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Post by metallicsquink on May 18, 2011 8:44:06 GMT -5
I'm going to hold off on voting BillMc for now because I do want to see what he has to say about this. Where I'm going is drawing you scummy folks out from the woodwork. I'm pretty sure Meeko is scum, and you are doing defending him rather strongly. Either you know he is being truthful - or know he is lying. So here's a simple question/statement for both Meeko Please state "My vote has been bought by a player unknown to me" If its a fake vote then you are a liar, if it is a scum ploy - you are a liar. And for the record Squink, I think you are as scummy as Meeko I would like to see the evidence where I am defending meeko "strongly." And as you may have overlooked, Moley is actually voting you for your vote on meeko. That's seems like a pretty strong defense as well and yet he's not on your scum list above. So why am I scum and not Moley?
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Post by metallicsquink on May 18, 2011 8:50:01 GMT -5
Maybe it’s just me, but this board seems to be moving very slowly (meaning, scum are not being found – not even strong possible scum candidates). So, even though it’s earlier than I’d like, and I don’t have a super strong argument, I’m going to vote: Vote: Bill MC (bleached) Reasons (And I apologize in advance for those who don’t like “meta-gaming”): I’ve only played 2 games with Bill MC, but his scum hunting skills seem to be “legendary”. So much so, that he often gets voted off early in games because scum do not want him around hunting them. So, it started pinging me slightly when he was going after fluiddruid on D2 after her claim. If he’s so good at finding scum, why was he going after a 3rd party (who sounded like she was going to cooperate with town) instead of scum hunting? It’s day 3 and he’s still here (meaning, scum have not killed him yet). Must suck to be so good that you either get voted off right away by scum, or start looking suspicious when you don’t get voted off. Your comment that the Politician role is usually scum – two players (CIAS and Metallicsquink) questioned this and stated they had played in games where the politician is town. And opinions seem to differ on whether our Politician is scum or town, but I’m leaning toward town (since the votes have been going against players who have garnered some suspicion). Maybe the majority of the games you’ve played it’s been a scum role, but you’re a good enough player not to make assumptions like that. Your comment in post 72: It seems more likely that the Scum would have taken Ed out than Colby. For the scum to have chosen Colby over Ed that Scum would have had had to believe the Colby represented more of threat than Ed -- and since Colby flipped Vanilla, that was not the case This doesn’t really make sense to me. Scum don’t know if either Ed or Colby are a power or vanilla until they’re dead and it’s announced by the mod. You’re saying that since Colby flipped vanilla, it’s more likely scum voted Ed, as if scum knew ahead of time that Ed was a power role. Saying that because Colby flipped vanilla, it’s more likely Scum killed Colby seems like backward logic to me. Lastly, I think your vote on Meeko is weak. I’m not sure what I think about meeko, but voting for someone for low-participation, when they’ve stated it’s because they are busy with work, seems like a cop out. And the Colby comment on the end of his PM doesn’t seem *that* suspicious to me. I'm little bit lost right now, need to read to catch up, IRL busy this week, but I don't like a bandwagon building on Bill. There was no NK the first night. It seems likely to me that scum tried to kill Bill, and someone, knowing his reputation, protected him. So until I can catch up, Vote MeekoBut I will be back this afternoon to read everything and make a more informed decision then. Do you have any reasons for voting meeko? Or are you just trying to save BillMc? Also, you are making quite an assumption regarding BillMc. Do you know something that we don't? This vote does nothing to diminish my suspicions of you from the past two Days. You are throwing out a vote without any support. You are saying a bandwagon is building on BillMc when he only has two votes so calling it a bandwagon seems premature (and frankly, a bit panicky). vote Archangel
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Post by BillMc on May 18, 2011 8:57:57 GMT -5
@squink.
Care to categorically state that you are not scum?
If we have a lie detector, they can put that statement to the test?
As for Moley, I believe he is town, tho is vote on me is misguided.
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Post by metallicsquink on May 18, 2011 9:04:38 GMT -5
@squink. Care to categorically state that you are not scum? If we have a lie detector, they can put that statement to the test? As for Moley, I believe he is town, tho is vote on me is misguided. I am not scum. I am town (as I stated on Day 1).
