician (as Cookies suggested). Although I think that it's more likely that this was just a series of choices that we don't all have the information on.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 14:25:46 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Sept 11, 2009 14:25:46 GMT -5
Dang, this game is complicated. I was thinking about the Remorseful Vig maybe being one of the victims, but had forgotten that there is a time delay in their death. Side question: Is there any reason for a Remorseful Vig NOT to claim if it's ever revealed that they've shot a Townie? How could they? They'd be dead. You're onto me. I do know something that apparently the rest of you don't. I know that I happen find it odd that both Meeko and Ed would both be targeted for kills last Night. Perhaps it was not sufficiently implicit in my statement. Nice smear though. I don't really find this particularly odd. Why do you find it so? I seriously don't get these people detailing every possible combination of killing in the book. When you're talking about how "Oh maybe it was a magician who possibly missed a remorseful vig who didn't happen to kill someone who might possibly have a percent chance of missing them" (Minor exaggeration), I think you're reaching a bit. The possibilities are endless. Hell, one of them could have BEEN a remorseful vig and killed off a town so they killed themselves. I mean if you're going to lay down all combinations out..what's wrong with "Ed (or Meeko) found the other suspicious and one of them was a RV. They targeted the other, who was Town, and, come morning, they're both dead. And Story was killed by a scum killing role" Feel free to switch those three around in multiple ways, as well. My point is...I think it's still too early to get as in depth as some of you seem to be getting regarding the possible reasons people died and who did it. Some wondering is always good but we know very little right now. In the coming days when roles and sides are revealed, then would be a good time to go a bit farther, I think.
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Death By Irony
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 14:37:12 GMT -5
Post by Death By Irony on Sept 11, 2009 14:37:12 GMT -5
I don't like making assumptions about Night Kills--in fact, I've had a pretty good history of catching scum who seem to show too much interest in talking about Night Kills (in fact, the question of "why did X get killed last Night" is an automatic policy Finger of Suspicion in my book)
BTW, I've asked Pleo about the Vig, and he's confirmed that if the Vig (if one exists) offs himself, but gets resurrected by a Witchdoctor (if one exists) the same Night, the Vig doesn't lose his powers.
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Death By Irony
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 14:39:28 GMT -5
Post by Death By Irony on Sept 11, 2009 14:39:28 GMT -5
The only problem with a Remorseful Vigilante theory is that they don't instantly find out the alignment of their victim (I think) - they have to wait for the reveal just like the rest of us. So any possible Vigilante suicide is going to be delayed.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 15:09:50 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 11, 2009 15:09:50 GMT -5
Dang, this game is complicated. I was thinking about the Remorseful Vig maybe being one of the victims, but had forgotten that there is a time delay in their death. Side question: Is there any reason for a Remorseful Vig NOT to claim if it's ever revealed that they've shot a Townie? How could they? They'd be dead. You're onto me. I do know something that apparently the rest of you don't. I know that I happen find it odd that both Meeko and Ed would both be targeted for kills last Night. Perhaps it was not sufficiently implicit in my statement. Nice smear though. I don't really find this particularly odd. Why do you find it so? I seriously don't get these people detailing every possible combination of killing in the book. When you're talking about how "Oh maybe it was a magician who possibly missed a remorseful vig who didn't happen to kill someone who might possibly have a percent chance of missing them" (Minor exaggeration), I think you're reaching a bit. The possibilities are endless. Hell, one of them could have BEEN a remorseful vig and killed off a town so they killed themselves. I mean if you're going to lay down all combinations out..what's wrong with "Ed (or Meeko) found the other suspicious and one of them was a RV. They targeted the other, who was Town, and, come morning, they're both dead. And Story was killed by a scum killing role" Feel free to switch those three around in multiple ways, as well. My point is...I think it's still too early to get as in depth as some of you seem to be getting regarding the possible reasons people died and who did it. Some wondering is always good but we know very little right now. In the coming days when roles and sides are revealed, then would be a good time to go a bit farther, I think. I elaborated on why I think it was odd in Post #32. Does that answer your question? I happen to agree with you about it being not the best use of our time to spend too much time trying to hypothesize based on circumstances and roles in other games, which was exactly why I decided to instead go pouring through the public information that applies to this game, which is where I was reminded of the Magician. The only reason that I brought it up was because I found it odd that Ed and Meeko were both killed as I have previously stated, it hadn't already been mentioned as a possibility, and it was arrived at using the public information that we were provided for this particular set up as opposed to conjecture about secret roles or using examples from other games.
