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Post by peekercpa on Sept 17, 2011 11:12:18 GMT -5
[ However, I do think it is important for everyone to vote. How do you think we will ever catch scum if we allow them to be quiet and not vote? Forcing a vote and a reason for the vote gives us important information. I agree that just voting to be voting is not a very good reason, but it gives us information that silence does not. <snipped> agreed. town's power is in the lynch (and if you are lucky you get an accurate vig). but nonetheless lynch is town's most powerful weapon. by not using that weapon you are bascially emasculating town. which means you are working for a scum win.
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 17, 2011 11:15:08 GMT -5
neta: a shitty vote is better than no vote at all. at least it gives the rest of us to evaluate your shittiness.
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Post by guiri on Sept 17, 2011 11:17:55 GMT -5
While SilverJan may have a habit of being lynched early elsewhere, she's survived a fairly long time in the games she's played here and on the Dope. I think she's playing down her experience. jeebuz this is a smudgy post. almost to the extent of making me me vote to you. How is it smudgy? I voted SilverJan yesterDay and said I'd be happy with her lynch toDay. I have made a case against Drain, who fits how I'd expect a recruitee to behave D2, but remain suspicious of SilverJan. Deni suspects SilverJan would not be a likely recruit due to her tendency to get lynched early, that's not been the case in the games I've played with her even though she keeps saying that she always looks scummy.
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 17, 2011 11:18:34 GMT -5
netata: there was supposed to be "a chance" in between "us" and "to".
ffs.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 17, 2011 11:22:45 GMT -5
Let me put it this way, a vote with a nice case and quality reasoning is better than a no vote and a no vote is better than a vote given just to have a vote down. Texcat, especially looks to me like yesterday she was trying to create a cover for not coming back in case red claimed. She did end up coming back but I still don't like that post.
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 17, 2011 11:22:52 GMT -5
jeebuz this is a smudgy post. almost to the extent of making me me vote to you. How is it smudgy? I voted SilverJan yesterDay and said I'd be happy with her lynch toDay. I have made a case against Drain, who fits how I'd expect a recruitee to behave D2, but remain suspicious of SilverJan. Deni suspects SilverJan would not be a likely recruit due to her tendency to get lynched early, that's not been the case in the games I've played with her even though she keeps saying that she always looks scummy. oh for fuck's sake guiri. read what you wrote. you are throwing shit against someone because they are alive. i can go all meta too. but crap at least come out and say you are going down that bunny hole with out the half ass back handed swipe. because that is indeed scummy.
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 17, 2011 11:31:06 GMT -5
Let me put it this way, a vote with a nice case and quality reasoning is better than a no vote and a no vote is better than a vote given just to have a vote down. you are full of carp. EVERYONE needs to vote. even if their reason is that they don't like someone else's avator or screen name. the whole boo hoo me i don't find anyone scummy so i won't vote is contraindicated. ffs pull something out of your ass. let the rest of us judge whether it makes sense or not in the context of the game. c'mon inner if you accept non voting then why even play. we never know with 100 percent certainty what someone is until a death reveal or game end. but carp scum know who they need to kill, as town we have to kill them first. ipso fuckto vote.
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 17, 2011 11:34:32 GMT -5
neta: a non vote is cowering in a hole hoping that the bad guys leave you alone. screw that. if i am going to go down it's going to be swinging not whimpering.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 17, 2011 12:41:38 GMT -5
Boo hoo I don't find anyone scummy so I won't vote tells me a whole lot about the poster. I don't give people a pass for not voting, I hold them accountable for it. Voting just to have a vote on the table says other things and messes with the vote record destroying accountability in another way, that's what I'm trying to say.
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Post by Dirx on Sept 17, 2011 13:01:13 GMT -5
I agree with Inner a bit here, in principle. Putting a vote down for no reason doesn't help us analyze much. What we should be doing is not just ensuring everyone votes, but trying to make sure everyone votes with some sort of reasoning behind it. The kind of cases people make is what helps us understand motivations.
Then again, I don't think anyone's throwing down any baseless votes anymore. That's beginning of Day 1 crap, and even then virtually no one lets those votes stand the whole Day. Sure, people have terrible reasons for voting even after that, but we can still analyze those reasons and try to infer motivation/alignment. So, while I agree with what you're saying, I don't think it's an actual problem we're dealing with here.
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Post by Dirx on Sept 17, 2011 13:08:42 GMT -5
Ok, scanning over your posts Yesterday, Stickler, I don't see why say there was nothing to talk about Today. Yeah, a lot of your posts were about game mechanics but you also were actively involved in most of the discussions that popped up (both mechanics and scumhunting), and provided regular vote counts. There's nothing to suggest that you couldn't have attempted the same level of participation Today, so for now my vote stands.
