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Post by special on Jan 30, 2011 11:32:04 GMT -5
Living players must Bravely run away.
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Post by CatInASuit on Jan 31, 2011 7:38:21 GMT -5
I have a feeling this is going to be a very silly game.
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Jan 31, 2011 7:41:19 GMT -5
I am hoping it will . At least that is what I keep in mind writing the color... What do you all think about the PM-writing-rule? I've always had it in my games because I tend to write in a special way and I know it must be hard for others to make up PMs written with my kind of spelling and language.
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Post by special on Jan 31, 2011 7:49:52 GMT -5
I am hoping it will . At least that is what I keep in mind writing the color... What do you all think about the PM-writing-rule? I've always had it in my games because I tend to write in a special way and I know it must be hard for others to make up PMs written with my kind of spelling and language. I answered the questions. I think the rule is good too. Without the rule, it gives an advantage to players who are good at English and good at copying another's style more than players who are good at Mafia
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Post by CatInASuit on Jan 31, 2011 9:18:03 GMT -5
I very much like the Final Vote rule implemented here, although I hope it doesn't lead to hasty last minute post/votes being thrown in.
As for the PMs, I think it is a good idea. The rule already says that Fake PMs have been given out to those who may need it (see scum and 3rd parties) and they Mods will help write more. This makes me think that some of the Town players will be looking for fake PMs, there is no reason for them not to. It may be bad play, but could be really useful if required.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Feb 1, 2011 2:34:24 GMT -5
What do you all think about the PM-writing-rule? I've always had it in my games because I tend to write in a special way and I know it must be hard for others to make up PMs written with my kind of spelling and language. I'm not really sure why you don't simply supply the fake PMs at the start. Town players have no business messing around with their claim (unless they're trying a really dangerous gambit). Scum can be given some fake claims at the start, to use as needed. I'm a bit concerned that a scum player may be given a tailor made claim to fit what has happened in the game. This looks to be way beyond what a moderator should do.
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Feb 1, 2011 3:48:04 GMT -5
I think this discussion is very interesting!
I'll answer based on what I've done in previous games.
The scum were given 2-3 vanilla claim before the game began and 2-3 power claims. But as time went by they wanted different powers than the ones I had written. So they would tell me exactly what kind of power they wanted - and I would write the PM so that it looked genuine. The claim and all involved in the claim was still left to the player himself.
Once a scum even asked for a 3rd-party-claim. He was caught because the wincon of Town was You (and your team) will accomplish this when you have killed all non-Town elements in the game. So Town figured out that he was lying or had to be killed for being a non-Town.
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Post by CatInASuit on Feb 1, 2011 11:30:58 GMT -5
OTOH it does take away the beauty of being force to construct and write your own roleclaim.
Well, its certainly given Day 1 a topic to get started on other than random voting etc. etc.
What should not happen is that the Scum ask for a generic roleclaim to for the situtation and have one made up. Perhaps it should be made clear they need to specify what kind of fake role they are asking for because atm they could ask for anything and get something really useful.
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Post by Total Ullz on Feb 1, 2011 16:55:07 GMT -5
I think so too. If I use the rule again in a game later, I'll try and explain it better. The idea was simply to avoid people talking for hours about if a PM was written "Ullz-style". Not to give anyone a "safe" claim. And by the way - if any of you want to be spoiled, just PM Ed or me. One of the players have asked for the ultimate silly role-PM and I have no idea if they will use it or not. But yeah, it's Day 1 and they have stuff to talk about. That's on the wiki as an important part of game-design. I was afraid before the game began if we had forgotten to see to that. But I guess mafia never cease to amaze
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Post by CatInASuit on Feb 2, 2011 8:52:14 GMT -5
And by the way - if any of you want to be spoiled, just PM Ed or me. One of the players have asked for the ultimate silly role-PM and I have no idea if they will use it or not. Someone asked to be a dead parrot Oh well, I guess the next question is does BillMc deserve to be lynched for Day 1 claiming vanilla?
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Post by Total Ullz on Feb 2, 2011 9:04:32 GMT -5
As much as I don't read much into the vanilla claim, I think I would wonder about the subbing out.