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Post by metallicsquink on May 18, 2011 9:07:41 GMT -5
@squink. Care to categorically state that you are not scum? If we have a lie detector, they can put that statement to the test? As for Moley, I believe he is town, tho is vote on me is misguided. I'm putting this is another post so someone doesn't accuse me of trying to misguide the lie detector. My problem with your logic is that it is based on your assumptions, i.e., you are looking at me assuming I am scum and so of course whatever I say is going to look scummy. It seems to me that you would read what I say and THEN decide if you think I'm scum. You are doing the same for Moley except assuming he is town.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 18, 2011 10:05:23 GMT -5
Sorry for my low participation Today; work has shifted back into 'busy' mode and we're down to a single working computer at home so I can't commandeer it all night like I'm used to... Ive only skimmed the past couple pages of posts, but here are a few things that are standing out to me so far Today. Meeko knew colby was dead when he edited his PM if it was a fake PM. It seems to me that clever scum could be trying to build cred for each other. Meeko, the politician, and whoever killed colby could all be scum, with colby chosen for target just to give cred to the remainder of this trio when one of them flips. It's certainly possible that all three of them could be Scum, but I generally find that the more people that need to be involved in a Scum scheme in order for it to work, the less likely it is to actually have happened. I think the much more likely scenario ere is that Meeko is telling the truth about his PM and his vote on colby. Which says nothing at all about Meeko's alignment. If the Politician is Scum, then it strongly suggests that Meeko would be Town, but we have no evidence whatsoever to suggest the Politician's alignment at this time, so we can't use that to judge Meeko. Maybe it’s just me, but this board seems to be moving very slowly (meaning, scum are not being found – not even strong possible scum candidates). So, even though it’s earlier than I’d like, and I don’t have a super strong argument, I’m going to vote: Vote: Bill MC Reasons (And I apologize in advance for those who don’t like “meta-gaming”): I’ve only played 2 games with Bill MC, but his scum hunting skills seem to be “legendary”. So much so, that he often gets voted off early in games because scum do not want him around hunting them. So, it started pinging me slightly when he was going after fluiddruid on D2 after her claim. If he’s so good at finding scum, why was he going after a 3rd party (who sounded like she was going to cooperate with town) instead of scum hunting? It’s day 3 and he’s still here (meaning, scum have not killed him yet). Must suck to be so good that you either get voted off right away by scum, or start looking suspicious when you don’t get voted off. I don't have a big problem with 'meta-gaming' in general, but I don't like it when it is the sole reason behind a vote. And this vote has no basis in this game whatsoever. There are quite a few reasons why Bill could have survived the first two Nights besides 'he's Scum'. I'm going to hold off on voting BillMc for now because I do want to see what he has to say about this. Where I'm going is drawing you scummy folks out from the woodwork. I'm pretty sure Meeko is scum, and you are doing defending him rather strongly. Either you know he is being truthful - or know he is lying. So here's a simple question/statement for both Meeko Please state "My vote has been bought by a player unknown to me" If its a fake vote then you are a liar, if it is a scum ploy - you are a liar. And for the record Squink, I think you are as scummy as Meeko @squink. Care to categorically state that you are not scum? If we have a lie detector, they can put that statement to the test? As for Moley, I believe he is town, tho is vote on me is misguided. Bill, why the sudden interest in people making statements for the Lie Detector again? Didn't we all cover this ground on Day 1? I'll admit that I don't have any solid suspicions right now. I believe Meeko's claim that his vote was bought (and I don't think the wording is significant), but I don't think that necessarily makes him Town. I don't like Bill's vote on Meeko, or his reasoning regarding the colby/Ed killings, but I'm not ready to vote for him at this point. I hope to be able to reread today and have something solid by this evening.
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Post by Ma'at on May 18, 2011 10:43:28 GMT -5
@suburban PlanktonMaybe when you have more time you can go back and reread the whole second half of my argument regarding my vote for Bill. I discuss how I don’t agree with his logic regarding Colby/Ed, and his weak vote on Meeko (gee, the exact same things you mention in your post). Yes, the first part of my post was meta gaming, but the second half was about his actions in this game, so meta gaming wasn’t the “sole reason” behind my vote. So there
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 18, 2011 11:19:12 GMT -5
@suburban PlanktonMaybe when you have more time you can go back and reread the whole second half of my argument regarding my vote for Bill. I discuss how I don’t agree with his logic regarding Colby/Ed, and his weak vote on Meeko (gee, the exact same things you mention in your post). Yes, the first part of my post was meta gaming, but the second half was about his actions in this game, so meta gaming wasn’t the “sole reason” behind my vote. So there You're right; my accusation there was unfounded. I don't know why, but I was thinking that the second part of your post was directed at someone else. I stand corrected.