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Merestil Haye
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 15:16:18 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 11, 2009 15:16:18 GMT -5
How could they? They'd be dead. I think you're getting this game confused with Alien Taste. In AT, Germaine discovers whether his victim is human or not when he kills. In this game, they don't find out the alignment of the victim until two Dawns later, and have to live with their remorse through a whole Day before killing themselves the following Night. Plenty of time there to claim and apologise. Sister C, in this game the odds are that Town doesn't start off outnumbering all the anti-Town factions put together. I've been privately assuming a starting lineup of 12 Town, six Werewolves, three Undead and four Cabal, which makes town just under 50% of the starting players. Crosskills are essential for a Town win. They're also quite likely, with that sort of setup. (If all three of the dead are Town, I will be most surprised.) I expect to refine those estimates as alignments are revealed.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 15:22:59 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Sept 11, 2009 15:22:59 GMT -5
How could they? They'd be dead. I don't really find this particularly odd. Why do you find it so? I seriously don't get these people detailing every possible combination of killing in the book. When you're talking about how "Oh maybe it was a magician who possibly missed a remorseful vig who didn't happen to kill someone who might possibly have a percent chance of missing them" (Minor exaggeration), I think you're reaching a bit. The possibilities are endless. Hell, one of them could have BEEN a remorseful vig and killed off a town so they killed themselves. I mean if you're going to lay down all combinations out..what's wrong with "Ed (or Meeko) found the other suspicious and one of them was a RV. They targeted the other, who was Town, and, come morning, they're both dead. And Story was killed by a scum killing role" Feel free to switch those three around in multiple ways, as well. My point is...I think it's still too early to get as in depth as some of you seem to be getting regarding the possible reasons people died and who did it. Some wondering is always good but we know very little right now. In the coming days when roles and sides are revealed, then would be a good time to go a bit farther, I think. I elaborated on why I think it was odd in Post #32. Does that answer your question? I happen to agree with you about it being not the best use of our time to spend too much time trying to hypothesize based on circumstances and roles in other games, which was exactly why I decided to instead go pouring through the public information that applies to this game, which is where I was reminded of the Magician. The only reason that I brought it up was because I found it odd that Ed and Meeko were both killed as I have previously stated, it hadn't already been mentioned as a possibility, and it was arrived at using the public information that we were provided for this particular set up as opposed to conjecture about secret roles or using examples from other games. Not really, since the last part of my post was referring mostly to that post. But I understand what you mean. I just don't agree with it. How could they? They'd be dead. I think you're getting this game confused with Alien Taste. In AT, Germaine discovers whether his victim is human or not when he kills. In this game, they don't find out the alignment of the victim until two Dawns later, and have to live with their remorse through a whole Day before killing themselves the following Night. Plenty of time there to claim and apologise. Sister C, in this game the odds are that Town doesn't start off outnumbering all the anti-Town factions put together. I've been privately assuming a starting lineup of 12 Town, six Werewolves, three Undead and four Cabal, which makes town just under 50% of the starting players. Crosskills are essential for a Town win. They're also quite likely, with that sort of setup. (If all three of the dead are Town, I will be most surprised.) I expect to refine those estimates as alignments are revealed. Not at all. I must have just misunderstood the question. Julie seemed to be asking if a RV would claim and tell us if he/she hit an innocent after they did so...at least that's how I read it. And I was point out the very obvious fact that the RV couldn't because they would have killed themselves the same Night, I assume? At least that is how MOST RVs are...they kill themselves the same Night as when they kill an innocent (this is how I was in the game I was an RV in, at least).
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 15:28:17 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 11, 2009 15:28:17 GMT -5
I'm not going to FOS anyone, I'm just going to Vote PeekerBecause I think that peek's statement on page 1 about "crosskills benefiting town" smacks of PIS. We don't know that there was a crosskill last night, and we don't know enough about our dead yet to know if their deaths benefited Town. so you don't think that crosskills benefit town? color me confused as all hell. even without knowing who is who on the dead pile i believe that having non town aligned groups or individuals kill other non town aligned groups or individuals to be a very good thing. so cross kills benefit town. whether we have had any or not is unknown, at least to me.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 15:48:14 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 11, 2009 15:48:14 GMT -5
and now that i think about sc her observation really is getting odder.
