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Day Six
Oct 9, 2009 14:30:25 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Oct 9, 2009 14:30:25 GMT -5
Keep on going.
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Day Six
Oct 9, 2009 14:47:13 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 9, 2009 14:47:13 GMT -5
He's dead! He's dad! The wicked witchd is still dead!
(Sorry Bill. Nothing personal.)
Only two kill sthough. I can't see Pleo giving the Wolves two kills per Night, so there must be at least one Vampire running around - who killed Julie. (Assuming that PCM is a Vicar, the only possible killer is the Wolves.
Sister C is back (as anticipated really.)
Since DBI came back Town, I should be able to get some obfuscatiory mileage out of the Idle debate again. Maybe even a lynch? It's worth a try.
There's fertile grounds for a slip bif I come out "knowing" that FCoD is the killer of Idle. But I don't want to push that too hard early on Today. Ideally I don't want it to come out untll nearly lynch time so they have to stick to whichever poor sap has the lead.
More later.
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Day Six
Oct 9, 2009 16:41:00 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Oct 9, 2009 16:41:00 GMT -5
Goooooo pedescribe - FCoD is Cabal, Nanook Vampire sure. Too bad you're right about NAF.
-but- is Nanook actually a Vampire? He didn't get killed and we're missing a kill compared to last Night. Is the missing kill just Kat! and did Nanook kill Night Three?
That would make FCoD the sixth Wolf killing Night Three and Cookies luckily guessing the block / threw it out as a lie?
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Day Six
Oct 9, 2009 16:46:05 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 9, 2009 16:46:05 GMT -5
The only thing I have against the FCoD as Wolf theory is that DarkCookies claimed a block.
Nanook as Vampire. Hmm. Too bad Boozy's dead. We could do with his redirect Tonight...
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Day Six
Oct 10, 2009 3:47:16 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Oct 10, 2009 3:47:16 GMT -5
Nah, Nanook cannot be Vampire, but perhaps Wolf - DBI found him the killer of bufftabby. And since we didn't redirect there he's not a Wolf either. Also, we know (more or less) that Cookies is the last Wolf. Can someone at least mention that six Wolves is more likely than five (four dead + Cookies)? There are four Undead most likely (although it also means three Cabal isn't that likely).
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Day Six
Oct 10, 2009 14:28:53 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Oct 10, 2009 14:28:53 GMT -5
The situation is not really improving . I don't see Cookies lynched before either MHaye or NAF. Nor will a vampire kill Cookies while there is a lot of town left and Sister Coyote might keep bringing a kill back. Letting Nanook kill more than 50% (MHaye, FCoD, Idle or NAF), he'll hit Cabal, so that's not really an option unless we get a MHaye lynch Today then he might be more likely to hit FCoD or Idle.
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Day Six
Oct 10, 2009 14:45:38 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 10, 2009 14:45:38 GMT -5
I'm not that worried. I'll put up an answer to Sister C ;ater.
Basically, you'll notice that neither the Wolves nor Vampire(s) have targeted me since I claimed. That's because if I'm tellin g the truth all that will happen is that they confirm a Townie, and thus can't make use of the uncertainty surrounding me to hide things.
The only player who might have an interest in Nightkilling me is the Vog, and since the mass claim he's been blocked twice, so the Cabal are "obviously" following the same logic.
And if that argument shows just a hint of PIS, well maybe that's what we want?
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Day Six
Oct 10, 2009 18:25:35 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Oct 10, 2009 18:25:35 GMT -5
Glad I checked in here before responding there.
Also, Nat, don't worry about Pede. His reasoning is weak that I am Cabal because my power never worked. Right now he is the only one who seems to think so, I think most everone else has largely forgotten about me, which is also, more or less, the plan.
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Day Six
Oct 11, 2009 5:04:39 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Oct 11, 2009 5:04:39 GMT -5
So I'm sorry I've only been vaguely following along, and haven't been of much help. But if you guys get a win out of this (which I think is definitely within striking distance right now) I salute you and thank you for a total gift of a bump to my mafia stats.
