Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 5:56:15 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Sept 23, 2007 5:56:15 GMT -5
<snip> Shiny People CatinaSuit - Crew - Wash Diomedes - Beat Cop - Mr Universe Dnooman - Crew - Sherriff Bourne Mad the Swine - Mason - Hector Sanchez Roosh - Crew - Inara Serra Yattara - Crew - ?? <snip>[/quote]
Just because Yattara was sleeping last night, doesn't mean we can assume (s)he's crew. The way I understand the "watcher" type role, they can't tell a person's allegiance, only that they did or didn't do anything that night. Each scum could have a 1/n chance of carrying out their kill, leaving n-1 scum "sleeping" every night.
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Merestil Haye
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Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 7:01:10 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 23, 2007 7:01:10 GMT -5
On the investigation result. It is by no means certain that Yattara is crew.
As I understand Roosh's roleclaim, there is a 50% chance that Inara Serra can kill whoever attacks her at Night. If true, that implies (at least to my mind) that the person doing the killing is a discrete, identified individual - ie that the Alliance (or other killing faction) must select a person to make the hit. Alternatively, if the killer is taken down, the actual character can be selected from among the organisation's members at random by NAFKat. This would argue that nocturnal inactivity is no proof of scumminess (or lack thereof).
On the other hand, I would have assumed that the Alliance have to spend some of the Night in conclave - ie that an Alliance-aligned player would have to spend some of the Night meeting with his or her fellow scum. Would Mr. Universe not have seen that activity?
I'm inclined to put Yattara into the "notAlliance" bracket for now, although with less confidence than MadTheSwine.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 7:05:42 GMT -5
Post by Captain Klutz on Sept 23, 2007 7:05:42 GMT -5
Time to start looking at the non-shiny people methinks. By "shiny people", do you mean "people who have been pretty well cleared"? Because I would only put 2 or 3 in that category (dnooman, Mad, and possibly Yattara). I have some lingering doubts about Diomedes. They have been partially eased by his reporting of a successful investigation (no more "fuzzy screens"). I await developments, but in the meantime I will accept him as Mr Universe, aka Peeping Tom. Roosh - he is very likely Inara Serra, but this does not automatically mean he is crew. He has claimed a minor pro-town defensive power, which makes him unlikely to be targeted at Night. This is just the sort of power that scum might claim. However, I am inclined to accept his claim, on the rather WIFOM basis that if he were making it up he would have incorporated her non-archery skills in some way. I suppose I rate Roosh as reasonably shiny. CatInASuit - you survived a near lynching by virtue of being named after a major character, Wash. People had trouble believing that Wash could be a bad guy, so votes switched to Dotchan, who had the misfortune of having a name that doesn't exist in the Firefly universe. I agree that claiming a non-existant name could be suspicious, an attempt to hide what might be a very nasty name (after all, The Operative did turn out to be the Serial Killer). However, it is now clear that invented names do exist. The next question is, could trusted names actually be scum? Well, look at the opening colour post in Day 1: This looks to be saying that people could have been brainwashed or something, and turned to the other side. So we can't just mark people as "good" based on their name. If you are saying that you have a major good guy name and therefore you must be a shiny good guy, well that argument doesn't wash.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 9:50:15 GMT -5
Post by Mad The Swine on Sept 23, 2007 9:50:15 GMT -5
Mad, I trust you understand now why you were hounded to reveal more details than simply "I'm a mason." Had you died last night also (and it's very reasonable to consider that you would have been targeted since the scum would have known you aren't one of them), without revealing that there were only two of you (masons), a scum may have been able to claim being a third one. Now, that threat is eliminated. Also, had you not given the two specific details, you would not be 100% confirmed in my mind, like you are now. That was part of my decision to claim fully. I wasn't expecting such a negative reaction to my initial claim though. Someone counters mason, we lynch me or the counter claimer and catch a scum. But...then came all the scenarios..what if there are two mason groups?...what if there are no mason groups?...what if he is a mason but a scum mason? I am suspicious of most of those who pressured me into revealing all..starting with mhaye. ..and suspicious of those who didn't question my claim..why would scum question me..they would know I am being truthful. ummm...*scratches head* ...dang.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 9:55:42 GMT -5
Post by Mad The Swine on Sept 23, 2007 9:55:42 GMT -5
Dio, any results from your night watch? Results? Yes and no. My info-feed wasn't disrupted last night, but unfortunately, all I got was an 8-hour video of Yattara sleeping. No, you can't have a copy, you perv. It's going in my collection. If you are who you say you are,I am not sure you need to reveal who you watched if it was not sucessful.It's all WIFOM but ,I don't see the need to tell the scum anything they don't need to know. Just my 2 cents...waddya all think?
