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Post by Gir! on Oct 12, 2007 17:58:18 GMT -5
Wow, I completely missed Day 5. Sorry guys and gals. Am I reading NAF's post above me correctly, that we can talk about more than just doing shots? Yes. (See, I don't have to be Evil all the time. ;D )
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Post by Parzival on Oct 12, 2007 18:27:12 GMT -5
It seems we are a bit more free to talk, just not vote.
I had a sort of open question for you, whatthefrak. Whether or not you want to share what you've been doing.
Idle, you mentioned the situation in Conspiracy (the SDMB Mafia) which may be a good point in favor of sharing information with the town.
In that case, Idle was pushing for details from someone because it would help him perform his role better. Especially in this game, we don't know what power roles are out there. So someone might know something that, once you share it, they can use to their (and the town's advantage). They might also be able to use it know whether someone is scum (as with Cookies & drainbead).
Again, I say this because I think information sharing is generally a net benefit to the town, but I don't want to push anyone to do more than they're comfortable with.
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Post by Parzival on Oct 12, 2007 18:33:05 GMT -5
I just thought of a point in Cookies favor - it was her disagreement with drainbead that likely led to drainbead's lynching. I find it a little difficult to believe that Cookies is a more valuable scum player than a scum roleblocker.
So if they're both scum, Cookies would have had to send a fellow scum to the gallows by disagreeing with her. It'd make sense if they were both ordinary scum, but seems like a really dumb move with drainbead being such a powerful scum role.
This means I'm putting Cookies somewhere between dnooman and MadTheSwine on the "confirmed crew" level.
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Post by Gir! on Oct 12, 2007 19:13:40 GMT -5
Most of you have gathered together in your favorite tavern to console each other over the abrupt and unexpected death of Diomedes. Suddenly, the front door bursts open and a few of the townspeople rush in, dragging the drinking crowd outside and down the street to reveal their recent discovery. The doors of Diomedes' residence are wide open and inside the building is a room containing a wall of monitors, which are automatically displaying scenes of location after location: the tavern, the repair shop, various people's houses, one after another, endlessly.
Diomedes has been discovered to have actually been Mr. Universe, a pro-Crew Watcher.
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Post by dnooman on Oct 12, 2007 19:21:42 GMT -5
Fuckle.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 12, 2007 19:29:12 GMT -5
Shit. Well, now we're three kinds of screwed.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 12, 2007 19:52:38 GMT -5
It seems we are a bit more free to talk, just not vote. I had a sort of open question for you, whatthefrak. Whether or not you want to share what you've been doing. Idle, you mentioned the situation in Conspiracy (the SDMB Mafia) which may be a good point in favor of sharing information with the town. In that case, Idle was pushing for details from someone because it would help him perform his role better. Especially in this game, we don't know what power roles are out there. So someone might know something that, once you share it, they can use to their (and the town's advantage). They might also be able to use it know whether someone is scum (as with Cookies & drainbead). Again, I say this because I think information sharing is generally a net benefit to the town, but I don't want to push anyone to do more than they're comfortable with. I can't think of a reason why sharing his actions over the last few Days would have any practical benefit to the town. If you, or someone else, can, then it's worth discussing, but just fishing like that - "share what you know just in case someone can use it" - seems a little reaching to me. I dunno. I'm kind of depressed right now. We're down two investigators without either having shared anything, really - which is bad enough in a closed game like this - but to have it happen without us having a chance to even accomplish something in between, and to lose a lynch in the bargain... We're most likely going to be down to 17 at Dawn - if there are, say, 5 scum remaining, we might be down to two or at best three Day/Night cycles left before game over. I don't want to be Debbie Downer, but unless we have some kind of fairly major ace still hiding in a hole somewhere, we're in a lot of trouble. Somehow we have to spin this and make it work for us. I don't know how.
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Post by whatthefrak on Oct 12, 2007 22:16:52 GMT -5
That's actually why I was asking if we could talk. I don't really want to answer that question, but I feel like I need to at least address it.
