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Post by CatInASuit on May 6, 2011 6:39:26 GMT -5
@paranoia: Please share your thoughts with us on the current situation of Day 1.
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Post by special on May 6, 2011 6:42:36 GMT -5
At the time that I posted my comment in post 77, I was debating about whether I should jump on the bandwagon or not. It seemed like it was a ploy to confuse the Lie Detector about who to test to see who was telling the truth (because in effect, they have probably a 6/22 chance of getting a third party or SCUM[I'm estimating that there are 6, but there could be more or less.]) Confirming a Town player is actually more important than finding a Scum or 3rd party player. I could show you the maths, but I've got to get ready for work. Others might be able to explain it to you. |
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Post by CatInASuit on May 6, 2011 6:48:49 GMT -5
I think CatInaSuit should have zero votes permanently. FTFY ;D |
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Post by ace093 on May 6, 2011 7:09:05 GMT -5
gm all i am going to say that i am town one more time in case anyone has misseed that... i can not be on a super dooper lot today as i am in charge of a community festival in my town today and most of tomorrow......
this is my third game as i have said before first two times i was scum and now i am just a plain old towns person but this role is much harder than scum role. i am going to get lynched for no good valid reason which SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!! people are wondering why i didnt claim opn the first day.. i am still new and trying to stay alive. im not sure what to say about my role i guess your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.... so once again I will say I am TOWN!!!!!
i am going to stick with my vote for the capt. everyone else has came on and spoken and introduced them selves and we have some knowledge of who you are claiming to be. but as for the Captain we dont know anything other than his name!!!
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Post by CatInASuit on May 6, 2011 7:09:36 GMT -5
I can respond to any post, as long as someone's talking to / about me in it. I wanted to get my post restriction out in the open as soon as possible so that people know exactly what I'm working with here. I don't see any point in hiding it. If there's a long debate about a particular person, for example, I don't want to not be able to get my point across because my name wouldn't be naturally mentioned otherwise. Then I will repeat my question from earlier, which I do not believe you have answered. @ HonestMoley: Why didn't you wait until tomorrow when, as you suggest, the fact that you had not picked up a final vote and had not posted would have been obvious? |
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Post by CatInASuit on May 6, 2011 7:16:53 GMT -5
@ace You are the lynch leader, by a significant amount actually. There are less than 36 hours remaining in the Day. Here, it is generally customary to fully claim your role (usually with your role PM quoted) before you go to the gallows. It helps us decide if we really wish to lynch you. It also allows us to better understand the game as we continue on. I'm not demanding that you full claim, and wouldn't suggest it quite yet. I just wanted you to be aware of how the game is played here and why. Others should be able to confirm that what I'm telling you is accurate. @ace903. I'll just quote what Special Ed said again as a suggestion of what to do. You have claimed you are town, that is fair enough, but then so has everyone else who has claimed. You were the only one to show any hesitancy in doing so, which appears to be the main reason as to why people are voting for you. I would suggest re-reading Ed's post above as consideration for your next action. |
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Post by JustBeingGinger on May 6, 2011 7:29:09 GMT -5