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Post by guiri on Sept 17, 2011 13:18:38 GMT -5
oh for fuck's sake guiri. read what you wrote. you are throwing shit against someone because they are alive. i can go all meta too. but crap at least come out and say you are going down that bunny hole with out the half ass back handed swipe. because that is indeed scummy. Eh, no. Sure, I'm making a metagame comment in response to another metagame comment buy it's nothing to do with SilverJan being alive in this game. Deni says that Jan would be an unlikely recruit as she has a habit of getting killed off early in the game and so the MPP wouldn't risk an early loss. Jan's made a similar argument about herself. In reality Jan's survival rate is pretty good both here and on the Dope so I disagree with Deni's argument and think that Jan is downplaying her experience.
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Post by Dirx on Sept 17, 2011 13:43:38 GMT -5
Oh, I know is a bit late in the Day, but I wanted to seriously bring this up because the longer we wait on it the less useful it would be.
It was very briefly suggested Yesterday at some point to have each of us list players we would have recruited if we were the MPP. The idea didn't take at all, but I would like to revisit it now. I don't really see much of a downside to it unless we spin off into huge metagamey discussions that distract from regular scum-hunting, and I think we're reasonable enough to not do that. It would help because if/when we do ultimately find the MPP, we have something to analyze regarding who the recruits may be. Sure, the MPP could list people he'd never recruit, or create a random list, or whatever else to try to screw with the data, but even bad data is better than no data. I think it's worth doing.
The idea is to list 4* players you would recruit to be on your scum team, and why you would have chosen them. What do you guys think?
*Why 4? Because that was the number in the last game, and even though it's been theorized there may be only 3 recruits in this game, it doesn't hurt to list more. Hell, we can decide to list 5 if we really want.
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 17, 2011 14:04:40 GMT -5
I agree with Inner a bit here, in principle. Putting a vote down for no reason doesn't help us analyze much. What we should be doing is not just ensuring everyone votes, but trying to make sure everyone votes with some sort of reasoning behind it. The kind of cases people make is what helps us understand motivations. Then again, I don't think anyone's throwing down any baseless votes anymore. That's beginning of Day 1 crap, and even then virtually no one lets those votes stand the whole Day. Sure, people have terrible reasons for voting even after that, but we can still analyze those reasons and try to infer motivation/alignment. So, while I agree with what you're saying, I don't think it's an actual problem we're dealing with here. crap dirx i think we are actually somewhat agreeing here. i think a shitty vote contains much more value than silence. mattter of fact depending on flips a shitty vote actually contains more information than one that is flimsily constructed.
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Post by Deni on Sept 17, 2011 14:43:26 GMT -5
I wish I had my own reasons for my vote but sometimes it is just as simple as agreeing with others. I am voting with Dirx & peeker at this time because they are making sense to me.
Vote Inner stickler
Mind you, I think it is entirely possible one of them may be Podded tomorrow. Of course it is possible that one of them is already Podded and is waiting for the other one to join the pods without the knowledge of the other. This is an intriguing set up with the scum team possibly growing nightly.
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Post by texcat on Sept 17, 2011 15:06:31 GMT -5
Unofficial vote tally: SilverJan 3: texcat 34, paranoia 62, PolluxOil 73 Inner Stickler 3: peeker 16, Dirx 80, Deni 104 paranoia 2: sinjin 33, SisCoyote 50 guiri 1: Drain Bead 56 texcat 1: SilverJan 57 Drain Bead 1: guiri 70
Not voting: RedSk, Inner
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Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 17, 2011 15:14:38 GMT -5
Well, Dirx, maybe someday you can play mafia with a group composed entirely of yourself and then everyone will always be playing at the dirx approved level of posting. You've posted half as much in this thread as you did Yesterday, would you care to explain your sudden dive in interest?Anyway, I'm smack in the middle of posters as far as postcounts go today so nyah. Lynching the loud makes endgame suck but whatever you say.
Vote: silver jan to break the tie.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 17, 2011 15:16:00 GMT -5
I'm also amused in a dark humor sort of way at peeker voting for me and then glomming onto dirx in an obvious attempt to make his crap vote look good.
