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Post by BobArrgh on Feb 2, 2011 10:43:12 GMT -5
NETA: Holy cow! ... I have absolutely no idea how that happened with the font. For reference, I quoted sinjin's #146.
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 2, 2011 10:53:55 GMT -5
I said:
There's no retaining anything here, and there's no smudge. If you really thought this was an attempt at subtlety, you need to work on your reading comprehension. This was me pointing out that you claimed to have found the rule useful in a previous game as scum (and the implications for your defense of that rule here are obvious). If you didn't say that, exactly what did you say, please?
And it IS a point against you, all your handwaving to the contrary. I can't tell if you're scum defending yourself poorly, or just an insecure player trying to win an argument. I will point out, if you are town, that this game is not about winning arguments. It's about finding scum. Whatever your alignment, the misdirection and mischaracterization you are engaging in with respect to me is anti-Town.
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Post by Renata on Feb 2, 2011 11:00:44 GMT -5
You didn't answer my question about the redirection.
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Post by Red Skeezix on Feb 2, 2011 11:05:04 GMT -5
oh frak this - do what you you like. lynch me, end the day early, dont care. I hate these kind of posts and following one that asks to be subbed out. It's a game, you got a couple early votes for reasons you don't like, and now you want to whine about it and ask to be removed? 1. That's lame and I didn't think it was like you. 2. I think it could be a scum tactic to convince us that you are town. I mean, a scum wouldn't ask to be removed or tell us to lynch him. Or would they. It's WIFOM I know, but it doesn't seem like you to do this. It's enough for me to put my early vote on you, too. Vote BillPlenty of time to move my vote if a better case arrives. This is such a weak vote. The first reason isn't even a reason. The second reason is an explanation of why what bill has done is a pretty null tell. Plus it's infused with meta (Bill, this isn't like you) Smells like scum getting on a bandwagon. He even left himself a trap door in case the bandwagon turns sour. Vote Mahaloth
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 2, 2011 11:06:44 GMT -5
You didn't answer my question about the redirection. You're right. I didn't, sorry. I lost track of who was talking to who, and thought there had been an exchange between you and Bob.
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 2, 2011 11:08:36 GMT -5
I hate these kind of posts and following one that asks to be subbed out. It's a game, you got a couple early votes for reasons you don't like, and now you want to whine about it and ask to be removed? 1. That's lame and I didn't think it was like you. 2. I think it could be a scum tactic to convince us that you are town. I mean, a scum wouldn't ask to be removed or tell us to lynch him. Or would they. It's WIFOM I know, but it doesn't seem like you to do this. It's enough for me to put my early vote on you, too. Vote BillPlenty of time to move my vote if a better case arrives. This is such a weak vote. The first reason isn't even a reason. The second reason is an explanation of why what bill has done is a pretty null tell. Plus it's infused with meta (Bill, this isn't like you) Smells like scum getting on a bandwagon. He even left himself a trap door in case the bandwagon turns sour. Vote Mahaloth[/bleached]Gonna agree with Skeezix, here, this is a bad vote.
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Post by Renata on Feb 2, 2011 11:20:57 GMT -5
I agree also.
unvote[/color] vote: Mahaloth[/color]
in that a bad new reason for hopping on a bandwagon is perhaps scummier than just jumping on a bad old reason.
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Post by Captain Pinkies on Feb 2, 2011 12:01:41 GMT -5
oh frak this - do what you you like. lynch me, end the day early, dont care. Someone up above indicated that you had done this same or a similar thing in several games recently. Was that person lying? If so, why aren't you voting them? No - that person was referring to Idle --- not me. But since you are quite happy to propagate the lie, then do as you wish. And romola, as I said previously, I have previously stated, and previously objected in games by other mods to having pm's generated on demand to get folks necks out the noose. A discussion of the rules would be better kept to the rules thread, but since the mods locked that, it is continued here. Since it appears to be vote worthy to object to a rule, then I'll go one further than KidV and resign from the game. Sub me out pleaseWhat? WHAT? Your kidding right? You are the one who started the line of questions, becuase you claim vanilla town out of the gate... You knew that your post would cause a stir.. And now that people are voting for you, because you addressed some things in my post back to you but not others, you want to through in the towel? All I can say is WOW....
