Hockey Monkey!
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This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Oct 27, 2007 20:34:37 GMT -5
MHaye, I don't really know how to respond to those comments other than if atarus had investigated me at that point she would have known I'm crew. She either didn't investigate me or got a wrong read for some reason.
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Post by Zeriel on Oct 27, 2007 22:26:14 GMT -5
And of course, that's exactly what a scum would say too.
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Post by Zeriel on Oct 27, 2007 22:27:20 GMT -5
Slightly more on-topic--Given how much detail that NAF and Kat have been giving us on the dead people's powers and rolenames, is it maybe a red herring to try to extrapolate an ability from "Alliance Agent" when we didn't get anything at time of death?
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 28, 2007 4:37:57 GMT -5
And of course, that's exactly what a scum would say too. :coughs: Um... as a personal friend of Atarus, the man isn't an idiot or a newbie.... If he had found 3 Scum, he would have bloody likely told us. And if he had found ONE scum, he'd also have been quite more obvious about it. I just happen to think its an extraordinary coincidence, and one that's rather out of left field actually. Because I think then if Atarus had seen such a connection, he would have at least tried voting for one of them, or shown a bit more... attention to it other than a small suspicions list. Also, I mentioned already my thoughts on the Agent- as it being a possible recruiter type of role.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 28, 2007 4:42:54 GMT -5
And of course, that's exactly what a scum would say too. Terrible, Terrible smudge there. (-_-) You asked a loaded question to HockeyMonkey, and then no matter what she'd say, you could follow up ANY answer with that line. I dislike that tactic, and just putting you on note about that.... It's suspicious to me.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 28, 2007 4:46:02 GMT -5
My list of Potential people I could see voting for: Cat, Zeriel, Mhaye, nesta.
Just because I find them the most suspicious at the moment. Dnoo is suspicious too, but less so (only under the "recruitment" option, and one i'd like to refrain from thinking about currently). Perhaps a Vig target at worst case if we must, but I don't think a lynch option at all. I'd rather focus on the "unknown players" over the known ones.
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Post by Zeriel on Oct 28, 2007 13:17:58 GMT -5
a) I didn't ask Hockey anything, that was mhaye. =P b) I'm just pointing out the fact that any judgement on mhaye's post rests almost entirely on your assessment of atarus's linked post as a breadcrumb, not on anything hockey can say.
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Post by Zeriel on Oct 28, 2007 13:19:55 GMT -5
last post's "your" is the general one, not addressed specifically at anyone.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 28, 2007 16:50:59 GMT -5
No you haven't made it abundantly clear. I have just read back through all your game posts to Day 1 and there is nothing in them, other than "Oh, I think he is scummy." That's it - no case - no proof. Oh, please. Proof? There is really no proof for anything in this game. What a cop out. The only proof we have is what happens accidently, either by scum slip ups or Mod mistakes. What's this you're asking about proof? Since when does proof require to be shown in order to vote for someone or find someone shady? I've said all through the Days why I find you suspicious. You were on most all the bandwagons on Day One and Two. You seemed more than willing to go after more possible power roles even nearing the last minute (Day One, on the last regular day of it, you were fine with quickly trying to build up votes against someone else). You have consistantly thought and found suspicious all of the people I haven't (and no, that's not scummy in itself, but as I answered someone earlier in this game (might have even been you)...for someone who is such of a difference of opinion of my own all through the game, it just pings me) and even held opinions I thought were wrong or bad. You have this "scum list" in your sig. Like you'd never have to put YOURSELF on this list. It's like a very subtle way to say "ohhh, I could never be scum myself. See? I'm even making a scum list which I call 'My scum list'....why would I do that if I were ever going to have to go on it myself? ;D". You have raised the possibility of recruitment and said, not one but TWO people might have been recruited. I think ONE person is stretching it, myself. We have seen nothing to say recruitment as of yet and more and more I'm thinking Ui was right on most all counts: That names mean squat and recruitment is probably not in this game. So far we've gotten nothing but Alliance members and no third faction, but even if the Alliance are allowed a recruitment, I can see it being ONE