|
Day 4
Nov 21, 2009 21:12:41 GMT -5
Post by shaggy on Nov 21, 2009 21:12:41 GMT -5
NETA: for this If you are against it, fine fair enough but to say we are demanding we do it, is true. All we are doing is asking what you think and saying our opinion of the subject. Meant to say "but to say we are demanding we do it, is not true. the alien might not want to talk about a mass claim That is true if that person was uncomfortable with claiming, or if that person is a PFK as compared to a 3rd party, or if they are a 3rd party but do not want to win with town but the infiltrators. Then yeah I could see that.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 21, 2009 21:18:25 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Nov 21, 2009 21:18:25 GMT -5
and actually, shaggy semi confirmed are a large threat. if kat doesn't flip mason and if boozy continues to be awol then if coca cola is lying we could be truly and totally fucked. even if kat flips mason that really only gives us additional negative assurance about coca cola. of course there are other specific factors in the nookie situation that tend to lean to more confirmed as opposed to semi confirmed.
additionally ed said dirx was scum. i don't know how that makes him confirmed except to the extent that dirx was scum. shoot, anyone who is a scum team member would have know that as well, right? i mean even if a detec showed up and said they sent ed a message then other than the fact that ed said he got something don't mean jack. unless they also knew the message that was being sent in which case what the point? except to the extent that it would confirm that ed got the message and truthfully confirmed what the message said. except ed could always come back and say, shoot i was blocked even if he wasn't. unless the hypothetical investigator knew he was lying about the block and could call him on that nonsense. in which case ed could very well have just reported that which was already known to someone else which doesn't really provide a heck of a lot of assurance as to which team ed might be on other than the fact that apparently he can or could be trusted to deliver messages truthfully.
so no, i don't agree. semi confirmed is semi confirmed. that's about it. 'course that's all we have so far.
unless we are talking about boozy. yeh, him i'd probably put in the semi confirmed pool.
or am i totally missing something?
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 21, 2009 21:51:01 GMT -5
Post by shaggy on Nov 21, 2009 21:51:01 GMT -5
But if she does not flip Mason then we know who to look at tomorrow, boozie and nookie where as by puting them in a "semi-confirmed" pile we essentially for the time being are not going to miss lynch on them and therefore look at others. The thing I think about semi-confirming is it eliminates the likely town from the not likely town. Obviously events could arrise that would change that, hence it is semi and not full confirmed.
I think peek If I am reading it right almost in a round about way your saying exactly what I was saying...kinda....I think that is part of the point, it would confirm that he did get a message and did truthfully pass it on. Which all I am saying is knowing he can be trusted to pass on messgaes, is that not better then what we have now, which not that I am suspoicious of the guy but essentially we got nothing right now. All we have is that dirx was scum, and essentially nothing more. So it will help validate his trust worthiness. So yeah I think we are kinda repeating the same thing here...LOL...
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 21, 2009 21:57:30 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Nov 21, 2009 21:57:30 GMT -5
Are you seriously suggesting in a game with only 20 players that we could have started with 5 or 6 scum* AND at least two kills per night, delayed card-flip, scum role-blocker, scum strong man, delayed coroner, hobbled investigator? That is sooooo powerfully in scum favor we may as well give up now. That game is so stacked against town as to be unforgivable. Actually I never suggested 5-6 scum to start but 4-6, because I have no idea...which it is plausable we had 4 to start or even 5 could be plausable depending on the balance and everything. Yes, you suggested 4-6. Included in that range is 5-6. Given what we know about the game thus far do you actually think that 5-6 is reasonable? If so why? I can't really parse this statement. We already know Ed was telling the truth that Dirx was scum. What additional information do we gain if an investigator comes forth and says "Yes, I investigated Dirx and sent the info to Ed" give us? Well, I'm obviously not adverse to discussing it, am I? However, I give you this: Sounds like a threat to me. Semi-confirmed, IMHO, are not confirmed at all. They are a threat to town by your very reasoning. You stop looking at the semi-confirmed and treat them as if they are confirmed. Gah, reread your paragraph above. I so wish that Kat (if she was a mason) did not pussy-foot around about her role and the number of masons. We really need a wiki for masons. Final question to all those advocating for a mass claim: Have you even considered that you will be outing the Dr? Do you all think in a game this top heavy with night kills that there is no Doc in the game? *I assume you are including the alien in your potential scum numbers. If not 4-6 scum plus a PFK alien in a game this size is just silly. Again, I'm not adverse to talking about it. Why are you adverse to answering questions about it? One more time: What is the benefit to town if we all claim? In small words please. No one has answered this.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 21, 2009 22:07:37 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Nov 21, 2009 22:07:37 GMT -5
steve poor form my friend.
