RoOsh
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 12:18:03 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Oct 22, 2007 12:18:03 GMT -5
Still waiting for the Roleclaim, Pygmy.
And we can't discount the possibility Hockey that you could be a potential Recruit. I currently believe you are town, but there's always the possibility that they are looking for their next scum buddy to recruit ie: this Mingo person, and so someone who is townie could end up becoming scum over the next few days. So we can't fully trust Hal and you 100%, just an FYI. But currently, I'm leaning towards you guys as being okay.
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Parzival
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 12:24:46 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on Oct 22, 2007 12:24:46 GMT -5
I actually think that pygmy and Cookies are on the same side. At least I think its the most likely choice.
But what I'm getting at is that I think it important that we know whether or not there is more than one faction. I realized with hockeymonkey's last post that this is quite important, since it would be clear which group she and Hal aren't in.
I think that if there is a separate group involved here, Cookies is almost certain to be in it; Pygmy is slightly less likely.
But I'm amenable to the death of either one. We'll get the other Tomorrow. I know it is the case that Alliance are our primary objective, but I doubt any other group is going to be pro-crew, especially if they're a killing faction.
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 12:29:29 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Oct 22, 2007 12:29:29 GMT -5
You crazy kids and your vote counts.
5- Pygmy Rugger (Idle Thoughts, Roosh, mhaye, dnooman, Hal Briston)
4- ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (hockeymonkey, dotchan, panamajack, Pygmy Rugger)
9 of 15 votes cast With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch.
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RoOsh
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 12:32:24 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Oct 22, 2007 12:32:24 GMT -5
CatinaSuit ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies mtgman nesta whatthefrak Zeriel2.0
Get in here! Start Reading and figuring out who to vote for! This one is on the House!
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 12:37:25 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 22, 2007 12:37:25 GMT -5
Vote Pygmy
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 12:54:25 GMT -5
Post by Hal Briston on Oct 22, 2007 12:54:25 GMT -5
Incidentally, Cookies...if you're wondering about your karma dropping, it has nothing to do with your revealed scum status. I'm on a personal karma beatdown mission based on your picture caption.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 12:55:36 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 22, 2007 12:55:36 GMT -5
It's a shame more people weren't around to witness the end of the night. In my opinion, Cookies really did f-up and post to the wrong board. It was clear from her reaction and timing of her reaction that it was genuine, not contrived. The fact the Kat pulled the post for a little while is also evidence to me that it was a genuine slip from scum.<snip> The post in question is back up, I'm not sure if you're aware of that? I'm not sure if you and Hal are both scum, of if it's just one of you. I do wonder why you say " In my opinion, Cookies really did f-up". It sounds to me like scum trying to act townie by pretending not to be sure. Like I said, it's a great gambit. The fortunate part is that my role and power is not significant enough to reveal, and when I'm lynched and my alignment is revealed, it will be worth the sacrifice of catching Hockey and/or Hal.
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 13:03:14 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Oct 22, 2007 13:03:14 GMT -5
CatinaSuit ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies mtgman nesta whatthefrak Zeriel2.0
Get in here! Start Reading and figuring out who to vote for! This one is on the House! Did you read #49. I think everything I need to say is in there. I am quite prepared to hammer either Cookies or Pygmy Rugger as needs be. I know I am on another crusade, but does anyone else think that panamajack is begin really scummy today. I mean really, really scummy. Or is it just me.
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RoOsh
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 13:10:46 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Oct 22, 2007 13:10:46 GMT -5
Fine. Then
mtgman nesta whatthefrak Zeriel2.0 Get back in here!
The fortunate part is that my role and power is not significant enough to reveal, and when I'm lynched and my alignment is revealed, it will be worth the sacrifice of catching Hockey and/or Hal. And again Pygmy, why not reveal it now and catch them in the act rather than waste another lynch of a "townie" if that's what you're claiming to be?
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RoOsh
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 13:11:26 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Oct 22, 2007 13:11:26 GMT -5
And why wouldn't it Catch Cookies, instead of Hal/Hockey, Pygmy?
