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Post by peekercpa on Jun 8, 2010 17:47:58 GMT -5
Here's an idea. Pinkies has claimed the ability to kill members of the House of Chains. Let him continue to live on one condition: that a member of the HoC dies each Night. That gives him the chance to be useful for us, at least temporarily, since one HoC killing another reduces our lynch burden by one. who makes that decision pleo? or are you suggesting that the first time that there is not a dead hoc at Night that you will, without reserve, lynch pinkies? just kind of curious. and this whole lynch burden is getting a wee bit tired. this is not normal mafia. even if i were to lynch only hoc and dragon deck master dude, absent other kills, i've got like 10 - 12 lynches to go. gotta prediction: i don't think i last that long. i think you would agree. sheesh.
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Post by sinjin on Jun 8, 2010 18:10:59 GMT -5
But if Pinkies is right in his estimate of the number of HoC's besides him: three kill shots=three other HoC's then with zuma, Red and Pinkies dead the last HoC gets to ascend to however many virgins* his religion promises him. No worries.
*Why any one would want to have sex with even one much less multiple virgins is a mystery to me.
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Post by Pleonast on Jun 8, 2010 18:14:03 GMT -5
Here's an idea. Pinkies has claimed the ability to kill members of the House of Chains. Let him continue to live on one condition: that a member of the HoC dies each Night. That gives him the chance to be useful for us, at least temporarily, since one HoC killing another reduces our lynch burden by one. who makes that decision pleo? or are you suggesting that the first time that there is not a dead hoc at Night that you will, without reserve, lynch pinkies? Everyone who's voting on the lynch will decide who gets lynched. My vote, as always, who go on the player who's lynch will benefit me the most. What's wrong with using the term "lynch burden" for the number of players we must eliminate? Especially when someone else doing the elimination reduces the number of lynches I need to win. but people who have a win condition of eliminating that group, or so they say, don't want him dead. and he is an investigator to boot. And speaking of getting a wee bit tired, I'm tired of you throwing around vague accusations--you still haven't named the players who do not want Pinkies dead.
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Post by Renata on Jun 8, 2010 18:56:32 GMT -5
Here's an idea. Pinkies has claimed the ability to kill members of the House of Chains. Let him continue to live on one condition: that a member of the HoC dies each Night. That gives him the chance to be useful for us, at least temporarily, since one HoC killing another reduces our lynch burden by one. An admirable proposal. Tho with Normal protecting Story, it does kind of limit Cap's targets. It would also require someone to protect Pinkies, or whichever HoC has thus far gone under the radar will take him out forthwith. Nobody protects someone else without getting something significant out of it for themselves. So let's stop pretending that Pinkies' survival would ever be in the service of some abstract good for non-HoC in general.
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Post by Renata on Jun 8, 2010 18:58:29 GMT -5
Understanding or accepting anything about you is moot. Your hypothetical collective determination by vote is the problem. You may not have an official alliance with any clans, but if there is a clan or collaborative group of clans that manages to secure enough votes as to who your target should be, if you select that target, you are functionally screwing over whatever players/clans are not in the majority. That is not much of an incentive to participate in your proposed transparent exercise considering that each of us likely has a short list of people that we might trust and a considerably longer list of people we probably don't trust. Not if I do not perform an action that will benefit one clan over another. My activities are centered around me removing HoC members and the finding the MotDoD. That can been done without causing harm or giving one clan leverage over another. False. See previous post.
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Post by Drain Bead on Jun 8, 2010 20:11:05 GMT -5
If we lynch Pinkies, we are wasting a lynch, because it's clear from the previously posted wincon that the other Chains need to take him out in order to win. Certainly he doesn't live through the Night. It's essentially become impossible for him to win, so we don't need to rush things.
The lynch is very important for Ascendants, who need to use it not only to get rid of Chains, but to get rid of threats to our clans. Most of us don't have the luxury of a kill at our disposal, and therefore need to exercise this power through the lynch alone.
Unvote: peeker Vote: storyteller
There's clearly a tight circle of people making absolutely certain that story doesn't die. I, for one, want to make them work for it. Right now they're just picking us off, one by one, as we refuse to band together against him when we have the numbers, because we see others as greater threats, even though they are not. I'm not falling for it. I may end up going down, but I'm going down swinging.
