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Post by Dirx on Feb 8, 2011 16:17:46 GMT -5
severe delays--since you apparently are set to achieve your wincon Today, I will ask again: what is it? And I'll also add: Just how exactly were your antics at the end of the Day Yesterday an effort to achieve that wincon? You said you needed to find a couple people. I don't see how your constantly-shifting votes were supposed to help.
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Post by severe delays on Feb 8, 2011 16:33:31 GMT -5
Oh that was just devilment. ;D
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Post by guiri on Feb 8, 2011 16:40:39 GMT -5
Which I enjoyed FWIW.
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Post by severe delays on Feb 8, 2011 16:58:00 GMT -5
It was fun, wasn't it. ;D
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Post by Dirx on Feb 8, 2011 17:03:10 GMT -5
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Post by severe delays on Feb 8, 2011 17:08:43 GMT -5
Voting for you wasn't just devilment. The rest was.
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Post by Dirx on Feb 8, 2011 17:18:20 GMT -5
Ok then, so please answer my question how voting for me helped you, and what exactly your wincon is (if you have indeed achieved it, why not reveal it?). You said something about needing to find a couple people--one of whom name-claimed, and the other you said you figured out based on their stated wincon. Did/do you think I'm the latter? 'Cause if so, I'm not so sure I'm actually the one you're looking for.
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Post by severe delays on Feb 8, 2011 17:26:05 GMT -5
I wasn't looking for you. I just wanted to be first to achieve a wincon. I'm still not absolutely sure that I will be first to do so but I think there's a high probability. If I had not voted for you then you'd have beat me to the punch. You'll note that I didn't bother to vote for KidV at any point despite him having a similar wincon to you. The fact he is obliged to take longer to reach his endgame means he can't interfere with mine. Neither true altruist nor true humbug - pragmatism wins.
As for who I was looking for, I'm not going to say. I don't know what their wincons are and I don't know if they are involved in anyone else's wincon. Unless I know those things I'm not going to draw attention to them. If people want to vote to lynch me that's fine and if it helps I'll vote for myself if you all want me to. But it's a big waste of votes. I would urge everyone to now concentrate on working out what we as a group want to do and how we are best going to achieve that.
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Post by Dirx on Feb 8, 2011 17:43:34 GMT -5
I'm not sure what we should be doing. Knowing Ulla, the setup has one or both of the following complications: - Many wincons are so intermingled in such a way as to make it very difficult if not impossible to allow all players to win in the time allowed.
- There are exclusive wincons and/or malicious roles that actively bring about or seek the failure of other players' wincons.
In the case of the former, if we all want to win, then we're all going to have to share. But doing so risks all kinds of hell if the latter is in play. The optimist in me, combined with the lack of a mentioned Scum/Town dynamic, is hopeful that--devilry aside--there are no malicious roles/wincons, and we might actually be able to productively work together. Yes, this is a change from my big post Yesterday. After thinking about it some more, and seeing some of the other wincons that have been stated and hinted at, I'm now looking at the set of collected wincons as an interesting logic puzzle. Instead of figuring out who's who and what's what, the challenge is in unravelling what we have to do to get everyone to win with no one left behind (if that's even still possible).
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 8, 2011 18:18:02 GMT -5
I don't see any way to figure this thing out in the way Dirx suggests. If there are exclusive Wincons (even if they're only exclusive to certain other roles), and we can't know for sure that there aren't, then we can't trust anybody to report their rolename or wincon truthfully. And if we don't have perfect knowledge, a perfect solution is not possible. I'm content to assist those who I believe are content to assist me. That means I get to make judgement calls based on what you all type, which brings this squarely back into the realm of Mafia, which I know how to play. I'm good with my vote for now.
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Post by severe delays on Feb 8, 2011 18:31:33 GMT -5
I don't think sharing is the answer. It's too easy to give information away which others find useful. They don't then have to share the information they have which might help you.
This is an everyone for themselves sort of game. The key is to discover how to manipulate others in order to achieve wincon.
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Post by Dirx on Feb 8, 2011 18:45:41 GMT -5
Well dang, for once I'm not the cynical one. If you don't think altruism will work, that's fine. I was just brainstorming out loud. Though now that I've revealed my wincon, I am at everyone else's mercy regarding when (or even if) I win, so I definitely have a vested interest in hoping for unselfish players.