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Post by guiri on Sept 17, 2011 15:26:32 GMT -5
The idea is to list 4* players you would recruit to be on your scum team, and why you would have chosen them. What do you guys think? I see no harm. Bill, or SisterCoyote, as I'd rather have them on my team than against it, probably Bill One of Drain and Red, as I've seen them survive close to or to end game as scum, probably Red TexCat, as we were once witches together and ruled the world (well, one game) And then a random choice. If forced to choose, I'd probably go with either Sturmhauke or PolluxOil, as I think we've never played together before
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Post by Dirx on Sept 17, 2011 16:09:03 GMT -5
I wish I had my own reasons for my vote but sometimes it is just as simple as agreeing with others. I am voting with Dirx & peeker at this time because they are making sense to me. Vote Inner sticklerI would like to point out that while peeker and I are voting the same way, we're doing it for completely opposite reasons. Peek voted because he though Inner Stickler is the MPP, based on his Day 1 behaviour. I'm voting him because I think his behaviour changed between Days, suggesting he was recruited. So what's your reason? Well, Dirx, maybe someday you can play mafia with a group composed entirely of yourself and then everyone will always be playing at the dirx approved level of posting. You've posted half as much in this thread as you did Yesterday, would you care to explain your sudden dive in interest?Anyway, I'm smack in the middle of posters as far as postcounts go today so nyah. Lynching the loud makes endgame suck but whatever you say. Everyone has posted less Today than Yesterday, numberwise (well, mostly), but I'm talking percentages, here. Yesterday, you were the post leader all Day, whereas for the better part of Today you trailed behind significantly until I called you out. My behaviour hasn't changed, by the way. I was just barely in the top 3rd of posters Yesterday until the very end of the Day. That's still the case so far Today. Thanks for trying to misrepresent my case on you and turn it back at me, though.
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Post by guiri on Sept 17, 2011 16:15:33 GMT -5
I can see Dirx' reasoning against Inner, it's similar to my case on Drain: a change in approach to the game on D2 compared to D1, likely due to being sampled. In Drain's case it's a different focus and a dropped suspicion. In Inner's case it's a pretty abrupt change in quantity, until he was called on it. I'm not seeing why a recruited Inner would stop commenting on strategy or posting vote counts short of deer in headlights syndrome but his "no real opinions" only explains part of the change. Anyway, I'm smack in the middle of posters as far as postcounts go today so nyah. Lynching the loud makes endgame suck but whatever you say. Only since you were called on your abrupt drop in participation. Vote: silver jan to break the tie. Do you have any suspects or thoughts?
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Post by Pollux Oil on Sept 17, 2011 17:02:34 GMT -5
The idea is to list 4* players you would recruit to be on your scum team, and why you would have chosen them. What do you guys think? Sure I'll bite, why not. I'd probably pick you, Dirx, because I know your play-style and you're pretty awesome. I'd also pick peeker because he's off the wall and it would be hard to really pin down any play-style changes when he got recruited. The other two would probably be random. I'd pick somebody people I haven't played with/don't really know that well, just to throw people off. Silver Jan/guiri/Deni would probably all be high on my list as choices. Vote: silver jan to break the tie. Convenient since the other person in the tie is you. This is kind of screaming suspiciousness to me. I'm starting to come around to Dirx and peeker's case on you. Rereading, I can definitely see a change in tone from Day One to Day Two. I'm thinking about changing my vote. Hm.
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Post by Dirx on Sept 17, 2011 17:31:29 GMT -5
*shrug* Okay, guess there's no arguments against it and we're just doing it. Works for me.
I'll be honest, I never considered the possibility of randomly picking recruits until someone mentioned it sometime on Day 1. If I'd been the MPP, I would have attempted to build an all-star scum team of sorts.
As I mentioned at the beginning of Today, I would have either recruited Bill, or left him alive as part of a diabolical not-too-brilliant WIFOM.
Sister Coyote would have been high on my list, because I've seen her in scummy action before, and have been suitably impressed.
I probably would have recruited peeker too, for basically the same reasons Pollux mentions. I remember him being surprisingly slippery back in Ragnarok. I've also been scum with him a few times, I think.
I know I've been scum with Red Skeezix before, and if I remember correctly we pulled out a pretty good win. So he'd probably have been on my list too.
Assuming I didn't pick Bill: Drain Bead fake-claimed that ventriloquist role in the Batman game, right? If so, that kind of quick-thinking would definitely make her someone I'd want on my side.
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Post by Pollux Oil on Sept 17, 2011 17:38:33 GMT -5
Ah, screw it.
Unvote: Silver Jan Vote: Inner Stickler
My gut is telling me something's off about Inner's play.
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Post by special on Sept 17, 2011 18:00:09 GMT -5
Day is over.
Day threads will be locked during the night.
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