that was one of my quotes interspersed up there. not appropriate recognition. copyright and all that shit, don't yaknow.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 21, 2009 22:11:24 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Nov 21, 2009 22:11:24 GMT -5
Yeah, my bad. I'm not good at multi-quote. The aforementioned quote was from peeks:
Still sounds like a demand to me.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 21, 2009 22:13:34 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Nov 21, 2009 22:13:34 GMT -5
So peeks, since you are obviously reading along, how about gifting me with the benefits of a mass claim as you see it.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 21, 2009 22:25:06 GMT -5
Post by shaggy on Nov 21, 2009 22:25:06 GMT -5
Here is a coles notes of what I have been saying...it maybe good because it could theoretically remove some of the un-known and there by reduce the pool of un-known for scum to hide in...theoretically. Also force them to fake claim in which said claims can be put to the test, with regards to keeping up the lie.
However I do agree and have said so, that the risks are there as well. which is why I agree it is not something we should just jump into.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 21, 2009 22:31:46 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Nov 21, 2009 22:31:46 GMT -5
otay. the way i see it. a mass claim makes sense if you don't think scum have got there shit together and that by claiming they either step all over each other or step on a town claim. now the problem is that even if you double up unless town picks right you trade a claim for a scum. at this point that could be problematic. the only times that i have seen it discussed is when town is kind of getting down to it. almost the nuclear option type of gambit. like i said previously i have never been involved in a situation where i was actually in the position of having to claim or not come mass claim time so this is new ground to me.
i do know that in a couple of games mods have gotten all kinds of gasterdly in giving scum fake role pms so that if town goes down this route it really is kind of, well, nuclear, is the best characterization that i can make.
i mean, right now it is not something that i am averse to because it seems like we need to do something to shake things up or change the pace or something. but i also can see the downside in that unless we can make it pay off really big we are kind of fucking ourselves.
the only other observation that i will make again is that it seems kind of gamey. now, don't take me wrong, i want to win, but i also know that i will use any of the rules (within the rules) to advance my position. i fucked sach's game a long time ago with nookie and even though we were within the rules it still felt a little slimy even though sach kind of said well played.
but having said that, if we go down the mass claim route then it really needs to be all or none. because if just townies claim then we be fucked. except that then would out the scum. except that probably a couple of them would claim as well and maybe a townie doesn't show up in which case we really are screwed.
so although it is not my first choice i will go along with it if that's what the concensus is. now having said that, who would be the first choice to suggest it would be either town or scum. so wifom and all that.
i probably have just confused the issue since now i am also having some second thoughts.
and regarding my "threat". i think if everyone is on board except for boozy and one other person then that person would stick out like a sore thumb.
crap, probably incoherent, but that's where i am at.
feel free to poke holes as you see fit.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 21, 2009 23:27:43 GMT -5
Post by special on Nov 21, 2009 23:27:43 GMT -5
with the lack of real information for now, and wishing to take a chance that might lead to something... I am in the pro-Mass Claim group.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 21, 2009 23:50:20 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Nov 21, 2009 23:50:20 GMT -5
What information do you think will come up in a mass claim Ed?
Fuck it you can't all be scum. If you want I'll claim first.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 22, 2009 1:34:08 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Nov 22, 2009 1:34:08 GMT -5
Good news everybody.
sachertorte will be subbing in for Boozahol Squid, P.I.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 22, 2009 4:31:06 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Nov 22, 2009 4:31:06 GMT -5
Good news everybody.sachertorte will be subbing in for Boozahol Squid, P.I. woot woot. now we should hopefully know something about nook and boozy/sach and kat as well.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 22, 2009 5:05:38 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Nov 22, 2009 5:05:38 GMT -5
What information do you think will come up in a mass claim Ed? Fuck it you can't all be scum. If you want I'll claim first. well maybe so if there are 4 to 5 of them left as shaggy suggested. i keed, i keed. in light of sach joining the fray i'd suggest we hear from him and then find someone to pull an order to claim if he comes back at all supportive. meh, my two cents.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 22, 2009 10:24:58 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on Nov 22, 2009 10:24:58 GMT -5
Hi. I'm substituting for the Squid.
Here's the deal: I'm what I call 'better than nothing' in terms of substitutions. Catinsuit tried to get someone to sub for Squid but found no takers. I'm rather busy this month and simultaneously trying not to burn out on mafia. Therefore my game play will be very different than what most of you are used to. I wasn't keen on substituting for this reason since I felt that would make for a quick, attention getting, and annoyingly time consuming lynch.