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 13:24:02 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 22, 2007 13:24:02 GMT -5
Incidentally, Cookies...if you're wondering about your karma dropping, it has nothing to do with your revealed scum status. I'm on a personal karma beatdown mission based on your picture caption. ;D I was wondering how long it would take to get noticed. From the "Boost your post count" thread: Just a quick note for later reference... *snickering to herself*
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 13:24:07 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 22, 2007 13:24:07 GMT -5
Cookies is already busted. Like I said, my role won't implicate them, but my alignment will.
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Hockey Monkey!
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This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 13:32:19 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Oct 22, 2007 13:32:19 GMT -5
It's a shame more people weren't around to witness the end of the night. In my opinion, Cookies really did f-up and post to the wrong board. It was clear from her reaction and timing of her reaction that it was genuine, not contrived. The fact the Kat pulled the post for a little while is also evidence to me that it was a genuine slip from scum.<snip> The post in question is back up, I'm not sure if you're aware of that? I'm not sure if you and Hal are both scum, of if it's just one of you. I do wonder why you say " In my opinion, Cookies really did f-up". It sounds to me like scum trying to act townie by pretending not to be sure. Like I said, it's a great gambit. The fortunate part is that my role and power is not significant enough to reveal, and when I'm lynched and my alignment is revealed, it will be worth the sacrifice of catching Hockey and/or Hal. Yes, I am aware that the post in question is back up. That's why I said Kat pulled it for a little while. It's my opinion that the post was a real f-up because I am not in a position to know if it is a fact. Opinion vs Fact. It is my opinion that the slip was real. I can't state facts that I don't know are facts. Your alignment has no bearing on mine.
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 14:16:31 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 22, 2007 14:16:31 GMT -5
The way I see it, Cookies has handed herself to us on a nice big silver platter. Unless we've got a vig in the game, she's a better play toDay because we're 100% certain she is guilty. Pygmy of course gets a lot of guilt by association, but there is still some chance this slip was planned (the scum get to talk at Night, after all). I understand what you are saying but how could/would that be allowed. It was Night. If Cookies knew what she was doing when posting that on here, in the Night thread, when NOBODY is allowed to talk strategy on here, then it shouldn't have been allowed. So I'm more willing to think it was a geniune slip up rather than a cunning plan. Of course, my mind has not rid "cunning plan" from it's depths completely....but I do think it's highly more implausible. Really, I'd be fine with a lynch of either just to stop the confusion. Yeah, we are sure Cookies is scum of some sorts. However what would you do if you were in Pygmy's case and you were guilty? You'd try the same defense. So either way, telling the truth or lying, he'd be saying the same thing. This is vexing to say the least.
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 14:22:43 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 22, 2007 14:22:43 GMT -5
It is evident that if she was investigating me, then I am not on her side. Snipped. You know, all of this is sorta odd because, amidst all of this stuff, I still find you and CIAS very, very shady yourselves. If it turns out that Cookies is of a different group then the Alliance, I wouldn't be surprised to find you or CIAS Alliance members.
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 14:25:37 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 22, 2007 14:25:37 GMT -5
Sorry for flip-flopping here guys, but I'm changing my vote again. Unvote PygmyVote Cookies
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 14:58:48 GMT -5
Post by mtgman on Oct 22, 2007 14:58:48 GMT -5
Fine. Then mtgman nesta whatthefrak Zeriel2.0 Get back in here! The fortunate part is that my role and power is not significant enough to reveal, and when I'm lynched and my alignment is revealed, it will be worth the sacrifice of catching Hockey and/or Hal.And again Pygmy, why not reveal it now and catch them in the act rather than waste another lynch of a "townie" if that's what you're claiming to be? As far as I'm concerned it's the mod's behavior which has really answered these questions. I don't think kat would have deleted the post if only ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies was scum and was making an elaborate "slip" to get Rugger, Pygmy lynched. If she wanted to try a gambit like that they'd see through it(with their perfect knowledge and all) and wouldn't aid her in it, they'd just let it sink or swim on its own. So from this action I conclude there are three or more scum left and two of them are Cookies and pygmy. Metagaming, sure, but I'm reasonably confident in my conclusions. I also considered storyteller0910 confirmed town from the moment NAF1138 stepped in between us way back when. As a moderator you never know if a fight between scum and town was staged and so you hesitate to step in. After-game hurt feelings will often be ameliorated by the revelation that one member of the fight was acting through hidden motives, and that makes it easier to forgive and forget. Two townies going at it? That's how bad blood begins and you need to watch it carefully. Stepping in is always tricky because you don't want to regulate behaviors or stifle discussion, but better that than bad blood. So I'm fine with a vote for either, but I'm leaning towards Pygmy for two reasons. First, Cookies all but admitted her power was an investigative power, which I don't fear for this one upcoming night too much. Pygmy on the other hand, may have a more active Night power. Being eager to start the Night and use your whiz bang power makes perfect sense to me as part of his motivation for his repeated hammering. Enjoy, Steven