person. You seem to be willing to start the shadow of doubt on a possible, two future players. Why? Why are you saying there might possibly be two recruits? I do not see how this is even remotely thinkable and I feel you're just setting up future reasons to vote for someone so you can fall back on the ruse "well I think you've been recruited". And if these five or six reasons weren't enough, you said earlier "I think a good recruitment would have been MadDot or Dnooman because they're all of verified". That's not verbatim, but it's a sum up. But what of me? I was all of confirmed by the MODS themselves. Why leave me out of that post? Here's what I think: You wanted to set up a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation for me...where if I DID point out "what, I'm not more verified then them? Why did you leave me out?" you'd be able to say "hey, you said it, not me" and if I DIDN'T point it out, you'd be like "Wonder why Idle didn't notice this or say anything about it? Could it be because he wanted people to forget he was also confirmed?" So let's see, how many is that? I think that's a lot of things so far..and it all adds up to more and more suspicion on you, at least from me personally. And please, remember this post next time you ask "why do you find me shady"...just so I don't have to say them all again hopefully. I've said most of them a few times already but there they are again.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Oct 28, 2007 17:49:09 GMT -5
Looking back at CatInASuit's posts, what jumps out to me the most (still reading the mess that was Day 1) is that he starts out against lynching people for rolenames, but then he turns around and calls the Ramiro claim a lie with, as I like to say, no indication of how he got from Point A to Point B. (Change of opinion in and of it self I do not consider scummy. But a reversal like this with no explanation does ping me.) So until I get to the rest of his posts, here's a nice pointy FoS. As far as WTF goes, his full claim is that he has a 50% chance of taking the bullet (or bomb, or knife, or whatever) for his protect target, hence my FoS on him earlier (especially since when he claimed Idle Thoughts was still a 100% Doc). Idle's reveal of ANOTHER 50% Doc doesn't seem to make much sense to me, since the whole point of him becoming a 50% Doc in the first place was because the Mods bungled the Night actions and outed him in the Dawn post when he shouldn't have died at all. However, at the moment I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. (And by the way, 2 50% Docs means that a stacked protection has a 1 - .5*.5 = 75% chance of succeeding, not 100%, but I think someone else may have already pointed this out.)
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Post by dnooman on Oct 28, 2007 19:42:53 GMT -5
On recruits: If there was a recruit there would be two obvious players that it would have happened to. MadDotch and dnooman as both those two have pretty cast iron alibis. Personally, I am stumped as to who the remaining scum are as only a couple of people really jump out at me. 1. panamajack - for the mysterious non-night kill description 2. dnooman - for his almost complete attitude change over the last couple of Days. However, it seems that certain people are going to consider me scum no matter what ( Idle Thoughts, I'm looking at you) and I doubt any of points are going to get across, so if you are looking a for desperation lynch target close to the deadline, pick me. However this comment here irks me. Oh, and Vote Cat in the suit. You seem evasive at best, and conniving at worst. Therefore, I vote that you die. No offense. Conniving yes, manipulative, on some occasions, but I have never been evasive at all. Perhaps you could provide some proof of this accusation. Your attitidue change and this ad hominem comment make me think you have been recruited, so [/sub][/quote] What is this attitude change you're talking about? Funny you find me so scummy, yet wait until after I vote for you, to vote for me. You seem like scum trying to frame someone, rather than town looking for scum to me. I agree that I would have made a good choice for recruitment, but we don't even know if that feature exists in this game. I certainly haven't been recruited by anyone.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 28, 2007 20:54:22 GMT -5
Idle's reveal of ANOTHER 50% Doc doesn't seem to make much sense to me, since the whole point of him becoming a 50% Doc in the first place was because the Mods bungled the Night actions and outed him in the Dawn post when he shouldn't have died at all. And? What's your point? There is another Doc in this game that is fifty percent and not WTF. That is for sure. It was told to me upon my being allowed back in the game (and I assume also making up, of sorts, half my powers being taken from me due to a mistake). I don't see why that doesn't make sense. That's why I'm slightly suspicious of WTF therefore. Because why would the mods put in another fifty percent protecting role, I wonder?
