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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 29, 2007 22:18:01 GMT -5
Why does the Town deserve compensation for the scum's compensation for the Mods mistake? I don't understand...I think there was more compensation deserved for Town than scum, maybe even none for scum other than the fact that I was mod-confirmed....but since I was, the minor thing they decided was apparently to split me into two people, per se, each with a 50 percent chance. I don't see how that's any more leverage for Town then it is for scum. They made a mistake so they tried to treat both sides fair with a solution. The scum had one thing against them: A confirmed player. Town had a few: Me dead when I wasn't supposed to be, then me alive again but only fifty percent powers, and all of this coming off of Dio (who was Town) being modkilled for making a mistake. So yeah, I can easily see how "well okay, he'll be brought back, but instead he'll have only half his powers and someone else will have the other half" would be making things as close to being equal as they can. Again, believe it or not. But it's how things are. Sense or no sense. Fair or not fair. Confusion or no confusion. That's a fact.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 29, 2007 23:33:12 GMT -5
I am of the mind that Atarus would have let us know if he had found scum in a bit more obvious way, so I'm thinking he had bread crumbed possible Townies. But which ones is the problem.... And even if he had said someone was town- Ie: Cat[/]b, a few days have passed since then, and we killed pygmy on day 6, that's still 2 nights of recruitment available.
Also, One must consider this- Scum were trying to kill off Klutz, but WHY? What could they have been up to with that move? Because I had been getting a scummy vibe, up until about the day before he died or so, he was the one who pointed out possible Atarus crumbs (between Cat and Myself). It was at that point, I was curiously torn- because he was acting townie there trying to give/deduce info, but also it was helpfulness that was coming from left field, but due to the inactivity i suppose I just chalked it up to him being active again.
That's why I disliked Day 1&2, with all the non-voters and such. I don't know which of the players who are currently silent are just lurking, and which are simply too busy to post. I check the "away" boards, but I see nothing.
But my feelings are Torn. Atarus could have made a crumb to Cat. As it did seem like he investigated Cat or myself, and if he dropped the issue of pursuing Cat, then that's def. a BIG favor in his side. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Idle, he has stated the other 50% doc idea, and I'm willing to believe him. Mainly because he's MOD CONFIRMED. And I have NO reason to dispute that, so trying to WIFOM on the doctors is a pointless endeavor and perhaps even a scummy fishing route to find the #3 doc, I'd think. I don't like that line of thinking, and we should just accept Idle's ideas and drop it. Only because he HAS been mod confirmed. ~~~~~~~~
My Dilemma on CatinTheSuit currently. The atarus crumb could be a huge point in his favor. Also, I know Idle is a very... passionate person, and so perhaps Idle is biased in his views vs. Cat, so I will try to base my opinions less on that, because I think Idle vs. Cat is a futile path to search down.
But then who to vote for? My #2 and 3 most suspicious people are: Mhaye (I hated his idleness, and he's now becoming more and more helpful, but i wonder. "MHaye is not really mentioned anywhere else, so for this to pop up was unusual. It was also the day before atarus was nightkilled and, to my eyes, is the only odd standout curiousity of the day. " -Cat. Now... this is just WIFOM.... But I wonder.... Mainly because MtgMan was killed during the night when he pointed out he wanted to post some info in the morning. I'm thinking our scum want to decrease the info posted, and Klutz did make the breadcrumbing post the next day... But I wonder if Scum had realized the Cop was Atarus? If such is the case, then my Gut tells me to look at Mhaye, because he seems like the type of player to repeat such an act. However, there were 2 kills the night the Cop died, and we don't know if Atarus was killed by scum or by the other group.... I suppose only the other killer knows that info, and all we can do is wait for him to Snitch.
But yeah, Mhaye is #2 on my list. And #3 is Nesta, but that's mainly for Sinjin's actions. And her claiming she had an "anti-town name" and that she had a minor power role.... I wonder about her, while since then Nesta has been QUITE under the radar, which is different from his Mason days in Asylum.... And My #4 just for fun is probably Zeriel, another person quite under the radar in my eyes.
