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Post by dnooman on Oct 16, 2007 18:38:53 GMT -5
<snip> The fact that Pygmy doesn't want us to do it based on the grounds that it wouldn't help, makes me want to do it even more, as I'm growing increasingly suspicious of him.<snip> When did I say I didn't want to do it? I never expressed any preference on way or another. What I said was: You even knew it was a bad idea when you posed it, saying: <snip> Hate me for saying it, or even thinking it, but I'm pondering the efficacy of a mass role claim ATM. The scum have us over a barrel. We need perfect lynches in order to survive. <snip> Emphasis mine. I said that knowing there would be opposition, which there clearly is. I'm gonna drop the idea if nobody else is on board with it, I just think that we need to think along alternative lines. We've only lynched ONE freaking scum! That shows that our current method is just not working well enough.
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Post by dnooman on Oct 16, 2007 18:40:16 GMT -5
Also, what's you official stance on a mass role claim?
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Hockey Monkey!
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Oct 16, 2007 18:54:14 GMT -5
Ok, Hijacked from dotchan's list. = Updated Claims List = - Full Claims - CatinaSuit: Wash (Vanilla) Dnooman: Sherriff Bourne (Vanilla) Mad the Swine: Hector Sanchez (Mason) Roosh: Inara Serra (50% Bomb) whatthefrak: Zoe (50% Bodyguard) ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies: Fanty (Mingo-specific vigilante) Idle Thoughts: Simon Tam (Mod-Confirmed, 50% Doc) - Claimed Crew - nesta (replaces sinjin) (also claimed some sort of power) mhaye - Others of Note - panamajack (claimed to be attacked Night 2) Hal Briston (claimed one-shot vig, used on Idle Thoughts) No Claim Captain Klutz dotchanV2 (replaces CaerieD) mtgman Pygmy Rugger Zeriel v.2 (replaces Yattara) Well I reckon we have approx 5 scum out of the remaining 16 which is not good odds. A few questions for people. Hal Briston : Is there any reason why your night visitor was could not be scum instead of town? dotchan: Where did sinjin/nesta claim some sort of power. My thinking on the current remaining players Likely scumpanamajack nesta mhaye mtgman Unlikely ScumPygmy Rugger dotchan Captain Klutz Zeriel Hal Briston Likely CrewCookies Roosh MadTheSwine Dnooman Whatthefrak Known CrewCatinASuit (I am to me ) Idle Thoughts I'm catching up right now. Cat, did you forget about me? :sniff: Idle, good to see you were only mostly dead. : Now back to our stooooooory...
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 16, 2007 19:03:44 GMT -5
My official stance is, actually, that it's a bad idea. <snip> To assume that a mass claim is bad, is to assume that we still have hidden pro-town power roles right? No. drainbead didn't see any reason to fake her name, why would any of the other scum? That's why a mass role claim is a bad idea. Agreed. But why do you think the scum wouldn't just claim "Rambo", or "Daisy"? We've already seen roles that are not in the cannon can be town. Agreed. Scum tend to find it harder to hide at end game. I've played three games as scum, so I've seen it first hand. Heck, in all three, I was one of the Last Scum Standing. The town in M5 thought they were boned at about this point, relatively, in the game, and they ended up pulling it out. This is not the time to panic. That will only lead to rash decisions that we may end up regretting.
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Hockey Monkey!
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Oct 16, 2007 19:30:13 GMT -5
Ok, caught up with first read through. I'm very confused over the Easter Bunny issue. I just get the feeling we aren't getting the whole story from Dotchan.
CIAS, I can't remember what specifically gave me the impression that you were less scummy. That was a long time ago. Sorry. :/
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 16, 2007 23:28:13 GMT -5
Actually, I'm against the whole Mass Claim thing too. Because we do still have 3 strong Names out there, and I don't want to give them up to the scum even if there is a chance they ARE scum.
but right now I'm also really really suspicious of Dotchan and indirectly thus Hal. Because I want to know who Hal was that his and ONLY his character would deal with Jubal in order to get a weapon. A weapon that killed the doctor. To me... I'm wondering if there was a reversal of this, and perhaps the Bastard Mods created an "Enabler" type role that only worked for Scum. Just that, if Jubal found an ALLIANCE member, he could arm them with a weapon....
So uh... Hal Any insight on who/why Your Name/person is so special to Dotchan/Jubal?
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 16, 2007 23:29:40 GMT -5
So Idle Thoughts, did you ever protect panamajack? Enjoy, Steven Nope.
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 16, 2007 23:43:45 GMT -5
I get the feeling that no-one has protected panamajack overnight.
Would anyone like to come forward and claim they assisted in his night troubles?
Or is panamajack scum and just trying to look townie?