@ace You are the lynch leader, by a significant amount actually. There are less than 36 hours remaining in the Day. Here, it is generally customary to fully claim your role (usually with your role PM quoted) before you go to the gallows. It helps us decide if we really wish to lynch you. It also allows us to better understand the game as we continue on. I'm not demanding that you full claim, and wouldn't suggest it quite yet. I just wanted you to be aware of how the game is played here and why. Others should be able to confirm that what I'm telling you is accurate. @ace903. I'll just quote what Special Ed said again as a suggestion of what to do. You have claimed you are town, that is fair enough, but then so has everyone else who has claimed. You were the only one to show any hesitancy in doing so, which appears to be the main reason as to why people are voting for you. I would suggest re-reading Ed's post above as consideration for your next action. I am just throwing this out there. So say what if ACE was a power role such as the DOC or the COP, do we really want her to come out and claim that type of role. That will place a target on her head and it does not benefit town at all. There are two people that have not posted their alignment at all, Paranoia and Pinkies and yet they are not really in question here? I don't know if ACE is town, scum or 3rd party. I am not willing to lynch her because she has not claimed her role in full. If she is vanilla, I would think that she would listen to the veterans and claim. If she is a power role, why would town want her to claim? |
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 6, 2011 7:44:30 GMT -5
I think CatInaSuit should have zero votes permanently. FTFY ;D hey! methinks someone is twisting my words.  |
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 6, 2011 7:50:19 GMT -5
I am just throwing this out there. So say what if ACE was a power role such as the DOC or the COP, do we really want her to come out and claim that type of role. That will place a target on her head and it does not benefit town at all. if Ace is the COP or DOC and doesn't claim she will be lost anyway. if she claims she can be saved. |
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Post by special on May 6, 2011 7:49:42 GMT -5
I am just throwing this out there. So say what if ACE was a power role such as the DOC or the COP, do we really want her to come out and claim that type of role. That will place a target on her head and it does not benefit town at all. Yes, we want her to claim ESPECIALLY if she's the Doc or the Cop. As to the benefit for the Town here it is in a nutshell: If we believe her, we won't lynch her. Yes, she'll have a target on her head, but she won't be dead. Keeping her secret but being dead does us no good whatsoever. |
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Post by storyteller0910 on May 6, 2011 7:52:09 GMT -5
ace, you really should role claim (that is, tell the Town your character name and at minimum the general thrust of your powers, if any).
If you die toDay, these things will be revealed anyway. Claim!
This Day has been kind of all over the place - befitting an Alice in Wonderland themed game! - and I'm going to need to do some re-reading now.
The Day ends in about 12 hours, yes?
Pinkies, you need to get in here and post something ASAP, at minimum a direct statement that you are Town (and what the hell, maybe a drink recipe. We don't mind). Come on, freaking play the game if you're playing the game!
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Post by CatInASuit on May 6, 2011 7:52:43 GMT -5
I am just throwing this out there. So say what if ACE was a power role such as the DOC or the COP, do we really want her to come out and claim that type of role. That will place a target on her head and it does not benefit town at all. There are two people that have not posted their alignment at all, Paranoia and Pinkies and yet they are not really in question here? I don't know if ACE is town, scum or 3rd party. I am not willing to lynch her because she has not claimed her role in full. If she is vanilla, I would think that she would listen to the veterans and claim. If she is a power role, why would town want her to claim? At this point in time, without a full claim, ace903 is very, very likely to be lynched. Very likely. If ace903 is a town power role and does not claim, she is likely to be lynched and the town loses that power role on Day 1. If ace903 claims, regardless of what role it is, it can be evaluated by those with a vote on her as to whether it is worth the risk of lynching the claimed role against the possibility that ace903 is scum. An alternative Lynch the Lurker on paranoia or Pinkies is lynching someone who may also be a town power role but has no chance of defending or explaining themselves. An outed power role on Day 1, while not good for the town, can also provide a focal point for other power roles to play off. The scum will have to decide whether it is worth going after the outed power role given that they may be protected or watched, which will waste an NK or give a scum away. |
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Post by storyteller0910 on May 6, 2011 7:58:04 GMT -5