The people who haven't been voting are the ones who I dislike currently. I tend to find those who have NOT voted on bandwagons or at all suspicious. Because Scum come in layers. So far Cookies, Pygmy (VERY MUCH SO), and Drainbead all have been active voting scum.... This makes me think the last member was likely to be the quiet scum. Cookie and Drain seemed to be avg in the middle with thier votes, while Pygmy was ALWAYS on every Vote, because of his Hammer tactic. So I believe the remaining scummer is likely to be hidden and hasn't been as actively voting early on, and slowly increasing in votes and activity since then.
-Mhaye fits this pattern. -Sinjin did not, she was QUITE the voter, but Nesta has been much more subdued. -Yattara was replaced early on, and Zeriel has been quite active on teh voting. Day 3 gives interesting pauses though: He and Hockeymonkey are the only people who've voted for drainbead and haven't made some sort of a claim as to who they are.... But if we deduce from the ScumNote that Hockey is town, that leaves only Zeriel as the "unknown" voter on that wagon. A wagon that already had cookies and pygmy on it. Would scum be so zealous as to send 3 of their own vs. drainbead? (Drain and klutz the other 2 scum were actually voting for Cookies... in another wagon that's fully Identified on Day 5)
I've still gotta look at the voting more so esp. for day 3.... But that's where my head is currently.
When I vote, I'll probably vote for one of the top 3 people on my list.....
Unvote Cat
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 29, 2007 23:35:44 GMT -5
Ugh. That's an ugly post... so damn long and winding... Maybe I'll make a clearer one later.
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Post by dnooman on Oct 29, 2007 23:57:56 GMT -5
Dude, this sucks alot.
Town has no leader, and we're either on a wild goose chase, or a misguided lynch wagon. I'm betting we don't make the right choice in time, and the scum capitalize on it.
This is VERY frustrating.
Actual town needs to step up, NOW! United we stand, divided we fall. This is bull puckey.
Why are we so impotent?
If the low posters are scum, they played a cheap game. If the low posters are town, they let everyone else down via their lack of participation.
I'm very disheartened right now.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 30, 2007 0:18:35 GMT -5
I feel you, man....
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 30, 2007 0:57:51 GMT -5
Mod Question:
What exactly does an Alliance Agent do?
It's not obvious and inquiring minds would like to know.
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 30, 2007 1:00:14 GMT -5
One thing to point out to all, is that the Scum did have their own investigator and could well have been working through the townies trying to find our power roles to knock them off.
If Cookies did find the town detective on one night, I would hazard a guess he would be dead by the end of the next night.
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 30, 2007 5:05:48 GMT -5
Oh yes, before I forget, the reason for the CatInASuit scumlist.
It is there because I was pretty convinced that Cookies was scum and I was looking forward to putting it into my sig that I was right about at least one scum.
Yup, I was right about one scum ;D
I tell you what Idle Thoughts, if I'm lynched and I turn out to be scum, I'll add my name to the list. Just for you.
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Post by Zeriel on Oct 30, 2007 7:39:24 GMT -5
"If I'm lynched and turn out to be scum." Heh.
At this point, I'd be comfortable with a vote for mhaye, Roosh, dnooman, and catinasuit in that order:
mhaye for being all quiet and mysterious and crap. We keep getting promises of a big reveal but we never see it. I'm getting sick of that, myself, and it could easily be a way for a scum to act as though they were being all helpful townie.
Roosh for his effectively "I won't ever be nightkilled" roleclaim that's counterproductive in context (shouldn't he have wanted scum to kill him?), and for making lots of bad/wrong statements about what I said on top of Page 3 then blithely ignoring my clarifications and corrections of his mistaken quote. That felt too much like a subtle character assassination.
Catinasuit for, as Idle says, that general scummy vibe. He seems to be coming across as knowing too much. I couldn't REALLY get behind this one that hard, but I wouldn't cry either. Weakest case of the three.
dnooman for that last little bit there, where we need a town leader and all the good townies need to come out and start playing hard--sincere and misguided, or cover for a charismatic scum to try to start making decisions for town like Kyrie was sorta doing in Sekham's endgame?
