Meeko
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Day 1
Feb 26, 2010 22:11:43 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Feb 26, 2010 22:11:43 GMT -5
I'm not ignoring you, Meeko, but this conversation has been fruitless. Perhaps someone else can explain it better. Complete and Utter Bullshit. It is not fruitless if we both just agreed that each player should be accountable for what they do, and nothing else. Two town vote to lynch a third town. One votes 2, another votes 3. You are telling me, that no, both players actually voted 2.5 2 = 2.5 3 = 2.5 2.5 = 2.5 Therefore 2 = 3.
And I am getting heat because I K N O W this to be wrong?
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Day 1
Feb 26, 2010 22:16:41 GMT -5
Post by special on Feb 26, 2010 22:16:41 GMT -5
I'm not ignoring you, Meeko, but this conversation has been fruitless. Perhaps someone else can explain it better. Complete and Utter Bullshit. It is not fruitless if we both just agreed that each player should be accountable for what they do, and nothing else. Two town vote to lynch a third town. One votes 2, another votes 3. You are telling me, that no, both players actually voted 2.5 2 = 2.5 3 = 2.5 2.5 = 2.5 Therefore 2 = 3.
And I am getting heat because I K N O W this to be wrong? I really have no self-control. Here's one last try. Both players voted for the person. Both players are accountable for having lynched the players. If we don't hold people making 2 pt votes accountable, Scum can avoid accountability. And here's the reason you're getting votes, despite your repeated attempts to make it seem like the people voting for you don't have an understanding of number concepts... You specifically stated that your goal was to avoid being as accountable as others. That is pro-Scum, pro-3rd party, and anti-TownYour consistent and relentless pursuit of avoiding accountability looks very very anti-Town. This is why you are getting votes.
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Day 1
Feb 26, 2010 22:18:08 GMT -5
Post by MentalGuy on Feb 26, 2010 22:18:08 GMT -5
pede, I think you reversed FCOD's votes.
I also wanted to clarify that I do find Meeko's play scummy. The reason I have doubts that he is scum is the same as what Ed mentioned. I believe his scum buddies would be reeling him in.
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Day 1
Feb 26, 2010 22:18:23 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on Feb 26, 2010 22:18:23 GMT -5
Hmm. Day 1 is almost alway a mislynch. I'm obviously not gunning for a mislynch; I'd rather hit scum but if we're going to mislynch, I'd rather it be someone who tends to upset the applecart in scum's favor. Which in this case seems like it's Meeko. So right now I'm considering a 3 point vote for meeko. In for a penny in for a pound as they say.
Meeko, using your 2 point vote and nothing else doesn't make any sense. If you're only going to vote once, use the biggest vote you've got! Town can afford to not be timid!
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Trepa Mayfield
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Day 1
Feb 26, 2010 22:18:58 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Feb 26, 2010 22:18:58 GMT -5
Please try to avoid dragging personal issues into the game. Let's not have a repeat of the story-sach near-fiasco.
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Day 1
Feb 26, 2010 22:26:30 GMT -5
Post by MentalGuy on Feb 26, 2010 22:26:30 GMT -5
Meeko, I am not sure I should even bother with this. Assume two players both had votes on the same player (We will call this player A). One of them 2 points and one of them 3 points. There are several other votes on player A as well. Near the end of the day, player A is in the lynch lead by 2 points. Because of the distribution of 1st place votes, though, if either one of the two players removed their vote from player A, then player A would not be lynched. So, either player can prevent the lynch of player A. Who is more responsible for player A being lynched?
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Trepa Mayfield
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Day 1
Feb 26, 2010 22:40:48 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Feb 26, 2010 22:40:48 GMT -5
Vote Count: Peeker 1. Nanook, 2. NAF, 3. Sista' Meeko 1. Nanook, 2., 3. Redskeezix 1. paulwho..., 2., 3. Luvbfwc 1., 2. mentalguy, 3. Sister Coyote 1., 2. peekercpa, 3. Nanook 1. Meeko, 2., 3. Special Ed 1. Meeko, 2., 3. FCoD 1. Spec Ed, 2. Meeko, 3. Mentalguy 1. Meeko, 2., 3.,
Meeko (11): (Nanook 1st), (Spec. Ed 1st), (FCoD 2nd), (Mentalguy 1st) Nanook (6): (Meeko 1st), (peeker 1st) Paulwhoisaghost (3): (Redskeezix 1st) Spec. (3): (FCoD 1st) peekercpa (2): (Sis Coyote 2nd) NAF (2): (peeker 2nd) Mentalguy (2): (luvbfwc 2nd) Sister Coyote (1): (peeker 3rd)
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Day 1
Feb 26, 2010 22:41:13 GMT -5
Post by MentalGuy on Feb 26, 2010 22:41:13 GMT -5
Peeker stopped his nonsensical #2 voting and presented justification for all of the votes he made. Better justification, I think, than his initial vote on Sister. That is enough for me to back off for now. And the fact that he filled out all three slots.