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Day Six
Oct 12, 2009 14:08:53 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Oct 12, 2009 14:08:53 GMT -5
But an immunity is not a self-protecting action that can be blocked, right? (PM sent). Also still someone bring up the possibility of a sixth Wolf. And someone jump on Sister Coyote for voting for (almost all common suspected except Idle) people. I command thee from the grave! (Note: I would bring those up if I were Town, might not be beneficial for us Cabal).
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Day Six
Oct 12, 2009 14:17:27 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 12, 2009 14:17:27 GMT -5
Going by the post FCoD linked to, then yes the immunity can be disabled by a block. The thing we have to do is show Idle wasn't blocked. Might be fertile ground for the "slip".
You're right about the Wolf. I intend to mention it at some point Today.
Not sure about Sister C's vote. Seems reasonable.
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Day Six
Oct 12, 2009 15:00:02 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 12, 2009 15:00:02 GMT -5
I can use this as a draft notepad for my defences, right? = = = First of all, I apologise for my distraction over the weekend. Mostly it was my regular D&D game, but other things demanded attention too. While I digest the insight FCoD has vouchsafed, a comment on Sister Coyote's vote for me. You know...that's interesting, cookies. Vote: Mhaye because something smells. Vote: FCOD because although Idle could certainly be lying, somebody killed him. What smells? It might be the graveclothes you wore while we thought you were dead. Seriously though, it's not at all surprising that the nonTown killing factions have left me alone. Consider; we currently have 9 living players. Of those, how many are confirmed as Town? Two players are almost certainly Town; Pedescribe and Nanook. You could cast any of the others in an antiTown role if you make the right suppositions. That means there are seven players in the "unknown pool". I'll concede that the chances of Sister Coyote being recruited are slim, but they are there. It's obvious that I have not been successfully attacked Overnight. But that's not too surprising, since it is not in the interests of any of the anti-Town factions to eliminate me. At this stage of the game, with the unknown pool so slim, the killers are more interested in knocking off the known Townspeople, and since it takes two attempts on successive Nights to eliminate me, they're probably focussing their kills on other known Town, or people who can slow down the rate of attrition. The only player who might possibly have a good reason to attack me of a Night is Nanook, since if his attack had worked, I would now eitehr be aa proven Townsperson or dead. In either case, the Town benefit. Thus his alleged attack on me is exactly what a Townie Nanook should have been doing. That his attack on Night 4 failed suggests to me that the Cabal have come to the same conclusion and are blocking Nanook to keep alive the possibility that I am in fact lying. As for lynching me to prove my claim, we need to carefully consider whether we can afford the wasted lynch, in terms of the tempo we hand to the remaining killers. Remember their goal is to reduce the number of surviving players to the point when they are one-half or more of the populace. Our only saving grace is that the Wolves and Undead are working against each other as much as against us. = = = Comments? = = = Comments?
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Day Six
Oct 12, 2009 15:21:56 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Oct 12, 2009 15:21:56 GMT -5
I can use this as a draft notepad for my defences, right? = = = First of all, I apologise for my distraction over the weekend. Mostly it was my regular D&D game, but other things demanded attention too. While I digest the insight FCoD has vouchsafed, a comment on Sister Coyote's vote for me. You know...that's interesting, cookies. Vote: Mhaye because something smells. Vote: FCOD because although Idle could certainly be lying, somebody killed him. What smells? It might be the graveclothes you wore while we thought you were dead. Seriously though, it's not at all surprising that the nonTown killing factions have left me alone. Consider; we currently have 9 living players. Of those, how many are confirmed as Town? Two players are almost certainly Town; Pedescribe and Nanook. You could cast any of the others in an antiTown role if you make the right suppositions. That means there are seven players in the "unknown pool". I'll concede that the chances of Sister Coyote being recruited are slim, but they are there. It's obvious that I have not been successfully attacked Overnight. But that's not too surprising, since it is not in the interests of any of the anti-Town factions to eliminate me. At this stage of the game, with the unknown pool so slim, the killers are more interested in knocking off the known Townspeople, and since it takes two attempts on successive Nights to eliminate me, they're probably focussing their kills on other known Town, or people who can slow down the rate of attrition. The only player who might possibly have a good reason to attack me of a Night is Nanook, since if his attack had worked, I would now eitehr be aa proven Townsperson or dead. In either case, the Town benefit. Thus his alleged attack on me is exactly what a Townie Nanook should have been doing. That his attack on Night 4 failed suggests to me that the Cabal have come to the same conclusion and are blocking Nanook to keep alive the possibility that I am in fact lying. As for lynching me to prove my claim, we need to carefully consider whether we can afford the wasted lynch, in terms of the tempo we hand to the remaining killers. Remember their goal is to reduce the number of surviving players to the point when they are one-half or more of the populace. Our only saving grace is that the Wolves and Undead are working against each other as much as against us. = = = Comments? = = = Comments? Looks good to me. It's very similar to something that I typed up in your defense before I thought about how defending you would look. Straight to the point, and more importantly logical. The reason you haven't been attacked has nothing to do with you and everything to do with Cabal. To say anything else is to really stretch. That Nanook (who is probably town) would think that his failed attacks meant anything other than that Cabal had blocked him both Nights, is a bit disheartening.