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 8, 2011 18:50:37 GMT -5
Well dang, for once I'm not the cynical one. If you don't think altruism will work, that's fine. I was just brainstorming out loud. Though now that I've revealed my wincon, I am at everyone else's mercy regarding when (or even if) I win, so I definitely have a vested interest in hoping for unselfish players. Not what I said. Altruistic is my middle name (mostly because my wincon wasn't conducive to being a dick ). I just don't think analysis will help, since it depends on everybody being truthful. As has been demonstrated, they won't. Some folks in this game will identify as "Town", and be helpful. Others will identify as "Scum", and won't. I'm interested in helping folks that wanna play for the good guys.
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Post by severe delays on Feb 8, 2011 19:04:45 GMT -5
Well dang, for once I'm not the cynical one. If you don't think altruism will work, that's fine. I was just brainstorming out loud. Though now that I've revealed my wincon, I am at everyone else's mercy regarding when (or even if) I win, so I definitely have a vested interest in hoping for unselfish players. I think it works in parts. You'll note I started out working co-operatively and only switched slightly when my own wants would have been disrupted. Even during my naughty spell I was trying to direct others to voting for a triple-lynch at the end. I'm not against the idea of us working together. It's the mechanics of it that I'm finding problematic. Altruism is a good thing but I don't think that complete openness is necessarily good. As you say, you are now at the mercy of everyone else and you've gained nothing by it. That's by way of a general comment. For you specifically I'd say the only way you can gain ground now is to work hard at helping others achieve their wincon. Exactly how that is to be done, I'm not sure yet.
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Post by Renata on Feb 8, 2011 19:21:04 GMT -5
@ Bill, I know a bartender but you have to call him by his name... He does good cocktails. If you get it, can you try again with my name instead of Zuma's? I should have known better than to try to be coy when I was coming down with a fever.
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Post by special on Feb 8, 2011 20:49:39 GMT -5
*wanders in and drops off a few goats*
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Post by severe delays on Feb 8, 2011 21:00:17 GMT -5
*has flashbacks*
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Post by septimus on Feb 9, 2011 0:48:53 GMT -5
I'll be an altruist with you, septimus. I don't want you to feel bad. So what do you need? I'll cooperate today with anyone who needs it. It's good to see several altruists here. It gives hope for the future of civilization. I'm content to assist those who I believe are content to assist me. Well dang, for once I'm not the cynical one.... I am at everyone else's mercy regarding when (or even if) I win, so I definitely have a vested interest in hoping for unselfish players. Even enlightened self-interest is good. I sure wouldn't mind (especially with my 1-30 game record) at seeing everyone win this game. So please altruists: help Strangelove now. If severe is Lynched toDay, I win! It can be a tied-lynch; lynching archangel as well as severe will be fine for me. I think there may be good reasons to lynch severe anyway (she's almost declared Humbug, disrupted Dirx' win, and is evasive about her wincon) but my main motive now is that lynching severe toDay fulfills my wincon. Since honesty is a mark of altruism, I'll admit that failure to Lynch severe won't necessarily be fatal for me, and fellow altruists might prefer to keep me unfulfilled for a few more Days, just to ensure I'll keep doing good deeds. (Perhaps I should threaten to switch to the Dark Side if I'm left to linger unrequited, but I doubt anyone would believe that, coming from a pussycat such as I.)
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Post by guiri on Feb 9, 2011 1:58:14 GMT -5
So please altruists: help Strangelove now. If severe is Lynched toDay, I win![...] Since honesty is a mark of altruism, I'll admit that failure to Lynch severe won't necessarily be fatal for me @ Strangelove, how many alternative wincons do you have? @ Bill and Sinjin, it's clear you don't want to help me. How can I help you two reach your wincons so you stop preventing me from reaching mine by leaving the game?
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Post by Captain Klutz on Feb 9, 2011 2:01:19 GMT -5
There look to be a number of people who are going to win toDay.
Dr Strangelove, I am happy to help you lynch Severe Delays, but it may be better (for me) to delay that for a Day.