We aren't considering that to be a scum move? I thought we had pretty much concluded that "town" would vote in only one slot, and were pulling teeth to nail down if that vote would be at 2 or 3 points. Several of us would prefer that players would only vote one slot, however, we did realize it was a policy that we could not really enforce on everyone. The best we can do is question them about it and hold them accountable. Thus my questioning of peeker about what he would do if NAF were in the lynch lead by 1 point.
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Day 1
Feb 26, 2010 22:43:18 GMT -5
Post by shaggy on Feb 26, 2010 22:43:18 GMT -5
Hey everyone,
Sorry for the lack of being here...getting distrated with the olympics.
Anyways, that was a hilarious read. I mean it has been along time since I had suck a good laugh.
The biggest thing to comment on for me would be to Meeko I just have to say, I think the problem lies where you are getting to hung up on the numbers. You are focusing in on the point to vote system. I mean Acountability is you are eigther accountable or you are not. There is no half accountable here. You eigther lynched the person or you did not lynch the person. Sorry to say but there is no "well I only half stabed, shot and electricuted the guy."
And when are we accountable? After the event and the person is lynched. So another words in my opinion here the points do not matter after words for accountability. As I said why? cause the person was lynched. He/she is dead...six feet under...pushing up daises...Worm feed.....
So how they got lynched by points are to me no longer as important as who voted to lynch the person and why they voted said person. Whether or not you voted 1, 2 or 3, is not as big as compared to why you voted the person. Atleast after the fact, so the point system for lynching only applies before you are lynched.
As I said you are trying atleast it appears to me, to be trying to attach the point system to accountability, when they are about the lynchability not the accountability.
Now I think tomorrow morning I will do a much more in depth read and place a vote. I am not really sure yet who to vote for, since while I get the whole argument for Meeko at the same time it to me seems like a real newbie playing. And as others have said the one thing that makes me think you are not scum is the others would be screaming "dude get out of there and stop posting."
Anyways that is just my 2 cents, I am going to do a indepth reread and place my vote.
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Day 1
Feb 26, 2010 22:56:37 GMT -5
Post by Red Skeezix on Feb 26, 2010 22:56:37 GMT -5
Alright, I've reconsidered my position on paul, I still feel his swipe at meeko was scummy, but there are scummier things going on at this point. Also, everything else he has said has not pinged me. So I'm willing to wait, and re-evaluate later.
unvote paulwhoisaghost
@Meeko: The number of votes that you cast on someone does not reflect a proportion of accountability, since every vote counts towards the lynch. 3 does not equal 2 in terms of voting, but if you contribute to a mislynch then culpable none the less.
Here's an hypothetical example of why:
Say in a traditional game where there isn't voting differences that you are voting for a player who is tied for the lead. You then unvote that player, you become accountable for the lynch of the other player. According to your 2 not equal 3 logic, you had no votes so you are not accountable ( 1 not equal 0). But this is not the case, had you not unvoted, that player wouldn't then be in the lead.
Secondly, your me first style of play is pro-scum. Town players do not need to survive to win. Town players should attempt to survive and directly avoid scummy behavior only so that they do not out-scum the scum team and distract from proper lynches. I am having a hard time telling if you are a guy who is making mistakes, or if you are scum contributing to the noise.
vote Meeko (3 points)
@Dirx: You appear scummy to me, you have said before that you go into lurk-mode when you are scum, you appear to me to be flying pretty low right now.
@BillMc, Total Lost: I didn't realize that you guys were in the game until I was refreshed by Cookies' list.
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Meeko
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I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
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Day 1
Feb 26, 2010 23:19:20 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Feb 26, 2010 23:19:20 GMT -5
I so do not want to do this. I thought I was passed doing this, I thought that in my recent games, I had truly reached a new level of play.
But. I am something I have not been before. I am in a voting system I have not voted with before.