first, i do believe that cross kills can have a general overall beneficial town impact. and since others agree i don't think that it is PIS to come to that generic conclusion. so i guess the PIS is regarding knowlege of the dead folks. ok, this is even an odder jump.
and this is not a claim in any way shape or form just an observation.
absent an unknown power,what is the alignment of the only soul that would have PIS regarding the deaths so far? that be right, town.
so either sc is flinging hoping to get a sticker or she is voting for someone that based on her vote that she knows to be town aligned. one is bad, both is worse.
vote sister coyote
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 16:04:11 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 11, 2009 16:04:11 GMT -5
I don't like making assumptions about Night Kills--in fact, I've had a pretty good history of catching scum who seem to show too much interest in talking about Night Kills (in fact, the question of "why did X get killed last Night" is an automatic policy Finger of Suspicion in my book) BTW, I've asked Pleo about the Vig, and he's confirmed that if the Vig (if one exists) offs himself, but gets resurrected by a Witchdoctor (if one exists) the same Night, the Vig doesn't lose his powers. This post is a quite a smear on anyone choosing to WAG about last Night's kills, but the WIFOM cuts both ways. Maybe one of the guesses proffered has gotten too close to home for you, and you'd rather try and keep the conversation steered in other directions? I don't think anyone is making assumptions about the kills. I know I'm not. I'm throwing possibilities out and seeing what sticks and what doesn't. With each new piece of data that comes out, I'll probably go back and throw some things that didn't stick before and see if they have started to stick. We don't have the luxury of immediate flips in this game, which is usually the data being discussed the morning after 3 dead bodies show up. It is a very cozy and potentially opportunistic position to be in casting suspicion on those who choose to employ conjecture as a tool. Especially when you don't include a suggestion for a topic of conversation that you don't find inherently suspicious.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 16:06:45 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 11, 2009 16:06:45 GMT -5
absent an unknown power,what is the alignment of the only soul that would have PIS regarding the deaths so far? that be right, town. I don't understand what you mean by this statement.
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Natlaw
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 16:11:53 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Sept 11, 2009 16:11:53 GMT -5
Natlaw, what you seem to be overlooking is that a Vampire has no reason NOT to play Town. It lets him try and claim Vig later, and all he really cares about are bodies. What drawback does he have? Less distractions for Town? That's a Wolf, and somewhat Cabal, issue. Alright, also thinking about it a Vampire also wouldn't want to hit any Necromancer. And since the latter probably is trying to stay below the radar, a noisy target would be relative same. Natlaw's puzzlement about why Meeko and SpecialEd's deaths smacks of both 1) trying to hard to sound Townie, and 2) a little bit of Perfect Information Syndrome, as he seems certain that both of those were scumkills (whereas it seems just as likely that one was a vilgilante and/or a magician redirect). Nanook, is there any reason you think Story could be a Wolves kill? That's oddly specific speculation you've got going on there. This definitely warrants a thorough readthrough of both their posts. Until then, have a nice, pointy Finger of Suspcion poking at the both of you. 1) Compared to Yesterday, there isn't that much new to talk about except the Night kills. 2) I said at least one was likely a scum kill, not that both must have been scum kills. Another thing I realized is that there is no Zombie Boozy, so either I pissed him off enough for him to stay in his grave, but more likely there is a Vicar who blessed him. A blocked/no Necromancer is possible but less likely in my opinion.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 16:11:57 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 11, 2009 16:11:57 GMT -5
What, specificallly, don't you agree with?
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 16:12:17 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 11, 2009 16:12:17 GMT -5
bah, sorry
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Natlaw
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 16:13:02 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Sept 11, 2009 16:13:02 GMT -5
NETa: relative same -> relatively save target.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 16:13:50 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 11, 2009 16:13:50 GMT -5
absent an unknown power,what is the alignment of the only soul that would have PIS regarding the deaths so far? that be right, town. I don't understand what you mean by this statement. the way i read the roles is that only the coroner knows who is who in the dead pile in real time. everyone else gets to wait. ipso facto, getting accused of knowing who is who in the dead pile is getting accused of being the coroner. the coroner is town. therefore accusing someone of being the coroner and then voting for that person is voting for a townie and probably not ideal strategy for anyone who would also be town aligned.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 16:17:05 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Sept 11, 2009 16:17:05 GMT -5
I think he's saying that the only person who would have any information about the deaths that have occurred is a town power, but I'm actually not sure and I usually parse peekspeak better than that.