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 17, 2007 0:58:59 GMT -5
Would anyone like to come forward and claim they assisted in his night troubles?=CiaS
If a doctor/protector did do such a thing, I'd be very against them coming out actually and stating such. Bad Cat! Bad!
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 17, 2007 1:16:07 GMT -5
Would anyone like to come forward and claim they assisted in his night troubles?=CiaS If a doctor/protector did do such a thing, I'd be very against them coming out actually and stating such. Bad Cat! Bad! A doctor/protector role that let panamajack know he was being attacked without actually telling him who was attacking him. That doesn't make sense. From what dotchan said, her role can only interact with Hal Briston, so cross that one off. Colour me suspicious on that oneI don't think it happened. I guess the other question to answer if I am wrong is who would have attacked panamajack on that night and why?
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Post by mtgman on Oct 17, 2007 3:32:47 GMT -5
Would anyone like to come forward and claim they assisted in his night troubles?=CiaS If a doctor/protector did do such a thing, I'd be very against them coming out actually and stating such. Bad Cat! Bad! A doctor/protector role that let panamajack know he was being attacked without actually telling him who was attacking him. That doesn't make sense. From what dotchan said, her role can only interact with Hal Briston, so cross that one off. Colour me suspicious on that oneI don't think it happened. I guess the other question to answer if I am wrong is who would have attacked panamajack on that night and why? Consider yourself coloured suspicious then. What you just did to ask if some, as yet unknown, protective role had assisted panamajack is classic scum fishing for power roles behavior. If there is another protective role out there it's much more valuable hidden than panamajack is even if he is scum, ESPECIALLY, now that our only partly dead Dr. is only 50% effective. Enjoy, Steven
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 17, 2007 5:25:47 GMT -5
I've got a sinking conspiracy theory feeling that Hal, you're scum. Can you persuade me otherwise?
Because... currently there's only one other person out there looking for a specific person. So the fact that DOTCHAN also is out there looking for a specific person... makes me wonder if BOTH sides are looking for the same person, and that maybe... the other side got to you first.
Since you've already claimed Vanilla Townie.... Would you mind sharing your Name with us, Hal? Because I woke up this morning, and I can't shake the feeling that you, sir, might be Mingo.....
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Post by Captain Klutz on Oct 17, 2007 8:14:32 GMT -5
Dotchan, I'm trying to understand what you mean about your apparent "one shot" ability.
You have said that it only affected Hal's role, but I'm not sure what that means. Do you mean Hal's character name specifically, or something more general, such as "vanilla crew"?
So Dotchan, if you could check your role PM:
Does it say that the gift can only be given once?
Does it give any indication as to who can or can't receive the gift? Or what role can receive it?
It just looks mighty odd that, if Hal happens to be the one person who can receive it, that you hit him on the first try.
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Post by Hal Briston on Oct 17, 2007 8:22:07 GMT -5
A quick response to those looking for my character before I drop the Littlest Briston off at day care:
As someone who has never seen a minute of the show, it took all of 30 seconds of Googling to find that it makes perfect sense.
Back in an hour or so.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Oct 17, 2007 8:35:48 GMT -5
NO NO NO! Mass name claim is BAD. It doesn't prove anything(as Kaylee(nee drain bead) showed) and the precedent has already been set that at least SOME of our power roles, Mal (nee atarus) and Dr. Tam (nee Idle Thoughts), DO correlate to major characters. A mass name claim just narrows the field for the scum to shoot into because they know which of the major characters are scum. And I fail to see why you (nee dnooman) think there must be an overlap? Why couldn't scum claim with their actual character names? Enjoy, Steven To assume that a mass claim is bad, is to assume that we still have hidden pro-town power roles right? What makes you think that there are more? I think that there is a high liklihood of an overlap simply because we were given a relatively short list of canon names in the primer, and we've already seen a good number of the major names. IIRC we've yet to see anyone claim River, Zoe, and Jayne. Who's to say whether they're good guys or bad in this game? I KNOW that if there are two people that claim the same name, we've found at LEAST one scum. This closed setup is a bitach because anything can happen without warning, but I think if we don't change our tactics soon, we're boned. Well, there's likely at least one other (probably town) role: vigilante. You mentioned Jayne Cobb. Well, he is a reasonable guess for this vigilante role (just like Simon Tam was a reasonable guess for the role of Doctor) - so yes, there are some names which can give too much away. Put me in the camp that is not in favour of a mass name claim. PS - Zoe has been claimed by whatthefrak
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Post by Zeriel on Oct 17, 2007 8:40:34 GMT -5
I note that this dotchan easter bunny stuff has a precedent, we already have at least one other claimant who can only affect one other role (DarkCookies).