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Santo Rugger
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The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 15:10:13 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 22, 2007 15:10:13 GMT -5
<snip>As far as I'm concerned it's the mod's behavior which has really answered these questions. I don't think kat would have deleted the post if only ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies was scum and was making an elaborate "slip" to get Rugger, Pygmy lynched. If she wanted to try a gambit like that they'd see through it(with their perfect knowledge and all) and wouldn't aid her in it, they'd just let it sink or swim on its own. <snip> I think the reason Kat deleted the thread originally is because she considered it talking strategy at night. After it was revealed that several people saw it before she could remove it, it was decided to put it back in, just like BlaM treated my slip when he found out people saw it after I removed it.
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 15:22:11 GMT -5
Post by mtgman on Oct 22, 2007 15:22:11 GMT -5
<snip>As far as I'm concerned it's the mod's behavior which has really answered these questions. I don't think kat would have deleted the post if only ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies was scum and was making an elaborate "slip" to get Rugger, Pygmy lynched. If she wanted to try a gambit like that they'd see through it(with their perfect knowledge and all) and wouldn't aid her in it, they'd just let it sink or swim on its own. <snip> I think the reason Kat deleted the thread originally is because she considered it talking strategy at night. After it was revealed that several people saw it before she could remove it, it was decided to put it back in, just like BlaM treated my slip when he found out people saw it after I removed it. Nonsense. If that had been the reason for the deletion kat would almost certainly have said so. There is no reason to hide that motivation. At this point I'd rather you be dead and me be wrong than me be right and you be alive. Nothing personal. Enjoy, Steven
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 15:35:33 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 22, 2007 15:35:33 GMT -5
But yours was an actual slip up, Pygmy.
Anyway...one main question I have, just for everyone is... where'd the second killing go?
Let's say Cookies and probably Pygmy and the other person that the post was to are NOT Alliance. Okay, so they killed off an Alliance member and we have two groups. One which they and an unknown third person are in (and who knows if that's it?) and one that is the Alliance and may have more members. The questions if it's this one are:
What happened to Alliance's Nightly kill then? Blocked maybe? What happened to the Vig's Nightly kill? Most have always assumed that the second kill each Dawn was a Vig kill...so where did this Vig go? Was it this third group that's been doing the killing all this time instead of a Vig?
Okay, let's say Cookies and probably Pygmy and whoever that post was to are all Alliance. Then they killed off a member of their own group and I guess that was allowed in this game. This would mean there probably isn't a third group and all of this stuff we're debating is just causing more confusion and muddying the waters and the real scum out there are trying to help it along. But this still gives rise to questions:
Where was the second kill? If they are Alliance, then we must have a Vig of some sort. What happened to their kill? Blocked maybe?
And finally, some general questions:
Was Cookies really Fanty or Mingo at one point? Does the other still exist? Why would she investigate Hal? Does her opposite hide IN the person so that they're both their role AND this Mingo/Fanty character? Do THEY know if they're Mingo or Fanty? And lastly...
Who, in God's name, is Brandon Shh? I googled the name all over and couldn't find it in any FF world, yet they must exist in this game since, at the time the spoiler board was still un-hidden I saw one of the topics dedicated to his/her Night actions. I told NAF/Kat about this right away and told them they should hide the spoiler boards because, being an admin, I can at least see the topic names in that forum and one of them was the diary of the above character. Both NAF and Kat said it was fine, though and that I didn't see anything that would give me any unfair advantage (heck, I don't even know the regular characters, let alone what side they may be on).
However, I'm revealing this now since I wasn't told I couldn't and since I'm Town I feel all and any info helps Town at this point as much as it does scum.