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Day Six
Oct 12, 2009 15:28:49 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Oct 12, 2009 15:28:49 GMT -5
Looks okay to me. Perhaps that sixth Wolf: "...the remaining killers. There is at least one Vampire and a Wolf out there judging last Nights kills, but there could be a recruit or another Wolf besides Cookies."
Or even add: "Natlaw obvious claimed scum to coordinate a Witch kill, but why would Kat! and Cookies give themselves up if they hadn't any backup hiding?"
And yes, Pleonast confirmed that (non-secret) immunities can be blocked. So (extrapolating) a blocked Vampire could be killed by a Wolf, etc.
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Day Six
Oct 12, 2009 15:32:17 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Oct 12, 2009 15:32:17 GMT -5
Ah I see you already posted, well better late then never . Add to the second line: "Yes, the Wolves and Undead had a lot of deaths, but since the resurrections weren't know yet so their causes were far from hopeless."
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Day Six
Oct 12, 2009 17:56:51 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 12, 2009 17:56:51 GMT -5
So back to Idle. = = = Thanks to the link that FCoD provided, we now know from D05.138 that if a player is roleblocked, any self-protections they may have are suppressed. Thus, it is possible (if Idle was in fact roleblocked) that he could have been attacked and killed by a Vampire. This would explain how a Vicar could be slain and yet have a Detective be unable to determine the name of the killer. Now, that makes things look very black for FCoD. We know that he was enchanted N3 by Sister Coyote; she says so, and Julie (who we now have good reasons to believe was Town) denied doing so. if Idle is Town, why would he lie about his attacker? In this case, FCoD is a Vampire. However, if Idle is lying about his post resurrection alignment, then he's doing so because his killer recruited him. In that case, his killer is still a Vampire (because DBI got no results) and the suppression of his immunity also rendered him vulnerable to recruitment. The only open question would then be did FCoD actually kill Idle, or not? I can see arguments both ways. Before I go into them, I want to go through and rexamine the kills Night by Night. This assumes, of course, that Idle was roleblocked on N3, something about which only the Cabal and DarkCookies have any evidence. Remeber, DarkCookies attested that she attacked me on Night 3 and failed to kill. That failure was unlikely to be a protective role protecting me. - The only open protective role was that of the Witches; since Peeker died in N2, in N3 they could block or investigate, but not both. We know from Pedescribe that they investigated Idle on Night 3, so they could not have protected me.
- Of the four factions, the only one that was likely to be given a secret protective role would be Town. The only trouble is, we have good evidence that the secret power of the Town was the Witchdoctor's power to resurrect the dead. So it wasn't given to the Town.
- It makes no sense for Wolves to be given a secret protective power, and neither does it make sense for Undead, except in one case; making Necromancers immune to Vampire kills in the same way that Vicars are. Given that we had two Necromancers dead before the end of N2, I'll be surprised of there are any more to be uncovered among the living or recent dead.
- That would leave the Cabal. I have to be honest, although it's possible I don't think it's plausible. The powers of the Cabal in C1 were designed to spread chaos - the one I remember is that one player had a one-shot ability to randomly reassign all Night actions. (It never got used because the player died before deciding to us it.) In C2, of course, they had a one-shot unblockable kill. A secret protective power doesn't seem likely.
