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Post by Dirx on May 2, 2011 19:29:06 GMT -5
That's a good point. Could be some sort of weak Scum investigator, in which case it wouldn't behave at all like the eavesdropper.
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Post by LightFoot on May 2, 2011 19:56:01 GMT -5
I'm guessing a Bomber works like a Bomb (although I am reading many variations of a "bomb" ) I'm not familiar with the "Mad" addition. Is it an adjective that anyone is familiar with? (in game)
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Post by Sister Coyote on May 2, 2011 19:57:08 GMT -5
First Vote Count of the Day
No votes.
With these votes, no one will be lynched.
(Turns out I am here after all. Oh, well.)
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Post by Archangel on May 2, 2011 20:01:39 GMT -5
Sister Coyote, do the wincons in the rules indicate that everyone in the game's alignment is either town or scum?
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Post by special on May 2, 2011 20:02:04 GMT -5
I'm guessing a Bomber works like a Bomb (although I am reading many variations of a "bomb" ) I'm not familiar with the "Mad" addition. Is it an adjective that anyone is familiar with? (in game) Mad bomber is very different from a bomb: The Mad Bomber (or Vector) is typically a neutrally aligned player who, once a Night, can put a "bomb" on a player (or, depending on the color, infects a player with a disease). The Bomber wins, exclusive to any other faction, when the number of living "bombed" players are in the majority. This does not usually involve any regular Nightkills. It can, however, result in a Total Party Kill, in that the "bomber" can detonate his bombs if he survives to endgame, killing the "bombed" players. The win condition is exclusive, and precludes other factions from surviving / winning. Also known as "win stealers". They do not actually remove anyone from the game as it's going on; they steal the win at endgame, if their win condition is met. Some variants on this include: 1. Having a counter-role that can remove Bombs or give a player permanent immunity. 2. Making the bombing process visible. 3. Setting a threshhold number of tagged / bombed victims, such that the Mad Bomber cannot win if the number of players drops below his threshhold. from: mafiagameswiki.com/mafiaWiki/Mad_bomber
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Post by Dirx on May 2, 2011 20:07:17 GMT -5
I'm guessing a Bomber works like a Bomb (although I am reading many variations of a "bomb" ) I'm not familiar with the "Mad" addition. Is it an adjective that anyone is familiar with? (in game) A Mad Bomber typically "tags" other players, usually as a Night action. In some versions, a player will know that he's been tagged. Other times, there's no indication. Once the Bomber reaches a certain number of tagged players (X% of living players, all living players, X players, etc), he wins. Mad Bombers are always* a 3rd party or PFK player (ie, neither Town nor Scum). (3rd party is usually reserved for players that are neither Town nor Scum, and whose wincons don't interfere with other players' wincons. A survivor is the best example--he and another faction can both win. A PFK = Playing For Keeps; this term usually refers to players that are neither Town nor Scum, and whose wincons supercede any others. If such a player wins, Town and Scum both lose.) *I suppose you could have one be Town or Scum, but I'm not sure how that'd actually work.
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Post by Dirx on May 2, 2011 20:08:01 GMT -5
Dammit, I hate that you can't see other posts when you preview.
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Post by LightFoot on May 2, 2011 20:15:24 GMT -5
@ ED Thank you for yet another link. there are many aren't there Wouldn't that make the Mad Bomber a 3rd party of sorts, therefore not the kind anyone wants to keep? And I'm guessing probaby disguised as TOWN. One with SCUM knowledge could/would unbalance the game? Or is my inexperience showing
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Post by LightFoot on May 2, 2011 20:16:51 GMT -5
@ Dirx ME too!
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 2, 2011 20:32:02 GMT -5
I'm guessing a Bomber works like a Bomb (although I am reading many variations of a "bomb" ) I'm not familiar with the "Mad" addition. Is it an adjective that anyone is familiar with? (in game) A Mad Bomber typically "tags" other players, usually as a Night action. In some versions, a player will know that he's been tagged. Other times, there's no indication. Once the Bomber reaches a certain number of tagged players (X% of living players, all living players, X players, etc), he wins. Mad Bombers are always* a 3rd party or PFK player (ie, neither Town nor Scum). (3rd party is usually reserved for players that are neither Town nor Scum, and whose wincons don't interfere with other players' wincons. A survivor is the best example--he and another faction can both win. A PFK = Playing For Keeps; this term usually refers to players that are neither Town nor Scum, and whose wincons supercede any others. If such a player wins, Town and Scum both lose.) *I suppose you could have one be Town or Scum, but I'm not sure how that'd actually work. when a 'tagged' player is lynched or NKd, do they get removed from the list for threshold calculation? Roles will be drawn from the following list. There may be some role duplication, and any variant of any role is possible, from the straightforward to non-standard developments of the Mod's. i think SiSC really wants us to feel like we're in Wonderland by stating that the roles MAY be in play. how does the point system work for balancing the game? can anyone give a guess how many Scum there might be based on the roles (even if the roles may not all be in play)? is it possible to have more than one PFK?