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Post by sinjin on Jun 8, 2010 20:39:16 GMT -5
If we lynch Pinkies, we are wasting a lynch, because it's clear from the previously posted wincon that the other Chains need to take him out in order to win. Certainly he doesn't live through the Night. It's essentially become impossible for him to win, so we don't need to rush things. The lynch is very important for Ascendants, who need to use it not only to get rid of Chains, but to get rid of threats to our clans. Most of us don't have the luxury of a kill at our disposal, and therefore need to exercise this power through the lynch alone. Unvote: peeker [/color] Vote: storyteller [/color] There's clearly a tight circle of people making absolutely certain that story doesn't die. I, for one, want to make them work for it. Right now they're just picking us off, one by one, as we refuse to band together against him when we have the numbers, because we see others as greater threats, even though they are not. I'm not falling for it. I may end up going down, but I'm going down swinging.[/quote] A couple of questions: 1) Are you voting for storyteller because you think he is HoC? If so why not vote for Pinkies who you know is HoC. 2) Who exactly are "they" picking off? The dead so far consist of 2 HoC (zuma and Red), luvbwfc, who many of us thought was HoC, and three of us, timmy (a lurker with no clannies), oredigger (who pissed a lot of people off) and Ed (a lie-detector, a threat to many in any mafia game) my one and true clannie, RIP. 3) You talk about threats to "our clans" don't you really mean threats to your own personal clans?
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Post by moodymitchy on Jun 9, 2010 0:06:15 GMT -5
An admirable proposal. Tho with Normal protecting Story, it does kind of limit Cap's targets. It would also require someone to protect Pinkies, or whichever HoC has thus far gone under the radar will take him out forthwith. Nobody protects someone else without getting something significant out of it for themselves. So let's stop pretending that Pinkies' survival would ever be in the service of some abstract good for non-HoC in general. You say that whichever HOC "will take him out" this suggests that every HOC has the ability to N'K which though interesting, I don't find totally unplausable as we have already seen evidence of them having exclusive wincons and I believe they have no qualms abiut bussing another HOC. Just curious as to whether you base this in assumption or from insider knowledge due to things you might have heard in the background
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Post by fisheroo on Jun 9, 2010 5:46:44 GMT -5
In an all day conference in Ohio. Yay me.
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Post by Renata on Jun 9, 2010 7:34:32 GMT -5
If we lynch Pinkies, we are wasting a lynch, because it's clear from the previously posted wincon that the other Chains need to take him out in order to win. Certainly he doesn't live through the Night. It's essentially become impossible for him to win, so we don't need to rush things. Give me a break, Drain. It's completely obvious that you and some others want Pinkies alive reallyreally bad right now, and it's honestly annoying me that you're all pretending there are other motivations involved. I don't blame you for it exactly; I want a pet HoC of my very own, too. They have some rather spiffy powers, if you hadn't noticed. But what you really want, what you are really trying to do here, is to keep Pinkies around so as to increase your odds of being able to neutralize or kill the players you want neutralized or killed, at minimal risk to yourselves. No more, no less. This part I agree with. Pinkies fails for me on both counts. Likewise. I might "win" this lynch, but if I'm still playing in the morning it'll be a miracle, because you all think that to to get to Storyteller you need to go through me. Them's the breaks, eh? Sometimes your plans succeed and sometimes you shoot yourself in the foot.
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Post by Renata on Jun 9, 2010 7:39:55 GMT -5
It would also require someone to protect Pinkies, or whichever HoC has thus far gone under the radar will take him out forthwith. Nobody protects someone else without getting something significant out of it for themselves. So let's stop pretending that Pinkies' survival would ever be in the service of some abstract good for non-HoC in general. You say that whichever HOC "will take him out" this suggests that every HOC has the ability to N'K which though interesting, I don't find totally unplausable as we have already seen evidence of them having exclusive wincons and I believe they have no qualms abiut bussing another HOC. Just curious as to whether you base this in assumption or from insider knowledge due to things you might have heard in the background I keep saying I've seen Skeez' entire PM, and Pinkies has been talking about it as well; I don't know why that's so hard to comprehend.
