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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jan 31, 2011 19:32:23 GMT -5
Before it confuses anyone who hasn't played with me before, people are likely to refer to me as 'Cookies' even though that particular portion of my usual nomenclature seems to have been carried way African swallows.
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timmy
Mome Rath
In the frozen land of Nador they were forced to eat Robin's minstrels. And there was much rejoicing
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Post by timmy on Jan 31, 2011 20:06:05 GMT -5
I thought African swallows were non-migratory?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Jan 31, 2011 20:12:58 GMT -5
That would be the coconut-carrying variety. The cookie-carrying variety are globally wandering pests.
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Post by naturallylazy on Jan 31, 2011 20:55:55 GMT -5
Nat's here, has role PM in hand. Ready to conquer~ Everybody break a leg - town - figuratively, mafia - literally. =) If you keep calling yourself "Nat" I'm going to call you Natlaw, after a player who was also called Nat. I foresee absolutely no problems with that. Yup, absolutely nothing could go wrong with that. :slaps Mahaloth with a trout: Whooooops. I go by Nat back on my home boards, so I apologize for not taking into account that there might already be a Nat on here. In which case, if you choose to call me by all thirteen letters of my username, that is quite alright. ((I've had this problem before, so I don't know why I don't just automatically check)) Anyway, I suppose I'll throw my two cents into the ring about Role PMs. Where I'm from, you never ever share your role PMs word-for-word. It's considered game breaking, since most people cannot fake a role PM accurately(The only one you'd want to really fake would be the vanilla town one anyway, since all roles are revealed well before game start). That said, I don't see any problem with asking for help from the GMs in faking a Role PM if you don't know the other roles in the game. I know that I would have to ask for help if I were to need to attempt faking a Rolecard, simply due to my overall careless nature.
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timmy
Mome Rath
In the frozen land of Nador they were forced to eat Robin's minstrels. And there was much rejoicing
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Post by timmy on Jan 31, 2011 21:28:35 GMT -5
Whooooops. I go by Nat back on my home boards, so I apologize for not taking into account that there might already be a Nat on here. In which case, if you choose to call me by all thirteen letters of my username, that is quite alright. ((I've had this problem before, so I don't know why I don't just automatically check)) Anyway, I suppose I'll throw my two cents into the ring about Role PMs. Where I'm from, you never ever share your role PMs word-for-word. It's considered game breaking, since most people cannot fake a role PM accurately(The only one you'd want to really fake would be the vanilla town one anyway, since all roles are revealed well before game start). That said, I don't see any problem with asking for help from the GMs in faking a Role PM if you don't know the other roles in the game. I know that I would have to ask for help if I were to need to attempt faking a Rolecard, simply due to my overall careless nature. Hey, no worries. I'm sure we'll find a suitable nickname for you [coff::paging peeker::coff]. I'm determined to ignore any argument focused around PMs in this game.
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Post by Captain Pinkies on Jan 31, 2011 23:10:46 GMT -5
<== passes a round of [hiccup] vanilla explosion
Ingredients to use: 1 can Vanilla Cola 5 cubes Ice 4 shots Vanilla Vodka
Directions: This is a wonderful drink if you do not want to taste the alcohol. Use both Vanilla Coke and Vanilla Vodka. Pour into a glass, serve with ice, and stir.
ohh yeah I got my PM
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Post by Captain Pinkies on Jan 31, 2011 23:21:16 GMT -5
bill, bill, bill why? ?? WHY? must you shrink the town pool? If you are truly a vanilla it is your job to hide town power roles.... And from what I read, you did this other games... So this isn't someting new for you.... before getting the get rope... any insights you wish to provide? ??
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Trepa Mayfield
FGM
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Post by Trepa Mayfield on Feb 1, 2011 1:09:24 GMT -5
If you keep calling yourself "Nat" I'm going to call you Natlaw, after a player who was also called Nat. I foresee absolutely no problems with that. Yup, absolutely nothing could go wrong with that. :slaps Mahaloth with a trout: Whooooops. I go by Nat back on my home boards, so I apologize for not taking into account that there might already be a Nat on here. In which case, if you choose to call me by all thirteen letters of my username, that is quite alright. ((I've had this problem before, so I don't know why I don't just automatically check)) Heh, just teasing, NatLaz.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 1, 2011 1:14:20 GMT -5
Maybe Bill is trying to be the 'do as I say, not as I do' sacrificial early unprompted vanilla townie claim to end all early unprompted vanilla townie claims. [/sarcasm]
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 1, 2011 2:29:15 GMT -5
Apologies for the fluff as I know the game is already underway and is serious business (tm), but is anyone else at all curious about the fang-sporting, red-eyed bunny that is apparently is a smiley from a web forum devoted to justice for the victims of crimes with not one, but two sub-forums dedicated to JonBenet Ramsey?
