Trepa Mayfield
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Post by Trepa Mayfield on Feb 13, 2011 15:46:34 GMT -5
Ayyiyiyiyi. It feels like every single post is out of context. You do realize, I hope, that a good half of the arguments today are over the tiniest minutiae that probably aren't either scum-inspired or town-inspired, but simply created out of a vacuum of thought.
Alright. I said, earlier, that Cookies was arguing like a townie, and she still strikes me as such. So I'm going to
Vote: Vote Mahaloth
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Post by special on Feb 13, 2011 15:50:30 GMT -5
Vote Countwith approximately 0 days, 11 hours and 9 minutes until DayEndPlayer (# of votes) (peak number of votes) voters [post in which vote was cast, post in which vote was removed] ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCoconuts (4)(4 178) CatInASuit [41], texcat [128], bobargh [151], Mahaloth [178] Mahaloth (4)(4 180) harmless little bunny [3], peeker [163], Suburban Plankton [167], pedescribe [180] pedescribe (2)(2 179) Natlaw [169], Merestil Haye [179] Sister Coyote (1)(1 20) romanic [20] Bobarrgh (1)(1 97) Sister Coyote [97] Suburban Plankton (1)(1 121) Renata [121] texcat (1)(1 131) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCoconuts [131] sinjin (0)(1 36) romola [36 111]Romanic (0)(1 47) Renata [47 72]Not Voting (7) Captain Pinkies, sinjin, Hockey Monkey, naturallylazy, guiri, Red Skeezix, romola With these votes, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCoconuts would be lynched.
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Romola
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One of them saw two words of the joke and spent several weeks in hospital.
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Post by Romola on Feb 13, 2011 15:52:37 GMT -5
…... Merestil Haye, Captain Pinkies, sinjin, Hockey Monkey, Mahaloth, Suburban Plankton, naturallylazy, guiri, pedescribe, Natlaw, Red Skeezix, romola:Where are you? We need your votes Here. Sorry it's taken so long, the arguments have been complex and I've been trying to get my head round exactly what was going on with the votes and unvotes late yesterDay and make sense of the claims, last Night's deaths and the results/lack of from you and Maha. I'm still finding the board mechanics a bit of a handicap in some ways, which is making long posts with quotes a bit of a major job. I agree that a role claim can't be a 'get out of jail free card indefinitely. However, on Day One, there are worse policies than letting claimed powers live and produce results to be scrutinised on later Days. The difficulty seems to be with players who have claimed that as a policy reason to unvote Mahaloth, but not applied it consistently by not lifting their votes from KidV after he made his own claim. I do agree that players need some scrutiny over that, but cookies/coconuts account of how her suspicions evolved reads credibly to me. I'm as suspicious of the players who didn't come back in time to see the claim as the ones who saw the claim but have explained their reasons for not lifting the vote. Your self preservation vote makes sense to me, or at least it is a null tell as far as I am concerned. I've done it myself. I thought from the beginning that Mahaloth's claimed role may be unfeasibly powerful. However, I did think it made sense to keep him alive to claim results and have them scrutinised. Unfortunately, the claimed investigation results leave us none the wiser as to whether he's telling the truth or not. Also, Paranoia's confirmed role as an investigator casts additonal doubt on Maha's claim. No, it's not impossible that Town may have two investigative roles, but we also have to consider, if you are truthful, why Scum would have role blocked yourself, as a Watcher, rather than an investigator. I would be happy with a Mahaloth lynch toDay. Vote Mahaloth
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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 13, 2011 16:09:26 GMT -5
Ah, this will mark the second straight game then that I am lynched at the relative last minute. Great.
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Post by guiri on Feb 13, 2011 16:14:50 GMT -5
Ah, this will mark the second straight game then that I am lynched at the relative last minute. Great. Vote MahalothFor: - the reasons posted yesterDay when I voted him - the omgus vote on me without any reasoning - disappearing after making the claim except to comment on a previous game - the dead questioner/investigator - being reminded of the Halloween game twice - trying to convince us that there could be two cops - the single result and the convenient death of Timmy- the "I have/had no idea who scum is" - the change in reasoning behind his selection of targets - the lack of scum hunting after getting some heat yesterDay and all toDay - the faulty reasoning in his vote for Cookies, I see no inconsistency, just ballsy scum hunting
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Romola
Mome Rath
One of them saw two words of the joke and spent several weeks in hospital.