An alternative Lynch the Lurker on paranoia or Pinkies is lynching someone who may also be a town power role but has no chance of defending or explaining themselves. While I agree with the above in principle, the problem of players who lurk to massive extremes is becoming a significant one. How would you handle paranoia and Pinkies, assuming they continue to be nonparticipatory? |
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Post by JustBeingGinger on May 6, 2011 8:08:14 GMT -5
I am just throwing this out there. So say what if ACE was a power role such as the DOC or the COP, do we really want her to come out and claim that type of role. That will place a target on her head and it does not benefit town at all. There are two people that have not posted their alignment at all, Paranoia and Pinkies and yet they are not really in question here? I don't know if ACE is town, scum or 3rd party. I am not willing to lynch her because she has not claimed her role in full. If she is vanilla, I would think that she would listen to the veterans and claim. If she is a power role, why would town want her to claim? At this point in time, without a full claim, ace903 is very, very likely to be lynched. Very likely. If ace903 is a town power role and does not claim, she is likely to be lynched and the town loses that power role on Day 1. If ace903 claims, regardless of what role it is, it can be evaluated by those with a vote on her as to whether it is worth the risk of lynching the claimed role against the possibility that ace903 is scum. An alternative Lynch the Lurker on paranoia or Pinkies is lynching someone who may also be a town power role but has no chance of defending or explaining themselves. An outed power role on Day 1, while not good for the town, can also provide a focal point for other power roles to play off. The scum will have to decide whether it is worth going after the outed power role given that they may be protected or watched, which will waste an NK or give a scum away. Understood, I see both aspects of it. Claiming to prove and save yourself and becoming a target or not claiming to save yourself from a target and then be lynched. That is what is called a double edged sword. |
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Post by CatInASuit on May 6, 2011 8:15:50 GMT -5
An alternative Lynch the Lurker on paranoia or Pinkies is lynching someone who may also be a town power role but has no chance of defending or explaining themselves. While I agree with the above in principle, the problem of players who lurk to massive extremes is becoming a significant one. How would you handle paranoia and Pinkies, assuming they continue to be nonparticipatory? IIRC paranoia is not normally a lurker and tends to be fairly participatory in games. His silence on Day 1 speaks volumes. Pinkies, what to do with Pinkies  <oog rant> If someone is unable to play or they are just not going to bother then they should inform the GM and hopefully be subbed in or modkilled early on, preferably by End of Day 3 to give town a chance to know what roles have been lost and prevent Lynch or Lose becoming Lynch the Lurker and Lose. Yes, everyone has IRL issues that mean they may be absent for a while, that's what the absence thread is for. Continuous lurking to avoid playing whether scum or town is damaging to the game in general. If you are not going to participate, don't play. </oog rant> |
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 6, 2011 8:26:31 GMT -5
I am just throwing this out there. So say what if ACE was a power role such as the DOC or the COP, do we really want her to come out and claim that type of role. That will place a target on her head and it does not benefit town at all. Yes, we do want ace to claim her role, and no it does not matter if that paints a target on her head. As things stand she's going to be lynched anyway; and it's better for the Mafia to have to kill her than for the Town to lynch her. Besides, that puts a problem in front of the Mafia. Is there a Doc out there, and will that Doc protect her? It's always worthwhile forcing the non-Town elements to make early decisions, because that may create contradictions later. I subbed into a game once, 90 minutes before the close of Day 2. At that time I think I had a 5- or 6-vote lead in the lynch race. I claimed (I was a Mason). In the resulting scramble to find safe havens for votes, we lynched a Mafiate. It can be worthwhile claiming, because the resultant scramble can be mined for information later. @ace : Please claim soon. Town need the information. |
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Post by metallicsquink on May 6, 2011 9:46:56 GMT -5
I agree that Ace needs to claim. As for lynching the lurker, I don't think it is a good idea on Day 1. We definitely need to think about what to do with lurkers as the game progresses, though.