This has obviously done a number on me, and a few of the people who have voted on me.
Town, please take note of them now. I would suggest looking at people who voted me before the start of page 8. You will draw your own conclusions as to why I ask this, when I have completed.
I am Town. It is because I am Town that I know I must do what I am doing now.
Everyone is accusing me of a 3rd Party or worse. I know what I am, and I know I need to claim before tonight, especially given the votes.
I feel that given my role, this is the BEST move I can make.
It is not perfect. It is far from what I want. Believe me. I will re join you after my claim.
-----
Pichu (Town Involuntary Doctor/Vigilante)
Being a young'un, you were quite a trusting fellow, back in the day. You saw no reason why you shouldn't join Smash Bros. when the recruiter came by, no matter how shady he looked in retrospect. And when they kicked you off for popularity reasons, you weren't crushed about it or anything.
But it's been a few years now, and while you have not grown any less calm and unfettered, you have become slightly more wary simply out of necessity. There are lots of pokemon trainers out there, and most them are content to put you in a box forever. But you did like your fellow smashers, back when you played with them. So when they invited you on board, you went with nary a second thought. Maybe that was a bad decision, given how dangerous things are becoming. You're not exactly a fighter, you know.
But that's not to say that you're powerless. Your electricity is more powerful than even the famous Pikachu, despite your lack of control. As such, you must discharge your electricity each night, and what better way than by producing an electric field around someone each night? Of course, there's still the little matter of backfiring...you haven't exactly mastered your powers yet (if you had you would have evolved).
Summary: 1. Each Night, you must protect someone from threats by encasing them in repulsive electricity or kill them by shocking them. 2. If you protected someone the previous Night, the electricity will kill that Night. If you killed someone last Night, the electricity will protect the next Night. The first Night is your choice. 3. You cannot target yourself.
----
I am a half-compuslory Vig. I am sure that will outweigh being a half-compulsory Doc. I would have chosen to protect tonight, and then I would be force to alternate every night.
I love Mafia. I seriously question my future in it. It would seem that I need time away from the game. It would seem that I need to prove that I am Town in this game. I also would like to experience a full game being in the spoiled threads. The game needs to cool way waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.
I would like to think that the game is not personal for anyone. I am not so sure anymore. I think I would be surprised if I knew what you guys really thought about me. [And This is not necessarily a good thing.]
As I said before, it seems I have multiple problems here.
I think one problem just solved all the others.
Town, you will know what to do. Given how complicated my role is, I can only guess that I would be a real loss to Town. I would like to think the rest of Town could keep me in play. I would like to think that i could be role-blocked on even numbered nights.
I have done all that I can do. In spite of everything, I think this remains my best, only, and last play. If I can "press start to continue" that will be seen after the lynch today.
I am reminded of a scene from a movie. An Actor has finally realized that he has been playing a game all of his life. He searches for his one best and last play. As he finds it, the movie ends. He parts with the same words I leave you with.
Have a Good Day. And in case I don't see you, Have a good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night.
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 0:28:34 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 27, 2010 0:28:34 GMT -5
This game is shaping up to be a doozey. For all of the discussion of whether or not to try and impose policy, if so which policy, and then as the votes started coming in a bunch of people seem to decide that the best thing to do is put down just a 2pt vote, which just completely boggles my mind.
That being said, it is not line of debate that I feel at all confident trying to find scum in the people who happen to be espousing views that are different than mine.
I was quite surprised when Ed went after Meeko for a post that, to me, was either indicative of a townie Meeko trying to figure out a new ruleset (and deciding to reconcile things very differently than I would have) or a horribly awful scum Meeko blunder. I think Ed saw an opportunity to press an off-balance Meeko and try to keep him off balance, which seems to have worked and resulted in a bandwagon and a claim that at this point I'm inclined to believe.
So Vote: 1st vote (3pts) Special Ed
I also realize that this vote might make me look like a hypocrite, as Ed and I have made some posts that are quite similar and I have been in agreement of many things that he has said, but where we differ is that my motivation in the debates has been "I think you're wrong" and his seems to have been "I think you're wrong and scummy".
I could almost see it coming when Ed first said something to the effect of "I'm inclined to vote for you Meeko, but I'm going to give you some slack..." it just sounded to me (and even more so now) like he was saying, "I think you just dug yourself a nice little hole, but I'm going to see how much deeper you can dig it before I try and push you in."