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 1, 2011 2:42:44 GMT -5
I didn't read Bills post as a claim. I read it as a bit of silly WIFOM.
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Post by Romanic on Feb 1, 2011 3:14:17 GMT -5
got my pm. I AM SPARTACUS. vote story<bleached> Am I right to assume this is a joke? I don't see storyteller in the player list but he might be one of the players that I don't know about.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 1, 2011 3:27:51 GMT -5
I didn't read Bills post as a claim. I read it as a bit of silly WIFOM. Wouldn't they be one and the same at this point?
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Post by Romanic on Feb 1, 2011 3:31:39 GMT -5
For those mentioning Idle I don't remember him claiming unprovoked like Pleonast has done the past several games. I remember Idle in C3 where he wanted to get lynched as scotsman to confirm his info, in ED2 he had an investigation result and felt exposed. Idle claimed vanilla on day 1, back to back, in International Mafia (on the Dope) and DR Seuss (on Giraffe), both times unprovoked. However I guess it could be argued that he had incentive to claim in International Mafia, for being one of the starting travelers.
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 1, 2011 3:43:50 GMT -5
Am I right to assume this is a joke? Yup. Wouldn't they be one and the same at this point? Um, no? I mean, he could have actually been trying to convince everybody that he's vanilla, but it read to me more like he was goofing off. Others mileage may vary, I suppose.
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Total Ullz
Administrator
You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
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Post by Total Ullz on Feb 1, 2011 4:12:47 GMT -5
Apologies for the fluff as I know the game is already underway and is serious business (tm), but is anyone else at all curious about the fang-sporting, red-eyed bunny that is apparently is a smiley from a web forum devoted to justice for the victims of crimes with not one, but two sub-forums dedicated to JonBenet Ramsey? I didn't notice that. I just googled Monty Python-smileys and found that one along with some other really cool once I am saving for later
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 1, 2011 4:16:46 GMT -5
Ah. I was reading your statement with less emphasis on 'silly' and more emphasis on 'WIFOM' but I see that is not apparently what you meant. If that's the case, I'm not sure why you referred to it as WIFOM at all then.
As far as I'm concerned he's either joking and intending nothing but general metagame commentary, or he's claiming. Time will tell.
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Post by BillMc on Feb 1, 2011 5:24:24 GMT -5
<font style="font-size: 12px;">Question for BillMc: Bill, I never played with KidVermicious before, but you played in Ullz Jane Austen and Dark Knight games on Giraffe, which also had fake PM's available. I can't remember any discussion or objection to it in either of those games but may be mistaken. Have you always disliked the practice or can you point to any game where it created an imbalance? I have grown to think of this as a feature of Ullz games and I am noting your objection in the confirmation thread. I think the difference is between having them already pre-formed, "out there," as it were, versus offering to make or help make them on the fly. I don't have any reason to object to any of the rules, and although I find it wearying and counter-productive I have given up with identifying Day One claims as anything other than a null tell. Also, if we catch someone in a lie of commission (rather than a lie of omission), we should probably consider lynching them sooner rather than later. I am completely kidnapping the Final Vote concept for the game I'm trying to balance right now. I think the difference is between having a set of pre-written fake PM's which you can tailor to your need, and having one written on demand to get your neck out of the noose. "Hey mods - looks like I'm going to swing -- i need a killer pm that says I'm totally invaluable to the town, that is more than believable and doesn't contradict any of your rules that you have publically posted orclarifications you may have provided to other players via PM or contradicts anything you have previously said."I've twice been caught out by something I've written in my fake pm that depending on how you squint at it, wasn't quite consistent with the published rules, or consistent with information that the mod had provided other players. So if the mods provide what are essentially water tight alibi pm's - then they are being unfair.