I'm having problems figuring out what to make of him no liking the false-PM-rule. I know he has never said anything before, but I very seldom voice my opinion on the rules in games I play/have played. So I was surprised he felt that way - but I can't see it saying much about his alignment.
If you don't like the rule - you don't like it. Not even (I think) if it was to you favour one game or not. The disliking is more OoG IMO.
Perhaps I shouldn't have locked the rules-thread. But I really thought that it would be a distraction and a conversation I'd rather have after the game...
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Post by Total Ullz on Feb 2, 2011 9:05:31 GMT -5
Someone asked to be a dead parrot No matter what. That sketch should make for a brilliant color
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Post by CatInASuit on Feb 2, 2011 9:25:18 GMT -5
Feel free to pinch it - also if there is not one Spanish Inquisition piece of colour at End of Day, I will consider this a failed game.
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Post by CatInASuit on Feb 4, 2011 6:45:51 GMT -5
Hmm, wonder how the Day is going to run over the weekend given that it will end at 10am Monday Ulla time when most of the players will be asleep. My guess is that whoever is the vote leader at the end of Friday is likely to be the lynch victim due to the weekend slowdown in posting.
Just a suggestion guys, you might want to shift the End of Day to the evening Ulla time.
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Post by special on Feb 4, 2011 7:35:23 GMT -5
Hmm, wonder how the Day is going to run over the weekend given that it will end at 10am Monday Ulla time when most of the players will be asleep. My guess is that whoever is the vote leader at the end of Friday is likely to be the lynch victim due to the weekend slowdown in posting. Just a suggestion guys, you might want to shift the End of Day to the evening Ulla time. End of Day will fluctuate.
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Post by Total Ullz on Feb 4, 2011 7:42:22 GMT -5
We don't want them to expect anything ;D
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Post by CatInASuit on Feb 4, 2011 8:31:04 GMT -5
End of Day will fluctuate. Which either means there is a role or mechanism specifically designed to shift end of Day Or you two are not the Messiahs, you're very naughty people. ;D PS: Any scotsman roles, if they exist, absolutely have to be saved by aliens.
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Post by Total Ullz on Feb 4, 2011 8:35:11 GMT -5
PS: Any scotsman roles, if they exist, absolutely have to be saved by aliens. Why didn't I think of that??? I could just slap myself with a trout:
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Post by CatInASuit on Feb 4, 2011 8:45:57 GMT -5
I'm sure you will have much better colour and examples than my rambling knowledge can provide.
But then I was reading TVtropes for Monty Python, Life of Brian, Meaning of Life and the Holy Grail.
Tooooo many choices.
Going back to the game, I think bobargh is likely town and just made a mistake as usually happens. But it's Day 1 and so all voting is fairly shaky.
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Post by special on Feb 4, 2011 10:20:03 GMT -5
End of Day will fluctuate. Which either means there is a role or mechanism specifically designed to shift end of Day Or you two are not the Messiahs, you're very naughty people. ;D PS: Any scotsman roles, if they exist, absolutely have to be saved by aliens. hehe We did state in the rules that Night would last from 36 to 60 hours. We did not specify why. How long Night is will determine when the Day ends.
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 7, 2011 12:06:32 GMT -5
So, as I PM'd Ulla, I made a conscious effort in the earlier going to be slightly hinky. I wanted to draw a vote or two so as to appear a lynch target instead of a NK target. I stopped screwing around immediately after the overreaction to my crazypunker vote. So I could use a reality check. In the eyes of the observer, was I really that scummy? I prefer to believe that this was horrible Town play, with possibly some good Scum play. But I'm biased, of course.
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 7, 2011 12:13:07 GMT -5
Also, Mafia is a game of many many skills. Faking a role PM is one of those skills. Providing pre-faked PMs to players is fine, of course, and sometimes required for game balance.
I strongly believe that having game referees actively intervening on one player/sides behalf in the middle of the game is wrong, though. Because you cannot predict exactly what sort of PM is going to be requested or when, you cannot anticipate what effect your help is going to have on game balance.
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Post by Total Ullz on Feb 7, 2011 17:55:52 GMT -5
I see where you are coming from - and I don't dismiss the point of view. However when that is said I hate the fact that I cannot fake a proper PM. I know I could in Danish and I know I fail in English.