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Post by Romola on Feb 13, 2011 16:50:07 GMT -5
I also forgot about Maha's post #90 in this game, arguing about the semantics of the phrase 'custom made PM's' and quoting Renata instead of a mod. It's not the quote that pings, it's why he would feel the need to take issue with the phrase at all if he hadn't posted a mod-composed fake PM.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 13, 2011 16:58:08 GMT -5
vote MahalothI wasn't completely sold on his claim yesterday, and something about his 'investigation' doesn't ring true to me today. Add to that the fact that he's made no effort today to add anything to the analysis, and he seems Scummy to me. Weren't completely sold? "Ring true" That's a bit vague to earn a vote. And if that was the beginning and end of my case against you, you would have a valid point.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 13, 2011 17:25:30 GMT -5
I should have just stuck with my vote on Mahaloth yesterday and avoided a lot of distraction.
Unvote: Texcat Vote: Mahaloth
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on Feb 13, 2011 17:39:49 GMT -5
Rereading on Cookienuts I don't see her (not) unvoting reasoning as scummy. Of course scum would like to lynch a power role but they wouldn't want to stick out. And there was at least one town candidate to switch to (timmy) for the lynch.
I don't have a real read on Mahaloth. The facts is that a town investigator turned up but we don't know what kind (but also have a watcer claim). Another is that scum apparantly left him alone last Night which doesn't make sense to me when they block the claimed watcher.
I'm not going to vote Cookies to lynch her instead Mahaloth because I'm not convinced Cookies is scum. I rather let Mahaloth live another Night for more results but the case makes it probably he is scum. The lack of anything but defense post I expected but he also refused to explain who he thought was scum or town. I don't see why not - a protector has to gamble with scum. But any investigation result is ok. Note that I don't mean he has to call out he future targets but the reasoning from previous ones there is more benefit to share than not.
Anyway that leaves me arguing for another lynch than those two which brings me back to the non-participants. I don't like MHaye ignoring the cases against Cookies and Mahaloth. lyla only has one post Today.
Unvote: pedescribe Vote: MHaye While pedescribe summary/won't vote Yesterday was bad, MHayes vote for him while completely ignoring the rest of the game is worse.
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Post by special on Feb 13, 2011 18:06:40 GMT -5
Vote Countwith approximately 0 days, 8 hours and 53 minutes until DayEndPlayer (# of votes) (peak number of votes) voters [post in which vote was cast, post in which vote was removed] Mahaloth (7) (7 187) harmless little bunny [3], peeker [163], Suburban Plankton [167], pedescribe [180], romola [182], guiri [184], ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCoconuts [187] ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCoconuts (4)(4 178) CatInASuit [41], texcat [128], bobargh [151], Mahaloth [178] pedescribe (1)(2 179) Natlaw [169 188], Merestil Haye [179] Sister Coyote (1)(1 20) romanic [20] Bobarrgh (1)(1 97) Sister Coyote [97] Suburban Plankton (1)(1 121) Renata [121] Merestil Haye (1) (1 188) Natlaw [188] sinjin (0)(1 36) romola [36 111]Romanic (0)(1 47) Renata [47 72]texcat (0)(1 131) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCoconuts [131 187]Not Voting (5) Captain Pinkies, sinjin, Hockey Monkey, naturallylazy, Red Skeezix With these votes, Mahaloth would be lynched.
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Merestil Haye
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[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
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Post by Merestil Haye on Feb 13, 2011 18:08:14 GMT -5
Anyway that leaves me arguing for another lynch than those two which brings me back to the non-participants. I don't like MHaye ignoring the cases against Cookies and Mahaloth. lyla only has one post Today. Unvote: pedescribe [/color] Vote: MHaye [/color] While pedescribe summary/won't vote Yesterday was bad, MHayes vote for him while completely ignoring the rest of the game is worse.[/quote]I'm not ignoring the rest of the game, thank you very much. I'm placing a vote on someone who I find scummy, while rereading the recet arguments to see if anyone appears scummi er. Pede's contributions Today (at least up to the time I made my vote) were basically fluff or opinions without any logical backing. That, on top of his refusal to vote Yesterday, pinged me enough for a vote while I read. I'm not going to be able to try getting up at 6am in order to place a vote - it won't work. And failing to vote two Days in a row is just plain bad. Or would you rather I do a Pede and just not vote Today?