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Parzival
Mome Rath
Let's all strive to do our best today![on:forgot to log out][of:forgot to log in]
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 10:11:30 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on Sept 23, 2007 10:11:30 GMT -5
I think we need to at least hear from Yattara before we agree on anything observed or said about her. I'm not ready to pull my suspicions off of Diomedes.
I'm interested in who the scum killed, primarily, since that tends to give us the most information. Any other killers don't know which side their target is on.
The scum almost certainly would have been unaware of Greedy's role as The Operative. So he's a possible scum target (and the simplest explanation for last night). The question then becomes whether his death had a clear motive or not.
If the scum did kill diggitcamera, it's probably not because they figured he was a Mason. That'd be a dumb move for them since his death after Yesterday confirms Mad as crew. This scenario also requires another (as yet unseen) night killer.
I don't discard the chance of another killing role, though there's also a good possibility it might not be able to kill every night (by choice or probability).
(n.b. on terminology - I've used "Alliance scum" on occasion as distinct from 'scum' for all anti-crew roles. I'll probably use 'scum' most often for this from now on, and maybe 'anti-crew' for all others.)
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RoOsh
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Former BatMod
[on:Wanna see a magic trick?][of:See You, Space Cowboy....]
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 10:24:59 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Sept 23, 2007 10:24:59 GMT -5
I think we need to at least hear from Yattara before we agree on anything observed or said about her. I'm just wondering to myself what information we could glean from Yattara coming in here to "confirm" diomedes. I don't think it's very possible. What's s/he gonna do? "No, i actually wasn't sleeping last night. I have a night time power role!" That sort of information will get us nowhere methinks, it'd be best to spend time thinking of other things, and when Yattara comes along, yattara can do what they wish.. And if Mr. Universe wants to keep his results to himself, that's fine, as long as he reports anything out of the ordinary (ie: If he sees any movement or fuzzy screens or anything that's not sleeping). Or if he feels this information would be useful to us: (ie: we're about to lynch someone who he feels is "innocent". Actually, the people i want to hear from the most are the people who felt their voices were overshadowed in D1. There has been a 2-3 day period where they could spend time reading and coming up with ideas: CaerieD, tragic, whatthefrak, zerielare the ones that leap out at me. Of those, I'm already a little leery of Tragic, so I'd like to hear more from her, because on D1, she was popping up to point out her thoughts, and even voted for a no lynch, but it didn't seem as if she was trying to present any new ideas, just simply following half of the town's consensus*. I'd love for her to start a new discussion today, or present some of her thoughts/ideas on the game w/o there being one already present. *This point I feel the same about w/ Atarus, but he's spoken up a bit, and i'm sure he'll make his presence felt at some point. But man, I disliked your "i'll just do what town wants me to do" posting at the end of D1.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 10:29:17 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Sept 23, 2007 10:29:17 GMT -5
Results? Yes and no. My info-feed wasn't disrupted last night, but unfortunately, all I got was an 8-hour video of Yattara sleeping. No, you can't have a copy, you perv. It's going in my collection. If you are who you say you are,I am not sure you need to reveal who you watched if it was not sucessful.It's all WIFOM but ,I don't see the need to tell the scum anything they don't need to know. Just my 2 cents...waddya all think? My guess is that Dio would have told us this same reading even if he saw Yattara go into someone's room with his medical bag, you know what I mean? I'd imagine that "I didn't see him kill anyone" gives no new information to the scum that they didn't already have. It seems like everyone is trying to figure out who killed who, and that seems like a bit of a waste of time to me, at least until we have more info from a few more days to go on. A little speculation is a fine thing, but I think it distracts from our ultimate goal, which is to find scum toDay. I can understand a little burnout, since yesterDay was so insane (unless you're Roosh, of course... ), but we should probably start to focus less on who killed diggit and Greedy, and more on why they died.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 11:23:22 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 23, 2007 11:23:22 GMT -5
I wonder if anyone else get felt up by Hal's Night 1 Easter Bunny last night? The identity of said Easter Bunny should stay on the down low, I believe, and if anyone did have a visit, please be very careful with what you decide to share about the visit, and when you share it, should you decide to share.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 11:23:27 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Sept 23, 2007 11:23:27 GMT -5