So my point of view is that when I'm the mod it's almost impossible for others to fake a role-PM. The very same way I have failed when ever I have tried.
Even though I try very hard to write as the rest of you - small things slip into my writing.
I'll give you an example. In the Halloween Game I was Scum and Paulwhoisaghost was one of my scum-buddies. He pointed out at some point in the Scum thread that I was writing "og" in stead of "of". This seems funny to most of you guys because "Og" is something very different from "of" in your eyes.
However "og" is the Danish word for "and" and most likely one of the words I write the most and therefore my fingers just seems to slip up on me when I type in hast or tired.
So a role-PM from "me" faked by Paulwhoisaghost who is also a facebook-friend and therefore familiar with my kind of mis-spelling might have a "og" in there.
But it seems unfair to people I only know in mafia (IMO) because it would not be a question of copying my "style" but more a contest of how knows my mis-spelling better than others.
To me the difference is the matter of the language...
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 7, 2011 18:06:23 GMT -5
I see where you are coming from - and I don't dismiss the point of view. However when that is said I hate the fact that I cannot fake a proper PM. I know I could in Danish and I know I fail in English. So my point of view is that when I'm the mod it's almost impossible for others to fake a role-PM. The very same way I have failed when ever I have tried. Even though I try very hard to write as the rest of you - small things slip into my writing. I'll give you an example. In the Halloween Game I was Scum and Paulwhoisaghost was one of my scum-buddies. He pointed out at some point in the Scum thread that I was writing "og" in stead of "of". This seems funny to most of you guys because "Og" is something very different from "of" in your eyes. However "og" is the Danish word for "and" and most likely one of the words I write the most and therefore my fingers just seems to slip up on me when I type in hast or tired. So a role-PM from "me" faked by Paulwhoisaghost who is also a facebook-friend and therefore familiar with my kind of mis-spelling might have a "og" in there. But it seems unfair to people I only know in mafia (IMO) because it would not be a question of copying my "style" but more a contest of how knows my mis-spelling better than others. To me the difference is the matter of the language... I hear what you're saying, but you can accomplish what you're intending with role PMs supplied before the game starts. In my opinion anyway, and how could a guy with an ass like mine be wrong?
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Post by special on Feb 7, 2011 18:07:51 GMT -5
I agree. And as long as the person requesting the PM is required to come up with the information for the PM, all Ulla is adding is the color.
It's similar to a game with plain role PMs or games without color, but this way, the color can still be included.
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 7, 2011 18:13:08 GMT -5
Right, but I believe the color should be supplied before the game starts.
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Post by Total Ullz on Feb 7, 2011 18:13:39 GMT -5
In my opinion anyway, and how could a guy with an botty* like mine be wrong? Even people with a sexy botty can be mistaken, you know And I forgot to add that I didn't think you were mistaken in the vote and I really have no idea why to got lynched. I'm kind of sad about it - because even though we don't think alike, I very much like the way you think and play
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Post by Total Ullz on Feb 7, 2011 18:17:57 GMT -5
Right, but I believe the color should be supplied before the game starts. Yeah, I might try and do that next game. However knowing me it would probably end with me writing them 20 cover-roles just in case. But if players feel better that way I'd be willing to give it a go. The important issue for me is that we play the game and don't end up picking apart every claim to find a mis-spelling or a capitalized name. I really think it's tiresome when the game turns into people trying to out-clever the mods and not play with the players. But I guess we agree on that
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Post by Total Ullz on Feb 7, 2011 18:23:55 GMT -5
What I do find strange and intriguing is that I've had at least two games on Giraffe with this rule and no one objected.
So it really blew me by surprise when you spoke against it. Because I never had thought it could be viewed this way.
As Ed said - I only offered to provide color. Players have to think up the claim and have to figure out how to use it. I wouldn't dream of adding anything or suggesting claims. No way. Ever.
I think a mod should set up the game and run it - not play or interfere.
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Post by Total Ullz on Feb 7, 2011 18:24:48 GMT -5
Get me started - and I seem to go on and on. Will step down from my soapbox for a while
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