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Santo Rugger
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The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 15:55:45 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Oct 22, 2007 15:55:45 GMT -5
<snip> At this point I'd rather you be dead and me be wrong than me be right and you be alive. Nothing personal. Enjoy, Steven How does that make sense?
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RoOsh
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 17:31:14 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Oct 22, 2007 17:31:14 GMT -5
It is of my opinion that Klutz was NOT on the same group/side as Pygmy/Cookies. Because killing off your own member is just plain STUPID, as it sets back your own win condition by about 2 days (as you want to have a majority to win the game, so reducing your own numbers, and leaving the town w/ an extra member is like... the DUMBEST SHITTIEST Stupid idea for a Scum to play. Not to say it's probably not been done, but jesus, that's like the last idea on the list. Because honestly... what the hell? Who is that cocky in the game that they feel nightkilling one of their own would give them a tactical advantage?)
I'm believing there are 2 groups out there. Reavers have still not been found. And there are Operativez/Hand of Blues which travel in 2. And there was Kaylee our Crew lured to the dark side. So for me it seems like 3 KINDS of possible groups are possible "scum factions" but I believe that one of the other two groups (Hands of Blue or Reavers) lured Kaylee over to thier side (Not a recruitment, just meaning that she was on the side of one of them pre-starting the game. And I'd lean towards teh Hands of Blue vs. Reavers, but that's just on my gut).
So I'm gonna say 2 groups out there. As Kaylee was Alliance Roleblocker. And now Lefty Klutz was an Alliance Agent. So they're Alliance _____ somethings.
So I presume Pygmy and Cookies are _______ (Some other scum faction).
and as for 2 kills. What if Klutz was the Killer for the Hands group. He might have been killed before his action occured by PygCookies's group. Or he could have been roleblocked. Or he could have been attacking Idle and fucked up to the 50%. Lots of different options possible.
I personally though would like to settle on a Victim. I see that people want to hammer, but why not put your votes down earlier? And just have whoever is gonna hammer Hammer. I dislike the skirting around always at the end, and it makes me think of a scenario where Scum might know that a person has a particular action (such as killing off one person who votes for them -Ala- CatinaNecro's Statements in M:tC) and so the scum are hesitant to be the ones to vote for a particular scum for that reason. It's one reason I'm curious to see if people want to Vote Pygmy vs. People who want to vote for Cookies.
Anyways, yeah.... good job chiming in steven, when your votes up there I'll be happier.
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 18:24:55 GMT -5
Post by dnooman on Oct 22, 2007 18:24:55 GMT -5
I'm starting to rethink the kill Pygmy first idea. We basically know that Cookies is scum, and we know that Pygmy is strongly implicated. Wouldn't it make sense to go for the sure thing first? I know Pygmy might be a more powerful scum, but I'd sure feel a lot better with one less scum walking around for sure. A bird in the hand and all that...
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Parzival
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Let's all strive to do our best today![on:forgot to log out][of:forgot to log in]
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 18:50:51 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on Oct 22, 2007 18:50:51 GMT -5
I may not agree with you on who we should kill first, but that post makes a lot of sense, Roosh.
One kill from the "Blue Hands" would fit in the Firefly theme. Another faction that is both trying to eliminate crew but vulnerable to "Blue Hands" would also fit. Note that "The Operative" worked in a similar fashion as well.
Or Reavers, or maybe they're all Alliance scum.
I think your last point still stands. Now we're just waiting for the votes. There won't be any one-off votes today, so everyone can pick a side and we'll still hit scum.
As for Cookies earlier claim — we shouldn't really trust scum, but I'm wondering at this point what there is to the Fanty/Mingo thing. I'm thinking they're both scum and she made up the story (which keeps her alive if the other is hanged for scum). Or the other one is pro-crew, and is keeping hidden for some reason (I can guess at some, but since we know Cookies is scum, little point in them coming forward).
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 19:32:08 GMT -5
Post by whatthefrak on Oct 22, 2007 19:32:08 GMT -5
Not sure if that image will work, but Holy Fucking Shit. I think that may have just won us the game. Judging from Cookies' post, it is my opinion that Pygmy probably has a killing power, so I'd like to see him out ahead of Cookies. Vote Pygmy
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Gir!
