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Post by texcat on Sept 10, 2011 12:38:50 GMT -5
The reporter and the town drunk are the only unempoddable roles. If either of them claim, the sheriff and the MS can ensure they are never compromised until late in the game. The NR has the added benefit of knowing who the power roles are and can confirm role claims on later days. We had decided in the zoo mafia game that it made sense for the detective to claim immediately and be protected anonymously by the doc. I suspect Red's trying to see if that strategy works here. I think it would except recruitment throws a wrench into the works. Underlined for emphasis. If either of them claim, but not if both of them claim. And at some point we are going to want the drunk to claim because he is going to have info for us. The reporter should only claim to refute a scummy claim of another power role. It would be better for the reporter to refute a scummy sheriff claim than for the actual sheriff to outo himself to refute it.
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Post by Dirx on Sept 10, 2011 12:39:54 GMT -5
Dirx, you're right you haven't voted yet. That was a mistake on my part. You did point out Jan's assumption though: So, you're voting for me because I pointed out a case where a player was seemingly using information that wasn't publicly available to the rest of us? And did you bother reading anything else I've said on the matter? I honestly don't understand your case.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Sept 10, 2011 13:40:08 GMT -5
So some folk are advocating a partial unprovoked claim on Day One in order to...what, exactly?
I've read the last two pages two times and it's still not making any sense to me.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 10, 2011 13:45:39 GMT -5
Well, that's what I think we're trying to figure out.
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Post by Silver Jan on Sept 10, 2011 14:21:14 GMT -5
Well, that's what I think we're trying to figure out. This is just driving me ....... How on earth are we going to find scum?
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Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 10, 2011 14:39:18 GMT -5
Well, if all 5 roles claimed today we'd have a 5 person bloc of confirmed town which would drop the pool of potential MPPs to 10. But then all the power roles would get picked off or recruited. I think the power of today will be revealed in who interacts with whom as scum get revealed and killed in later days.
Do you have any suggestions for finding scum?
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Post by Dirx on Sept 10, 2011 14:58:11 GMT -5
Anyone outed is at risk of getting killed, if they're not already sampled for recruitment. So let's say the Nosy Reporter claims.
The Mad Scientist can delay recruitment, but only on the Night that player gets recruited. Very hard to guess this early in the game. Can guarantee the NR doesn't suicide-by-recruitment, so long as the serum is used on that player every Night.
The Mad Scientist is most effective when getting info from the Town Drunk. Why waste the serum every Night on a player that's not even sampled, y'know? So the TD checks in on the NR that Night.
Well, now that's two roles outed (the MS doesn't have to be outed). Scum will want to kill them, so now the Sheriff needs to play the WIFOM game with scum and decide to protect either the NR or the TD. Successfully killing either one that Night completely foils any benefit town would have had from the claims.
Meanwhile, the Sheriff and Mad Scientist can both be recruited, so if that happens during all this, the protections start to fall apart and scum can gain a decent advantage.
We also have the Psychoanalyst. But that player can get recruited too, so after Night 1, we can't necessarily trust the results they give us. This can be circumvented if the player claims Today, the MS serums him, and the TD investigates him Tonight, but then we're back where we started in the previous scenario. How long until scum outguesses the Sheriff and kills off the Psychoanalyst, and/or any other confirmed roles?
I really don't see enough benefit to outing anyone just yet. As I said before, the best case scenario is if the NR and TD are both still alive later in the game--say, day 3 or 4 or later--so that they can then claim and add 2 confirmed town when we need them most.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 10, 2011 15:01:06 GMT -5
That makes sense to me.
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Post by guiri on Sept 10, 2011 16:21:26 GMT -5
I'm reading through the previous version of this game.
On Day 1 Angel of the North (aka Archangel) had strong metagame reasons to believe she was likely to have been sampled. She voted herself and suggested Town should lynch her so she could win with Town and foil the MPP. She avoided the D1 lynch by just 1 vote but was lynched by a landslide margin D2. She hadn't been recruited but that's almost irrelevant.
She got some flak for her suggestion because she was effectively claiming vanilla town, reducing the pool for power roles to hide in, but the counter argument was that it was preferable to lynch a VT who had a fair chance of being recruited than no lynch, lynch blindly or randomly and forcing a power to claim to avoid the lynch.
Peeker hinted at this earlier ("and it is a little bit ironic that if they are town they would almost want to lay down as town so they could win on their original wincon" referring to Bill and I).
Thoughts?
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Post by guiri on Sept 10, 2011 16:56:26 GMT -5
The MPP was informed of the success of the N1 recruit at Dusk and, if successful, the recruit was given access to the scum board immediately so they could scheme. Hmm, I think this is incorrect. I based the statement on the fact that the recruits all showed up on the scum board shortly after Dusk but I don't see how this was possible given the Mad Scientist's role. Special Ed, are Night actions resolved at Dawn?