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Post by Paranoia on May 2, 2011 21:20:05 GMT -5
when a 'tagged' player is lynched or NKd, do they get removed from the list for threshold calculation? If you mean for the Mad bomber's wincon, I believe they do.The point system is a mysterious thing to me which I'd like explained in detail myself.
Also no not really - however I would venture to guess from numbers that there are 5 scum in play, or a 4 man scum team and a traitor. Or or or ... I could go on speculating on what the scum team contains forever. I would however suspect they have a roleblocker and a godfather, as well as some sort of investigative role of their own. Beyond that noooo cluuuuue.
Also I believe it's possible to have more than one pfk. I just can't remember a game here that has had more than one in the game at a time.
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Post by Dirx on May 2, 2011 21:26:17 GMT -5
when a 'tagged' player is lynched or NKd, do they get removed from the list for threshold calculation? Usually yes, but depending on the setup and the preferences for the mod, it's possible that they still count. But I think we're starting to get too bogged down in the mechanics of how various roles work. We can always discuss them again if/when they crop up. We have 22 players to start with, which is a fairly big game, so I'm guessing 4 or 5 scum, and probably both a 3rd party and a PFK. A role list is best used later in the game, when we have lots of Night actions, death reveals, and claims (both verified and not). The data can be compared to the list of roles, and judgements can be made about the veracity of players' statements. However, the posted list of roles is pretty basic, and when you consider that all kinds of possible variations are fair game, then we're at a point where we can't predict too much about what we've got yet, and can't use the list too much even in the above scenario. We can at least rule out some claims (mason, for example, is not listed), but many other potential fake claims can be shoehorned into the various roles posted. The best course of action--as is always the case--is to watch players carefully and determine if their actions are scummy. I love to use mechanics and numbers to catch scum--it's like a great little logic puzzle--but that's just not always possible.
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Post by Dirx on May 2, 2011 21:34:12 GMT -5
The point system is a mysterious thing to me which I'd like explained in detail myself. If you really want to know, look here: wiki.flyingcowofdoom.com/mafiaWiki/JSexton_PointsBut my advice? Ignore it. Completely. They're useful for balancing a game, but they're useless to anyone without a complete picture of the game and all the roles in it. We know nothing about what roles are in the game except what's in our own Role PMs, and what we can guess at from the possible roles listed. By the time we know enough about the setup to be able to make guesses based on the points, it will be too late for the tactic to be of any real significance.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on May 3, 2011 0:51:14 GMT -5
I agree that the mechanics don't leave much for discussion. I was thinking about trying to figure out which roles might have which alignment but then I thought that wouldn't be very enlightening. There are so many characters in the Wonderland universe--major, minor, and not-in-the-books/adaptations-but-still-hypothetically-possible--that I wouldn't know where to start in guessing what characters are in the game. And even then, any mod should be able to give any role to any character (Alice as a serial killer? The Jabberwocky as the Town Doc? Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee on opposite factions? Hells yes, easy as pie). It's just not worth trying to guess what is what; instead I just try to analyze any claims and see if they make sense from a gameplay point of view. And let's not forget what LOST has taught us. Even in a straightforward canon, we can't take names at face value. As far as wonderland goes, it's been a while for me, but there are a few paradoxes and conundrums featured in it, yes? It would seem Memento is more straightforward than Wonderland then.
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Post by BillMc on May 3, 2011 4:54:00 GMT -5
There are so many characters in the Wonderland universe--major, minor, and not-in-the-books/adaptations-but-still-hypothetically-possible--that I wouldn't know where to start in guessing what characters are in the game. And even then, any mod should be able to give any role to any character (Alice as a serial killer? The Jabberwocky as the Town Doc? Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee on opposite factions? Hells yes, easy as pie). It's just not worth trying to guess what is what; instead I just try to analyze any claims and see if they make sense from a gameplay point of view. The thought of Alice as a serial killer makes me laugh - massacring the vanilla playing cards -- kinda reminds me of JC Serial Killer in the Bastard Mafia game on Giraffe. Yeah, I'm rather curious about this as well. There was an eavesdropper* in the Ragnarok game, which was interesting, and with hindsight, the clues were damn incriminating, though no one noticed until it was too late. Your guess is right--it generated a lot of confusion, and very little useful results (though it had the potential to be incredibly powerful for Town). Well I was the eavesdropper, and hated the the role. There was really only one snippet that was incriminating -- where if Town had actually given any credence to the snippets I was posting, we might have caught Peeker OOG --- anyone heard from Peeker?