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Post by Ma'at on May 18, 2011 11:50:43 GMT -5
@gnarley
You’ve been unusually quiet toDay – what’s up? Where’s your spreadsheet? Have any suspicions beyond Archangel? What do you think about her worry for Bill and vote for Meeko?
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Post by JustBeingGinger on May 18, 2011 14:12:49 GMT -5
Here are my suspicions at the moment:
CatinASuit: I find her accusing me very contradictorily. She was suspicious of me for unvoting Fluidroid too quickly and then suspicious of me for not unvoting Pinkies at the moment he posted his vote PM. She is suspicious of me for changing my vote from Pinkies to Fluidroid at the end of Day 2 and states that SCUM would vote off someone that was 3rd party and that was willing to "work" with town to win.
My question to you CIAS is how did Fluidroid work with town in the time she was alive? Did she discuss who looked suspicious and would be good lynch candidates for her vote, NO. Did she post her vote on the Night thread during Night 2, No. So what makes you think that she was willing to work with town so much? She talked a good game at first but never backed it with actions.
Gnarly Where are you? enough said...
As for Meeko, I do see the point that Moley made that why choose someone died?
I will have to go through the cases on the others when I get home and I have somewhat peace and quiet. Can not concentrate at work...
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Post by BillMc on May 18, 2011 14:42:42 GMT -5
@ma'at & Plankton
Since you don't agree with my logic that the Scum most likely killed Ed, please share your thoughts/reasoning as to why you think the Scum would kill Colby rather than Ed.
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Post by Ma'at on May 18, 2011 15:03:41 GMT -5
@bill Mc I think either scenario seems equally likely. I don’t think we can say, “Because Ed flipped cop and Colby flipped vanilla, scum must have targeted Ed”, which seems to be the logic you’re using (scum aren’t going to know that Ed is the cop and Colby is vanilla until it’s announced by the mod, unless they have some sort of investigative power, in which case, then yes, I think it becomes much more likely that scum targeted Ed).
I didn’t see anything that said “power” in Ed’s or Colby’s posts, so to me seems like scum could have taken out either one (admittedly, I wasn’t looking for clues, and haven’t gone back and re-read, but if you see anything in the posts that points toward Ed being power and Colby being vanilla, I would be much more likely to buy that kind of reasoning).
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Post by Renata on May 18, 2011 15:44:28 GMT -5
Current Vote Count:
Meeko (3,3) BillMc [72] Guiri [108] Archangel [116] BillMc (2,2) Honest Moley [81] Ma’at [103] JustBeingGinger (1,1) CatInASuit [64] Metallic Squink (1,1) Septimus [112] Archangel (1,1) Metallic Squink [121] CatInASuit (0,1) Septimus [47 112] colby11 (1,1): Meeko [13]
With these votes, Meeko will be lynched.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 18, 2011 16:33:13 GMT -5
@ma'at & Plankton Since you don't agree with my logic that the Scum most likely killed Ed, please share your thoughts/reasoning as to why you think the Scum would kill Colby rather than Ed. I don't think the Scum necessarily killed colby and not Ed, and I never said any words to that effect. What I said was that I didn't like your reasoning: It seems more likely that the Scum would have taken Ed out than Colby. For the scum to have chosen Colby over Ed that Scum would have had had to believe the Colby represented more of threat than Ed -- and since Colby flipped Vanilla, that was not the case. You use the fact that colby flipped Vanilla to support the idea that the Scum would have found Ed to be a greater threat...but this would only be the case if the Scum already knew that colby was Vanilla when they chose their target. I don't see anything that would indicate they were in possession of such information; am I missing something? I agree that all other things being equal, the Scum would be more likely to kill Ed (a known and skilled player) than colby (a new player). But that doesn't appear to be the argument you are making.