I'm very uncomfortable sharing what I'm doing at Night. I know we're all grasping at straws trying to figure out what's going on, but every time we discuss the conclusions we make from observing patterns, we're giving them help, and I don't want to add to that by creating a pattern of who I'm protecting. I dont' remember who said it, but yesterDay someone said everyone the scum have killed so far has had 1 or 0 votes. I was thinking to myself that maybe I should protect someone toNight few votes, and then the WIFOM concept finally dawned on me.
I understand that my line of thinking could be flawed, and as such, I'm completely open to other points of view.
Panama, I normally have a good vibe from you, but that last sentence makes my skin crawl.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 12, 2007 23:35:57 GMT -5
Do NOT share your Protection list WTF. and Do NOT let us influence it.
and with that, What. The. Fuck? I leave for 24 hours. come back and BOOM! Dead Guy! This fucking shit is ridiculous....
(-_-) Anyways, I'm back and gonna have to re-Read.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 13, 2007 1:07:27 GMT -5
I don't get why some people (like story and [/b]Blaster[/b]) are finding me suspicious over getting a scum right. CIAS I can understand finding me suspicious over it because I think he's shady himself. Maybe I'm just a good judger of players? I called NAF as scum in MV and fluid as scum in MIII. Both wayyyy before anyone else ever suspected them and I had gotten on them both early in the game too. Not my fault I'm not so shabby at this game when I'm Town. I didn't have any sort of knowlege other than my own intuition, gut, feeling, observations, thoughts, and insights. Isn't that really all Town can do other than gain some more revelations along the way from certain power roles, if there ever are any in the game?
Yeah, find me suspicious because I called it wayyy back on Day One and stayed consistant and turned out to be right. That makes a lot of sense.
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 13, 2007 2:41:45 GMT -5
I don't get why some people (like story and [/b]Blaster[/b]) are finding me suspicious over getting a scum right. CIAS I can understand finding me suspicious over it because I think he's shady himself. Maybe I'm just a good judger of players? I called NAF as scum in MV and fluid as scum in MIII. Both wayyyy before anyone else ever suspected them and I had gotten on them both early in the game too. Not my fault I'm not so shabby at this game when I'm Town. I didn't have any sort of knowlege other than my own intuition, gut, feeling, observations, thoughts, and insights. Isn't that really all Town can do other than gain some more revelations along the way from certain power roles, if there ever are any in the game? Yeah, find me suspicious because I called it wayyy back on Day One and stayed consistant and turned out to be right. That makes a lot of sense.[/quote] <meta-game> Hold on, being consistent at finding scum. MV - We are talking about Sekham right? - When it was easy to call out NAF when you were scum yourself. </meta-game>
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 13, 2007 7:19:51 GMT -5
I don't get why some people (like story and [/b]Blaster[/b]) are finding me suspicious over getting a scum right. CIAS I can understand finding me suspicious over it because I think he's shady himself. Maybe I'm just a good judger of players? I called NAF as scum in MV and fluid as scum in MIII. Both wayyyy before anyone else ever suspected them and I had gotten on them both early in the game too. Not my fault I'm not so shabby at this game when I'm Town. I didn't have any sort of knowlege other than my own intuition, gut, feeling, observations, thoughts, and insights. Isn't that really all Town can do other than gain some more revelations along the way from certain power roles, if there ever are any in the game? Yeah, find me suspicious because I called it wayyy back on Day One and stayed consistant and turned out to be right. That makes a lot of sense.[/quote] What's that, the "don't hate me because I'm beautiful" defense? First of all, you were able to call out NAF of being scum "wayyyy before anyone else ever suspected [him]" because you were scum yourself, which is exactly the point I'm trying to make here. Second of all, you're misrepresenting why you're being called out here. It's not the fact that you called out drainbead that's bothering me; obviously, calling out scum is why we're here. What's bothering me is the certainty you've displayed in doing so, and - especially - your indifference to the possibility of additional evidence that might affect your opinion. I've played town a bunch of times myself now, and I've called out scum a few times, too - but I've never been so certain that if someone else came along and said, "hey, I have information that might affect your ability to make a correct decision on this," that I'd blow it off.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 13, 2007 10:49:50 GMT -5
What's that, the "don't hate me because I'm beautiful" defense? First of all, you were able to call out NAF of being scum "wayyyy before anyone else ever suspected [him]" because you were scum yourself,[/i][/quote] I just find that line HILARIOUS. Like I'm still grinning over the audacity of that line for a good 5 mins after reading it. Just... that's awesome. ;D "Don't hate on me! I'm awesome at finding scum! I found scum last game!" "Because you WERE scum last game!" "Oh. .... Yeah.... Still... Don't Hate!"