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 19:48:00 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Oct 22, 2007 19:48:00 GMT -5
Man, that picture is totally disgusting, wtf!
Excuse-to-make-this-post Official Vote Count Cookies (5): hockeymonkey, dotchan, panamajack, Pygmy Rugger, Idle Thoughts Pygmy Rugger (6): Roosh, mhaye, dnooman, Hal Briston, Cookies, whatthefrak
(I exalted you for that awful pic! ;D)
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 21:24:30 GMT -5
Post by dnooman on Oct 22, 2007 21:24:30 GMT -5
Not sure if that image will work, but Holy rutting gos se. I think that may have just won us the game. Judging from Cookies' post, it is my opinion that Pygmy probably has a killing power, so I'd like to see him out ahead of Cookies. Vote PygmyWhy does this post bother me? Maybe because any sane townie knows that we're not even close to being out of the woods, even if both Cookies and Pygmy are scum. Your post bothers me (fornicating feces aside).
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 21:45:22 GMT -5
Post by nesta on Oct 22, 2007 21:45:22 GMT -5
So Cookies is scum. But a different scum group than the hands of blue... maybe. Pygmy is almost definitely scum, but says he isn't, but won't claim.
Hm.
I'm a little confused by this part:
In my experience scum don't usually need any type of mod permission to kill someone. Once they've made their choice that's that. This does lend a little credence to the idea that they might have known CK was scum, possibly because they are on the same team. It could be some scheme they were planning. Of course, I'm with Idle that scum killing their own is almost always a bad move. It's been proposed as a possibility in other games and I've never seen a situation where where it would be a good move. I don't think that matters for now, since we'll know Cookies and Pygmy's alignment soon enough, but I do wonder what that was about.
That part makes me think it's more likely that the killing ability is a group ability and not an individual one. She mentions that she doesn't know if Pygmy has submitted his PM yet, where it seems the CK kill was already decided by the group pending the "green light".
One possibility that I don't think has been mentioned is that maybe their CK kill wasn't green lighted for whatever reason and they tried to kill someone else, and some other faction killed CK. Seems unlikely, but I suppose it's possible.
I also don't understand why Cookies would investigate Hal. Hal is all but confirmed by dotchan saying he was River. What more is there to investigate? Maybe Cookies has an ability to find out powers as well as names / alignment? Or if there are two scum factions and the Cookies faction knows it maybe they were trying to find out if Hal was aligned with the other faction?
Overall Cookies role seems rather benign since a good portion of our power-roles are either dead or claimed. Pygmy's ability could be just about anything. I would rather take a stab at stopping a more powerful ability tonight.
Vote Pygmy
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 21:59:50 GMT -5
Post by nesta on Oct 22, 2007 21:59:50 GMT -5
Not sure if that image will work, but Holy rutting gos se. I think that may have just won us the game. Judging from Cookies' post, it is my opinion that Pygmy probably has a killing power, so I'd like to see him out ahead of Cookies. Vote Pygmy Why does this post bother me? Maybe because any sane townie knows that we're not even close to being out of the woods, even if both Cookies and Pygmy are scum. Your post bothers me (fornicating feces aside). That's a good point. It seems no matter which side I'm on I'm always convinced the other side is way ahead. In most of the games I've played I've had moments where I was sure we were going to lose. Sometimes I've been right. I very rarely think I'm going to win until the game is over. Feeling confident the town is going to win isn't a sure scumtell, but from what I've seen it is a minor one. Also, WTF draws a different conclusion about Pygmy having a killing role than I do. Again, not a sure sign of scum, but does give me pause enough to start reconsidering my vote for Pygmy, because if WTF is scum I certainly don't want lynch the choice he wants.
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Gir!
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Day Six
Oct 22, 2007 22:12:29 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Oct 22, 2007 22:12:29 GMT -5
Monday Night Football Vote County Cookies (5): hockeymonkey, dotchan, panamajack, Pygmy Rugger, Idle Thoughts Pygmy Rugger (7): Roosh, mhaye, dnooman, Hal Briston, Cookies, whatthefrak, nesta
12 players out of 15 voting. With 15 alive, 8 votes to lynch.
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