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Post by septimus on May 6, 2011 9:50:08 GMT -5
Unvote: guiriVote: ace093Repeating what others have said: Ace, you really need to claim truthfully now. Don't forget that if you're Town, you win if Town wins even if you're killed along the way. Since otherwise you're on your way to almost certain Lynch, it's especially important to claim if you have a Power role. If you do claim a Power role most of the votes will come off of you, but you've waited so long that I'll be asleep then and won't be able to Unvote. Frankly, you've waited so long I now guess you are scum, but Town doesn't need my help to Lynch you and, because of the sleep/timezone issue, I'll remove my vote now in case you are a Town Power. Unvote: ace093My reasoning, explanations, and diction all seem to be quite different from the stereotypical Mafia player. In defense, I'll note that I've played the same way in five games (counting this one) and am Town in all five games; that I believe my voting strategy is correct; and that I do provide details about whom I find scummy whether I cast a vote for them or not. Yet I get responses like Yeah, the bizarre desire for your vote to be relevant. That's what I was getting at, and I hoped I was wrong. Always vote for whom you think is most scummy. If you think multiple players are equally scummy, then sure, go ahead and put your vote where you feel it will do the most good. But otherwise, I think it's terrible to vote for a second-choice target because you think it will be "more relevant." Votes are records of suspicion, and do no good when they don't actually match your suspicion. (We don't have time so close to Lynch deadline to get into epistemology and metaphysics. I will mention that to call my desire for my vote to be relevant "bizarre" strikes me as ... bizarre.) I do see that the final vote tally, showing also retracted votes, is a useful summary and any discussion of suspicion that doesn't include a vote can get lost. So... Vote: ParanoiaLurking is a good place for scum to hide. Frankly, I believe Lynch the Lurker has other merits as a voting tactic. I'd be happy to Lynch Paranoia if Ace claims a Power role but, as I said, will probably be asleep at Lynch deadline. Anyway, I want to go on record about another Lurker. Unvote: ParanoiaVote: Captain PinkiesA point in Pinkies' favor is that in the games I've seen he's silent when he's a Townie and talkative when he's Scum! Still I'd be happy with a Lynch the Lurker movement against Pinkies except I have a better candidate: Unvote: Captain PinkiesVote: guiriI still do not understand guiri's vote to Lynch me. He constantly campaigned against me in the Scooby Doo game (where I was Town and he wasn't). AFAICT his basic complaint is similar to Dirx's: I don't follow a stereotype. When I said his vote was OMGUS I referred to my post #221 in which I expressed annoyance that he seems happy to vote me in every Mafia game until I fulfill his desire for how the stereotypical player should play. The game guiri accepts my style will probably be the game where I finally am Mafia!! By now I've voted for five players. In each case, the actual chance that they are non-Town is probably 35-40%. (That says little; I could pick one of you at random and the chance would be 30% or so.) I'm really not sure if guiri's faulty reasoning is a scum-tell or just a reaction to my style. But even in the latter case, I expect him to campaign against me until one of us is Dead. His campaign is anti-Town.
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Post by Sister Coyote on May 6, 2011 10:12:23 GMT -5
Current Vote Count
ace093 (8,8): Special Ed [80], gnarlycharlie [97], storyteller0910 [115], metallicsquink [127], Archangel [144], fluiddruid [145], LightFoot [173], Meeko [250]
Paranoia (2,2): JustBeingGinger [237], colby11 [257]
Archangel (1,2): Honest Moley [179], CatInaSuit [199]
BillMc (1,1): Suburban Plankton [93]
Captain Pinkies (1,1): ace093 [227]
septimus (1,1): guiri [233]
guiri (1,1): septimus [234]
Honest Moley (1,1): Rysto [243]
colby11 (0,1): CatInaSuit [110,199]
CatInaSuit (1,1): colby11 [102,168], septimus [206,234]
Fluiddruid (0,1): JustBeingGinger [153,160]
storyteller0910 (0,1): Archangel [129, 144]
Suburban Plankton (0,1): metallicsquink [111,127]
gnarlycharlie (0,1): Suburban Plankton [79,93]
With these votes, ace093 will be lynched.
Breakdown:
person with votes (number of votes, max number of votes): person voting for [post voted in, post unvoted]
In the event of a tie, the player who was voted for first during the Day (even if that vote has subsequently been removed) will be marked with an asterisk.