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Post by Parzival on Oct 13, 2007 11:20:47 GMT -5
whatthefrak, I'll try to explain why I had a sort of disclaimer in there. I'm using two principles here:
1. I believe information is of a net benefit to the town. Short of revealing power roles, the more information we have, the better equipped we all are for dealing with scum.
2. You shouldn't listen to anyone who tells you to do something. You obviously shouldn't trust any one person in the game, since they might be scum. Even crew can come up with bad ideas, too. In fact, anyone who does do something and then says, "Well, you were asking me too" looks scummy to me. Scum often don't want to reveal the real motivation for their behavior.
So what I was trying to say, don't do this because I'm asking you to(since I think asking directly would be useless), do it if you agree with my arguments in its favor. You've made it clear that you don't, so I'll leave it at that.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 13, 2007 11:32:26 GMT -5
Anyway here's a Quick Voter Recap of Day 4: Pygmy Rugger (1)-BLAM (+FOS by Dotchan2.0) HockeyMonkey(1) -Idle Thoughts CatinaSuit -(1) -DnooMan, Zeriel storyteller (1) -MtS Idle thoughts (1) -StoryTeller Hal- wanted 1 vote, got it from pygmy who then unvoted. 6 outta 20 votes. Easy enough to keep track of. But the thing that gets me is this: There were TWO kills on Night 4. Atarus AND FCoD. Only on Day 1 was there 2 Kills. Rest of the Time 1 kill. And also, Atarus died in a REALLY fucked up way.... The thing that sticks out to me is that the "flavor" which I know is supposed to be just "flavor" indicates that One person was behind it. Namely in the whole "the shadowy figure smiling at the beauty of his plan" dealio. A bit much... for scum but that makes me wonder. So I'm just gonna go and Bring up all the Deaths too: Deaths at Night Flavor Listing:diggitcamara: -Blown up by a "shadowy figure waiting in an alley" who then ran out of the alley. Greedy Smurf: another body, this one containing several bullet holes. No ID, but found outside alley, and no # of Killers. zeriel: "massive barbed spear" to the chest by an unseen assailantatarus: shadowy figure's Evil "Bear Tea Party" Plan Flying Cow of Doom: "Large body fallen from above"~~~~~~ So My random Musings on this?Just saying... I know we shouldn't look at flavors. But its fun, and it's something to do during the night. Mostly cuz of that Evil Bear-T Party Plan? Doesn't scream to me like "Reavers*" or something. Giant Spear to the chest? That screams Reaver. Same with the Falling from a great height sorta thing. Though the spear attack was done by an assailant, not a group (though falling and bullet holes could be done by multiple people), however, the whole "What if scum have to pick 1 to send out to attack someone" would make that point moot. Cuz then every kill would be done by 1 person. But still, these are just things i'm wondering about.... Cuz the bear thing is really wierd. REALLY wierd. And more importantly it means that there are 2 people out there who can kill. Either since Day 1 they've been laying low, or they just got activated and can now kill? Or... maybe they got blocked night 3? By our Scum Role Blocker? Which is just weird again.... The possibilities. Though the fact that we have 2 killing groups is i think the most important information. We need to watch out, otherwise with potentially 3 kills a Cycle (night+Day) occurring we could be wiped out quite quickly (Less than 6 Days). I'm kinda putting myself into the Day 12 is Doom's Day Mentality here now.... ((*Yes, I still believe in Reavers. My Gut feeling Guess: 2 Groups: Reavers and the Alliance. Why? I dunno. Just Gut Feelings. Dunno if they could be working together, but with the appearance of 2 kills, i'm wondering. Also I wonder, if there is a Reaver group, do we have to kill them? My head says yes, but my PM only indicates the Alliance. Or are the Reavers on Alliance side??)) Basically... What are peoples thoughts on the 2 kills situation? My thoughts have been that the kills are affecting all the people with low "controversy". I feel like we're just a school of fish being surrounded by scum sharks, and they're picking off the weakest "most innocent" ones (in terms of vote histories), and that we're kinda gonna be stuck with a Day where there's only gonna be scummy arseholes left, and thats what we're stuck with then. Finding scum when EVERYONE has got some controversy around themselves. It's one reason i wanted people to vote more, and for people to voice opinions, but now i'm realizing the problem with it. Those who arent... are easily killed by scum so far it seems. It gives scum an easy "pool of victims" to choose from. I really don't like Day 4 being over so quickly. At ALL. Here's hoping Day 5 will clear up some information on the 2 kills vs. 1 thing....