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Post by sinjin on Feb 2, 2011 12:15:15 GMT -5
The way I read Bill's post, it is not an absolute given that the Scum Watcher (if there is one) would be able to see the Town Watcher (if there is one), since that is at the discretion of the mods. Yes, I agree that if the Doc protects him or if the Cop investigates him, then a Scum Watcher would see those visits. However, I thought Bill was talking about having the Town Watcher (and not the Cop or Doc) watch him to see who comes near him. If the Town Watcher sees anyone kill Bill, then that could be the subject of a lynching the next Day, hence the one-for-one. I just didn't see it as a specifically anti-Town statement. I read the whole section as a steaming pile of wifom since we don't know if scum have a watcher or have to specify a particular killer, YMMV. Further if Bill is scum and scum do have a watcher then the town watcher would potentially be toast too. FTR I have never played a game where town/scum watchers were invisible to each other. Is this common? Now would you like to tell us what you liked about my post?
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Post by Renata on Feb 2, 2011 12:29:09 GMT -5
I think a day one vanilla claim has interesting implications for what scum or town powers would do. It's WIFOM, but it's not meaningless WIFOM, if that makes sense. There are definite risk/reward calculations that you can do, on both sides.
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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 2, 2011 13:03:11 GMT -5
Actually, I guess Red makes a good point.
unvote Bill
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Natlaw
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Natlaw is a Modron short and stout.
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Post by Natlaw on Feb 2, 2011 13:41:36 GMT -5
The unprovoked claims Day One annoy me more than they rationally should. It's pure WIFOM so a null tell - could be either town telling the truth or town/scum lying. So for town that doesn't help either way determining the alignment of the claiming player. I think the annoying comes from the fact that: -the WIFOM if is the player town or scum is made explicit (from a "don't ask don't tell" we're all town here) -as far as I know all these unprovoked claims have been truthful so far, which keeps me thinking that statistically the odds rise that this time it must be a scum doing it (I don't think that is sound math since the games/claims aren't connected but it still feels that way) -and if it is a scum claiming it feels like taunting town. It's not a defensive move of "Really guys don't lynch me! I'm town" but a "Hai guys nice game! I'm vanilla town don't worry about me! (smothered evil laugh)" -Town/Truthfull: shrinks power pool (not really since it's WIFOM but as said history supports it and town would prefer not to lie but then again the how claimed reason for the claim is that it could be a lie) -Town/Lying: gives double WIFOM when the true claim comes out (possible in a close-to-Dusk lynch situation where time is short, the lying could be used as a reason to keep a vote/not remove it) -Scum/Lying: let's scum freely declare they are town (and repeat a lie long enough...) But rationally it not worth a vote but it does want me to give out a friendly slap on the shoulder to the claimer (friendly Ed 3.0 style ).
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Post by Romanic on Feb 2, 2011 15:31:28 GMT -5
vote BillI don't like the claim and I don't like the reasoning that follows. There isn't much to go on day one, but this pings me the most so far. Why don't you like Bill's claim? vote: crazy little rabbitFor piling on someone who already has votes, and not saying why ("I don't like it", is not enough).
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Post by Romanic on Feb 2, 2011 15:32:14 GMT -5
vote: crazy little rabbit
I forgot the color.
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Post by Romanic on Feb 2, 2011 15:33:19 GMT -5
vote: crazy little rabbit
Er wtf, I don't know why it didn't work the first 2 times. Let's try again.
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Post by Romanic on Feb 2, 2011 15:38:33 GMT -5
Gah, it's not "crazy", it's "harmless".
unvote
vote: harmless little rabbit
Hopefully I got it right this time. At least this is racking my post count, so I'll look more active.
lol
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Post by Renata on Feb 2, 2011 15:39:53 GMT -5
Haha.