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Post by septimus on May 3, 2011 4:55:31 GMT -5
Is the thread "Who ARE You? -- Unspoiled Wonderland Discussion" forbidden to players?
(I assumed it is forbidden, but it seems good to be explicit.)
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Post by BillMc on May 3, 2011 4:56:21 GMT -5
It would seem Memento is more straightforward than Wonderland then. Inception Mafia anyone? A game within a game within a game
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Post by ace093 on May 3, 2011 6:53:55 GMT -5
that eavesdropper sounds interesting...... i will have more time this time to analyze the clues and play so i hope i am able to help find all the scum !
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Post by CatInASuit on May 3, 2011 6:54:03 GMT -5
The thought of Alice as a serial killer makes me laugh - massacring the vanilla playing cards -- kinda reminds me of JC Serial Killer in the Bastard Mafia game on Giraffe. American McGee's Alice anyone?
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Post by CatInASuit on May 3, 2011 7:03:24 GMT -5
Let's see.
Day 1 random voting, blah, blah, blah
Special Ed being nasty to a newbie, blah, blah, blah
Captain Pinkies not being around until Day 3, blah, blah, blah
Someone claiming vanilla, blah, blah, blah
So what else have I missed for Day 1?
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Post by ace093 on May 3, 2011 7:05:14 GMT -5
with there being 22 roles there will probably be 5 or maybe 6 scum in the past game i played there was only 4 as there was a low number of players. but it seems as tough there will be lots of twists in this game as there are many roles and powers to be determined... gl to us all....
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Post by BillMc on May 3, 2011 7:16:52 GMT -5
The thought of Alice as a serial killer makes me laugh - massacring the vanilla playing cards -- kinda reminds me of JC Serial Killer in the Bastard Mafia game on Giraffe. American McGee's Alice anyone? Ooo - I hadn't noticed that -- that will pass a few hours after I finish Portal2
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Post by metallicsquink on May 3, 2011 7:44:45 GMT -5
Let's see. Day 1 random voting, blah, blah, blah Special Ed being nasty to a newbie, blah, blah, blah Captain Pinkies not being around until Day 3, blah, blah, blah Someone claiming vanilla, blah, blah, blah So what else have I missed for Day 1? Someone claimed vanilla already? I must have missed it because surely I would have voted for that person.
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Post by metallicsquink on May 3, 2011 7:47:04 GMT -5
@ ED Thank you for yet another link. there are many aren't there Wouldn't that make the Mad Bomber a 3rd party of sorts, therefore not the kind anyone wants to keep? And I'm guessing probaby disguised as TOWN. One with SCUM knowledge could/would unbalance the game? Or is my inexperience showing I don't know if "disguised" is the right word. The Mad Bomber/third party is neither town nor scum. If someone investigated a third party, they would get a "third party" result. And a Mad Bomber is not someone you want to keep around since in the games I've played with a Bomber, that person was a win stealer.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on May 3, 2011 8:13:27 GMT -5
Ugh. I hate this board and quoting :
OOG
1. Inception Mafia : Didn't we play this one already?
Oh wait, I had a dream that we did.
2. Somone else still hasn't finished Portal 2? Don't get me started on this issue, Amazon apparently has no clue what a PRE order means.
I got the game a week after someone who didn't pre-order.
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Post by CatInASuit on May 3, 2011 8:15:27 GMT -5
Someone claimed vanilla already? I must have missed it because surely I would have voted for that person. Not yet, but I'm sure its only a matter of time. It's usually Pleonast or Idle Thoughts and last game but one BillMc did it as well. Thinking about it, BillMc any reason for not claiming up front again this time?
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Post by BillMc on May 3, 2011 8:25:17 GMT -5
Thinking about it, BillMc any reason for not claiming up front again this time? Given the amount of crap I got for trying something completely different didn't work --- tho you did make it to D7 as my sub. If folk are going to follow bad tradition and kill me off early just coz - beady eye on Storyteller - then so be it.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on May 3, 2011 8:27:10 GMT -5
It's usually Pleonast or Idle Thoughts and last game but one BillMc did it as well. Pleonast isn't in this game. I don't expect that to stop him from claiming though.
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Post by CatInASuit on May 3, 2011 9:17:43 GMT -5
Also looking at the Role List, we have the possiblility of a Lie Detector or variant playing. With that in mind: $Alignment = "Town" why are we using PHP, can't we use Java instead. private static final String sAlignment ="Town";
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Post by guiri on May 3, 2011 9:31:01 GMT -5
I'm here too. Also looking at the Role List, we have the possiblility of a Lie Detector or variant playing. With that in mind: $Alignment = "Town" @ CIAS, I don't understand what you say about PHP and Java but are you suggesting we make a statement about our alignment so a possible lie detector can check whether it's true or not? $Alignment = "Town"
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