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 0:45:57 GMT -5
Post by special on Feb 27, 2010 0:45:57 GMT -5
I could almost see it coming when Ed first said something to the effect of "I'm inclined to vote for you Meeko, but I'm going to give you some slack..." it just sounded to me (and even more so now) like he was saying, "I think you just dug yourself a nice little hole, but I'm going to see how much deeper you can dig it before I try and push you in." I think what you were sensing was my hesitation in going after Meeko. I have a recent history of going after players on Day 1who end up being Town. Aside from that, I constantly find myself questioning Meeko's playstyle. But I'm just not the type to sit back and let things happen. I'm going to push and question and see what turns up. But, honestly, what's puzzling me right now is the fact that a few people have followed the votes by Nanook and me. But there are a lot of potential reasons: 1. It could be what some Town are seeing as the best Day 1 case. 2. It could be Meeko's history of playing anti-Town no matter his role. 3. It could be some Scum putting a "safe" vote on an "easy" Town target 4. It could be that a Scum or 2 has decided that if Scumbuddy Meeko was going down, they were going to give him a bus vote. 5. It could be something else For me, it's #1. A couple have mentioned #2. I doubt anyone would admit to 3 or 4, but I welcome them to. And we still only have 10 people voting. heading into a Saturday DayEnd in about 18 hours I'll check back in the morning and take another look at the Day, including Meeko's claim. On the surface, it looked good. Though we don't know if pede has given the Scum cover roles or if Meeko and his Scumbuddies developed a good one, or, of course, if Meeko is being honest.
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Meeko
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I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 0:50:33 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Feb 27, 2010 0:50:33 GMT -5
Despite my grand exit, let me offer this.
Player A is Town. Player A gets lynched with 6 votes :
Town B voting 1 point Town C voting 2 points Town D voting 3 points.
You are going to look me dead in the eye, and tell me you have NO PROBLEM voting Town B over Town D ?
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 0:53:06 GMT -5
Post by special on Feb 27, 2010 0:53:06 GMT -5
Despite my grand exit, let me offer this. Player A is Town. Player A gets lynched with 6 votes : Town B voting 1 point Town C voting 2 points Town D voting 3 points. You are going to look me dead in the eye, and tell me you have NO PROBLEM voting Town B over Town D ? If Player B's reason for casting a 1pt vote was to be less accountable, then I would have no problem voting for Player B. Of course, if I knew he was Town like in your example, I'd have a significant problem voting for any of them.
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Meeko
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 1:04:46 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Feb 27, 2010 1:04:46 GMT -5
If Player B's reason for casting a 1pt vote was to be less accountable, then I would have no problem voting for Player B. That is just so counter-intuitive to me. Blame the symptom, Nurse the cause. I would think Town wanting to hedge on Day 1 would be a good thing. I thought that was my entire stance throughout. I wonder how many people skim in this, and in all games.
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Meeko
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 1:08:53 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Feb 27, 2010 1:08:53 GMT -5
Further, if you are going to go by Reason, over Number, Mod help us if scum lies.
But, if it is one thing scum never do, it is lie.
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 1:11:31 GMT -5
Post by Red Skeezix on Feb 27, 2010 1:11:31 GMT -5
Ok, meeko claimed doc/vig. What an interesting claim. At this point I don't know what to make of this. Since there is no "no quoting PMs" rule that I can find, it is quite possible that pede gave scum cover roles. I want to think about this more.
I might come back on this, but for the time being. unvote Meeko
Also: Day ends Sunday, not Saturday so we've still got ~ 1 3/4 day.
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Meeko
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 1:15:08 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Feb 27, 2010 1:15:08 GMT -5
Ed. Let's Change subjects.
It is rare we can agree on something. But I think we can.
FCOD.
We Simulposted on telling FCOD about Conspiracy 3.
I think that should speak for itself.
.........
FWIW :
Unvote All
3 point vote FCOD
I think the planets aligned here, and I think it is too good to pass up.
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 1:46:23 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on Feb 27, 2010 1:46:23 GMT -5
Well it doesn't. Explain to me the significance of you and ed both mentioning conspiracy 3. Because I didn't read that game so please educate me. And right now, it looks like you are deflecting.
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Meeko
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 2:08:07 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Feb 27, 2010 2:08:07 GMT -5
I appeal to everyone that has more experience than me. That is going to be a lot of people here. How far gone am I on this?