ToDay will end in slightly less than 10 hours
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 6, 2011 10:20:44 GMT -5
Unvote: guiriVote: ace093Repeating what others have said: Ace, you really need to claim truthfully now. Don't forget that if you're Town, you win if Town wins even if you're killed along the way. Since otherwise you're on your way to almost certain Lynch, it's especially important to claim if you have a Power role. If you do claim a Power role most of the votes will come off of you, but you've waited so long that I'll be asleep then and won't be able to Unvote. Frankly, you've waited so long I now guess you are scum, but Town doesn't need my help to Lynch you and, because of the sleep/timezone issue, I'll remove my vote now in case you are a Town Power. Unvote: ace093My reasoning, explanations, and diction all seem to be quite different from the stereotypical Mafia player. In defense, I'll note that I've played the same way in five games (counting this one) and am Town in all five games; that I believe my voting strategy is correct; and that I do provide details about whom I find scummy whether I cast a vote for them or not. Yet I get responses like Yeah, the bizarre desire for your vote to be relevant. That's what I was getting at, and I hoped I was wrong. Always vote for whom you think is most scummy. If you think multiple players are equally scummy, then sure, go ahead and put your vote where you feel it will do the most good. But otherwise, I think it's terrible to vote for a second-choice target because you think it will be "more relevant." Votes are records of suspicion, and do no good when they don't actually match your suspicion. (We don't have time so close to Lynch deadline to get into epistemology and metaphysics. I will mention that to call my desire for my vote to be relevant "bizarre" strikes me as ... bizarre.) I do see that the final vote tally, showing also retracted votes, is a useful summary and any discussion of suspicion that doesn't include a vote can get lost. So... Vote: ParanoiaLurking is a good place for scum to hide. Frankly, I believe Lynch the Lurker has other merits as a voting tactic. I'd be happy to Lynch Paranoia if Ace claims a Power role but, as I said, will probably be asleep at Lynch deadline. Anyway, I want to go on record about another Lurker. Unvote: ParanoiaVote: Captain PinkiesA point in Pinkies' favor is that in the games I've seen he's silent when he's a Townie and talkative when he's Scum! Still I'd be happy with a Lynch the Lurker movement against Pinkies except I have a better candidate: Unvote: Captain PinkiesVote: guiriI still do not understand guiri's vote to Lynch me. He constantly campaigned against me in the Scooby Doo game (where I was Town and he wasn't). AFAICT his basic complaint is similar to Dirx's: I don't follow a stereotype. When I said his vote was OMGUS I referred to my post #221 in which I expressed annoyance that he seems happy to vote me in every Mafia game until I fulfill his desire for how the stereotypical player should play. The game guiri accepts my style will probably be the game where I finally am Mafia!! By now I've voted for five players. In each case, the actual chance that they are non-Town is probably 35-40%. (That says little; I could pick one of you at random and the chance would be 30% or so.) I'm really not sure if guiri's faulty reasoning is a scum-tell or just a reaction to my style. But even in the latter case, I expect him to campaign against me until one of us is Dead. His campaign is anti-Town. i tempted to switch my vote to you for putting stress on my spreadsheet.  |
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 6, 2011 10:23:52 GMT -5
Current Vote Countace093 (8,8): Special Ed [80], gnarlycharlie [97], storyteller0910 [115], metallicsquink [127], Archangel [144], fluiddruid [145], LightFoot [173], Meeko [250] Paranoia (2,2): JustBeingGinger [237], colby11 [257] Archangel (1,2): Honest Moley [179], CatInaSuit [199] BillMc (1,1): Suburban Plankton [93] Captain Pinkies (1,1): ace093 [227] septimus (1,1): guiri [233] guiri (1,1): septimus [234] Honest Moley (1,1): Rysto [243] colby11 (0,1): CatInaSuit [110,199]CatInaSuit (1,1): colby11 [102,168], septimus [206,234]Fluiddruid (0,1): JustBeingGinger [153,160]storyteller0910 (0,1): Archangel [129, 144]Suburban Plankton (0,1): metallicsquink [111,127]gnarlycharlie (0,1): Suburban Plankton [79,93]With these votes, ace093 will be lynched. Breakdown: person with votes (number of votes, max number of votes): person voting for [post voted in, post unvoted] In the event of a tie, the player who was voted for first during the Day (even if that vote has subsequently been removed) will be marked with an asterisk. ToDay will end in slightly less than 10 hours hey! you didn't count all of Septimus' votes and unvotes. he should get penalty votes for that.  |
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 6, 2011 10:25:05 GMT -5
Bill's statement is also impossible to evaluate before Friday. The Lie Detector role is usually a night action - your comment would seem to imply that you knew it is a Day action -- or were you just trying to start a bandwagon on me since I said I wasn't going to be around? I am Town. You did say that you weren't going to be around, but you said it on Tuesday morning. I figured there was ample time for you to pop back into the thread before you were gone, but perhaps I was mistaken. How was France? Unvote: BillMc You are the $Number of $Suits.You're not really sure what the heck is going on, but you're painting the roses red so your head doesn't get cut off. You're Vanilla $Alignment, and have no power other than your vote. (unless you're Scum, of course. Then it's your vote and the ability to Night Kill). IF $Alignment = "Town": You win so long as all threats to Town are eliminated. IF $Alignment = "Scum": You win when Scum control the lynch. Since this isn't a Gastard game, the mod supplied sample PM needs to be truthful -- so for any value of $number and any $suit should be Vanilla. Interesting theory... Vote: Captain Pinkies I know we have a mechanism for dealing with non-participants, and maybe this is purely a meta-game reason, but I'm really tired of discussing whether or not we should lynch Pinkies again for non-participation. |
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Post by Sister Coyote on May 6, 2011 10:25:25 GMT -5
hey! you didn't count all of Septimus' votes and unvotes. he should get penalty votes for that.  No comment |
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Post by Sister Coyote on May 6, 2011 10:26:56 GMT -5
Dearest Mod, have any roles or rules been amended, even temporarily, since the start of the game. |
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 6, 2011 10:31:13 GMT -5
i tempted to switch my vote to you for putting stress on my spreadsheet. I'm getting flashbacks to Renata in the Scooby Doo game... |
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 6, 2011 10:36:31 GMT -5
CatInaSuit has a vote again. ;D
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Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
Posts: 1,077
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 6, 2011 11:04:18 GMT -5
Having finished Second Read.