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Post by Zeriel on Oct 30, 2007 7:40:11 GMT -5
vote mhaye
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 30, 2007 8:13:10 GMT -5
A few more thoughts and analysis Idle Thoughts and his multiple doctors. He gave this info the same day he died and before he could be recruited, so it is legit.
As for scum hunting, we can look for recruits (if they exist) another time
unvote dnooman
Given the number of people in the game, I would expect at least 5/6 scum with 1 recruit. What is surprising to me, is the number of scum power roles, as opposed to the town power roles.
This little exchange on the start of Day 2 is interesting though.
#27. I note Yattara/Zeriel as Shiny (almost certain crew person) in to a list of players #28. Diomedes says she is not off the non-shiny list with reasoning #29. Diomedes fluff post #30. Pygmy Rugger says we cannot assume crew and gives reasoning #31. MHaye says we cannot assume crew and gives reasoning #32. Captain Klutz says the only people he would put in the shiny catagory would be dnooman, Mad, and possibly Yattara with no reasoning.
Given that Pygmy Rugger and Captain Klutz were both scum, what does this say about yattara/zeriel.
Also would we expect 3 scum in a row to turn up and start going on about yattara/zeriel? I think it is quite possible.
So, in terms of possible scum.
In order, I am still suspicious of: MHaye, following a possible atarus breadcrumb and the above exchange. zeriel, also because of the above exchange. panamajack: for the mysterious night killer which has yet to be explained in any way
So with that.
vote MHaye.
If I find anything else, I will bring it to attention.
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Post by NAF1138 on Oct 30, 2007 10:03:59 GMT -5
Mod Question: What exactly does an Alliance Agent do?It's not obvious and inquiring minds would like to know. Alliance Agent=Vanilla scum
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Post by NAF1138 on Oct 30, 2007 10:10:06 GMT -5
With less then 8 hours to go we have...4 of a possible 12 votes reporting?
Looks like my dusk post is going to be extra boring today.
2-CatinaSuit (Idle Thought, dnooman)
2-mhaye (zeriel, CatInASuit)
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Tick tock.
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 30, 2007 10:13:53 GMT -5
Mod Question: What exactly does an Alliance Agent do?It's not obvious and inquiring minds would like to know. Alliance Agent=Vanilla scum Thanks NAF - at least we can rest assured that not all the Scum roles were power roles
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 30, 2007 10:20:49 GMT -5
a) I didn't ask Hockey anything, that was mhaye. =P I didn't know you wanted an apology. I had made the correction in my head, and had been since the comment. I just felt no need to point it out explicitly. (I assume this is the quote you are referring to). But I still don't like your answer though. But that's just I dislike anyone who does that, where you take someone being attacked and called them Defensive for it, or you give the WIFOM answer in a mean way. I didn't know if you were being sarcastic or not. If you were, then its fine, if you werent.... Then where are you going with it? It's just a smudge. But yeah, I had "fixed" it in my head who said what part.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 30, 2007 10:27:43 GMT -5
Vote Mhaye
It's been a long time coming from me.... "Mr. I'm a slow and methodical voter" It's been REALLY unhelpful to the town, and I think you'd be the perfect candidate for a scum lurker. I've been watching your other games, and nowhere has it been this slow... and also with the promises of Info that is to come... and then never does. I'm the master of that! But i learned my lesson on Day 1, people hate the "I've got a magic bag, lets wait and see" tactic! So I've changed.... You... have been to quiet to show yes or noes in your progress.
And with the fact that Agent Scum means vanilla.... Wow, I didn't think that'd work. Just ASKING the mod outright.... That makes me feel a bit better about the non-recruiting, and if that's the case, i certainly don't want to lynch Cat, Dnoo, Mad, or such currently....