For now, I'm going to use Occam's Razor and assume that Greedy killed diggit, and the Alliance killed Greedy. I went back and looked at Greedy's Day 1 posts to see what he said, to see if there was any reason for the Alliance to want him dead. The only post where Greedy really voiced any suspicion of anything (aside from his votes) was this post. In summary, that post is basically him summarizing possible theories about why Diomedes got fuzzy screens on Hal, then FOSing both Hal and Diomedes. The only person I gathered that voiced suspicion of Greedy himself was Spaceman Blam. Keep in mind, I only looked through the 29 pages, any pages lost to the black I didn't wade through. I didn't want to have to search through everyone's Day 1 posts to find every reference to Greedy. Heh. All in all, though, I think the reason that Greedy may have been killed by Alliance was that he kept his head on the entire Day. Most of his posts were rational, calm and collected analyses or opinions of what was going on. I think, if anything, the scum were trying to kill off a reasonable voice of the town while hoping that toDay is as chaotic and disorganized as yesterDay. They were also probably fishing for a power role, they just got unlucky and found one that might have helped them if Greedy hadn't been killed. As for the whole "is Yattara shiny now" thing, I don't think her sleeping all night confirms her as anything except somebody that didn't do anything last night. She isn't more townie or more scum in my eyes, she's still neutral.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 11:44:10 GMT -5
Post by Tragic on Sept 23, 2007 11:44:10 GMT -5
You're right, Roosh, in saying that I had nothing new to add in Day 1. I collected all the evidence that I saw fit to use and made my own judgment - that I wasn't comfortable lynching someone who I doubted was an Alliance member.
I didn't want to be another voice who reiterated points over and over again - gee I wonder why we broke the board! I didn't want to post unless I had something intelligent to say and I suppose I need to take that filter off myself now since it doesn't seem to matter so long as I have an opinion that y'all can trace.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
Posts: 3
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 11:56:55 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Sept 23, 2007 11:56:55 GMT -5
<snip> we should probably start to focus less on who killed diggit and Greedy, and more on why they died. I disagree. You have to remember that people who are allowing the information from Night deaths are the very people who are trying to lead the town into more confusion. I've seen some very surprising catches on the scum boards in the past, and I don't doubt for a second that the scum had a bead on the SK. So, we can't really gain any additional info from that, an SK usually favors town in the endgame, but favors scum in the opening days. I can't recall ever having somebody pick out a Mason on the first day, so that may have been a luck of the draw. Regardless, in moving forward in using this information, we must remember who's giving it to us.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 12:58:17 GMT -5
Post by Mad The Swine on Sept 23, 2007 12:58:17 GMT -5
If you are who you say you are,I am not sure you need to reveal who you watched if it was not sucessful.It's all WIFOM but ,I don't see the need to tell the scum anything they don't need to know. Just my 2 cents...waddya all think? My guess is that Dio would have told us this same reading even if he saw Yattara go into someone's room with his medical bag, you know what I mean? I'd imagine that "I didn't see him kill anyone" gives no new information to the scum that they didn't already have. It seems like everyone is trying to figure out who killed who, and that seems like a bit of a waste of time to me, at least until we have more info from a few more days to go on. A little speculation is a fine thing, but I think it distracts from our ultimate goal, which is to find scum toDay. I can understand a little burnout, since yesterDay was so insane (unless you're Roosh, of course... ), but we should probably start to focus less on who killed diggit and Greedy, and more on why they died. Except he told them who he watched...A "I didnt see anything" would have been better IMO.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 13:35:08 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Sept 23, 2007 13:35:08 GMT -5
"I didn't see anything" for a second day in a row would have probably made me vote for him.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 13:40:35 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Sept 23, 2007 13:40:35 GMT -5
I would like to know why Dio investigated Yattara. I don't recall that she posted much and never appeared to come under suspicion. But given the length of the day I may have misremembered.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 13:53:53 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Sept 23, 2007 13:53:53 GMT -5
Maybe "a certain member was sleeping" then?