What do you think of Mahaloth's vote, romanic? And subsequent unvote, for that matter.
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Post by harmless little bunny on Feb 2, 2011 15:41:53 GMT -5
Why don't you like Bill's claim? vote: crazy little rabbitFor piling on someone who already has votes, and not saying why ("I don't like it", is not enough). It's frustrating when people claim vanilla out of the gate. IMO it doesn't mean anything because nobody knows anything about anybody. I think it's a distraction because it's easy for people to just talk about the claim and nothing else until that player is lynched/confirmed. I don't really see any way that it benefits town.
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Post by harmless little bunny on Feb 2, 2011 15:54:00 GMT -5
Haha. What do you think of Mahaloth's vote, romanic? And subsequent unvote, for that matter. This wasn't directed at me, but I want to comment. Last game Malhaloth also jumped on a bandwagon after me at the beginning of the game. He followed me in posts and even claimed to have cross-posted with me until his name was associated with mine in every other player's eyes. When he died and came up scum several players voted me saying that they didn't like how we seemed to be doing the same things. The vote on Bill feels like last game when he was scum. I don't like his reasoning for voting Bill in this game because the reasons he gave had nothing to do with Bill being scum. He just doesn't like that Bill wanted to be subbed. He definitely feels more like scum to me than Bill does at this point. unvote Billvote Malhaloth
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Post by harmless little bunny on Feb 2, 2011 15:55:19 GMT -5
for the record I do know that he unvoted bill, but that doesn't change that his reasoning was terrible (in my opinion) when he did vote bill.
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Post by Romanic on Feb 2, 2011 16:13:24 GMT -5
Haha. What do you think of Mahaloth's vote, romanic? And subsequent unvote, for that matter. I think it was a bad vote (piling on an easy target, with bad reasons) and that makes him an interesting candidate to lynch. The unvote may either interpreted as backing down or seeing the light. What do you think of harmless little bunny's vote?
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Post by Renata on Feb 2, 2011 16:25:42 GMT -5
Same as you; I voted her prior to switching to Mahaloth.
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Post by Romanic on Feb 2, 2011 16:37:01 GMT -5
It's frustrating when people claim vanilla out of the gate. IMO it doesn't mean anything because nobody knows anything about anybody. I think it's a distraction because it's easy for people to just talk about the claim and nothing else until that player is lynched/confirmed. I don't really see any way that it benefits town. I think most of us agree that a vanilla claim on day one doesn't help much, but I don't agree that it's a good reason to vote for someone. For the record, I don't consider your reason to be good, you're only restating what has already been said. It shows how little you worked to find this vote. Scums typically like easy votes when their reasons won't be questioned. And I don't know yet what to think about your new vote on Mahaloth, but you sure like to follow the trends do you? ;D Last game Malhaloth also jumped on a bandwagon after me at the beginning of the game. He followed me in posts and even claimed to have cross-posted with me until his name was associated with mine in every other player's eyes. When he died and came up scum several players voted me saying that they didn't like how we seemed to be doing the same things. The vote on Bill feels like last game when he was scum. Which game is that? Have we played together before, on the Dope or Giraffe? There's a lot of name changes around here.
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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 2, 2011 18:44:08 GMT -5
The unvote may either interpreted as backing down or seeing the light. It was a weak vote and Red was right about it being a null tell. I am a bit surprised and even suspicious at getting a couple quick votes because of it, but I removed the vote because I wanted to. I think the game that has been referenced where I was scum was Castle of Crossed Destiny, the last one here. I guess I simulposted or something. I left the room and some time had passed between the simulposts or some such. I died early in that one, so it's been awhile. On Idle, I've played in: Halloween 2010(Won as weak cop) Crossed Destiny (Lost as scum) I think that is it here. I've played and modded the rest over on the Dope.