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Post by BillMc on Jun 9, 2010 7:43:54 GMT -5
I don't blame you for it exactly; I want a pet HoC of my very own, too. They have some rather spiffy powers, if you hadn't noticed. What? Story is no longer good enough for you? fed up protecting your pet? Was Red not a good enough pet for you either? But what you really want, what you are really trying to do here, is to keep Pinkies around so as to increase your odds of being able to neutralize or kill the players you want neutralized or killed, at minimal risk to yourselves. No more, no less. As Cap said, he can only kill other HoC.....indeed YOU verified his claim as matching Red's -- so you suggesting Drain wants Cap to kill off others is total bullsh*t. because you all think that to to get to Storyteller you need to go through me. Them's the breaks, eh? Sometimes your plans succeed and sometimes you shoot yourself in the foot. No dear - we know we have to go through you. And we know you are orchestrating to kill off the day and night players that could possibly attack you.
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Post by Drain Bead on Jun 9, 2010 7:54:31 GMT -5
Yep, I know I'm targeted for death by Mahaloth. Because I am a Night roleblocker, AKA your biggest threat. Sadly, I think you have both the Day and night killers in your pocket, so it really doesn't matter--if you're not a Chain, I don't think anyone else can take you out. Makes the game a little less fun for those of us not involved, as you've created a bit of an impenetrable wall around yourselves.
That's why I want to take you all out. pinkies, as an exposed Chain, is only a threat to other Chains if kept alive, which I am perfectly cool with. But what I'm seeing here is a clear clan side alliances that consist of a Day killer, a Night killer (hi, blockey...don't think I couldn't figure out what you did to Ed, especially when you bragged about it elsewhere), a Night deflector, and a guy who is rumored to be a Chain or the MoDD as the one being protected from Night actions. Anyone who isn't in that clan should be targeting forces at you 100%, because in case you haven't noticed, that's four people who can only be taken out by lynch, who can take out two people per Day/Night cycle. For the rest of us, the numbers are not in our favor.
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Post by Pleonast on Jun 9, 2010 9:05:52 GMT -5
It would also require someone to protect Pinkies, or whichever HoC has thus far gone under the radar will take him out forthwith. That is the best reason yet to delay lynching Pinkies. if I'm still playing in the morning it'll be a miracle, because you all think that to to get to Storyteller you need to go through me. I don't know drain's motivation, but if you believe this, then you should be voting for story. There'll be no need to "go through" you to get to story if he's dead.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Jun 9, 2010 10:21:50 GMT -5
I am swayed by the various arguments WRT pinkies, and am willing to
Unvote: Pinkies Vote: storyteller
Assuming I haven't booched my code again.
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Post by The Authors on Jun 9, 2010 10:43:25 GMT -5
Vote Count
Pinkies (9): story 15, peeker 16, Mahaloth 21, Total 22, Cookies 38, Normal 42, Moley 59, SisC 79, sinjin 82, story 88, guiri 92, fisheroo 94 story (6): Pinkies 18, BillMc 19, Pleonast 35, Drain 36, mitchy 44, Drain 125, SisC 134 Drain (0): story 41 peeker (0): Drain 84 Not Voting (3): blockey, Zeriel, peeker
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Post by Renata on Jun 9, 2010 11:05:50 GMT -5
It would also require someone to protect Pinkies, or whichever HoC has thus far gone under the radar will take him out forthwith. That is the best reason yet to delay lynching Pinkies. Hardly. It implies a sizeable alliance around Pinkies akin to the one implied to have formed around Storyteller, and that alliance is not friendly to me or my interests. I need Pinkies dead to have any chance for myself personally, regardless of the following: if I'm still playing in the morning it'll be a miracle, because you all think that to to get to Storyteller you need to go through me. I don't know drain's motivation, but if you believe this, then you should be voting for story. There'll be no need to "go through" you to get to story if he's dead.[/quote] Like I said before, I don't respond well to bullying. It's a character flaw. Come and get me.
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Post by BillMc on Jun 9, 2010 11:11:29 GMT -5
I need Pinkies dead to have any chance for myself personally, regardless of the following: And there you go contradicting yourself again. You verified the authenticity of Cap's PM, which clearly stated that the Ascendents don't need the HoC's dead, and the the killing power of HoC's only applies to other HoC's. Cap is pretty much only a threat to Story.