I am against lynching ace093. I do not think declining to make a statement of Town allegiance should be a hanging offence, even in a game with a possible Lie Detector. In any case, I note that she has made some statement of alignment. Refusing to follow the herd should not be a reason for lynching.
Neither am I really keen on lynching either Captain Pinkies or Paranoia. Having played in a game where the Day 1 lynch had not posted at all that Day, it caused problems for most of the rest of the game, not least because of the herd behaviour of Day 1 voters resulted in a unanimous or near-unanimous lynch. There was no data to mine.
The time to worry about lurkers is the time when the game shifts from early game to mid game, which will (I anticipate) be Day 3 or so. We can't leave it too late, lest the lurker be a Townie.
I'm not convinced that the mechanism for encouraging participation is firm enough. It's easy to make one or two posts in a Day and completely avoid the buildup of Final Votes. I think the criteria for avoiding Final Votes, or the punishment should you receive multiple FVs, or both, needs to escalate with previous offences in the same game.
Having waffled about who I'm not going to vote for (at least not Today), who will I vote for?
Good question. I need to reread a few posts (or maybe a lot, if my initial suspicions don't pan out). Back later.
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Post by Paranoia on May 6, 2011 13:16:05 GMT -5
Bluuuugh.
So hi I'm semi-backish and noticed that Ace is the vote leader so I took a look at his posts.
I gotta say I am not feeling that wagon in the slightest based on Ace's contributions. Feels like a town who's flipping the fuck out under pressure.
Um. Regarding the two votes on me - has either Ginger or colby bothered to push from ace onto me because I would think if they didn't feel the Ace wagon then they would be trying to get someone they thought was scum/had a shot of being scum lynched instead.
Or I could just read back for those votes.
@suburban Plankton - Regarding your vote on bill regarding his absence and his impossible to evaluate statement - Assuming bill was back today and there was suddenly a wagon on him it gets almost impossible to shift/reverse all those votes in the leadup to deadline so as it stood had a wagon started on bill when he wasn't around to defend it'd linger around like a particularly nasty stench until day end.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 6, 2011 13:25:46 GMT -5
i tempted to switch my vote to you for putting stress on my spreadsheet. I'm getting flashbacks to Renata in the Scooby Doo game... me too. she broke my spreadsheets. the only reason i let it go was because she was Town. |
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Post by JustBeingGinger on May 6, 2011 13:49:18 GMT -5
Bluuuugh. So hi I'm semi-backish and noticed that Ace is the vote leader so I took a look at his posts. I gotta say I am not feeling that wagon in the slightest based on Ace's contributions. Feels like a town who's flipping the fuck out under pressure. Um. Regarding the two votes on me - has either Ginger or colby bothered to push from ace onto me because I would think if they didn't feel the Ace wagon then they would be trying to get someone they thought was scum/had a shot of being scum lynched instead. My vote for you was based upon two things the fact that you have not claimed your alignment and the fact that you have not posted much. Now this is normal behavior from Pinkies but not from you. I could not find a post where you said you were going to be away, I might of missed it. So if that is the case welcome back. Are you going to claim your alignment? I do not think that ACE is scum. I really think it is a newbie that is not sure what to do. |
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