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Post by Holy Moley! on May 18, 2011 16:47:25 GMT -5
As for Meeko, I do see the point that Moley made that why choose someone died? Why thank you. As someone who's suspected both you and CIAS, right now I'm worried about town-on-town action (and not of the nice sexy kind. I'm talking the "let's hang him by the neck until he's dead" kind of deal, which is much less fun.) Right now I'm edging towards both you and CIAS as insane town rather than scum. I think you're too aggressive in putting forth every idea that occurs to you, no matter how silly it is (sorry, just my impression); I get a similar impression from CIAS. Doesn't mean I agree with either of you but I don't think you're the most likely scum candidates either. I'd also make the point about Ed and Colby - wouldn't the scum likely consider Colby more frameable than Ed? I can't see them taking out someone as strongly suspected as Colby was unless they were convinced he had some kind of power role. Whereas with Ed, I think he was under much less suspicion, thereby making him a more obvious scum target.
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Post by JustBeingGinger on May 18, 2011 17:31:17 GMT -5
As for Meeko, I do see the point that Moley made that why choose someone died? Why thank you. As someone who's suspected both you and CIAS, right now I'm worried about town-on-town action (and not of the nice sexy kind. I'm talking the "let's hang him by the neck until he's dead" kind of deal, which is much less fun.) Right now I'm edging towards both you and CIAS as insane town rather than scum. I think you're too aggressive in putting forth every idea that occurs to you, no matter how silly it is (sorry, just my impression); I get a similar impression from CIAS. Doesn't mean I agree with either of you but I don't think you're the most likely scum candidates either. I'd also make the point about Ed and Colby - wouldn't the scum likely consider Colby more frameable than Ed? I can't see them taking out someone as strongly suspected as Colby was unless they were convinced he had some kind of power role. Whereas with Ed, I think he was under much less suspicion, thereby making him a more obvious scum target. No offense taken! This is my 4th game so I am just learning the ropes.
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Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
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Post by Meeko on May 18, 2011 17:48:16 GMT -5
Current Vote Count: Meeko (3,3) BillMc [72] Guiri [108] Archangel [116] BillMc (2,2) Honest Moley [81] Ma’at [103] JustBeingGinger (1,1) CatInASuit [64] Metallic Squink (1,1) Septimus [112] Archangel (1,1) Metallic Squink [121] CatInASuit (0,1) Septimus [47 112]colby11 (1,1): Meeko [13] With these votes, Meeko will be lynched. Ok. Wow. Archangel, I couldn't find a reason for you voting me. Meh. FOS Archangel. My Vote is taken, but Fingers, Forever Free.
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Post by septimus on May 18, 2011 18:19:20 GMT -5
I do apologize for referring to you as he/him, Ms. Metallic Squink. I hope I don't do it again, but can't totally rule it out. My brain's getting worse every day. On occasion I even find myself calling my daughter by the name of my sister! As to why I'm suspicious of you: my approach is to read your posts, and see if they sound like what Scum would say. I was unhappy with my case against CatInaSuit : some of his posts seemed wrong or smudgy, but they didn't seem like what Scum would write. Like Cat, you are casting suspicions here and there, but yours often seem especially contrived or false. Here's another example. Archangel makes a post that strikes me as sincere and pro-Town and you respond: I'm confused, then. You said you were off to hunt scum at one point but now you are saying that from the beginning of this game, your style of play is not good for scum hunting. So in addition to your excuses for why your play looks suspicious, you now have an excuse for why you cannot hunt scum. The fact that you cannot find any scum (which is my interpretation of your comment that most players are coming up "probably town" for you) makes you look even more suspicious to me. How many times have we heard scum say "no one looks scummy to me"? The sentiments of archangel you describe could fit me as well. I'm not good at scum-hunting, and I attract suspicion. If someone were indeed Scum, they'd have no trouble finding somewhere to place a smudge. I do think I've finally found a Scum though.
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Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
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Post by Meeko on May 18, 2011 18:32:33 GMT -5
@bill : I posted the PM regarding my forced vote verbatim. I do have less time to devote to Mafia, given my track record. I can't vote you.
How is this NOT opportunism?
I mean really, what is the defense for the lone sane man? Isn't the refrain ALWAYS "Oh, of course he is in deep denial".
Not sure what else I can do here, Bill, Not that it matters, we all know I wont be voting you.