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Post by special on Sept 10, 2011 17:27:20 GMT -5
Night Actions are resolved at Dawn. Recruitment is not a Night Action. Recruitment resolves at Dusk.
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Post by guiri on Sept 10, 2011 17:40:48 GMT -5
Does the Mad Scientist's vaccination only take effect the Night after administration? If not, wouldn't a vaccination interfere with the recruitment process if the vaccinated player was due to be recruited that Night?
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Post by special on Sept 10, 2011 19:59:50 GMT -5
Does the Mad Scientist's vaccination only take effect the Night after administration? If not, wouldn't a vaccination interfere with the recruitment process if the vaccinated player was due to be recruited that Night? Yes
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Post by sinjin on Sept 10, 2011 20:53:26 GMT -5
Well, if all 5 roles claimed today we'd have a 5 person bloc of confirmed town which would drop the pool of potential MPPs to 10. But then all the power roles would get picked off or recruited. I think the power of today will be revealed in who interacts with whom as scum get revealed and killed in later days. Do you have any suggestions for finding scum? All power roles cannot be recruited. All of the recruiting has been done already.
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Post by sinjin on Sept 10, 2011 20:57:35 GMT -5
vote inner stickler
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Post by Dirx on Sept 10, 2011 21:10:19 GMT -5
I believe his statement is accurately parsed as "all power roles that weren't slated for recruitment would get picked off."
Either way, that's a pretty damn weak vote, if that comment is your basis for it.
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Post by Dirx on Sept 11, 2011 0:27:52 GMT -5
On reread: Sinjin, you never unvoted peeker anyway (very first post). I don't think your recent vote counts.
Since it's the night before deadline, I guess I probably ought to get a vote down (Captain Procrastination, at your service!). Red's vote on me is weak as hell. Sinjin's vote on Stickler is pretty weak, too. Paranoia's joke vote on Texcat is still standing, as is Sturmhauke's vote on Drain Bead.
Drain's vote on me is fine enough for a Day1 vote, though, as she specifically stated how it's a policy vote (well, stated when she voted for guiri, anyway). Can't say I have much of an opinion on that policy; I haven't paid enough attention to who makes accusations of PIS in past games.
I want to vote for Red Skeezix, but I admit there's probably some OMGUS floating around in there. It really is a horrible vote, though, even for Day 1.
Guiri, though. He's quick to question me about my numbers (fair enough, I wasn't clear in that post that I was just looking for the fastest possible scum win, probability be damned). After I explained myself and Jan responds about her "slip", guiri immediately votes her for the supposed PIS. Later he points out what he thinks is an inconsistency in Inner Stickler's posts, and that dies quickly after he explains himself.
It's not a lot, but kinda seems that guiri is trying a little too hard to find reasons to cast suspicion on people, and then backing off when they don't stick. Idunno. I know I've played a game or two with guiri, but it's been quite a while, so I'm not really familiar with his playstyle and don't know if this is normal or not. I guess I'll sleep on it, wait to see what Red has to say to the arguments against him, and make a decision on who to vote for tomorrow.
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Post by sturmhauke on Sept 11, 2011 1:29:18 GMT -5
Red Skeezix is giving me a strong misdirection vibe, with all this talk of a NR claim and the vote on Dirx.
Unvote: Drain Bead Vote: Red Skeezix
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Post by guiri on Sept 11, 2011 2:27:43 GMT -5
Unofficial vote count: SilverJan (2): Guiri(51), Bill(56) Dirx (2): DrainBead(88), RedSkeezix(89) RedSkeezix (2): Peeker(99), Sturmhauke(137)
Peeker (1): Sinjin(1), DrainBead(21-53) TexCat (1): Paranoia(2)
Guiri (0): DrainBead(53-88) Sturmhauke (0): SisterCoyote(3-69) DrainBead (0): Sturmhauke(19-137)
A 3-way tie.
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Post by Pollux Oil on Sept 11, 2011 2:42:28 GMT -5
Man, it's taking me a bit to get used to playing with you guys again. You're all just so...so....smart. Let's see. I kind of agree with Dirx's intuition involving guiri, although it feels a little bit like reaching to me. I reviewed the Day and while I see all the stuff Dirx mentioned, I dunno, it didn't strike me as pressuring or trying to make different things stick. Red is probably vibing the most for me right now, basically for all the reasons everybody else has said already. The horrible vote, the horrible reasoning for the vote, and the misdirection strumhauke mentions. Paranoia kind of jumped up at me on the no-lynch suggestion. I think there's actually less of a reason to no-lynch in this game, since as I said earlier, we have a 1 in 3 chance of hitting a scum or person that will be recruited, if the 4 recruits is the same as from the last game. That's better odds than usual for hitting scum in a game, I believe. Sinjin's vote on Inner Stickler is just...weird. But I kind of expect her to retract it when she sees Dirx's explanation/response. Vote: Red Skeezix For now, and I'll check in tomorrow after I get some sleep and can reread the Day in a not tired state.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 11, 2011 3:50:58 GMT -5
Jesus christ, I'm fucked up. I dunno what's in a cherry bomb but I'm never drinking one again. Why do I get drunk and then think mafia is the thing to do? Cuz I'm dumb, that's why.
