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Post by NAF1138 on Nov 12, 2007 21:02:10 GMT -5
Feel free to gloat town...scum feel free to bitch.
Town wins again!
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Post by NAF1138 on Nov 12, 2007 21:03:37 GMT -5
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Nov 12, 2007 21:03:48 GMT -5
Simulposted! Yay town! Even if I did get lynched twice.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Nov 12, 2007 21:05:54 GMT -5
Did I win or did I lose?
Or both? Yes, I like that best.
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Post by NAF1138 on Nov 12, 2007 21:07:00 GMT -5
Did I win or did I lose? Or both? Yes, I like that best. Both, you won and lost. Not bad really.
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Gir!
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What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Post by Gir! on Nov 12, 2007 21:08:05 GMT -5
Feel free to let us know what you liked and didn't like about the game, too. I want to know because I'm considering signing up to host again.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Nov 12, 2007 21:11:21 GMT -5
Can you unlock the Secret Diaries thread, too?
So what's the deal with the "Avenging Sibling", anyway? Did my role (Jubal Early) really give River a pointy blade?
And, oh, because now I can gloat again: I told you guys I had pro-Town motivations for witholding information. ;D
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Hockey Monkey!
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This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Nov 12, 2007 21:11:43 GMT -5
Wow! Yay town! I was hoping this game wouldn't come down to a 3-handed decision with me as the decision maker. I'm so not good at that. Good game all!
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Post by nesta on Nov 12, 2007 21:12:53 GMT -5
Good job town. See Idle, Roosh really did investigate me as crew. The game was won when Roosh claimed. He gave us enough confirmed townies that if we just went down the list it was over. I think your timing was excellent Roosh. Not to mention that it saved me because I think I would have been lynched Day 8 if you hadn't cleared me. My role claim was incredibly hard to trust, especially since my pro-town ability sounded like it was just copying dotchan's and could have easily been a scum one anyway. FTR, it was WTF's fornicating excrement post, along with a number of "golly, I'm so confused" posts early in the game, that put him above zerial as likely scum in my mind. I think mhaye did a really good job of taking over and making me doubt my read. Good job mhaye, that was a really tough situation to sub into. Hal, what ability did I give you that last Night? Sorry you didn't get to use it, whatever it was.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Nov 12, 2007 21:15:02 GMT -5
Nevermind about the Easter Eggs issue, I read the game setup thread, but I still don't get Avenging Siblings.
So who was the other 50% Doc, since the Backup ate it before he could be activated?
...and also, I'm surprised there were so few scum considering the town power roles. I was convinced there were still 2 left, either 2 scum (hi mhaye and zeriel!) or 1 scum and 1 recruit (hi Idle Thoughts! ;D).
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Post by diggitcamara on Nov 12, 2007 21:16:52 GMT -5
Well done, town! I may not have helped much (unless you count dying to confirm a Player as helping ;D ) but still. GO TOWN!
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Post by NAF1138 on Nov 12, 2007 21:19:10 GMT -5
Nevermind about the Easter Eggs issue, I read the game setup thread, but I still don't get Avenging Siblings. So who was the other 50% Doc, since the Backup ate it before he could be activated? ...and also, I'm surprised there were so few scum considering the town power roles. I was convinced there were still 2 left, either 2 scum (hi mhaye and zeriel!) or 1 scum and 1 recruit (hi Idle Thoughts! ;D). There wasn't another 50% doc. Idle was using it as a ploy. What we did was reinstate the backup Doc who would be chosen at random upon Idlle's death.
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Gir!
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Post by Gir! on Nov 12, 2007 21:26:43 GMT -5
Avenging Siblings: When one dies, the other gets a one-shot Night kill.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Nov 12, 2007 21:26:44 GMT -5
As NAF just said, there wasn't another fifty percent Doc. Haha. Well, there WOULD have been had I died, but since I never did after the accidental one, there was never a backup Doc activated. Also as NAF pointed out, I merely said there was (and also said twice, quite out there, that I "did not know who it was") to give any remaining scum the tempation to claim it. If any ever did, I'd know they were lying and thus, scum. I was actually hoping someone took the bait and claimed it...just so we'd be able to get at least one more scum down. Little did we know there was only one left.
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Post by nesta on Nov 12, 2007 21:33:44 GMT -5
... or 1 scum and 1 recruit (hi Idle Thoughts! ;D). I was convinced that if there was a recruit it was definitely Idle. His strange conviction that a recruitment happened, and early at that which would have cleared him, seemed very strange to me. Not to mention that it seemed like he was trying to set up a case against me even after Roosh turned out to be town. It seemed like he was trying to set things up for an end-game that he new was coming. If it had come down to three handed and I was still alive Idle would have gotten my vote for sure. Of course, I now know that I always think Idle scum, because I had him pegged as scum before he was mod confirmed in this game, and in the conspiracy game, and in M5 where he really was. If I play with him again in the future I'm going to have a really hard time convincing myself he is scum because anything scummy he does I'll have to dismiss as bias.
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Post by Zeriel on Nov 12, 2007 21:34:08 GMT -5
oh sneaky.