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 30, 2007 10:33:18 GMT -5
Roosh for his effectively "I won't ever be nightkilled" roleclaim that's counterproductive in context (shouldn't he have wanted scum to kill him?) But I don't want the Vig to kill me. As that'll just kill 2 of us. And plus, again... I don't mind scum trying at all to kill me at this point of the game. And when i claimed, I was new to it all. I claimed on Day 1, and was the first "power" role to do so (Dnoo did claim town), and so I was just putting the stuff out there, I didn't know what I should have kept closer or not at the time, now I realize... yeah, i didn't need to reveal it all. But if you go look back, I revealed at like 3am in the night in my time zone, and it was a spontaneous decision on a fear of a misplaced lynch. So I'd chalk that up to nerves and emotion more. Anyways, I gots an exam to study for now. I'll try to check back in the evenings. But my time today will be limited.
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Post by Hal Briston on Oct 30, 2007 11:13:42 GMT -5
The people who haven't been voting are the ones who I dislike currently. I tend to find those who have NOT voted on bandwagons or at all suspicious. Because Scum come in layers. So far Cookies, Pygmy (VERY MUCH SO), and Drainbead all have been active voting scum.... This makes me think the last member was likely to be the quiet scum. Let's be careful with that idea -- time and again scum have shown that the aspects of play that they "always" show aren't necessarily accurate. Maybe there is a quiet scum, maybe they're playing this one with no quiet scum. Only the scum know for sure. Roosh for his effectively "I won't ever be nightkilled" roleclaim I seem to have missed that claim. I see Roosh himself mentions it in Reply #106, but I never noticed. Would you (or anyone) mind pointing it out to me? Now then, I really hope atarus dropped that crumb intentionally, because it looks really telling to me. Here's hoping: Vote MHaye
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 30, 2007 11:53:14 GMT -5
It's not a "I can't be nightkilled" -That's Zeriel's wording. But on Day 1, when I role claimed, and named claimed, I stated that if I'm attacked at night there is a 50% chance of me taking out my attacker as well. I would still die. But there is a chance that I would be able to defend somewhat, and defeat my attacker. The wording of my PM makes me believe any offensive actions may set me off, so I'm not sure what would happen if an "easter bunny" or such came upon me. None the less, I've yet to encounter one at night. That's why this entire game, Dotchan's various forms keep calling me "the Bomb". I've also stated later on that the chances may not be true. It may be 33%, 66%, 75%, or 25% even. But my initial Role claim number i stated was 50%. It should be on Day 1 (around posts 600-750ish if i recall), but you'll have to check the Klutz files for it, as its eated on these boards.
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Post by Parzival on Oct 30, 2007 12:09:17 GMT -5
Neck pain's made me cut down my computing a lot, so I haven't researched everyone on my list.
At this point, I'm voting for mhaye. I don't know about the breadcrumb for sure, but he does seem to have been a little too in the background.
When deciding between Pygmy Rugger and Cookies, one thing stuck out a bit - he said that Pygmy was "clearly" the head. As far as I could tell, the only possible clues were Cookies's slip and maybe Pygmy's "Godfather" comment, but nothing that I'd call "clearly". I'm comfortable enough voting for him.
vote MHaye
I have a feeling he may not be awake for a claim, but at this point I don't think we have many power roles left anyway.
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Post by Hal Briston on Oct 30, 2007 12:22:52 GMT -5
It's not a "I can't be nightkilled" -That's Zeriel's wording. But on Day 1, when I role claimed, and named claimed, I stated that if I'm attacked at night there is a 50% chance of me taking out my attacker as well. Ahh, ok -- I remember that. Ok, thanks for the clarification.
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Hockey Monkey!
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Oct 30, 2007 12:53:17 GMT -5
I will go ahead and vote for MHaye as well, based on an overall vibe, but especially in the last few posts, some valid points have been made. Panamajack's in particular is what cemented the decision.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Oct 30, 2007 12:53:56 GMT -5
I think that makes 6 for MHaye.
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Post by NAF1138 on Oct 30, 2007 13:05:29 GMT -5
VOTE COUNT:
6 - mhaye (Zeriel, CatInASuit, Roosh, Hal Briston, panamajack, Hockey Monkey)
2 - CatinaSuit (Idle Thought, dnooman)
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
8 of 12 votes reporting.