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Post by whatthefrak on Oct 13, 2007 11:51:04 GMT -5
I meant to say this earlier, but I really have to admit that I'm shocked that Diomedes turned out to be town.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 13, 2007 14:27:04 GMT -5
Really?
(-_-)
If he wasn't town, I'd have assumed that whoever WAS the cop woulda checked him out within 2 days... and called him out. So i was fine with him actually after Day 3 cuz I assumed Night 2 and 3 someone's gotta have checked him out if he's Not the real deal. But yeah. I guess YMMV. I just tend to trust the "investigative roles" because it's really hard to fake them when you're called out. Though he did say he was a "watcher" but still. I'da figured something woulda turned up...
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 13, 2007 22:31:57 GMT -5
First of all, you were able to call out NAF of being scum "wayyyy before anyone else ever suspected [him]" because you were scum yourself, which is exactly the point I'm trying to make here. I meant IV. That was the Pirate game, right? Read Day Two and Three of it. I was right and no, I was not scum in that game. Certainty? I wasn't certain of anything. I WAS fairly sure because she seemed SO suspicious. I didn't see the point of having yet another role claim. It's what scum wants. To know who is REALLY protown and who is REALLY scum (but may have a proGOOD name from the series). Me, I was already suspicious of DB so it worked for me. What I was disagreeing with (and I'll quote me saying it a million times if you want) was asking Cookies to role claim while only having six or seven votes. Yes. THAT I was disagreeing with. Not NOT roleclaiming at all, ever. I have said that a couple times that Day. How did I blow it off? Please quote me where I did so. It seems to me Cookies was saying she had evidence of DB being scum, something I, personally, didn't need since I was voting for her. Do I disagree that it wasn't good for Town? No. I feel it's GREAT it got out. Do I disagree at the time she came forward? Yes. It is not in Town's best interest, I feel, if we are to roleclaim just with half the votes needed to lynch a person with.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 13, 2007 22:33:40 GMT -5
I meant to say this earlier, but I really have to admit that I'm shocked that Diomedes turned out to be town. Same here.
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Post by dnooman on Oct 13, 2007 22:45:11 GMT -5
Certainty? I wasn't certain of anything. I WAS fairly sure because she seemed SO suspicious. I didn't see the point of having yet another role claim. It's what scum wants. To know who is REALLY protown and who is REALLY scum (but may have a proGOOD name from the series). Dude. You not only "predicted" that she was scum, but "predicted" her power, and "predicted" her name affiliation. Who the f*ck thinks that someone is acting like a role blocker? I've had my eye on you for days now. Guess who I'm gonna vote for when we can vote?
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 13, 2007 22:54:15 GMT -5
Okay, so basically it's going to take my death just to show you all that I just happened to be pretty good in my judgments?
Sucks to be Town with these sorts of thoughts.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 13, 2007 22:58:29 GMT -5
dnooman, I didn't call the name "roleblocker" before she said it. Why don't you actually go back and read the order in which things happened?
DB claimed roleblocker HERSELF. Did you not notice this? I then said "Well then I think it's a scummy role blocker".
Where was me calling what role she was before it was already out on the table, huh? I can't seem to find it. Can you help me out here?
Good thing I'm NOT an experienced mafia player, since apparently it took a mind UNLIKE mtgman's to think that a scum roleblocker WOULDN'T be so harebrained of a thought.