If I was not protected N3, then either DarkCookies attacked me and was roleblocked, or she's lying for her own lycanthropic reasons, and never actually attacked me at all. In which case, what did the Wolves do on Night 3? Sit on their haunches and bay at the moon in frustration? I doubt it. That wouldn't help them win. I'm quite certain that they dd attack someone that Night - and either they got roleblocked or doubled up on attacking either Idle or Julie, and submitted their kill order before the actual killer of their target did.
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Day Six
Oct 13, 2009 6:13:27 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Oct 13, 2009 6:13:27 GMT -5
Now, that makes things look very black for FCoD. We know that he was enchanted N3 by Sister Coyote; she says so Idle was enchanted by Sister Coyote N3, not FCoD IIRC. Hold up hold up hold up... what?! Since when is Nanook basically confirmed? -confirmed by DBI as killer of bufftabby, thus not vampire -bufftabby was a Wolf, thus unlikely to be Wolf (could be redirect) -Cabal unlikely to have a kill and then to use it on bufftabby (the last one also goes for FCoD's argument that Idle was killed by a secret Cabal kill - why would they kill Idle instead of a Witch?).
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Day Six
Oct 13, 2009 10:42:15 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 13, 2009 10:42:15 GMT -5
Now, that makes things look very black for FCoD. We know that he was enchanted N3 by Sister Coyote; she says so Idle was enchanted by Sister Coyote N3, not FCoD IIRC. That is actually what I meant tosay. I'll try and sharpen it. Good thought, but I won't say that. I'll just be surprisedf if anyone even asks.
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Day Six
Oct 13, 2009 13:59:25 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 13, 2009 13:59:25 GMT -5
I'm going to update my review of the gamestate again so I can put my reply to Idle on a firm footing. it must be said that the impression he leaves me with is that he i]wants[/i] to leave the question of how he came back unanswered, whioch really makes me think he was converted.
The Quick 02. Sister Coyote - Killed Night Four - Raised Day Six. Claim Witchdoctor 04. Idle Thoughts - Killed Night Three - Raised Day Five. Claim Vicar 05. NAF Claim Warlock 06. Flying Cow Claim Freemason 07. Cookies Claim Wolf 10. Nanook Claim Vigilante 15. pedescribe Claim Witch 19. hockeyguy Claim Magician 24. MHaye Claim Scotsman
The Dead 21. Boozy Squid - Lynched Day One - Cabal - Cabalist 03. Special Ed - Killed Night One - Wolf - Alpha Wolf 18. Meeko - Killed Night One - Wolf - Omega Wolf 01. storyteller - Killed Night One - Undead - Necromancer 17. Mister Blockey - Lynched Day Two - Undead - Necromancer 09. CatInASuit - Killed Night Two - Town - Vigilante 23. peekercpa - Killed Night Two - Town - Witch 13. paulwhois - Killed Night Two - Wolf - Werewolf 25. bufftabby - Killed Night Two - Wolf - Werewolf 14. Parzival - Lynched Day Three - Town - Magician 16. Natlaw - Lynched Day Four - Cabal - Role Nightfall D6 11. BillMc - Killed Night Four - Town - Role Dawn D7 - Claim Witch 22. Death by Irony - Killed Night Four - Town - Role Dawn D7 - Claim Detective 08. Kat - Lynched Day 5 - Faction Dusk Day 6 - Role Dusk Day 7. Claim Vampire 12. julie - Killed Night Three - Raised Day Five - Killed Night Five - Faction Dawn Day 7 - Role Dawn Day 8 - Claim Witchdoctor 20. PrecambrianMollusc - Killed Night Five - Faction Dawn Day 7 - Role Dawn Day 8 - Claim Vicar
At the start of the game I guessed 12 Town, 6 Wolves, 4 of us and 3 Undead. So, how close was I?
Town : five are dead and have had alignment reveals, and there are likely two among the unknown Dead. Among the living, Pedescribe, Nanook, Sister Coyote and Idle started Town, a total of 11.
There were four of us.