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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 13, 2011 20:07:55 GMT -5
Wow, we really are screwed, folks. We've lost major power roles and now it looks like me, too. I have to assume I was the last investigative power on Town's side and I haven't been able to even investigate twice.
Please reconsider the lynch. I haven't been at my best in the game, but I still don't see scum motivation in anything I've done. I'm not vanilla, so staying alive is huge.
I assume the scum were going to kill me toNight anyway, so why give them a free kill by killing me? Heck, if the scum don't kill me in the Night and you don't believe my investigation result toMorrow, just lynch me then.
Worst case is that I get NK'ed by the scum, which saves you a lynch. You would get one more investigation out of me before you lynch me toMorrow(which I am assuming you do if I live).
Town, please reconsider this lynch. At least delay it until toMorrow.
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Post by BobArrgh on Feb 13, 2011 21:18:02 GMT -5
None of Mahaloth's protestations toDay have done anything to convince me that he is Town. I still think that Cookies/Coconuts can't help but vote for someone who has voted for her, or at least that's what it looks like to me. But, Mahaloth has definitely pinged my Scumdar harder toDay than she has.
Unvote Cookies/Coconuts Vote Mahaloth
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Post by special on Feb 13, 2011 21:45:26 GMT -5
Vote Countwith approximately 0 days, 5 hours and 14 minutes until DayEndPlayer (# of votes) (peak number of votes) voters [post in which vote was cast, post in which vote was removed] Mahaloth (8) (8 192) harmless little bunny [3], peeker [163], Suburban Plankton [167], pedescribe [180], romola [182], guiri [184], ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCoconuts [187], bobarrgh [192] ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCoconuts (3)(4 178) CatInASuit [41], texcat [128], bobargh [151 192], Mahaloth [178] pedescribe (1)(2 179) Natlaw [169 188], Merestil Haye [179] Sister Coyote (1)(1 20) romanic [20] Bobarrgh (1)(1 97) Sister Coyote [97] Suburban Plankton (1)(1 121) Renata [121] Merestil Haye (1) (1 188) Natlaw [188] sinjin (0)(1 36) romola [36 111]Romanic (0)(1 47) Renata [47 72]texcat (0)(1 131) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCoconuts [131 187]Not Voting (5) Captain Pinkies, sinjin, Hockey Monkey, naturallylazy, Red Skeezix With these votes, Mahaloth would be lynched.
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Post by sinjin on Feb 13, 2011 22:12:59 GMT -5
I have not had time to reread for comprehension. RL has been busy beyond belief and the singuy got to stay around for one more night w00t.
I am not digging the votes on Mahaloth. His claimed power is filled with hazards. If he links a town with a scum or a town with a 3rd party he is toast.
I am also still twigged by cookies keeping her vote on KidV even after the archangel role was spelled out for her.
Sorry, don't have time to build a better case. Gah, I hate this but I have nothing else to go on.
vote Cookies/Migrating Coconuts
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 13, 2011 22:27:47 GMT -5
None of Mahaloth's protestations toDay have done anything to convince me that he is Town. I still think that Cookies/Coconuts can't help but vote for someone who has voted for her, or at least that's what it looks like to me. But, Mahaloth has definitely pinged my Scumdar harder toDay than she has. Unvote Cookies/Coconuts Vote MahalothFirst of all, this is the second time you've summarized my play inaccurately. First, you accused me of pledging that I would unvote KidV. This has been proven to be false. Now this. I've voted for someone who voted for me first exactly once. I've voted a total of 4 times. How does this add up to evidence of this compulsion that you seem to think I have? All of the cases against me bother me, because they're wrong and sometimes scum will give some helpful nudges to town-on-town attacks. Texcat's case in particular is based on vapor. If she's town, I was trying to snap her out of her wrong and anti-town mindset with one of the few things left in my arsenal, my vote. My counter-arguments didn't seem to be be working, so I tried something else. If I had another vote I'd be sliding it your way too, bob. Consider yourself finger-of-shamed right there next to Texcat.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 13, 2011 22:28:20 GMT -5
Thanks sinjin. Great to be playing with you too. What is it with you people?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 13, 2011 22:33:45 GMT -5
I never needed the Archeangel role to be spelled out for me. That's part of the problem. Apparently KidV and anyone who did not consider it a role with protective facets needed to have the role spelled out for them. The details of the powers combined with KidV's use of language, and defensive behavior all influenced my vote.