Since then I have become aware of the Kat!/Squid mason situation, so I feel that I can be lazy and not worry about defending a lynch. For this reason I have taken over for Squid's role. Not ideal, but better than nothing.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 22, 2009 10:52:29 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 22, 2009 10:52:29 GMT -5
Hi. I'm substituting for the Squid. Here's the deal: I'm what I call 'better than nothing' in terms of substitutions. Catinsuit tried to get someone to sub for Squid but found no takers. I'm rather busy this month and simultaneously trying not to burn out on mafia. Therefore my game play will be very different than what most of you are used to. I wasn't keen on substituting for this reason since I felt that would make for a quick, attention getting, and annoyingly time consuming lynch. Since then I have become aware of the Kat!/Squid mason situation, so I feel that I can be lazy and not worry about defending a lynch. For this reason I have taken over for Squid's role. Not ideal, but better than nothing. Thank denominationally-nonspecific deity. Can you confirm Nanook's Mason claim?
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 22, 2009 11:19:31 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Nov 22, 2009 11:19:31 GMT -5
not exactly the hearty ringing endorsment that i would have hoped for but what the hey, welcome sach
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 22, 2009 12:10:38 GMT -5
Post by Nanook on Nov 22, 2009 12:10:38 GMT -5
Thank you Sach. I was perfectly prepared to defend why my claim of mason would be suicidal for anyone that wasn't a mason, but thankfully now I won't have to and we can worry about more important things.
I think a mass claim would be useful. Could it out a potentially strong role like Doc or Detective? Possibly, assuming we have a Doc and/or the detective type role is still alive. But we're at the stage of the game, given the number of NKs we're seeing, that those roles hiding is far less valuable than knowing we won't accidentally put them under lynch pressure and have them claim at a less convenient time. Further, pinning scum down to specific claims means they can't change them later as the situation demands. Anytime you can force the Scum to lie is a potential opportunity for them to screw up and be caught doing so.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 22, 2009 16:09:16 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Nov 22, 2009 16:09:16 GMT -5
Vote Count
Current Status: No Lynch.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 23, 2009 12:33:45 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on Nov 23, 2009 12:33:45 GMT -5
Oh so very very quiet. You didn't need me to sub, Squid is perfectly capable of being silent like the rest of you. Though I suppose Absent Squids are not able to state that Nanook is a Mason. Seriously, if you were waiting to post just for that tidbit, you suck (but in a good way, really)
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 23, 2009 12:44:09 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on Nov 23, 2009 12:44:09 GMT -5
Oh and since I haven't had a chance to read anything yet, I'll just say:
I think in many situations, a mass claim should be driven BY THE DETECTIVE. That is, the Detective is often in the best situation to push for a mass claim based on the extra info.
1) Claim Detective and say NOTHING about your investigation results <--- READ AGAIN, very important. 2) Push for mass claim (personally I'm growing weary of claim orders, just freaking claim. The order that shows up is data in and of itself. With a claim order scum can always have the out of 'I was following the claim order') 3) Detective reveals results.
The beauty of this three step process is for every investigation the Detective has, there is the potential to create more information from counterclaims. e.g., Player X counter claims Player Y, but the Detective knows Y is Town. Yay! Now not only do we know Y is Town, but that X is likely scum.
Anyway. If you are the Detective, I think YOU should decide if a mass claim is worth it or not. If so, Claim. If you are dead, well, that sucks. I'm thinking Detective is dead since I would expect a detective to be jumping up and down wanting to share information.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 23, 2009 15:12:00 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Nov 23, 2009 15:12:00 GMT -5
Vote Count
Current Status: No Lynch.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 23, 2009 16:01:06 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Nov 23, 2009 16:01:06 GMT -5
I think the delayed card flip is really hurting town here. Our lack of information has basically brought us to a stand-still. At least we had a bit of discussion about the benefits of a mass claim, although I couldn't get a clear thought out of anyone save Nanook about how that would be more of a benefit for town than for scum. Bottom line as I understand it: Sounds pretty simple. But now everyone has essentially disappeared and we are apparently waiting for someone to make up a claim order. Well, I'll be driving a good bit on Tuesday and pretty busy on Wed. so if we are going to do this how about we do it sooner rather than later, hmmmm.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 23, 2009 16:19:41 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Nov 23, 2009 16:19:41 GMT -5
Just looking back at what's happened: Day 1, votes already summed up by Mhaye, Night 3. Chucara, town vote switcher lynched day 1, pushed by sinjin and his own crazy talk at end of Day. Night 1 GuyIncognito was noticed one last time. Survivor killed by BillMc vig Sister Coyote has been electrocuted. Alien hunter killed by alien? No kill by scum? Blocked killer/protected victim? Day 2 2.5 Pleo votes pedescribe2.27 Pedescribe votes nphase2.53 nphase votes Natlaw2.77 peeker votes hockyguy for no reason, hmmmmm 2.87 Natlaw votes pedescribe2.89 nphase votes Boozy as a placeholder 2.94 Shaggy votes Natlaw after his half claim, but did not vote pedescribe for the same thing? 2.101 Ed votes pedescribe2.111 Natlaw votes Boozy2.114 Pleo votes Boozy after stating he thinks pedescribe is the scummiest but ltl worked so well with Guy2.115 BillMc votes Boozy2.116 nphase votes hockeyguy so Boozy has some competition in the ltl race 2.117 Redskeezik votes Boozy2.119 MHaye votes nphase2.123 Kat votes hockeyguy and warns everyone not to vote Boozy2.124 Pleo votes hockeyguy2.127 nphase votes MHaye2.132 Nanook votes hockeyguy barring a counter claim of Kat2.134 Dirx votes hockeyguy2.137 redskeezix votes for hockeyguy2.141 Natlaw votes hockeyguy1.150 sinjin votes peeker Hockyguy, town roleblocker lynched for lurking Night 2 BillMc has been killed in an explosion, vig. pedescribe was impaled, tracker Natlaw was garotted, coroner Day 3, Ed get’s info on Dirx and that’s about all Dirx, scum strong man lynched Night 3 Kat has been killed in an explosion MHaye was also killed in the explosion nphase was poisoned Day 4, let's claim.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 23, 2009 16:26:49 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Nov 23, 2009 16:26:49 GMT -5
Oops forgot the code:
Masons Town Infiltrator Survivor Unknown
Pending a move on the claim issue I'm going back to my vote from yesterday. Peeks has been talking a lot but not saying a whole lot. He has not given a valid reason for any of his votes in the entire game.