If we're believing Cookies, we ought also give DotChan at least some benefit of the doubt. If the person who protected Pygmy Rugger can only protect a certain person, that person should also out themselves (but if it's something generic then they should not.)
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 17, 2007 9:12:45 GMT -5
I note that this dotchan easter bunny stuff has a precedent, we already have at least one other claimant who can only affect one other role ( DarkCookies). If we're believing Cookies, we ought also give DotChan at least some benefit of the doubt. And herein lies the problem. By not lynching Cookies, we've shown the scum that claiming a one-other-role-specific role will get you off the hook. The difference, IMHO, is that when Cookies claimed, she divulged all, and was very thorough about how her role worked. dotchan, OTOH, has not even answered all questions directed at her concerning the specifics of her role. These holes and flaws in claimed roles are how we nailed drainbead. Somebody protected me? How do you know this?
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Post by Captain Klutz on Oct 17, 2007 9:13:52 GMT -5
Say, does anyone know what Storyteller and Blaster have been SAYING? In the last couple of days that might have gotten them killed? I mean, maybe they were onto something, and scum took 'em out? I'd like to check this stuff out further their posts on Day 3/4 at least..... Checking out BlasterSpiff: Day 3 - anti storyteller, anti Drain, anti Hockey - justifying his use of maths - asking the Cookies voters whether there was anything more than the slip - anti Pygmy, in regard to a Roosh post. Roosh later disagreed with Spiff's interpretation Day 4 - anti Pygmy - anti names-mean-anything - finding possible atarus crumbs - suspicious of Hockey, Cat and Idle HalVig targeted Idle, so I would guess that a Vig targeted one of story and Spiff, and scum targeted the other. I can see why a Vig would think that they were scum, but it's not very clear why the scum targeted the other.
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Post by Hal Briston on Oct 17, 2007 9:28:05 GMT -5
Ok, back. So uh... Hal Any insight on who/why Your Name/person is so special to Dotchan/Jubal? Yes -- it fits right in with the cannon, apparently. I am River Tam, a Vanilla Crewperson. My alignment is Crew, and I win when all Alliance are dead.From what I've read, it seems the two major differences are 1) instead of trying to bring me in, in here Jubal is looking to help me, and 2) I don't get any of the cool mental abilities that cannon River seems to have. Ah well... And yes, I'm well aware of the irony of who it was that I tried to kill...sorry about that, big bro...<headslap>
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 17, 2007 9:35:02 GMT -5
I note that this dotchan easter bunny stuff has a precedent, we already have at least one other claimant who can only affect one other role ( DarkCookies). If we're believing Cookies, we ought also give DotChan at least some benefit of the doubt. If the person who protected Pygmy Rugger can only protect a certain person, that person should also out themselves (but if it's something generic then they should not.) I believe you mean panama and not Pygmy? I'd like to clarify that my BS-o-meter is reacting more to the idea that (allegedly) CarieDot successfully found her single target on the first night than the idea that (allegedly) CarieDot has only a single target. I know that my testimony/claim would be at least somewhat confirmed once Mingo dies, because I know that he is scum. If we assume that dot and Hal aren't lying, they were/are in a considerably more ambiguous state, and the incident with Idle's near death adds a whole other facet of complication, that we just happened to be absolved from due to the Mods being human. Hal was provided only the character name who slipped him his weapon, but (again, if we're assuming that no lying is taking place) CarieDot left that exchange with comparatively less certainty about what actually happened during the whole affair and whether it might happen again.
Hal was then activated/empowered to try and kill someone, but CarieDot was not able to confirm anything further. All she could do (without any information from Hal) was wonder if her "gift" had been the weapon used every time someone died. Which brings up yet another level of ambiguity...Idle was whacked with a hatchet. Was CarieDot aware that what was slipped to Hal was indeed a hatchet or not? If she knew, how much faith would she put into whether or not she could rely on the various death scene colors to indicate whether Hal had done the killing?
If Hal's attempt to kill Idle had failed without the Mod oops, I somewhat doubt that we'd even be having this conversation. I suppose it would depend on whether or not Idle would've shared panama's alleged experience of knowing that an attempt had been made on his life.
And what this long-winded post boils down to, for me, is that this optimistic (again) end of the spectrum would be extremely sucky and tragic if the town misinterpreted it. We'd basically be suspecting two town players for no other reason than two huge strokes of luck (CarieD finding Hal, and the Mods confirming Idle as the Doctor when resurrecting him).