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RoOsh
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Former BatMod
[on:Wanna see a magic trick?][of:See You, Space Cowboy....]
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 14:23:09 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Sept 23, 2007 14:23:09 GMT -5
I would like to know why Dio investigated Yattara. Why would you want to know why he investigated Yattara, Sinjin? This is partially entering the realm of where it's too much info. I would rather have an unhindered Cop/Tracker/Pro-townie Role NOT reveal these sorts of information. Because honestly, what good would it do for us as a town? We don't need to know WHY a cop investigated someone, because that'll only lead to a road of Scum trying to WIFOM how not to be investigated, and trying to then "control the role". I hate the idea of Controlling Pro-town roles (Such as Mafia 2: The Public Vigilante). That's just an awful ill thought out idea, and I think we should leave some human randomness in the system. Let cops do what they want, let docs do what they want, and let vigs do what they want. If they want OUR help, they'll ask our opinions, but until then, I think they should be independent from us as a town because I do NOT want scum to try to figure out their logical processes on how they're picking people to investigate. Same with the "I got a blank read on so and so", I'm iffy on the reveal now. Because it'd go either way. I'd def. have been suspicious if he'd said he'd gotten no read, or was unsure. But I think as time passes and I trust that Mr. Universe is who he is, then I'm more willing to go with the "I got a Sleeper last night" with no mention of names unless it comes to where that person may be in danger. The less info we give to scum from Power Town Roles, the better. And Keep them independent of us, for god's sake! (Stupid Public Vigilante... such a bad idea)
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Gir!
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EVIL Demon Goddess Mod
What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 15:00:50 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Sept 23, 2007 15:00:50 GMT -5
[dramatic voice-over] The role of CaerieD will be played toDay by dotchan. [dramatic voice-over]
Meet your new sub, same as the old sub. ;D
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Parzival
Mome Rath
Let's all strive to do our best today![on:forgot to log out][of:forgot to log in]
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 15:01:32 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on Sept 23, 2007 15:01:32 GMT -5
Yattara doesn't have to say what she did or didn't do last night, but she would be able to tell us if Diomedes's claim to have investigated is the truth.
(Yes, she might lie as well, which puts is in a pickle - but until we hear we won't know. Which is why I'm waiting to make any judgment. )
Remember, he isn't confirmed in his power role yet. And I'm not going to trust his investigations until we can verify.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 15:05:29 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Sept 23, 2007 15:05:29 GMT -5
I have nothing to add to the thread at this time, but I would suggest that maybe we should kill dotchan again so she can substitute for the next person that gets kicked out.
Just kidding! ;D
--FCOD
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 15:11:58 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Sept 23, 2007 15:11:58 GMT -5
Why do I want to know, Roosh? I think it's a perfectly legitimate queston. He voted against CatInASuit 3 times, WhattheFrak twice and me, Pygmy Rugger, and Idle Thoughts once. Yet he investigated Yattara whom he had never voted against once.