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Post by special on Feb 13, 2011 23:34:04 GMT -5
Vote Countwith approximately 0 days, 3 hours and 26 minutes until DayEndPlayer (# of votes) (peak number of votes) voters [post in which vote was cast, post in which vote was removed] Mahaloth (8) (8 192) harmless little bunny [3], peeker [163], Suburban Plankton [167], pedescribe [180], romola [182], guiri [184], ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCoconuts [187], bobarrgh [192] ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCoconuts (4)(4 178) CatInASuit [41], texcat [128], bobargh [151 192], Mahaloth [178], sinjin [194] pedescribe (1)(2 179) Natlaw [169 188], Merestil Haye [179] Sister Coyote (1)(1 20) romanic [20] Bobarrgh (1)(1 97) Sister Coyote [97] Suburban Plankton (1)(1 121) Renata [121] Merestil Haye (1) (1 188) Natlaw [188] sinjin (0)(1 36) romola [36 111]Romanic (0)(1 47) Renata [47 72]texcat (0)(1 131) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCoconuts [131 187]Not Voting (4) Captain Pinkies, Hockey Monkey, naturallylazy, Red Skeezix With these votes, Mahaloth would be lynched.
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Post by Red Skeezix on Feb 14, 2011 0:21:02 GMT -5
Oh shit, the day's almost over? On a weekend. Jeez louise. BRB with my vote for the day.
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Post by Red Skeezix on Feb 14, 2011 0:28:01 GMT -5
I never needed the Archeangel role to be spelled out for me. That's part of the problem. Apparently KidV and anyone who did not consider it a role with protective facets needed to have the role spelled out for them. The details of the powers combined with KidV's use of language, and defensive behavior all influenced my vote. Yeah, but you seemed to be implying that he was claiming "the doctor role". Which he was not, archangel is really a reverse roleblocker. Although, you're not really the only one on the blame train for lynching a claimed archangel. Although, something is twigging me about your play, i can't put a face to a name as it was, so i don't feel comfortable voting you. Instead, I'm gonna vote naturally lazy. I feel like she's laying low. vote naturallylazy
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Post by Red Skeezix on Feb 14, 2011 0:28:45 GMT -5
stupid color tag can eat a pile of dogshit.
Vote: naturallylazy
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on Feb 14, 2011 2:36:51 GMT -5
Or would you rather I do a Pede and just not vote Today? No, I don't have a problem with you vote an sich (see my own votes). But a lynch-the-non-participant case is the only thing you have done. No comments on the claims? On the other things that have happened in the game? How are we supposed to determine your alignment?
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Feb 14, 2011 2:37:21 GMT -5
Having reread the activity of the last 30-odd hours, I thought it would be a good idea to get a close look at the two main lynch candidates. Mahaloth. The feeling I get about Mahaloth is that his heart isn't wholly in this game right now. It's an overall impression based on several things. The most important is probably D02.090. This is the infamous post where he quoted Renata's discussing the fake PM issue as if it were a Mod post. I'm not sure he was wholly paying attention when he wrote that, or he would have spotted that it was not from the Mods. There's also the lack of interest in just why the Mafia didn't silence him – either by killing or roleblocking (HLB has claimed to have been blocked last Night). It's possible that he's feeling a sense of deja vú, given that this sort of thing happened in the Castle of Crossed Destinies, when he got lynched – also on Day 2 – and was revealed as a Cult member. This on top of the continual suspicion rained on him in Halloween Mafia, when he was a Detective with a weird role (an artefact of the fact that there were four Mods, none of whom were telepaths.) Conclusion. Given Mahaloth's history, I could actually see him reacting this way whether he was a the role he claims he has or a Mafiate. So there's not enough for me to vote for him. On to the other lead contender, and there is a lot more to chew on. DarkCoconut. DarkCoconut has spent most of her Day explaining and justifying her vote on KidVermicious Yesterday. It seems to be the sole topic of her conversation, although (to be fair about it) she did attract a lot of heat for it. So I had a look at what went on Yesterday. DarkCoconut's vote ( D01.360) was on the basis of KidV's “double standard,” a phrase used by at least one other player (Renata, in D01.350). Renata's basis for the accusation is that KidV was treating two similar roles differently (both information-gathering roles that could confirm themselves and that the Mafia would have to deal with). KidV explains why he treated the two claims differently in D01.379, asserting that he found the difference in the way the players reacted to pressure and activity level sufficient grounds for treating them differently. I can't find where DarkCoconut addressed