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Oct 28, 2007 21:57:22 GMT -5
This is the post I'm referring to, Idle. And because I know firsthand that sometimes the truth can be stranger than fiction, I'm willing to believe you.
My suspicion of WTF remains based on the reasons I FoSed him over at the start of toDay.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 28, 2007 23:39:31 GMT -5
PanamaJack, what are your thoughts on WTF, and Cat and the others? As for myself, I do dislike contradictory behavior, one that Dotchan has pointed out. and yes, creating "Scum" lists, I dislike them in profiles. Same w/ "Dotchan's I'm totally a townie" sig. ALWAYS makes me want to lynch her when i read that profile. But for now, since i like keeping my vote SOMEwhere on the board: Vote CatinASuit And I'd consider you to have a "cast iron" alibi perhaps in the earlier stages of the Game too, with people unvoting you for a name claim. You'd be a great target, because you're not too clean, but you were not scummy looking at the time. I always tend to think Scum have the mentality "If you can't lynch 'em, use em" sorta views. And you'd also be perfect for a recruit in the early stages. but you don't consider that option it seems. (MtS, and Dnoo are also two other good candidates true. But again, i'd rather leave that to others than to a town lynch- because their scumminess in In Game behaviors is kinda low. It's only that "Recruit possibility" only that I dislike). Though I still think the unknowns should say something more.... They're the ones I'm most worried about. Why haven't we heard from them as much?
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 29, 2007 0:08:21 GMT -5
This is the post I'm referring to, Idle. And because I know firsthand that sometimes the truth can be stranger than fiction, I'm willing to believe you. My suspicion of WTF remains based on the reasons I FoSed him over at the start of toDay. Yes, but what about that post makes you have the (apparently minor) feeling of things not "making sense"? Even if it's a little?
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 29, 2007 1:13:05 GMT -5
Oh, please. Proof? There is really no proof for anything in this game. What a cop out. The only proof we have is what happens accidently, either by scum slip ups or Mod mistakes. What's this you're asking about proof? Since when does proof require to be shown in order to vote for someone or find someone shady? Actually what most people require is for the accuser to put down in text the reasons why think someone is scummy - which until this point you had singularly failed to do. I've said all through the Days why I find you suspicious. You were on most all the bandwagons on Day One and Two. You seemed more than willing to go after more possible power roles even nearing the last minute (Day One, on the last regular day of it, you were fine with quickly trying to build up votes against someone else). You have consistantly thought and found suspicious all of the people I haven't (and no, that's not scummy in itself, but as I answered someone earlier in this game (might have even been you)...for someone who is such of a difference of opinion of my own all through the game, it just pings me) and even held opinions I thought were wrong or bad. So half of your reasoning for me being scum is that I don't think like you or have a different opinion, and we have already done the bandwagon possiblities to death already. You have this "scum list" in your sig. Like you'd never have to put YOURSELF on this list. It's like a very subtle way to say "ohhh, I could never be scum myself. See? I'm even making a scum list which I call 'My scum list'....why would I do that if I were ever going to have to go on it myself? ;D Wow. Idle Thoughts. That is what I call reaching. I mean to Mars and back kind of reaching. Go and read the names of the fucking scum list and tell me which one of those people has not been confirmed as a scum in this game already. Are you really that desperate for scum tells that you have to resort to saying he is keeping a list of the confirmed scum in his sig. Sheesh!!! ". You have raised the possibility of recruitment and said, not one but TWO people might have been recruited. I think ONE person is stretching it, myself. We have seen nothing to say recruitment as of yet and more and more I'm thinking Ui was right on most all counts: That names mean squat and recruitment is probably not in this game. So far we've gotten nothing but Alliance members and no third faction, but even if the Alliance are allowed a recruitment, I can see it being ONE person. You seem to be willing to start the shadow of doubt on a possible, two future