Ok,
Dirx, the only opinion I have on guiri's playstyle is that when he's scum, he questons his scum mates but never follows through. It's like a light press and then he moves on. No votes, no pressure, just pointing out their scumminess and then voting for other people.
I will talk more tomorrow when I'm not so drunk i see three screens.
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Post by guiri on Sept 11, 2011 3:54:53 GMT -5
Guiri, though. He's quick to question me about my numbers (fair enough, I wasn't clear in that post that I was just looking for the fastest possible scum win, probability be damned). After I explained myself and Jan responds about her "slip", guiri immediately votes her for the supposed PIS. Later he points out what he thinks is an inconsistency in Inner Stickler's posts, and that dies quickly after he explains himself. It's not a lot, but kinda seems that guiri is trying a little too hard to find reasons to cast suspicion on people, and then backing off when they don't stick. Idunno. I know I've played a game or two with guiri, but it's been quite a while, so I'm not really familiar with his playstyle and don't know if this is normal or not. I guess I'll sleep on it, wait to see what Red has to say to the arguments against him, and make a decision on who to vote for tomorrow. Are you saying I shouldn't question apparent contradictions and that I should maintain the suspicion when the explanation given is reasonable?
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Post by sinjin on Sept 11, 2011 10:27:53 GMT -5
Sorry for my shallow post. I was away from my computer and using my brandy new smart phone and I have old people thumbs. I was lucky to get that much out.
IS's post just seemed off the wall to me after all the talk about how the recruitment process works. I'm not generally keen on mass claims. And like I said before I don't have a feel for how to play this game.
Basically Day one is going to be a crap shot. It's 14 vs 1 and no real reason for that one to be particularly vocal when we know that it's usually the most vocal that gets it early in the game. On the other hand maybe the MMP would post a lot day one just because of that.
On the third hand I get the perception that Dirx is being a bit earnest in his play this game. I generally like posters to clarify their own statements.
I thought I had unvoted peeks earlier so
unvote peeker
I'll vote to prevent a tie if necessary.
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Post by Silver Jan on Sept 11, 2011 11:15:29 GMT -5
@ Sinjin, I do find it rather strange that you have 3 hands, that did ping me, not enough for a vote of course but I was wondering. (No, it's not a smudge or anything, it's just a joke)
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Post by Silver Jan on Sept 11, 2011 11:22:02 GMT -5
Vote guiri
He did seem to be rather quick to vote and he seems to be smudging Dirx and all the while trying to seem reasonable.
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Post by Dirx on Sept 11, 2011 11:54:11 GMT -5
Are you saying I shouldn't question apparent contradictions and that I should maintain the suspicion when the explanation given is reasonable? There's a fine line between the type of scummy behaviour I [tried to?] describe, and actual legitimate townie play. I still can't decide if you've crossed that line or not, which generally means you won't earn my vote yet. Day ends in just over 6 hours, so for now I'll go with my other top suspect and Vote: Red Skeezix I'd still really like to hear his responses, though. Does anyone know if he's normally around on weekends or not?
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 11, 2011 12:01:17 GMT -5
I will talk more tomorrow when I'm not so drunk i see three screens. <snipped> if you can still count to three you're not that fucking drunk.
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Post by texcat on Sept 11, 2011 12:05:27 GMT -5
Next up, I'm not saying the Nosy Reporter should claim who everyone else is, that would be would be an exercise in futility. Just the possibility that the the nosy reporter may want to consider saying "Hey, I'm the nosy reporter", Might have some merit, and at least gets us thinking about something other than. "Gee there's only one scum right now, we'll never find him." And exactly why would this benefit town? It sure seems like you are anxious to know who the reporter is, and I can't figure out any townie reason for wanting to know. I was really hoping that RedSkeezix would be back to explain this, but I'm not sure I'll be back before EOD, and I need to vote. Vote: RedSkeezix
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 11, 2011 12:16:35 GMT -5
So some folk are advocating a partial unprovoked claim on Day One in order to...what, exactly? I've read the last two pages two times and it's still not making any sense to me. when in doubt go back to square one and start again. www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ogQ0uge06o
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Post by Dirx on Sept 11, 2011 12:27:39 GMT -5
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