Oh and for the record the only two people I'm convinced are crew besides myself are Mad and dnooman.
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Death By Irony
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The Former Mandate of Heaven/Current Gastard Night Mod
I'm my own mind-altering substance!
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 15:27:48 GMT -5
Post by Death By Irony on Sept 23, 2007 15:27:48 GMT -5
Told you you couldn't get rid of me! ;D
Now, then, during Asylum Lane pygmy rugger was the first to ask the question of "why" somebody died, and I pointed out that this was a possible scumtell, since nobody other than the scum would know and it seemed like the scum would want to raise this topic of discussion to distract from more important topics, as well as show off how "smart" they are or whatever. Unfortunately I never followed up on my suspicion, but it turned out my hunch was currect.
Therefore, on that note, FoS drain bead.
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RoOsh
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Former BatMod
[on:Wanna see a magic trick?][of:See You, Space Cowboy....]
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 16:00:58 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Sept 23, 2007 16:00:58 GMT -5
Well, Sinjin, it's not a legit Question for future reference. It seems like fishing. But you're new, so I'll give you a pass here. Let's move on shall we?
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RoOsh
FGM
Former BatMod
[on:Wanna see a magic trick?][of:See You, Space Cowboy....]
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 16:06:16 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Sept 23, 2007 16:06:16 GMT -5
/out of game: Wow. I wish i could edit. on a reread, that sounded REALLY snippy of me, and I didn't want it to come across that way.
So I'm sorry about that last remark, Sinjin. I was only trying to imply that such questioning is quite unhelpful for the town as a whole vs. your seeking out information personally. Whatever Dio reveals will not help us in the long run about who he chooses to pick every night.
/oog
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 16:58:39 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 23, 2007 16:58:39 GMT -5
Welcome back, dotchan. Your immortality is almost enough to make me rethink my agnosticky, atheistesque ways.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 17:09:50 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Sept 23, 2007 17:09:50 GMT -5
Let me just say that I'm not going to reveal any information about why I chose to investigate Yatarra. I don't want my reasoning behind investigating people to influence scum actions. If anyone wants to know my reasoning, I'll explain when I'm dead.
Further, if I do catch someone in the nighttime doing something very townie (like going into someone's room with a doc bag), I'm going to post exactly what I did today. I'll report fuzzy screens versus successful investigations, and I'll probably post whom I investigated at some point during each day, but I don't see any reason to give more information to the scum than that. if you guys don't want to trust me now, that's fine by me. But I won't go without giving everyone as much information as I collect before I get killed. You can trust or not trust it when, inevitably, death clears the air.
Oh, and I'm still suspicious of sinjin. I'm mildly suspicious of Captain Klutz because of his reasoning for voting for me yesterday (not -that- he voted for me, but his explanation for doing so). I no longer have particularly strong suspicions of Idle or Pygmy, beyond my normal paranoia.
And Roosh is absolutely right, I'm not going to let the town have any say in what I do. First, because investigative roles don't work very well if they're broadcasted, and second, because I don't believe in letting the scum have any more influence or information than they already do.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 17:12:42 GMT -5
Post by Mad The Swine on Sept 23, 2007 17:12:42 GMT -5
Vote dotchan for lurking.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 17:13:25 GMT -5
Post by Mad The Swine on Sept 23, 2007 17:13:25 GMT -5
just kidding...unvote dot
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Death By Irony
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The Former Mandate of Heaven/Current Gastard Night Mod
I'm my own mind-altering substance!
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 17:25:28 GMT -5
Post by Death By Irony on Sept 23, 2007 17:25:28 GMT -5
>.> What, I thought I was quite prompt with checking in.
And it's totally not cool to mess with the voting record like that.
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Day Two
Sept 23, 2007 17:27:13 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Sept 23, 2007 17:27:13 GMT -5
It's even less shiny to get lynched and come back to life! Lynch the zombie!
lynch: dotch--/color]... ehh... never mind. It's probably not fun anymore, is it?
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