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Post by BillMc on Feb 1, 2011 5:43:13 GMT -5
bill, bill, bill why? ?? WHY? must you shrink the town pool? If you are truly a vanilla it is your job to hide town power roles.... And from what I read, you did this other games... So this isn't someting new for you.... before getting the get rope... any insights you wish to provide? ?? "must you shrink the town pool" - so that implies you believe that I am town. "your job is to hide town power roles" - no, the job of town is to lynch scum. relying on power roles is a weak strategy "this isn't something new for you" - really? "before getting the rope" - so here we have the contradiction - if you believe I am town, that I am vanilla, then by lynching me an confirming that i am vanilla, you have actually shrunk the pool. To throw some spam, spam, spam out there, and a great big shrubbery, instead of the usual wifom: My life expectancy in the last 6 or 7 games has been, shall we say, short. If my crystal coconut is working, then my life expectancy is this game is probably less than the wing span of an african swallow. The scum will, of course, know whether I am scum or not, but will not know whether I am pfk, 3rd party, town power or vanilla. So if there is a town watcher, and they so decide to watch by back, so to speak, then if the scummy scum take me out, then it will likely be a 1 for 1 trade. If the scum have a watcher, then of course, they may play the same game. Whether watchers see each other is at the whim of the mods, but they would see any cop or doc that wandered in my general direction. So that would be a bad move by the town. If I am scum or third party or pfk, of course, such wifom makes it risky for an investigation for exactly the same reasons. And if I am scum, well it certainly would time for something completely different.
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 1, 2011 5:47:11 GMT -5
EXACTLY what I was trying to say, Bill.
I've got no beef with fake role PMs provided before the game starts. But producing/editing a fake PM is a skill, just like every other aspect of this game. Mod interference constitutes an unfair advantage.
I don't see the point in arguing this any further. It's all water under the bridge at this point, and if we're to discuss it further it should be after the game.
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Post by harmless little bunny on Feb 1, 2011 5:55:27 GMT -5
I'm here. Good to see everyone.
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on Feb 1, 2011 6:35:19 GMT -5
Just to see how far the moderators will go with writing a fake PM, I asked for one.
I gave a name (Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, inspired by Red Skeezix's avatar) and role (vigilante) and I got an entire role PM so it's not just editing something scum would have written.
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on Feb 1, 2011 6:37:12 GMT -5
NETA: I got the PM in about half a day or so. Whooooops. I go by Nat back on my home boards, so I apologize for not taking into account that there might already be a Nat on here. In which case, if you choose to call me by all thirteen letters of my username, that is quite alright. ((I've had this problem before, so I don't know why I don't just automatically check)) I would suggest to call you "Lazy" and me "Nat" but I have a suspicion you would prefer something else
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on Feb 1, 2011 6:58:22 GMT -5
Hey, coming out of the gate with guns-a-blazin'...nice! I choose not to comment on whether or not I 'approve' of the mods' rules. They are the rules and if I am going to play this game, I must follow them. I choose to remain in the game under those rules, and that's all I will say on the matter. If you would like to find that Scummy, you are by all means entitled to do so. That's a nice twist but I didn't say that you 'just following the rules' is scummy. My thought was that since you had a recent experience where the quality of a fake PM made a difference, you would have more to say about it. For what it's worth, I'm treating the issue more as a discussion starter for this game than some rule dispute that is tangential to the game proper. In short the quality of the PM is a null tell this game and a definite plus for scum. So we need to be aware of that and use other things (claim timing, counter claims) to validate a claim. I think I like the rule (it's the first time I play with it) but if KidV won't play for the win because of it then it's better to ask for a sub now. I don't think the rules were posted when the sign ups were so I don't blame KidV in anyway (just to be clear).