FCOD says this :
All I have to say is that it seems like Ed and Meeko are going back and forth at each other a lot and it feels staged to me.
At the time, Ed and I were still going after each other. As we take a breather, we both read what FCOD has said.
And then we both simulpost, rejecting FCODs premise.
We both reject that we are in collaboration. How would scum approach this? They would have no need for the knee jerk reaction. They would not reject the premise, they would ignore it, and take the vote in stride as they know a further gone townie also got a vote in the exchange.
Yet a Knee jerk reaction is what we had. I think this goes a long way in proving we are both town.
Scum already know this, if it is true. As I said, I have nothing left to lose.
I believe FCOD is Scum. Lurking Scum.
I believe that Ed is town.
I know I am town.
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Meeko
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 2:14:11 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Feb 27, 2010 2:14:11 GMT -5
Well it doesn't. Explain to me the significance of you and ed both mentioning conspiracy 3. Because I didn't read that game so please educate me. And right now, it looks like you are deflecting. We were both wolves. Ed told me he was going to to put heat on me in our off board thread. I thought he would do this later in the game. Not on day 1. But he does. He comes on hard. Totally not getting at the time that he was going for Town cred, I do all that I can to go after him. We start crossbussing each other. We both are killed night 1. FCOD basically summed up all of Towns reaction to us in the vote post he made here. I think Ed and I can agree that if we could do Conspiracy 3 over again, we would. We both know we are not in collaboration with each other. We both knee jerked to getting votes thrown on us for something that was salt in our wounds. I strongly believe that the timing of how the entire FCOD vote here, and our reaction played out, indicates FCOD as scum or at least non town. Also, given the timing, I think that Ed is as I am, town.
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 2:15:47 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on Feb 27, 2010 2:15:47 GMT -5
It could very well be that FCOD is scum and you and Ed are town. But I reject the assumption that because you simulposted, you can't be scum singly or together.
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 2:18:35 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 27, 2010 2:18:35 GMT -5
I agree that FCOD's vote justification is weak, and that he hasn't said much toDay.
I don't share Meeko's confidence that a scum would not have pointed out the Conspiracy precedent.
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 2:20:37 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 27, 2010 2:20:37 GMT -5
I left out "or a 3rd party" from my post. Are you forgetting that possibility too, Meeko?
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Meeko
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 2:22:57 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Feb 27, 2010 2:22:57 GMT -5
It could very well be that FCOD is scum and you and Ed are town. But I reject the assumption that because you simulposted, you can't be scum singly or together. We BOTH said that we were not in collaboration. If we can get to and from both boards, and type it all out, and do it each in our own voice in the time as seen over here, more power to us. I don't think a scummy ed would vouch for me not being scum [or at least, in collaboration]. It was clear that I Was going down at this point, and I dont think scum would touch that. I know that I am town. so I can tell FCOD that I am not in collaboration with Ed. The reactions were all natural, that I don't see anything as an act from Ed or I.
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 2:29:00 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Feb 27, 2010 2:29:00 GMT -5
At this point, I am really tempted to vote for Meeko. Not because I believe he is scum, but because at this point I feel like he has become the scum teams biggest asset. We have three or four players spending time interacting with Meeko (including me) that could probably be more fruitfully spent taking just a cursory look at several other players. <snipped all to fuck> this i can get down with. it proves my point how scum are currently playing.. ok i'll vote for someone even though i don't think they are scum but because it is just irking me or insert some other blather. oh they may be town but they are helping scum so much that we have to eliminate them. boo hoo. fuck if you are town nut it up and get past it for gods sake. yaknow this is a slam dunk for me. unvote allvote 3 pts mentalthat's about the most fucked up thing i have ever read. "they are most likely not scum but i'll entertain a vote to fucking lynch them anyways". sheeps and peeps and. btw. now you can begin to see the power of borda.
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Meeko
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 2:33:01 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Feb 27, 2010 2:33:01 GMT -5
I left out "or a 3rd party" from my post. Are you forgetting that possibility too, Meeko? I strongly believe that the timing of how the entire FCOD vote here, and our reaction played out, indicates FCOD as scum or at least non town. Also, given the timing, I think that Ed is as I am, town.
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 2:37:37 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Feb 27, 2010 2:37:37 GMT -5
and fuck about two hours late on the refresh
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Day 1
Feb 27, 2010 2:41:02 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Feb 27, 2010 2:41:02 GMT -5
but now that i posit a touch. regardless, it's still wrong.
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