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Post by Pleonast on Jun 9, 2010 11:18:04 GMT -5
That is the best reason yet to delay lynching Pinkies. Hardly. It implies a sizeable alliance around Pinkies akin to the one implied to have formed around Storyteller, and that alliance is not friendly to me or my interests. There is no alliance around Pinkies, to my knowledge. Pinkies is either going to be lynched ToDay or ToMorrow, or be killed ToNight. No one is on his side because he is a goner, which is why he's flailing. However, there is significant opposition to story. I don't know why others are against him, but it should be clear from his public statements why I am. Don't think that lynching Pinkies ToDay is going to dispel the reasons against story.
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Post by Renata on Jun 9, 2010 11:19:49 GMT -5
I don't blame you for it exactly; I want a pet HoC of my very own, too. They have some rather spiffy powers, if you hadn't noticed. What? Story is no longer good enough for you? fed up protecting your pet? Was Red not a good enough pet for you either? Red got caught in a buzzsaw. I wish I could have played the game with him longer. You're telling me if Pinkies survives he won't either take a shot at Story or roleblock me? I think that qualifies for Drain wanting Pinkies to kill or neutralize other people, don't you? I don't believe your claims of not having the non-HOC killers under your influence, either. Certainly if you can get them on your side they will be removing the impediments in your way to victory, right? Is this supposed somehow to be a moral failing? I don't blame you for what you're doing, but it does irritate me that you all seem to be trying to make it something it's not. Just play the game and drop the pretense. I protect the yes or no of my power because it suits me to have you all uncertain about it -- uncertain people make mistakes. But I'm not trying to pretend I haven't been acting primarily in my own self-interest, and secondarily in the interests of those I think can go with me to the end or help me to do so. because you all think that to to get to Storyteller you need to go through me. Them's the breaks, eh? Sometimes your plans succeed and sometimes you shoot yourself in the foot. No dear - we know we have to go through you. And we know you are orchestrating to kill off the day and night players that could possibly attack you. [/quote] That, or trying to get them on my side. If you're not trying to do the same, then you're playing the game wrong.
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Post by peekercpa on Jun 9, 2010 11:26:22 GMT -5
I need Pinkies dead to have any chance for myself personally, regardless of the following: And there you go contradicting yourself again. You verified the authenticity of Cap's PM, which clearly stated that the Ascendents don't need the HoC's dead, and the the killing power of HoC's only applies to other HoC's. Cap is pretty much only a threat to Story. "...all members of the House of Chains have been eliminated, ...." <snipped> from my pm regarding my wincon. now i guess we can pull a clinton and debate on what "eliminated" means. but to me it seems to imply that they are no longer part of the game. i guess they could bet beamed up or maybe just quit on their own accord. but it doesn't feel like pinkies has been eliminated but i guess i could be wrong. do you have a different wincon, billmod question: has pinkies been eliminated from the game, at this point?
could be just put him in permanent time out without lynching or killing him and would that be considered "eliminated"?
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Post by The Authors on Jun 9, 2010 11:31:36 GMT -5
We're obviously not going to confirm whether Pinkies is even HoC.
As I've said before, whenever anything that is relevant to your win conditions occurs we will inform you.
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Post by Pleonast on Jun 9, 2010 11:39:04 GMT -5
And now I have some insight as to why storyteller is a target: You're telling me if Pinkies survives he won't either take a shot at Story This is an implicit admission that story is a member of the House of Chains. nphase has given ample reasons to delay lynching Pinkies and lynching storyteller now. The only reason he's not voting that way is because they're in a clan together. That's a good reason for story's clan members, but they're can't be more than three of you. The rest of you need to consider lynching story first. Pinkies is going to be gone soon enough, with or without us lynching him. story seemingly has enough firepower in his clan to stay alive no matter what. He is the one who needs to be lynched first.
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Post by peekercpa on Jun 9, 2010 11:46:01 GMT -5
We're obviously not going to confirm whether Pinkies is even HoC. As I've said before, whenever anything that is relevant to your win conditions occurs we will inform you. mod question clarification: i am not asking you to tell me what pinkies is or is not. merely, has he been "eliminated" from the game at this specific time?