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Post by nesta on Nov 12, 2007 21:39:10 GMT -5
And I just have to add:
Top Dog as a name in this game? That's just evil. And funny.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Nov 12, 2007 21:51:18 GMT -5
So, scum: Did you guys ever consider killing me at all?
And town: Did anybody (other than dear ol' Idle) seriously consider lynching me a THIRD time?
Also: Did my replacing in after getting mislynched (twice, even!) earn me any sympathy/metagaming points?
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Nov 12, 2007 21:51:42 GMT -5
I expect Panamajack has a question for me.
I killed you because of the attack you fought off in Night 2. If it hadn't been for that I don't know who would have died. For a long time Roosh would have been the victim because I did not trust him at all.
Whatthefrak wasn't high on my list of suspects at that point, so I was never going to kill the last Alliance.
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Post by dnooman on Nov 12, 2007 22:54:10 GMT -5
Yay!!
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Nov 12, 2007 22:56:14 GMT -5
So, scum: Did you guys ever consider killing me at all? <snip> It may have been mentioned, but we figured the town would just take care of you for us.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Nov 12, 2007 23:44:16 GMT -5
Yeah, and good thing you killed PanamaJack when you did, because he was plotting to kill ME the night he was taken out. So much for my plans to try to run this town by hinting to the Vig that I knew he was the Vig and should focus on killing the people on my FoS list.... As for Dotchan. Yeah, I'm under the assumption that you act SO scummy that one of these times you might just be scum. So I considered the 3rd lynch, but it just seemed so far fetched. But no sympathy actually. I have VERY little sympathy for some reason for Subs who come in especially after playing. I'm not sure why. It was one reason I distrusted Mhaye, and the night I died, I ended up investigated TopDog, and would have cast the vote all out for Mhaye. So good thing you killed me when you did. And Idle you claiming there was a 3rd doc is what drove me to confess, as I figured ONE of the 3 of you guys would try to cover my ass if I claimed. But DAMN you had WIFOMED yourself SO much in your "journal entries".... Maybe I should have just put a comma "Crew, Investigator-Role specific". I would have been irked if that lack of a comma is what led you to vote for Nesta and perhaps ruin the ending. I'm glad dotchan pointed out that I had called Nesta PRO-TOWN many times elsewhere.... (-_-) And to whoever claimed that my role claim was fishy, and why would Townies ever want to lie about a role (waaay early in Day 2 or so), and I kept refusing to answer. Well. Now you know. : D Creating the role of the un-nightkillable Backup Cop was nice.... And It was something I believe that Ui had mentioned, it was the only thing in fact in his insane rant that I really agreed with and wanted to point out but didn't. He asked the question, basically what prevented the townies from just claiming roles to confuse the scum? I know it was a rhetorical question, but it was one that I totally agreed with, and was perfectly an apt description of what I had done.... And yeah, I might have voted for Ui, knowing that he probably was a Townie, but that he probably was not a power role, and lynching HIM was the best move I could make, and thus indirectly the best move I could make for the Town.... As I knew I made up my role, but I also knew that I was NOT scum, and Ui was barking up the wrong tree. But the force he barked with just made me want him dead, because either he was scum, or he would keep this up day after day, which would lead to nothing good.... So uh yeah... I made some evil Votes. Ui was one, the first day Dotchan vote ( I wanted to test that name thing dammit!), and the Jubal vote I'm ashamed of... at that point I was just convinced that Jubal and your behavior was scummy. And if Nesta you had claimed your role w/o me investigating you, I would have strung you up as well, because I'd think it was so close to Dotchan's role, and it was just suspicious again with the names.... So it was a good thing I discovered you were Town. Just wish I coulda made that connection w/ Dotchan. But i always think, man... she sounds scummy, and her role COULD be scummy. What if this is the one time that she's actually scum? it's always that WIFOM in front of me.... =( I know I'm biased with others, but with dotchan its so hard for me to separate my bias from it.... =( Also... I kept thinking WTF was NOT scum, just simply because he was idle so much. That's why I never investigated him earlier. I always figured that scum would lurk, but NOT THAT Badly... that's why i was irked to see that he was the last scum.... =( I never woulda caught it.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Nov 12, 2007 23:45:45 GMT -5
And I can't access the scum boards, there's still a PW there.
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Post by NAF1138 on Nov 12, 2007 23:52:43 GMT -5
And I can't access the scum boards, there's still a PW there. Try hitting refresh. There shouldn't be a password on the boards.
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Post by nesta on Nov 13, 2007 0:46:14 GMT -5
A few more thoughts now that I've read the hidden thread.
First, I made a really shitty sub in this game. Sorry about that everyone. I purposefully didn't sign up for this game because I was very busy at the time, but thought things would slow down, so I signed up for the conspiracy game. Then things didn't slow down like I planned. When I was asked if I would like to sub in here I did so because it seemed no one else was available, and since Day 1 was such a clusterfuck (and partly lost), and I had read it, I figured even if I was a little busy I could still help more than someone trying to come in who hadn't followed Day 1. What I found was that it was really hard to jump into the middle of a closed setup like this, and I never really felt like I had a handle on what was going on.