players. Why? Why are you saying there might possibly be two recruits? I do not see how this is even remotely thinkable and I feel you're just setting up future reasons to vote for someone so you can fall back on the ruse "well I think you've been recruited". My Quote: If there was a recruit there would be two obvious players that it would have happened to.Still looking for the part where I say there are two recruits... Still looking hard... Still Looking... Nope, stil not found anything. Guess it wasn't there after all. And if these five or six reasons weren't enough, you said earlier "I think a good recruitment would have been MadDot or Dnooman because they're all of verified". That's not verbatim, but it's a sum up. But what of me? I was all of confirmed by the MODS themselves. Why leave me out of that post? Here's what I think: You wanted to set up a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation for me...where if I DID point out "what, I'm not more verified then them? Why did you leave me out?" you'd be able to say "hey, you said it, not me" and if I DIDN'T point it out, you'd be like "Wonder why Idle didn't notice this or say anything about it? Could it be because he wanted people to forget he was also confirmed?" Actually, I would be more than interested in where this idea of two recruits came from. I would also like to know why you are saying there is a second doctor out there, because I haven't seen anything other your statement on it. Oh, and I can quite believe that there is a Doctor and Bodyguard type roles in a game at startup. The fact you are throwing around suspicion because you have said there are now 3 x 50% block roles is in itself suspicious. So let's see, how many is that? I think that's a lot of things so far..and it all adds up to more and more suspicion on you, at least from me personally. And please, remember this post next time you ask "why do you find me shady"...just so I don't have to say them all again hopefully. I've said most of them a few times already but there they are again. Well, seeing as this is the first time you have put down any reasoning of your suspicions on me, I won't exactly have much to bookmark will I?
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Oct 29, 2007 10:02:21 GMT -5
Yes, but what about that post makes you have the (apparently minor) feeling of things not "making sense"? Even if it's a little? The part about "I think that this is a solution that preserves the balance of the game and is more or less fair to everyone."
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Post by NAF1138 on Oct 29, 2007 10:20:20 GMT -5
Who likes vote counts?
3- CatinaSuit (Idle Thought, dnooman, Roosh) 1- Dnooman (CatInASuit)
4 of 12 votes cast. With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
And you have about 30 hours left until the deadline. Just a heads up.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 29, 2007 13:49:30 GMT -5
Motherfuckers.... -_- Come on Guys! WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU ALL?
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 29, 2007 13:50:19 GMT -5
Wait. we should have till the 30th right? Or am I missing something?
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 29, 2007 13:50:46 GMT -5
oh. I read that as 30 mins, okay we do have 30 hours.... -_- Phew.
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Parzival
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Post by Parzival on Oct 29, 2007 14:20:34 GMT -5
Still, 30 hours ain't much.
I had a busy weekend, and didn't get any analysis on the game in. So no vote from me until tonight.
Roosh, you asked me what I thought about other people. whatthefrak I'm still wondering about, but willing to keep around. After further consideration, I haven't seen much scummy behavior from him; it's more of something to keep in mind. I also realized why you wouldn't become a scum target with your protection (if you're telling the truth).
As for the doctor's role being split - if whatthefrak is really a 50% Bodyguard, then adding another doctor role wouldn't have changed it, and wouldn't have neeed to. The shift to two 50% Doctors seems fair (combined, they're weaker than a 100% Doctor, but it sort of makes up for the fact that Idle could easily have become a scum target). In short, I don't think they have anything to do with each other.
As for anyone else - if I haven't listed them, it's probably because I think them to be more likely crew than scum. This goes for CatinaSuit as well. His long-standing suspicion of me seems more like honest crew than scum. He has done other suspicious things in the past, but he's on the good side of the scum/crew line in my mind.