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Post by BillMc on Jun 9, 2010 11:47:11 GMT -5
You're telling me if Pinkies survives he won't either take a shot at Story or roleblock me? So you acknowledge that Story is Chains....gotcha. I don't believe your claims of not having the non-HOC killers under your influence, either. Certainly if you can get them on your side they will be removing the impediments in your way to victory, right? Is this supposed somehow to be a moral failing? I don't recall claiming I have the killers under my influence, tho I won't deny knowing who they are. Just play the game and drop the pretense. Kettle. Pot. Black.
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Post by BillMc on Jun 9, 2010 11:51:49 GMT -5
...all members of the House of Chains have been eliminated, As dear departed Ed already postulated, and that you already know since you saw Story's PM (as did Ed) that eliminated does not require them to be dead --- the can meet their own wincon and leave the game.
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Post by peekercpa on Jun 9, 2010 11:56:53 GMT -5
Not if I do not perform an action that will benefit one clan over another. My activities are centered around me removing HoC members and the finding the MotDoD. That can been done without causing harm or giving one clan leverage over another. ok, i'll nibble some more. who would be your target and how in the world do i know that i can trust you to take out that target and not someone else? how do i ascertain that your target benefits my clan above others? matter of fact that is kind of oxymoronic at this point. knowing that i have one two or three buds and there is like fifteen people that want me dead. ok, i'll play. i'll move my vote on the condition that you do whatever i say regardless. seems fair enough. unvote pinkies <bleached> you never responded pinkies. therefore, i assume that the conditions i outlined are unacceptable. and since you are an admitted chain ganger and since i know i need to have them "eliminated" for me to win, i will vote pinkies.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 9, 2010 12:03:57 GMT -5
We're obviously not going to confirm whether Pinkies is even HoC. As I've said before, whenever anything that is relevant to your win conditions occurs we will inform you. mod question clarification: i am not asking you to tell me what pinkies is or is not. merely, has he been "eliminated" from the game at this specific time?Peek, I get what you are asking, but with all questions along these lines I request that players remember that this is not a bastard game. Anything that is relevant to your win condition will be made painfully clear. So let me answer this by doing my best impression of a peeker styled response. When my wife and I first had our kid we were reading a lot of baby books, and they all talk about colic. My favorite of the books has this to say about colic. "If you are wondering whether or not your child has colic, they don't." Not totally peek stylie I know, but as close as I can come on such short notice.
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Post by BillMc on Jun 9, 2010 12:06:48 GMT -5
The Daily Rumour Mill Well as I'm sure those of you on "Team Story" are aware, those of us not on "Team Story" have had "Ye Olde Death Threat (tm)
" levelled at us if we don't join the "Team Story" love in and vote for Cap. So I'm probably going to be dead, (it's day 3 after all, tradiition) So I may as well share my theories and offer evidence. As you all know, Story is Gethol, Herald of the House of Chains. Live with it. NormalPhase has been protecting him every night redirecting all actions to a target of her choice.- The Ascendents need the MotDD dead, and the Chains eliminated.
- The Chains need to kill the other Chains.
- There are conflicting reports as to whether the Chains need the MotDD dead.
- The MotDD appears not to need the Chains dead as it is apparent to me that the MotDD is in fact in "Team Story". Where better for the MotDD to hide than in the inner circle of trust.
So "Team Story" - do you really think Story & Normal have your best interests at heart when they are consorting with the MotDD? The MotDD is now privvy to just about everyone's roles thanks to Story/Normal.
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Post by Mahaloth on Jun 9, 2010 12:06:54 GMT -5
mod question clarification: i am not asking you to tell me what pinkies is or is not. merely, has he been "eliminated" from the game at this specific time? Peek, I get what you are asking, but with all questions along these lines I request that players remember that this is not a bastard game. Anything that is relevant to your win condition will be made painfully clear. So let me answer this by doing my best impression of a peeker styled response. When my wife and I first had our kid we were reading a lot of baby books, and they all talk about colic. My favorite of the books has this to say about colic. "If you are wondering whether or not your child has colic, they don't." Not totally peek stylie I know, but as close as I can come on such short notice. Next time, use all lower case.
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