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Post by dnooman on Oct 14, 2007 1:17:12 GMT -5
dnooman, I didn't call the name "roleblocker" before she said it. Why don't you actually go back and read the order in which things happened? DB claimed roleblocker HERSELF. Did you not notice this? I then said "Well then I think it's a scummy role blocker". Where was me calling what role she was before it was already out on the table, huh? I can't seem to find it. Can you help me out here? Good thing I'm NOT an experienced mafia player, since apparently it took a mind UNLIKE mtgman's to think that a scum roleblocker WOULDN'T be so harebrained of a thought. Damn, why so defensive? CIAS and Story have made much more effective indictments of you previously. If you get lynched and turn up town, I'll be surprised. The "I'm just that good" defense in less than worthless, it's scummy. And let the record show that I'm WAY too uncomfortable with how sure you are that I'm town. You sir, are either a Reaver or Alliance, or some other person or group that needs to die. I'd make a Chia joke, but I'd really rather kill a scum than have a laugh at this point. I've got my game face on now. Bring it bitches!
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 14, 2007 1:40:46 GMT -5
Wow. This aggression is quite unexpected. Especially from You Dnoo.... ( ) Mostly because I dislike people who call out others for being defensive, especially after they feel attacked. It's a cheap shot i think, see someone who's already on edge, ask them a few more questions and then when they get riled up, call them out for being "Defensive". I think we need to go into the next day with cooler heads. Because right now, this town is in fucking trouble. We basically got a wasted day here and a Lost Power Role to boot for it. This shit shouldn't happen goddammit! But yeah, now the town has got a handicap. So we best be real careful about what we do.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 14, 2007 8:51:33 GMT -5
Wow. This aggression is quite unexpected. Especially from You Dnoo.... ( ) Mostly because I dislike people who call out others for being defensive, especially after they feel attacked. It's a cheap shot i think, see someone who's already on edge, ask them a few more questions and then when they get riled up, call them out for being "Defensive". I think we need to go into the next day with cooler heads. Because right now, this town is in rutting trouble. We basically got a wasted day here and a Lost Power Role to boot for it. This gos se shouldn't happen goddammit! But yeah, now the town has got a handicap. So we best be real careful about what we do. Actually, philosophically, I'm not sure I agree. We're in deep enough shit now that we need to take a chance here and there; I'm not sure playing carefully and conservatively is going to work. In football terms, we're down three scores in the fourth quarter and the refs just hit us with a crushing holding call - we have to push a little bit, get a little more aggressive, and if we lose that way, well, better that than a slow death. As for Idle, as of right now he officially has no votes. I don't think anyone's planning to hammer him thirty seconds after toMorrow begins, but if there's some reason that he should be exempt from scrutiny after exhibiting a level of confidence that I consider fairly uncommon for pro-Town players, then tell us what it is.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 14, 2007 8:52:37 GMT -5
By the way, when does the new Day actually start? It should be kinda soon, right?
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Post by Gir! on Oct 14, 2007 8:56:15 GMT -5
Today, at 5:30 PM Central Time/3:30 PM Pacific Time. Or when I get back from taking my sister to the train station if it takes me longer than that.
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 14, 2007 8:59:20 GMT -5
Roosh,
I think the flavour is just that. Flavour.
Don't forget it looks like the scum choose one person and send them off to do the killing. Also I think we have a Vig rather than a second scum group, otherwise we would have had a few more kills at night.
I think FCoD was killed over his name. As the second person with a missing name from the Firefly canon, I would hazard a guess that the Vig played WIFOM and thought if one was town the other was scum.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Oct 14, 2007 9:05:34 GMT -5
One last check before bed...
No, Day not started yet.
Oh well, it will probably start while I'm asleep (then again, they usually finish while I'm asleep!)
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 14, 2007 14:30:43 GMT -5
I have no qualms with examining Idle thoughts tomorrow. I just disliked the "You're being defensive" call against him, cuz he's already on edge, it seemed like a cheap shot. I mean yeah if he had no accusations against him and he posted like that, i'd understand. But it was also done by Dnoo, so I'm less suspicious of it. But I still don't like the line. That's all. I'm going into Day 5 with an open mind. Though I don't want to be so aggressive that we just allow ourselves to get railroaded into voting out someone and screwing up again. Every mislynch now is fatal. Unless Cat's right on the Vig thing. Because 2 kills a night are gonna hurt this town i feel a lot more in the coming days if we keep mislynching. Right now scum already got 3 kills in w/o much scrutiny, who knows what they'll get on this Night as well.
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