Vote: peekercpa
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 23, 2009 17:14:34 GMT -5
Post by special on Nov 23, 2009 17:14:34 GMT -5
Post count from living players:
peekercpa 18 sinjin (STEVE) 10 shaggy 7 storyteller 3 sachertorte 3 Special Ed 2 Nanook 2 Pleonast 1 redskeezix 1
Vote: redskeezix for prodding purposes
sachertorte, can you make a claim order? Let's do this, please
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 23, 2009 17:32:36 GMT -5
Post by Nanook on Nov 23, 2009 17:32:36 GMT -5
Don't wait for a claim order, just do it. As Sach said, who claims in what order will give us as much information as who claims what.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 23, 2009 18:13:53 GMT -5
Post by special on Nov 23, 2009 18:13:53 GMT -5
Don't wait for a claim order, just do it. As Sach said, who claims in what order will give us as much information as who claims what. OK,then I'll claim, since the Scum have already figured out who I am. I was blocked on Night 1. I investigated Dirx on Night 2 I was blocked again last Night. I'm Claire, a passenger and the Detective I know...I know..I lied. I wanted everyone to know I'd found a Scum and I didn't want to claim. So I did what seemed next best. Anyway, with pede also blocked Night 1, it seems we have both a Town and an anti-Town blocker.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 23, 2009 18:26:15 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Nov 23, 2009 18:26:15 GMT -5
Well, might as well get this over with;
I'm Wendy, a Lady in Waiting, waiting on a dead passenger*, Vanilla Passenger.
*She's starting to smell and turn all kinds of yucky colors, none of which go with her outfit. I think she's bloating too, but it might be that time of the death. I didn't know what I was waiting for before the bitch died. Now I'm just clueless in space.
|
|
|
Day 4
Nov 23, 2009 19:28:03 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Nov 23, 2009 19:28:03 GMT -5
might as well.
i am ripley and i got the neopolitan role from hell.
so, what's fucking new.
i am a boddocker (my term)
i can sit with someone during the night. if during the night they are attacked by the alien i will foil the attack and also become knowledgeable of who the alien is. if the person i sit with is targeted by any other action i stand in their place. comes with a drawback, however. as a consequence of me sitting with them, if they have any night actions, then they will not be able to carry them out if they are able.
so, i will at least mostly confirm ed. i sat with him on Nights 1 and 3. i won't disclose who i sat with on Night 2, just yet because i want to see what else comes up.
so ed's story is consistent with my actions.
now, for those who would ask why ed?
here is the tortured peek logic.
the last million (overstatement) games that i have been in with ed when he was town he has pretty much been gunning for me as scum from the get go. sometimes he was right sometimes wrong. when he didn't start gunning me from the start i figured he was scum. the last time this happened was with him and meeko in c3. he was scum. so with him not gunning for me i figured, scum bastard. i knew i was going to protect him from the alien but also figured if he was scum it was worth the risk. for reasons i choose not to disclose at this time i decided on a different Night 2 target. anyways ed gets a result and i figure i want to see if he was bussing a teamie. therefore i block him again just to see what the fuck. if he is scum and was bussing dirx. kind of wanted to see what the fuck. if we get to claim time and he pops off other than being blocked on 1 and 3 without totally claiming niller then i've got him.
and steve can you go to the doc's office and see if they have an antidote for that viagra that you took that has my name on it?
|
|