Look, peeker, the people who did the killing know who killed who, and not all - indeed, dare I say probably 2/3 or most of the kills - were not by town-aligned parties. We could have three dead Town up there, and to say that three dead Town benefits Town is disingenuous at best. I see you implying that you're a Town Power - or that you think I think you're a Town Power, and nothing could be further from the truth.
Your statement about cross-kills is making a HUGE assumption: that not-Town killed each other. We don't know that -- again, it could be three Town dead as well as any other combination of deaths.
Yes, I agree that cross-kills in and of themselves are useful to Town, but I don't see any reason to make the assumption that's what happened last night.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 16:18:20 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 11, 2009 16:18:20 GMT -5
Gotcha. I think Sister Coyote is trying to accuse you of partial PIS with respect to last Nights' kills then, as opposed to comprehensive PIS.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 16:21:59 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Sept 11, 2009 16:21:59 GMT -5
Neat.
Let me make this as clear as I possibly can:
I think you know who targeted at least one of the Dead because you were in on it, and that someone in your not-Town group is one of the Dead. That's the PIS I'm talking about: you're sure that there was a cross-kill because someone in your group got nailed.
It's the certainty that a cross-kill happened that I'm voting you for. Not the suggestion that cross-kills are good for Town.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 16:25:17 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 11, 2009 16:25:17 GMT -5
Natlaw, what you seem to be overlooking is that a Vampire has no reason NOT to play Town. It lets him try and claim Vig later, and all he really cares about are bodies. What drawback does he have? Less distractions for Town? That's a Wolf, and somewhat Cabal, issue. Alright, also thinking about it a Vampire also wouldn't want to hit any Necromancer. And since the latter probably is trying to stay below the radar, a noisy target would be relative same. Natlaw's puzzlement about why Meeko and SpecialEd's deaths smacks of both 1) trying to hard to sound Townie, and 2) a little bit of Perfect Information Syndrome, as he seems certain that both of those were scumkills (whereas it seems just as likely that one was a vilgilante and/or a magician redirect). Nanook, is there any reason you think Story could be a Wolves kill? That's oddly specific speculation you've got going on there. This definitely warrants a thorough readthrough of both their posts. Until then, have a nice, pointy Finger of Suspcion poking at the both of you. 1) Compared to Yesterday, there isn't that much new to talk about except the Night kills. 2) I said at least one was likely a scum kill, not that both must have been scum kills. Another thing I realized is that there is no Zombie Boozy, so either I pissed him off enough for him to stay in his grave, but more likely there is a Vicar who blessed him. A blocked/no Necromancer is possible but less likely in my opinion. I was not thinking about the Vamps in this way either, and it does make sense for them to not need motivation to target any other non-Vamp player, only a motivation to try and avoid the Necro. Choosing to make kills that appear to have a pro-town motivation would be a reasonable Vamp move. Damn you, Pleo.
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 16:34:48 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 11, 2009 16:34:48 GMT -5
Neat. Let me make this as clear as I possibly can: I think you know who targeted at least one of the Dead because you were in on it, and that someone in your not-Town group is one of the Dead. That's the PIS I'm talking about: you're sure that there was a cross-kill because someone in your group got nailed. It's the certainty that a cross-kill happened that I'm voting you for. Not the suggestion that cross-kills are good for Town. well since i never said i was certain about a cross kill that makes you a liar. so that would be strike three for you in my book. i agreed with nat regarding it odd that ed and meeko were killed since it seemed they were possible lynches. i also said that cross kills help town. nowhere did i say that i was certain that a cross killed occurred. so if you want to vote for me for stuff that you are making up, that's fine. but at least have the decency to admit that you are making it up.
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Merestil Haye
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Day Two
Sept 11, 2009 17:49:53 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 11, 2009 17:49:53 GMT -5
Not at all. I must have just misunderstood the question. Julie seemed to be asking if a RV would claim and tell us if he/she hit an innocent after they did so...at least that's how I read it. And I was point out the very obvious fact that the RV couldn't because they would have killed themselves the same Night, I assume? At least that is how MOST RVs are...they kill themselves the same Night as when they kill an innocent (this is how I was in the game I was an RV in, at least). Yes, I know that is how Germaine worked. It is not the standard way of designing a remorseful vig. The standard way is for the Vig to kill themselves after the alignment of their victim is revealed by the Moderator. That's how it worked in the Alpha Centauri game that Sister Coyote was a Vig in, how it worked in Pedescribe's T2 - Behind the Scenes game, and how it worked in Conspiracy 2.
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