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 29, 2007 16:05:43 GMT -5
Ok, So I have been going back over various posts seeing as I am currently on the block anyway. Not to put to fine a point on it, I think I got investigated by atarus on Night 2. The day before atarus was definitely of the opinion that I was scum, which kind of disappeared after that night. (Yes, I know I would say this, but I would like someone to go back and check to make sure I am not just seeing what I want to see). I think atarus found Captain Klutz and drainbead scummy from their actions, however, one thing did pop out of nowhere. Day 3: #214 Mhaye not voting at all strikes me as very suspicious. I remember lots of posts about him "looking through information" and "I'll post something informative soon" but he never seems to get around to it. He appears helpful without having to help. I do have an issue with voting for him at the moment, though, since he's going to be travelling soon and I think he won't be around to defend himself at Day's end, and I don't want to force somebody to the gallows without the chance to roleclaim. MHaye is not really mentioned anywhere else, so for this to pop up was unusual. It was also the day before atarus was nightkilled and, to my eyes, is the only odd standout curiousity of the day. I also looked over MHaye's posts. He has definitely been flying below the radar and there has not been much in the way of analysis from him at all. My current thinking on people is as follows: Recruit fodderDnooman dotchan Idle Thoughts Likely to be townHal Briston Hockey Monkey SuspectsRoosh whatthefrak mhaye nesta panamajack Zeriel TownCatinaSuit with MHaye as my current #1 suspect. More analysis as and when I have a bit of time.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 29, 2007 16:17:49 GMT -5
Actually what most people require is for the accuser to put down in text the reasons why think someone is scummy - which until this point you had singularly failed to do. Not true. I've said them before. I clearly remember saying before: "You've been on almost all of the bandwagons thus far and I find this suspicious" at least twice before since the game started. Half? I can see it being half if I said: I find you suspicious for [various reason] and because you have such differing opinions from my own..since that is only two things. That thing is more like 1/6th or 1/7th of my reasons, but nice attempt at twisting it. Go and read the names of the rutting scum list and tell me which one of those people has not been confirmed as a scum in this game already.[/quote] What does this have to do with anything? What a strawman. My point was..why do you feel the need to keep it in your sig at all? I think we remember. I think there's other places to look. So why the "CatInASuit" scumlist? Seems like you're just making it seem like you're a bit too official. Like you're so obviously Town and you'd never have to go on your own scumlist. Maybe you really are and maybe you aren't, but regardless, I feel that looks shady. Your wording there is iffy at best, though. I'd have used the word "could" myself, but that's a nitpick. Still, "would" seems to imply more (at least to me) that it happened, whereas "could" leaves the possibility of neither of them being recruited OR only one of them being recruited. But all of this aside, earlier, in post number 20, you say: I would guess at 2 more scum + a recruit at some stage out of the remaining 12 players. This is what I must have seen and I heartily disagree. I don't see how it's possible there are a possible three scum remaining and don't know how anyone could think that. I can see one and MAYBE two more scum remaining right now...but three? That seems like way too many. But in any event, time will tell. And that's where you're going to get it from. I was told by the mods and they left it for me to be the only one who knows (other than the other Doc themselves) and make my own choice whether to tell you or not. At this point, I think any info on the table helps Town just as much as scum. Sure, but why, now, are there three fifty percent protective roles? Seems too stacked in Town's favor....but hey, if it's true then it's a great thing. I don't see how. Well, seeing as this is the first time you have put down any reasoning of your suspicions on me, I won't exactly have much to bookmark will I? I've said them before.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 29, 2007 16:22:09 GMT -5
Yes, but what about that post makes you have the (apparently minor) feeling of things not "making sense"? Even if it's a little? The part about "I think that this is a solution that preserves the balance of the game and is more or less fair to everyone." Ohhh, okay. So you're saying that it's more probable that there's another Doc like me and that I shouldn't nessecarily find WTF suspicious over it?
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 29, 2007 16:27:36 GMT -5
My current thinking on people is as follows: Recruit fodderDnooman dotchan Idle Thoughts If I'm remembering the standard rules correctly, the scum cannot recruit any longer (if they haven't already used it) when the leader is dead. Dunno if that's he case in this game but I'd say it seems more likely than not. So I feel there's a very good chance that IF they do have a recruitment option and they didn't get to use it yet, they probably can't anymore.
