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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 22, 2009 7:33:45 GMT -5
Great game, Pleo; these are always fun and I think this one was very well-balanced. I wish you had instituted a vamp-can't-kill-necromancer clause for obvious and selfish reasons, but I don't think it affected the balance much. Could have instituted that rule then cut out one of the Necros.
I do wonder why the Town keeps winning. The game feels well-balanced and given that theoretically the Town should have a 25% chance of victory each time, you'd think by now we'd have had at least one non-Town win.
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Post by sachertorte on Oct 22, 2009 8:34:03 GMT -5
The evidence suggests that some of the 3 conspiracy games were unbalanced toward Town. Since the rulesets have been different, the imbalanced game simply may not have been this one.
For C1: I think Town was overpowered due to synergies of all the secret powers. As you know, now games have one secret power per faction, for what I think is a good reason. In C1, each Town player had a secret power. Some of these powers stacked in very powerful ways.
For C2: I don't remember
For C3: Luck was a big component in this game. Town was incredibly lucky the first two Nights. Also, I think the Witchdoctors were a bit overpowered, especially since their secret power assured their survival no matter what they did. Raising Idle Thoughts, julie, AND Sister Coyote was a big bonus to the Town (though Idle Thoughts should have lived anyway, the information about FCoD was critical to the Town's win). I also think the PM handshaking had a strong role in influencing Town's smart actions. I also think people discount the power of a Magician. While the redirect is random, the power takes a guaranteed Town kill and turns it into a possible Town kill possible scum kill. That is HUGE!
The only faction that I think can combat the Town's power is the Cabal. Town has to struggle to manage the Cabal win condition. Even if Town can ID all the scum players, they could lose simply by lynching in the wrong order. I guess what bothers me is that in theory Town could have 10 players alive to 1 cabal and still lose. In the most current game, had the Town killed Cookies before NAF, Cabal would win, even though Cookies was scum. Interestingly, the thing that saved Town was Cookies had no interest in helping Cabal win, which I think is refreshing.
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Post by Pleonast on Oct 22, 2009 10:31:34 GMT -5
Great game, Pleo; these are always fun and I think this one was very well-balanced. I wish you had instituted a vamp-can't-kill-necromancer clause for obvious and selfish reasons, but I don't think it affected the balance much. Could have instituted that rule then cut out one of the Necros. The Undead secret power was that each Vampire knew the identity of one Necromancer. So that cut the odds of an own kill. I want Vampires to have to think about their kill, so they're not a simple serial killer. I'm also bothered by the three Town victories so far. I guess my defense is that I think I've improved the balance each time. I was afraid that the Undead were over-powered this time. Two Necromancers could be really tough to beat. If a Vicar or two had died early on and the Necros hadn't, that'd be the topic of discussion. The Alpha Wolf had a kick-ass power, but it was inherently risky--all the Wolves eggs were in that basket and they were omeletized on Night One. I think a paraphrase of an old saying is appropriate: "No game balancing survives contact with the players". ;D The Cabal played more or less perfectly. If Boozy hadn't slipped on Day One, they would have won easily. Edit: Please don't take this is placing blame, Boozy, anymore than it's a person's fault who trips on uneven pavement. Everyone trips occasionally, and your number came up that time. For C3: Luck was a big component in this game. Town was incredibly lucky the first two Nights. Also, I think the Witchdoctors were a bit overpowered, especially since their secret power assured their survival no matter what they did. Raising Idle Thoughts, julie, AND Sister Coyote was a big bonus to the Town (though Idle Thoughts should have lived anyway, the information about FCoD was critical to the Town's win). I also think the PM handshaking had a strong role in influencing Town's smart actions. I also think people discount the power of a Magician. While the redirect is random, the power takes a guaranteed Town kill and turns it into a possible Town kill possible scum kill. That is HUGE! I think luck is always going to be a big factor in Conspiracy games. Well, not luck exactly, since the course of the game is always the result of the players and not dice throws. I'm not sure what you mean by PM handshaking. I think the good play of the Town near the end was simply the result of making good use of the available information.
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Post by NAF1138 on Oct 22, 2009 12:08:53 GMT -5
I also think people discount the power of a Magician. While the redirect is random, the power takes a guaranteed Town kill and turns it into a possible Town kill possible scum kill. That is HUGE! That was the argument that I was trying to make without actually making on my last Day alive. I was trying hard to push town to getting to the conclusion on their own, but they weren't buying it. Too little too late on our end. We got just a half a step behind the curve in those last Days and that was enough to lose the game. Still it was a whole lot of fun, I am glad I asked to be Cabal.
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Post by sachertorte on Oct 22, 2009 12:28:03 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you mean by PM handshaking. I think the good play of the Town near the end was simply the result of making good use of the available information. Mostly this refers to Idle Thoughts and PCM handshaking about Vicar details.
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Post by Pleonast on Oct 22, 2009 12:39:00 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you mean by PM handshaking. I think the good play of the Town near the end was simply the result of making good use of the available information. Mostly this refers to Idle Thoughts and PCM handshaking about Vicar details. Ah. I didn't consider that anything more than Idle blowing smoke. It was eminently forgeable.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 22, 2009 14:12:15 GMT -5
Sorry to be late with the thanks, but... Thanks Pleo and players It was fun.
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Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
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Post by Meeko on Oct 31, 2009 17:06:05 GMT -5
Oh yeah, This is that Mafia Game thing I used to play.
But seriously, frankly, it was probably a good thing that I was killed off as early.
Not sure who all knows, but I got an Internship.
Holy Crap does a "Real Job" eat your time alive.
ETA: And I would not have been able to give this game a fraction of the time that Meeko gives a Mafia game, if I Was kept alive. [Yeah I edited. It's not like I Was scu...... oh wait, I was.]
Now that the game is over I feel free to say this ::
I should have kept my vote on Ed. I still don't know WTF he was up to.
My strategy, the nonstarter that it was, was to play as " Meeko " . I wanted you guys to think me to be scum. -- No thanks to Ed accelerating it.
When the noise would have gotten to a low roar, I would have offered for someone to investigate me, if they don't believe it.
Hence, I asked to be Omega.
I see that the next game has already started. I need to look at my options, and If I can eke out the time to play again, I will. But again, I remain amazed at how tiring a Real desk job can be.
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Post by special on Oct 31, 2009 23:08:20 GMT -5
Yes, Pleo, it was a blast.
Meeko, your strategy had many holes in it. First, everyone knew there was a wolf who could evade an investigation. Aslo, it would require an investigator to claim just to confirm you.
I guess I did overplay it by attacking you so strongly. I was jut hopeful that when one of us died, the other would have some credibility as non-Wolf. Alas, I was even more annoying than I usually am and got myself killed too.
I'm still floored that in Night 1, Meeko wanted to use the Wolf NK to kill me. Odd, that in the end, it wouldn't have mattered.
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