Two kills last Night make it likely that there were at least two Vampires at start, so four Undead.
At least five Wolves.
Total 24. We still need to fill in one - either a 12th Townsperson or 6 Wolves.
To make our gambit work, we have to convince people that there were no more than three Cabal at start. For that to hold water, we need to have a plauusible secret power that goes some way (at least) to explaining what happened, so that when the Town oiece it together they can go "Ahhhh" and not look for a fourth Cabalist.
My own favourite is to claim almost exactly the truth - that we had a number of redirects equal to the number of starting Cabal. Any number of redirecrts could be used each Night, in addition to our block, so long as even one Cabalist survived.
Comments? Other inspirations?
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Day Six
Oct 13, 2009 15:32:50 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Oct 13, 2009 15:32:50 GMT -5
Earlier I had the thought that 'your miraculous survival' was the result of a sacrificed Cabal (Boozy dead saved you N3 and my death N4).
Looking at the facts town knows: -Idle was killed by FCoD, who claims he didn't - redirected (or Idle lying). -Nanook claimed his N3 target was protected (and not blocked) - redirected onto protected pedescribe -Cookies killed Sister Coyote N4, meaning a Vampire killed BillMc (this invalidates my public wolves kill BillMc plan, although not sure it matters). But Kat! can't confirm or deny that and might even have chosen to kill BillMc.
So perhaps make it each dead Cabal can make a redirect? And Boozy + Me redirected Kat! and Nanook N4 to ensure a Witch died.
Of course, this might seem too convenient as a 'don't lynch me or I'll redirect a kill when I'm dead'. But it does fit the facts and might give them a bit of pause. Then again, the Wolves and Undead are not gonna kill Cabal, instead let the vigilante/lunch take care of that.
Anyway, town has settled on FCoD Today it seems - Idle would have been better perhaps. But if he's recruited Vampire and we have two kills Tomorrow they might be convinced lynching Cookies is the same.
We can also get a possible two kill (thus possible Cookies lynch) if we let Nanook kill (and if Nanook gets killed would not be able to confirm he made one of them).
Anyway not sure if a slip must be made Today - unless it's to get yourself lynched and have Vampire FCoD around to kill Town. That way Nanook might kill FCoD and we could have a Cookies lynch Tomorrow (which might be a win unless a recruit or sixth Wolf).
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Day Six
Oct 13, 2009 17:05:26 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Oct 13, 2009 17:05:26 GMT -5
Honestly, and I realized this too late toDay, our best shot at an easy win was to get someone other than FCoD or Cookies lynched toDay. Their best options would have then been to kill confirmed town and town would then have been in the rock and hard place situation toMorrow.
I say no slip toDay MHaye. Let's see what toNight and tomorrow bring. If the remaining killers are smart they will kill confirmed town, either pede or Nanook, toNight.
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Day Six
Oct 13, 2009 18:33:18 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 13, 2009 18:33:18 GMT -5
Or both. Why do you think I called Nanook "confirmed?" We need to get the idea out there that Nanook is a danger to the killing factions, not just because Nanook kills - they're going to trust us to put a leash on him Tonight, I'd guess - but because there is virtually no chance he's a scum.
Remembner, we know that Idle wasn't blocked, at least not by us. So that theory doesn't hold water. The most likely is that Idle was attakced by FCoD using the Vampire's special power.
No slip Today is fine by me. I'm hoping that we block Tonight and still get two kills.
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Day Six
Oct 13, 2009 18:45:04 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 13, 2009 18:45:04 GMT -5
Earlier I had the thought that 'your miraculous survival' was the result of a sacrificed Cabal (Boozy dead saved you N3 and my death N4). I don't think anyone would buy players acting after death, and certainly not the third Night after death. (The Witchdoctor resurrection power is plausible, but the Witchdoctors had zero control over it after death. Sister C couldn't resurrect Bill, remember.) The problem is that Town don't know either of the first two. We do, because we know what happened N3 and N4. In particular, the result of a protection would be exactly the same as that of a block - that Nanook had "failed to kill". See above. No-one's going to buy such a power. Something that had its effect on the Night after the Cabalist died, maybe. Three Nights later, not a chance. I don't think a crash sacrifice would work now. Better to reconsider Tomorrow, hopefully after the death of Sister Coyote. (Her power is too useful to Town right now.)