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Post by metallicsquink on May 18, 2011 18:51:39 GMT -5
I do apologize for referring to you as he/him, Ms. Metallic Squink. I hope I don't do it again, but can't totally rule it out. My brain's getting worse every day. On occasion I even find myself calling my daughter by the name of my sister! As to why I'm suspicious of you: my approach is to read your posts, and see if they sound like what Scum would say. I was unhappy with my case against CatInaSuit : some of his posts seemed wrong or smudgy, but they didn't seem like what Scum would write. Like Cat, you are casting suspicions here and there, but yours often seem especially contrived or false. Here's another example. Archangel makes a post that strikes me as sincere and pro-Town and you respond: I'm confused, then. You said you were off to hunt scum at one point but now you are saying that from the beginning of this game, your style of play is not good for scum hunting. So in addition to your excuses for why your play looks suspicious, you now have an excuse for why you cannot hunt scum. The fact that you cannot find any scum (which is my interpretation of your comment that most players are coming up "probably town" for you) makes you look even more suspicious to me. How many times have we heard scum say "no one looks scummy to me"? The sentiments of archangel you describe could fit me as well. I'm not good at scum-hunting, and I attract suspicion. If someone were indeed Scum, they'd have no trouble finding somewhere to place a smudge. I do think I've finally found a Scum though. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree, then. I find it a pretty reliable scum tell that scum do have trouble finding somewhere to place a smudge (and even a vote) because they have to find a way to disguise it as townie ignorance. You are also saying that you have trouble finding scum (which is one of the reasons I voted Archangel) but other than that, I don't find your other posts suspicious (like I do Archangel). You are once again just saying that what I say sounds like something a scum would say which is very vague and makes it hard for me to defend myself against. I'm not really sure what else to say about your vote on me except that you are wrong about me.
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Post by BillMc on May 18, 2011 19:01:37 GMT -5
I agree that all other things being equal, the Scum would be more likely to kill Ed (a known and skilled player) than colby (a new player). But that doesn't appear to be the argument you are making. That *is* the point I am making! If they were to take out Colby, rather than Ed, they would need to have believed things weren't equal and Colby was more of a threat than Ed. And since Colby flipped vanilla, he wasn't more of a threat.
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Post by BillMc on May 18, 2011 19:07:52 GMT -5
@bill McI think either scenario seems equally likely. I don’t think we can say, “Because Ed flipped cop and Colby flipped vanilla, scum must have targeted Ed”, which seems to be the logic you’re using (scum aren’t going to know that Ed is the cop and Colby is vanilla until it’s announced by the mod, unless they have some sort of investigative power, in which case, then yes, I think it becomes much more likely that scum targeted Ed). I didn’t see anything that said “power” in Ed’s or Colby’s posts, so to me seems like scum could have taken out either one (admittedly, I wasn’t looking for clues, and haven’t gone back and re-read, but if you see anything in the posts that points toward Ed being power and Colby being vanilla, I would be much more likely to buy that kind of reasoning). That is the point! If the scum knew nothing about either of them - they would have most likely killed Ed. if the scum knew Colby was vanilla, they still would have most likely killed Ed. If the scum knew Ed was a power, they would have killed Ed If the scum knew Colby was a power, they would have killed Colby. The only scenario where it makes sense for the scum to kill Colby rather than Ed, is where Colby had greater value.
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Post by BillMc on May 18, 2011 19:15:02 GMT -5
@bill : I posted the PM regarding my forced vote verbatim. I do have less time to devote to Mafia, given my track record. I can't vote you. How is this NOT opportunism? I mean really, what is the defense for the lone sane man? Isn't the refrain ALWAYS "Oh, of course he is in deep denial". Not sure what else I can do here, Bill, Not that it matters, we all know I wont be voting you. So just because you claim to have had your vote bought, no one should be allowed to vote for you because you can't do an omgus vote back? You'll claim opportunism for an vote on you. Cap's playstyle is the reason he gets lynched or nk'd in most games. So getting him to make a forced vote is going to probably result in him getting lynched just because of the way he plays. Today you are essentially appealing that because Cap flipped town, the person whose vote was "bought" should also be considered town, and that anyone voting for that person is opportunistic. So yesterday, everyone was opportunistic voting for Cap? I didn't hear you leaping to his defence. I strongly believe you are scum trying to get town by playing the "cap was town, so I must be town" card.