this statement, though. Then comes the infamous D01.401. This is the post in which DarkCoconut asserts that she still considers Mahaloth the most suspicious player, but is going to vote for someone else. Contrary to some other people, I don't find this an automatic reason for suspicion. There are two reasons I might do something like this. Firstly, I might be suspicious of two players, but feel I have a better chance of getting my #2 suspect lynched owing to the existing suspicions of others. Secondly, there's strategic voting – C and D are up for lynch, but I think they are both Town. In that case I might vote for one over the other just to do the least harm to Town, if I have no clear candidate to register suspicion against. Coming to D01.411, I do find a problem. Here, DarkCoconut seems to be justifying her vote for Kid in part because she and the Kid are looking at the same data and coming to different conclusions, which she attributes to double standards. However, KidV's contention that he reacted differently because the two players reacted differently to pressure undermines this conclusion and needed to be addressed. Finally, there is D01.424, which is picked up by CIAS earlier Today, in D02.041, as the main reason to vote DarkCoconut. His accusation is based on DarkCoconut saying that she “(doesn't) think he is the only protective role we have, but I do consider him as overlapping with the protective features in the balancing,” while keeping her vote on him. But that makes it sound as if she believes he's Town; if he's a Mafiate then he's on the opposite side to Town protective roles and the abilities wouldn't “overlap.” DarkCoconut's defence is that the paragraph that quote was lifted from was written assuming the truth of KidV's claim. That doesn't quite square with my reading of the paragraph, though. It might start with assuming that KidV is true, but by the end of the paragraph, it reads like the hypothesis has been accepted. Bobaargh switches his vote away from DarkCoconut in D02.192 claiming that DC has a tendency to OMGUS vote. She reacts by claiming she's done that once out of four votes placed, which is not true; both her votes Today have been for players who had votes on her at the time. (Texcat voted in 128 and she voted back in 131; Mahaloth voted DC in 178 and she returned the compliment in 187.) Now, Bobaargh claimed DarkCoconut promised to unvote KidV in D02.152. I didn't find any such statement from DC when I went over her Day 1. Conclusion. A lot of what has been thrown at DarkCoconut Today is unfounded. There are a some things, however, which mud does stick to. Her failure to address the point in D01.379, CIAS's accusation in D02.041, and the misstatement over how many times she has voted for people then voting her all have some valid grounds. I'm suspicious enough of DarkCoconut on those grounds to register a vote. Unvote: pedescribe Vote: DarkCoconut I wound up having to sleep on this bit after all, which is why it's being posted 30 minutes before Dusk. Another dose of eyestrain. I think I'll try and get back to sleep. Night all.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Feb 14, 2011 2:44:03 GMT -5
Or would you rather I do a Pede and just not vote Today? No, I don't have a problem with you vote an sich (see my own votes). But a lynch-the-non-participant case is the only thing you have done. No comments on the claims? On the other things that have happened in the game? How are we supposed to determine your alignment? I don't consider pedescribe a nonparticipant; he's just done very little. Captain Pinkies is a nonparticipant. I said when I voted pedescribe that I would be rereading the recent events. You jumped in while I was still doing that. Thanks for waiting.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 14, 2011 2:48:55 GMT -5
I had a vote on Mahaloth back on Day 1, before he ever voted me. Thanks for pointing out how much of the crap being brought up as being unfounded, but then you went and added more unfounded crap to the heap.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 14, 2011 2:51:52 GMT -5
And I think I've gone above and beyond the call of explaining the reasoning for a Day 1 vote, but one more time...my initial vote on KidV was based on coming to different conclusions with respect to Mahaloth and Bunny, but it was not until after his claim and subsequent posts and behavior, that I decided to leave my vote on KidV.
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on Feb 14, 2011 2:58:41 GMT -5
Please reconsider the lynch. I haven't been at my best in the game, but I still don't see scum motivation in anything I've done. I'm not vanilla, so staying alive is huge. You don't see the scum motivation in claiming to avoid a lynch? Yes, of course town would do that too but claiming is all you have done. Because that's how you played as town in Halloween as well I'm not voting you but I don't feel lynching the runner up Cookies (the gap is bigger now anyway) who I don't see as scum yet just to save a power role.
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