I probably should have role-claimed to save dotchanv2 on the Day she and Hal claimed. I admit that even I had a hard time believing her at the time, though, because even though her claim matched up with mine I had some crazy theories and she really did seem to be holding things back. I thought she might have actually recruited Hal and both of them could be covering it up trying to verify each other. This doubt kept me quiet, but I did consider trying to save her.
The other bit of meta-gaming I did with my role was that I was very suspicious of cookies due to my role being like hers, a role specific investigator, but mine didn't say anything about being blocked. I called her out a little on this, and was actually trying to set up my role-claim in case drainbead came back town. Of course, after drainbead was scum I gave cookies way too much credit.
If not for the mis-post I think the alliance would have won. I think they played a great game. True, the CK self-kill attempt seemed like a bad idea, but if it had gone off as they expected I think it would have almost guaranteed an alliance victory. Of course, now we know that it wasn't even the scum who killed CK as we assumed, but I still think the plan had merit for setting cookies up as confirmed.
I can't say I'm a big fan of the closed setups. I might feel differently if I play in one again, but this game turned out to be way too meta-gaming heavy. I fell into this myself. When there isn't any solid information to latch onto I think players tend to invent the most paranoid scenarios. I do think that a closed setup would be a little better in a smaller game, where there isn't so much noise to sift through. No one seemed to be going back through voting histories or even looking back through past interactions between players, and I think people would have been more willing to if there had only been 20 or so players to start.
I think the next game I play in will have to be a simple one, nice and open, with no special super-secret roles. I think the games are getting more and more complex on the SDMB (and here) because the designers have all these great ideas and want to come up with the "best game ever" and end up over-thinking them. Not that I think any of these games were less than great setups, but I do think it's getting to the point where the players are spending more time examining the game structure rather than the other players. I also think it's easy for the balance to get very difficult. For example in the conspiracy game the scum had a very hard time of it since there were no vanilla roles to claim, but it was an open setup, so they had nowhere to hide. In this game there was so much flavor going on that it was hard to look past it.
Overall I thought the game balance was very well thought out, and up until the mis-post it could have easily gone either way. Well done NAF and Kat, and thanks for hosting the game.
One other thing I want to share in my line of crazy theories: I did try to go back and review votes and actions. After cookies and pygmy were outed I read back through most of the posts by the four known scum. What I found was that they were all jumping on each other and even doing things to get the others lynched, like pygmy jumping on cookies for the scum investigator "slip". I then figured that they seemed to be doing it a little too much, and that they would actually end up more likely to jump on scum than on town. I then tried to cross-check this with people they had gone after who hadn't been lynched yet, and I found a post by CK listing his "possible scum" and CatInASuit was on it, and I'm pretty sure WTF was as well. Then I read back through Day 1 and noticed some strange interaction between Roosh and CIAS. So somehow I managed to dismiss WTF a little and decided CIAS and Roosh were the two remaining scum, which is why even after Roosh cleared me I thought it was a scum ploy. Sometimes I look back on what I was thinking in hindsight and can only shake my head, but at least now that I know Roosh was lying about his original claim I can blame it on that.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Nov 13, 2007 1:09:14 GMT -5
~ yeah, I still can't enter, it asks me for my name/pw. And when I enter in my Roosh one it says its invalid....
Any help from the mods on this one??
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Nov 13, 2007 1:33:30 GMT -5
The pw is 'aliance', with only one l
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Nov 13, 2007 2:05:35 GMT -5
I dunno exactly how I WIFOM'ed anything with my journal entries, but *shrugs* whatever you say. I rarely do anything I say I'm going to do in the game topic when I'm Town anyway. I protected Hal three or four times in a row and told Town I was protecting myself. Same with sach in The Conspiracy. I showed the most suspicion of him in that game, yet was making sure he was protected each Night. I made up the fifty precent Doc thing just to give a sign of someone lying if they tried to claim it. Sorry it caused you to come out of the closet regarding your role, Roosh. Heck, you even saw the thoughts I had about what I was going to do based on strong suspicions. But thankfully I figured it was too much at risk to be wrong. It doesn't matter anyway. This is my last game. I'm officially making this my retirement post from playing this game for at LEAST a year. Hosting I'll do. Co-hosting I'll do. Helping with other's game balance or roles or advice I'll do. Letting people host games here I'll always do. But I have no desire to play anymore myself for a long while. Thank you, NAF and Kat for hosting.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Nov 13, 2007 2:07:05 GMT -5
Oh yeah, and I thought my journal entries were cool! Original. I enjoyed writing them. So TTTTTPPPPTTHHHHHHHHBBBBTTHHHHHH!!! to you Roosh! Nyah!
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Post by CatInASuit on Nov 13, 2007 5:41:24 GMT -5
Well what do you know. I was right about whattheHaye, congrats to the town for finishing off the scum and "Yah Boo sucks to be you" to the scum. Good game all. Oh and Cookies - I will still maintain it was a scum slip
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