Now that doesn't mean that I'm going to pull a Dio and profess that I KNOW that Hal and dot are both Town, but it does mean that I'm inclined to give them a bit of the benefit of the doubt for now.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 17, 2007 9:55:21 GMT -5
Continuing my thoughts, as I saw Hal's claim upon preview. Jubal's character being designed specifically for giving River a weapon really clashes with my color gutcheck. So that shrinks the margin of the benefit of the doubt where Hal is concerned, and that shrinkage extends to dot as well, but now we're in Wacky Wifom World again. Would two scum implicate each other in such a fashion?
panama now being all alone on his little island of strange Night activities is continually not sitting well with me. There is a definite odor about Night 2, and it has gotten stinkier over time. I will be looking back through panama's posts for a bit.
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 17, 2007 10:24:53 GMT -5
Continuing my thoughts, as I saw Hal's claim upon preview. Jubal's character being designed specifically for giving River a weapon really clashes with my color gutcheck. So that shrinks the margin of the benefit of the doubt where Hal is concerned, and that shrinkage extends to dot as well, but now we're in Wacky Wifom World again. Would two scum implicate each other in such a fashion?<snip> If this clashes with the color, I'd be more inclined to be more suspicious of dot for it, than of Hal. He just got investigated, and doesn't know any info about who did it, other than their role name. She, on the other hand, is the one providing the info that clashes, not Hal.
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 17, 2007 10:31:32 GMT -5
Ok, back. So uh... Hal Any insight on who/why Your Name/person is so special to Dotchan/Jubal? Yes -- it fits right in with the cannon, apparently. <snip> From what I've read, it seems the two major differences are 1) instead of trying to bring me in, in here Jubal is looking to help me, and <snip> Umm, this is pretty much the exact opposite. I don't see how it fits with the canon. PS: Cannon is the gun. Canon is the color/flavor. I had to look it up about a month ago, myself.
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Post by Hal Briston on Oct 17, 2007 10:58:23 GMT -5
Umm, this is pretty much the exact opposite. I don't see how it fits with the canon. I meant that in a "it fits in with the canon of River being the one that Jubal is looking for" way. (Thanks for the tip!)
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 17, 2007 12:02:13 GMT -5
Yes, yes, right. I got Hal and dot switched around in that last statement.
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Post by Hal Briston on Oct 17, 2007 12:20:45 GMT -5
Damn you, Cookies, you're forcing me to think. When you said brought up the possibility of dot being scum, my initial thought was "Naaa...why would Jubal be scum if he's handing out nightkills to town"? But something that dot mentioned really jumped out at me: ...the wording of the investigation result on Hal didn't suggest that I gave him any kind of ability). That strikes me as very odd, because the color in the message I got on Dawn #1 was that Jubal found me, and would assist in a nightkill of my choosing. That made me wonder if I would lose this nightkill if Jubal happened to die before I used it, but I was informed that no, the "assistance" could come in the form of a weapon or some such that I could use even if Jubal were no longer alive. So the fact that I received color of "Jubal will help you", while Jubal got color of "You found River" -- I dunno...those don't exactly jibe together, ya know?
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 17, 2007 12:26:03 GMT -5
<snip>So the fact that I received color of "Jubal will help you", while Jubal got color of "You found River" -- I dunno...those don't exactly jibe together, ya know? Yep. Yet another flaw in dotchan's explaination of her role. Vote dotchan
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Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 17, 2007 13:59:58 GMT -5
I go away to Disney World for a few days and all hell breaks loose! Who's in charge of this thing anyway?
--FCOD
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 17, 2007 14:12:34 GMT -5
HalVig targeted Idle, so I would guess that a Vig targeted one of story and Spiff, and scum targeted the other. I can see why a Vig would think that they were scum, but it's not very clear why the scum targeted the other. Snipped. Perhaps to implicate the other with guilt? Ok, back. So uh... Hal Any insight on who/why Your Name/person is so special to Dotchan/Jubal? Yes -- it fits right in with the cannon, apparently. I am River Tam, a Vanilla Crewperson. My alignment is Crew, and I win when all Alliance are dead.Hmmmm.... And you just happened to use your power, which could only be worked on your role and which just happened to be the first player Jubal tried on the person who is your own brother on the series? Am I getting all that right? There are far too many coincidences there. I'm thinking either you or dotchan has to be scum or a scum aligned role. Maybe both of you are...but it just all sounds too precise. Maybe YOU were like an Anti- Fanty...searching for your brother (myself) until you found him and it would kill him off if you did. It's getting increasingly harder to trust you, Hal. And I see you pointing it out that it's irony and apoligizing again. It's okay, you're forgiven. You can be forgiven yet still be held in suspicion by me, dear sis.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Oct 17, 2007 14:38:57 GMT -5
My role is what it is.
The Night 1 result on Hal only told me that I found River, and that I decided not to turn River in. There was bupkus about me giving Hal any pointy objects.
On Night 4, when I asked the Mods to clarify my role, Kat told me that my investigations have no effects on any other player except for River, and said effect was a one-shot deal.
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