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Post by BillMc on Feb 1, 2011 7:10:03 GMT -5
Just to see how far the moderators will go with writing a fake PM, I asked for one. I gave a name (Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, inspired by Red Skeezix's avatar) and role (vigilante) and I got an entire role PM so it's not just editing something scum would have written. which illustrates that there is no player in the game call that - if there is a player called that, then the mods have lied to you - so you could do the same thing with roles, e.g. as for "the cop" etc
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Post by Renata on Feb 1, 2011 8:10:13 GMT -5
I think the difference is between having them already pre-formed, "out there," as it were, versus offering to make or help make them on the fly. I don't have any reason to object to any of the rules, and although I find it wearying and counter-productive I have given up with identifying Day One claims as anything other than a null tell. Also, if we catch someone in a lie of commission (rather than a lie of omission), we should probably consider lynching them sooner rather than later. I am completely kidnapping the Final Vote concept for the game I'm trying to balance right now. I think the difference is between having a set of pre-written fake PM's which you can tailor to your need, and having one written on demand to get your neck out of the noose. "Hey mods - looks like I'm going to swing -- i need a killer pm that says I'm totally invaluable to the town, that is more than believable and doesn't contradict any of your rules that you have publically posted orclarifications you may have provided to other players via PM or contradicts anything you have previously said."I've twice been caught out by something I've written in my fake pm that depending on how you squint at it, wasn't quite consistent with the published rules, or consistent with information that the mod had provided other players. So if the mods provide what are essentially water tight alibi pm's - then they are being unfair. That's not the way it works, though. The PM is written to the requested parameters, the sole "safe" information being that you are guaranteed an unused role name. (You already have a few of those anyway, though.) Having requested several in Ulla's last game which were later discarded as never going to work, I feel it is completely safe to say that she makes no editorial judgment on whether or not the requested role PM is a good one. She just bypasses issues with grammar/format and authorial voice. Example: Scum: Hey Ulla, we're considering a one-shot day vig fake claim. Can you write one up for us? Ulla produces said PM. Scum: Well that looks lovely, but maybe we shouldn't be claiming vig when we can't back it up. (And Ulla thinks, but has never said -- good thing, given you'd also be the only day power claim in the game if you'd used that, haha.) See what I'm saying? I've played as scum under these rules before and I really think it's all right, even a good thing for the game. And I'm really confused why you bring this up now, when you did not before. What's changed? (And no, you can't do the same thing with roles. She will happily write you up a duplicate of a town role if that's what you request. No guarantees for safety, except for role name.)
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Post by Renata on Feb 1, 2011 8:16:41 GMT -5
It's not even an unalloyed plus for scum. How often has this group of players lynched a townie on a typo or some such? Once every several games or so? How often does a townie get suspicion over such a thing, such that they could eventually might been lynched if the game had lasted to that point, and such that the discussion of the issue definitely attracts attention away from the actual scum for a Day or two? About every other game, right? It won't happen in this one.
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 1, 2011 9:15:02 GMT -5
Heh, just teasing, NatLaz. i was thinking more along the lines of lyla. but whatever.
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 1, 2011 9:38:39 GMT -5
Well, no wonder Renata likes them. She uses them when she plays scum.
That's very interesting.
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Romola
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One of them saw two words of the joke and spent several weeks in hospital.
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Post by Romola on Feb 1, 2011 9:41:02 GMT -5
I think the difference is between having them already pre-formed, "out there," as it were, versus offering to make or help make them on the fly. I don't have any reason to object to any of the rules, and although I find it wearying and counter-productive I have given up with identifying Day One claims as anything other than a null tell. Also, if we catch someone in a lie of commission (rather than a lie of omission), we should probably consider lynching them sooner rather than later. I am completely kidnapping the Final Vote concept for the game I'm trying to balance right now. I think the difference is between having a set of pre-written fake PM's which you can tailor to your need, and having one written on demand to get your neck out of the noose. "Hey mods - looks like I'm going to swing -- i need a killer pm that says I'm totally invaluable to the town, that is more than believable and doesn't contradict any of your rules that you have publically posted orclarifications you may have provided to other players via PM or contradicts anything you have previously said."I've twice been caught out by something I've written in my fake pm that depending on how you squint at it, wasn't quite consistent with the published rules, or consistent with information that the mod had provided other players. So if the mods provide what are essentially water tight alibi pm's - then they are being unfair. But surely, that makes the fake PM's game balancing rather than otherwise? What really does puzzle me is why I don't remember you saying anything about your objections in Ullz Jane Austen and Batman games on the Giraffe? The same arrangement stood in those games, and an on-the-cuff pm was written for Ed's false claim late on. Yet, i heard not a peep of objection and you were in those games. why is it an issue now when it wasn't then?
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