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Post by Paranoia on Feb 2, 2011 21:53:18 GMT -5
Here's my problem here with the Bill vote at the moment. It's a day one "OMG they claimed nilla' lynch, which didn't work last game. It is fueled by (apparent) misrepresentation, and I wouldn't expect Bill to have lied about protesting that rule in games past - such a fact is easy to check. Furthermore, proclaiming him to be "me too"ing in regards to objecting to the instantaneous role pm bit is also silly considering there is past precedence of the objecting of said role pm crafting. Regarding the "I am vanilla town." bit... it was one of the first few posts of the game, and is essentially a null tell. Anyone and everyone could claim 'nilla town. Speaking of someone taking that silly, silly point as a scum tell in of itself. Hey ... I'm bicomputeracious ... I use Windows and Linux! Romola's vote on Bill does seem a little strange this early in the game. It may say more about her than him. And here we have a classic example of the drive by smudge. Why is it strange this early in the game? I'm suspicious of Bill's claim myself. As I said before, I hate this kind of thing and had to restrain myself from voting for Bill in my first post. But I decided to let him come in and explain, which he has and I gotta tell ya I'm still not happy. No it doesn't. It means that if you are a town vanilla you're playing a more for yourself than the team. If that's the way you feel you should play in strictly vanilla mafia games. Someone up above indicated that you had done this same or a similar thing in several games recently. Was that person lying? If so, why aren't you voting them? No one but you knows if you are vanilla town at this point. And given the possibility of a scum Godfather town won't know until you're dead. So what? So what? If you are not scum they knew nothing about you before and they still know nothing. How does this help town again? Let me get this straight: your plan is that a town watcher should watch you to take out a scum killer (if there is one specified) or catch a scum watcher (if there is one), but maybe that would be a bad move.......so maybe town should just ignore you, not watch, not protect, not detect and let scum kill you? Is that really your plan to help town and stay in the game longer? Yeah scum claiming vanilla town is completely different. Especially Godfather type scum, never happens. The heck with it [collor=Blue]Vote BillMc[/collor][collor=Orange]FoS bobarrgh[/collor]First off, Sinjin, I don't even read that as a smudge - it wasn't really taking a post out of context or trying to put it in a certain point of light to make it look scummy - a smudge is something more like KidV implying that Renata's post about liking instantaneous fake pms means that she is scum herself - ignoring the context of having to use such services in the past. Second off, "You don't like his reply." And then you nitpick without saying exactly what's wrong with it. And then you go back to voting him for 'claiming nilla town, because scum would do it! OMG SCUM WOULD DO IT GUYS WE SHOULD LYNCH HIM. Yeah - scum would do it. so would town - as has been proven. Point blank, it's a null tell. Lynching someone over simply claiming 'nilla town is silly. Also - you ignore his statement about dying early a lot and then act like you never even saw it the moment he requests that he has some sort of protection to deter scum. You even say letting the scum hit him, IF he is town would be good for the town!Just. What. Vote: SanjinI don't like the cut of your jib, or the angry rhetoric. Plus any town that relies on PRs to do all the heavy lifting is a sad town indeed, especially when PRs drop like flies.
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Post by Paranoia on Feb 2, 2011 21:54:34 GMT -5
Also - Fos on Maha.
I remember him pulling a similar stunt last game, but I'll have to go reread that to know if the situations are really comparable.
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Post by Paranoia on Feb 2, 2011 21:55:15 GMT -5
Oh and PM confirmed.
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Post by Paranoia on Feb 2, 2011 22:06:48 GMT -5
Also, before anyone asks on my nitpicking comment, I read it more as him calling theory disputes and Bill's survival record "scummy" rather than anything else, except where the bit he suggest there be no watcher on Bill so the scum can kill him peacefully.
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Post by Paranoia on Feb 2, 2011 22:11:15 GMT -5
ALSO Nat (as in NatLazy) WHERE, OH WHERE ART THOU.
I would really, sincerely, and kindly like your thoughts, pretty please.~
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Post by Paranoia on Feb 2, 2011 22:21:17 GMT -5
One last Also.
YOU TOO TEXCAT. GEEEEEEEEEEET IIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNN HEEEEEEEEERE ALLLLLLLLLLLL OFFFFFFFFFFFF YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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