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Post by nesta on Oct 30, 2007 13:23:48 GMT -5
I've been checking back through some of CatinaSuit's posts and I'm more comfortable voting for him than MHaye. I don't have enough of a read on MHaye yet.
I wish I had time to make a good case against Cat right now, but work is keeping me busy.
One post that stood out to me while reviewing Day 1 was post 1.605 where he says:
[bold and italics added]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far we haven't seen any other alliance citizens, just crew. He seemed to be guessing there at what everyone else was going to come up as and guessed wrong.
Yes, we've long stopped meta-gaming based on PM text but looking back Cat seemed rather confused around that time, and I missed out on the chance to play the PM text game the first time around. If anyone else wants to look back through the Day 1 PM text confusion you'll see that there was Cat with a number of posts that don't seem quite right.
Vote CatinaSuit
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 30, 2007 13:54:34 GMT -5
I've been checking back through some of CatinaSuit's posts and I'm more comfortable voting for him than MHaye. I don't have enough of a read on MHaye yet. I wish I had time to make a good case against Cat right now, but work is keeping me busy. One post that stood out to me while reviewing Day 1 was post 1.605 where he says: [bold and italics added] Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far we haven't seen any other alliance citizens, just crew. He seemed to be guessing there at what everyone else was going to come up as and guessed wrong. Yes, we've long stopped meta-gaming based on PM text but looking back Cat seemed rather confused around that time, and I missed out on the chance to play the PM text game the first time around. If anyone else wants to look back through the Day 1 PM text confusion you'll see that there was Cat with a number of posts that don't seem quite right. Vote CatinaSuitDay 1 Post #506 from dnooman - his roleclaim. My name is Sheriff Bourne. Don't let that mislead you, it not a cop role. I have no special powers. I am an Alliance citizen, however, I am a vanilla crewperson with the alignment "crew". My win condition requires all Alliance to be dead. Care to comment nesta??
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Post by nesta on Oct 30, 2007 14:01:41 GMT -5
That's what happens when I post from work with limited time. When I said "any other" alliance citizens I was actually referring to dnooman's claim, as in any others than dnooman's, since that's what you were talking about in the post of yours I quoted.
Care to comment on the real point of my post, that you were guessing about what real townies were called at the time and latched onto one that doesn't match the rest of us?
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Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 30, 2007 14:05:40 GMT -5
I don't have much of a roleclaim.
I am Branden Shaw. Loke many others, I am a hardworking citizen of the Alliance who is Crew aligned.
This isn't a scumtell, Nesta; the role PMs used "Alliance" in two contexts; Citizenship and alignment. Only alignment counts for Alliance-ness.
I fear people have forgotten that the hypothesis I was working on at the befinning of Day 3 collapsed under the weight of lack of evidence. It was an impression that two people were staging a fight. I guessed that this was staged scum v scum. Since I could not support that impression on a reread I declined to name them, since naming them would just be smudging for no purpose.
Since then, the death of one of the participants showed the impression was definitively wrong.
I couldn't support the other thing bothering me either, which was ironic because it turned out that I was correct in my suspicion.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 30, 2007 14:14:36 GMT -5
Fun with typos. I am Branden Shaw. Like many others, I am a hardworking citizen of the Alliance who is Crew aligned. I fear people have forgotten that the hypothesis I was working on at the beginning of Day 3 collapsed under the weight of lack of evidence. Italics mark the spelling corrections.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Oct 30, 2007 14:22:26 GMT -5
Why does the Town deserve compensation for the scum's compensation for the Mods mistake? I don't understand...I think there was more compensation deserved for Town than scum, maybe even none for scum other than the fact that I was mod-confirmed....but since I was, the minor thing they decided was apparently to split me into two people, per se, each with a 50 percent chance. Fundamentally I disagree with this. The overall effect of you dying and being restored to the gamne by the Mods was that the Mods had announced your role name and alignment. Thus the Alliance were harmed because the pool of lurkers in which they could hide had been reduced and they still had to find a way round you.
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