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Day Six
Oct 14, 2009 7:20:29 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 14, 2009 7:20:29 GMT -5
An update on the kills post from Yesterday. Nothing new about N1 and N2 so we'll start with N3. N3 : two deaths. The new information that the players thinks explains Idle's death really doesn't, unless one of the other non-Town factions has a secret power that roleblocks. I still think the most vialble alternative is a secret kill that can get through the protection afforded by open powers. Considering how vehement Idle was that Julie had been recruited by her killer, refusing to even consider the explanation that Julie put forth that her secret power automatically raised her, coupled with his behaviour Today, makes Idle a good target for a lynch. N4 - three kills. Kat killed Bill. Sister Coyote claimed Today that DarkCookies killed her. That leaves FCoD (to have killed DBI. N5 - two kills Julie and PCM dead. PCM's kill is likely the action of the Wolves, reducing the number of confirmed Townspeople. (Pede attested he was Town, and PCM claimed Vicar.) Julie's death means she cannot have been recruited by Kat. If she were a Vampire, she'd be immune to Nightkills except by a Vig. (Unless she'd been roleblocked. Man that ruling crops up everywhere, doesn't it?) Since we blocked the Vig, there's no-one that could have killed a Vampiric Julie. Hence she was Town after being raised, and we can trust her power claim. This has implications for trusting Sister Coyote; when Julie comes back Town, SC will be basically confirmed, and should become the Number One Target for thinking nonTown killers. I'm going to continue pressing Idle after the afternoon's jobsearching.
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Day Six
Oct 14, 2009 13:09:55 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 14, 2009 13:09:55 GMT -5
Draft vote post - I just wants to see how it reads in final form first. = = = I have been suspicious of Idle since his return from the Dead, mainly due to his style of argument. He selectively presents facts. Consider; he rushed out to say that the Vampire could recruit. He based this on the Vampire secret power in Conspiracy 1. He has never once[/i] admitted that the Wolves had the exact same power in Conspiracy 1, and it worked in the exact same way. Why? One obviuous explanation is that he was hiding behind his supposed immunity to Vampire kills, and didn't want us to think that someone else might have recruited him. He ignores answers to questions where those answer cast doubt on his assertions. When Julie was challenged to explain her resurrection, she said in D05.033 that she had been resurrected by the Town's secret power. Idle's next post on the subject was D05.046, in which he proves he read Julie's post, but ignores her (to his case) inconvenient assertion that she resurrected herself. If he had claimed it was highly improbable, or tried to disprove it that would be one thing. But to ignore it and claim it was never even said, when he has read the opost, suggests to me that he has no answer. Yet he continued to claim Julie was a converted Vampire. Those two impressions, taken together, are what set off my suspicions that Idle himself might have been converted, and was trying to either get a Witchdoctor lynched (thus eliminating a power role who can slow down the rate of attrition) or bus an Undead for Town cred. The Idle debate dominated Day 5, and not unreasonably either. Idle presents good evidence that he was indeed a Vicar at the start of the game; everything he said about his PMs , especially when he received them, matches with my understanding of Pleo's administrative routine. He still dismisses Julie's claim as unbelievable, but produces no evidence. Then we come to D05.119. He tried to prove that Sister Coyote knew he was Town and therefore must have enchanted him. This is false. Simple inspection proves that SC was relying on a Day 4 post to "know" that Idle was Town - by which time she had already used her power. Then there was the misstatement of the Witchdoctor's power. Early on in the Day Idle claimed the Witchdoctor's power was a Day power. He was corrected, and accepted he was wrong. But now, oh look! It's a Day power again, because he has to refute my pointing out that Sister Coyote didn't know what he was when she chose to enchant Idle. It's quite clear from all this that, whatever Idle's original alignment, he's playing to confuse people. Confusion is what the nonTown players want, so Idle is playing as if he is not Town. But we know he was Town, so he must have been converted. I really believe that he is now what his killer is - which we have no reason to assume was FCoD since that rests on Idle's unsupported word.
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