KidV and Dirx, you look to be at the mercy of other players, that they not vote for you. I am happy to help you with this, but I would like some help too...
To win, I need to identify a number of players that are still in the game (those that have won and left don't count). So Dr Strangelove, KidV and Dirx, how do you feel about sharing your role name?
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Post by severe delays on Feb 9, 2011 8:38:29 GMT -5
By my count, Zuma, KidV, Dirx, Strangelove and I all have the potential to leave the game at the end of Day.
Now if everyone is telling the truth then Zuma and I had to identify people; Dirx and KidV had to go a certain amount of time without being voted for/voting; guiri has to get 'love' (attention?) from others and Strangelove has to kill a specified target.
I conclude that as the wincons which involved identifying others and managing votes were given to two people then the other wincons must be too. Which leaves us to find one other who needs our attention (I'm thinking Renata) and one who has a target. The question is...what are the rest of 'em doing and do they need our help before we go?
vote severe delays
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Post by severe delays on Feb 9, 2011 9:27:32 GMT -5
To win, I need to identify a number of players that are still in the game (those that have won and left don't count). So Dr Strangelove, KidV and Dirx, how do you feel about sharing your role name? You first. And what's your wincon?
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Post by zuma on Feb 9, 2011 11:01:49 GMT -5
By my count, Zuma, KidV, Dirx, Strangelove and I all have the potential to leave the game at the end of Day. Now if everyone is telling the truth then Zuma and I had to identify people; Well, I had to identify you and be alive when you reach your wincon. Since I've identified you, now I win when you win. At this point I'll just vote for whoever you are voting for. vote: severe delays[/color]
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Post by bufftabby on Feb 9, 2011 11:36:18 GMT -5
To win, I need to identify a number of players that are still in the game (those that have won and left don't count). This sounds like it could be done easily enough with a team effort.
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Post by septimus on Feb 9, 2011 15:21:12 GMT -5
Dr Strangelove, I am happy to help you lynch Sev ere Delays, but it may be better (for me) to delay that for a Day. Future help will be appreciated; however toMorrow I'll no longer be trying to Lynch Severe. On the other hand, if you are able to move your vote toDay to Severe, I'll respond (quid pro quo) by revealing my identity. I'm curious about the thing going on between Dr Strangelove and Renata. Perhaps they have a combined wincon? AFAIK, there's nothing on between us, but if we do decide to party, you're invited too. (Since the three of us are likely on three different continents, it'll have to be a virtual party, with virtual liquor, etc. )
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 9, 2011 17:43:41 GMT -5
To win, I need to identify a number of players that are still in the game (those that have won and left don't count). So Dr Strangelove, KidV and Dirx, how do you feel about sharing your role name? Absolutely not. No way. To hell with you.
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Post by sinjin on Feb 9, 2011 18:25:53 GMT -5
Hey, guiri, hon, I want to help you with your win con. I just haven't been around much. RL life slugged me in the head this week.
SO what do you need besides XXXX's and OOOOO's? {{{{{guiri}}}}}
Tell me who to vote for and I will. I repeat I do not have an exclusive win con.
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Post by severe delays on Feb 9, 2011 19:35:51 GMT -5
Look, nevermind this mafia nonsense. What am I supposed to buy my mother for her birthday?
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 9, 2011 20:22:57 GMT -5
Bananas. Every likes bananas.
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Post by Dirx on Feb 9, 2011 20:27:33 GMT -5
So please altruists: help Strangelove now. If severe is Lynched toDay, I win! It can be a tied-lynch; lynching archangel as well as severe will be fine for me. I think there may be good reasons to lynch severe anyway (she's almost declared Humbug, disrupted Dirx' win, and is evasive about her wincon) but my main motive now is that lynching severe toDay fulfills my wincon. To be fair, it seems that she disrupted my win so that my win didn't prevent hers. I think. She still hasn't come out and said exactly how that worked. Regarding outing names to help those looking for people: I suggest we do that the other way around. What happens if I name claim, and Klutz wins Today, but someone else needed him around later to fulfill their wincon? If those of you who are looking for people want us to out ourselves, you're probably going to have to share first.
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