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Post by BillMc on May 18, 2011 19:21:18 GMT -5
Bill, why the sudden interest in people making statements for the Lie Detector again? Didn't we all cover this ground on Day 1. I have no idea whether there actually is a LD, nor what limitation/mechanism may actually be involved. I've played in a couple of games with a LD - in one they could ask about any statement previous made, in another it was only statements made that day. If the scum has a godfather (which is listed in the rules) an "I am town" statement *may* be true for a godfather since they would investigate as town. So an "I am town" statement is not definitive. For the question Meeko - if there is an LD and they choose to evaluate that statement, it will either confirm Meeko is truthful or full of it - irrespective of whether he is a godfather.
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Post by Dirx on May 18, 2011 19:43:47 GMT -5
Bill, scum could have guessed, from comments and/or behaviour, that colby had a power. I know that several Night kills I've decided on as scum were due to reasoning like "Hey, soandso is hanging back more than usual; they might have something to hide" or "Is it me, or did that comment suggest he knows something the rest don't?"
I don't know if colby made any statements that could have given that impression, but it's not unheard of for vanilla townies to give off power role signals (be it intentionally or not).
Franky, I'm of the opinion that we simply don't have enough data to make many statements about the kills with any amount of certainty.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 18, 2011 20:28:47 GMT -5
If the scum has a godfather (which is listed in the rules) an "I am town" statement *may* be true for a godfather since they would investigate as town. So an "I am town" statement is not definitive. I'm pretty sure you have more experience with Mafia than I do, but I think you're dead wrong here. A Godfather is not Town. He may appear to be Town, but he is most certainly Scum. So a statement of "I am Town" by a Godfather would absolutely be a lie.
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Post by Dirx on May 18, 2011 20:41:12 GMT -5
I think Bill was saying that a godfather could get a special exception from the mod under that circumstance. I'm almost positive I've seen something similar before (not with a lie detector, but some other role/mechanic that could possibly determine alignment).
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Post by BillMc on May 18, 2011 22:03:27 GMT -5
Exactly.
A Lie Detector is an investigative role
The "power" of the godfather role is that it is immune to investigations - if investigated, will show up as town.
If you then provide a role that negates that "power", then the JSP value of a godfather is dramatically reduced. ie, the LD would be a super-cop.
Look at it this way.... a COP investigates A and gets a town result, a LD tests A and gets a lie for "I am town". The COP claims and states A is town; the LD then claims and says A is scum. Who do you believe? the cop claim? the LD claim? the results? Lynch A and the COP investigation is proven false --- was the COP false claiming?
The reason why CAIS is not on my list of probable town is the choice of statement. *IF* "I am town" is true for a godfather - then it is a bad choice of statement.
The question I have asked Meeko is far more definitive.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 18, 2011 22:46:41 GMT -5
@gnarleyYou’ve been unusually quiet toDay – what’s up? Where’s your spreadsheet? Have any suspicions beyond Archangel? What do you think about her worry for Bill and vote for Meeko? my spreadsheet is here. it's taken a beating in Day 2 and it's not being very helpful right now. i'll look into Archangel again. Gnarly Where are you? enough said... sorry, i haven't been around here much. i have 3 games and this one is the most challenging so i'm taking my time. also i'm usually asleep when most of the posts come in so i have to play a lot of catchup if there are a lot of them. My Vote is taken, but Fingers, Forever Free. ;D
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Post by LightFoot on May 18, 2011 23:53:34 GMT -5
Work is kicking my asterisk But in an effort to contribute
by voting history (not an exact science I know) and by memorable posts (to me) I have some observations i am trying not to poke and hope here.
Dirx, septimus, Suburban Plankton , metallicsquink, are making sense to me (scary I know)
storeyteller, Archangel, Rysto, CatinaSuit ,gnarliecharlie,Merestil Haye are here but umm NOT kicking the tires like I expected
Granted I don't know how BillMc communicates his suspicions (never seen him live this long in game myself) so It might be his way .
Some of the extra discussion of what happened last Night and why (IE I was gonna question so and so but they are dead so I will post it anyway) seems non productive for the most part. Mi'ri, JBGinger, Meeko are buggin me (prob just because of their play style I don't know)
Honest Moley has my goat on this one not sure what to think there. I know this is not a HOLY COW BANANAS post. I f I were forced to vote right NOW I would choose one of the players on my 'not kicking the tires' list. But a one off vote accomplishes nothing
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