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Death By Irony
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Post by Death By Irony on Oct 29, 2007 16:54:27 GMT -5
*reads atarus' posts*
Hm...that does make it look marginally better for you, Cat, but you're by no means cleared since we can't ask atarus who he actually investigated until after the game.
Relying on a dead Cop's breadcrumbs didn't work out all that well for the town in M5, so I'm not going to use atarus' suspicions (or lack there of) on anybody.
Idle, what I meant was I thought it made no sense for there to be another 50% Doc (because I interpreted their statement on "balance" is that they took away half your powers as compensation for you being mod-confirmed). Plus, WTF claimed way back when you were still a 100% Doc, so I don't quite understand why you find him more suspicious NOW with this extra bit of information under your belt.
(Am I not coming across clearly enough to people? This was what I already said in my previous posts.)
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Parzival
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Post by Parzival on Oct 29, 2007 17:03:51 GMT -5
Ok, So I have been going back over various posts seeing as I am currently on the block anyway. Not to put to fine a point on it, I think I got investigated by atarus on Night 2. The day before atarus was definitely of the opinion that I was scum, which kind of disappeared after that night. I didn't want to be pointing this out too much unless you were really close to being lynched, but I'm pretty sure you're right on that. I think a very relevant post is 4.42. The astute will notice that atarus was dead on Day 4. That's actually a post by Klutz, known scum. (I did a complete check on him the Day we killed dotchan, and then he was dead the next Day, of course). It really struck me that Klutz had decided that he hadn't investigated Cat based on this, because I had read the exact same thing and came to the conclusion that atarus probably had checked him. He also says it favors Roosh, but you could go either way on Roosh from that. Klutz had already seemed to be going after Cat, so I think it more likely he was trying to maintain suspicion on CatinaSuit. I'm not completely convinced that CatinaSuit is crew, but I really think anyone voting for him should consider this detail.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 29, 2007 18:38:28 GMT -5
Idle, what I meant was I thought it made no sense for there to be another 50% Doc (because I interpreted their statement on "balance" is that they took away half your powers as compensation for you being mod-confirmed). How not? How doesn't it make sense that there's another 50 percent Doc? I don't understand what you're saying there. It is still balanced as far as I can tell. I am no longer a sure thing to survive the Night if I protect myself. Half my powers are gone. Sure another person gets that half but that doesn't make a difference because: 1. Neither of us will ever be FULLY protected again; it relies on chance and 2. Our powers combined has even been shown (once by yourself) to be even less than my full powers were. So we are clearly at some kind of disadvantage. So no idea how that couldn't make sense. It doesn't matter if it makes sense to you or not really. It is what is true. It is what is fact. I know it. You don't yet...but if anyone really wants to lynch me again just to see I'm still Simon Tam Town, then have fun warding off the suspicion Tomorrow. Please note, I'm not saying anyone is saying this...so don't bother starting on the "Who's saying lynch you?" , I'm just saying...there is no reason, as far as I know, to doubt what I say right now. Unless you find me suspicious.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 29, 2007 19:39:51 GMT -5
On Atarus's breadcrumbs. I've come to the conclusion that D3.104 was not a breadcrumb of his three investigations. I decided this after reviewing his voting record. In Day 1 and Day 2, Atarus never finished the Day with a vote on a player. He made three votes and rescinded them. Having recently played an investigator type (in MV) I was careful to qualify my votes because I didn't want the Town to think they were breadcrumbs if I turned up dead - unless they were based on investigations. Atarus appears to me (in hindsight) to have adopted a similar mentality. I think he did investigate Drainbead, on night 3. His suspicion of HM was thus not based on investigation; if it was, he may well have voted for her at some time in those three Days, and he didn't. Separate issue. Idle Thoughts, I quite understand where Mad.Chan is coming from. You lost effectiveness to compensate the Alliance for the Mods announcing you were the Doctor. Why does the Town deserve compensation for the scum's compensation for the Mods mistake? That being said,, I can see no reason for a Crew-aligned player to make that little detail up.
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