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Post by CatInASuit on Feb 3, 2012 5:00:50 GMT -5
I will point something out with all these mason claims.
We have had 9 of them, with one of them already guaranteed.
Even if Silver Jan and peekercpa are cabal and gnarlycharlie is a vampire, that still leaves six of them left, if they are all masons.
If the Witches are around that's 9 confirmable town players + scathach and likely including septimus makes 11.
11 out of 25 with probably only 12 or 13 Town, means that with me, everyone else is probably in a scum faction of some sort.
And those numbers just don't add up to a good game.
Idle Thoughts: You called for a role claim and said the other Witches agreed with you. Assuming you are telling the truth, what were you all planning to claim, or were you all going to outright say you were the Witches?
Actually looking at it further, if we did roleclaim and gnarlycharlie is not a vampire than the town numbers are going to be whittled down quicker than we can lynch scum.
If gnarlycharlie is a vampire then killing him off means that a roleclaim would work as only the wolves would be able to NK.
My take on this is that if we have 6 masons, we don't have any Witches. Just something to bear in mind.
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Post by special on Feb 3, 2012 8:13:41 GMT -5
It is possible that Bill shook with Charlie.
He did show up to post that was wasn't going to be available. He may have made a PM to Pleo with that action as well in case he did have time to return.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 3, 2012 8:34:21 GMT -5
It is possible that Bill shook with Charlie. He did show up to post that was wasn't going to be available. He may have made a PM to Pleo with that action as well in case he did have time to return. Sure it's possible. I don't think anyone said it wasn't possible. It also indicates nothing without Bill here to corroborate that he did indeed do this and he can confirm that charlie is a mason. So I don't really understand what point you're trying to make here.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 3, 2012 8:37:36 GMT -5
I have a confession to make:
I was the other gunman on the grassy knoll.
JFK would confirm this because he knew. Except he's dead, so he can't. But I was. Really. Just hold a seance and ask his ghost.
(Never mind the fact that I wasn't even born yet.)
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Post by special on Feb 3, 2012 8:45:59 GMT -5
It is possible that Bill shook with Charlie. He did show up to post that was wasn't going to be available. He may have made a PM to Pleo with that action as well in case he did have time to return. Sure it's possible. I don't think anyone said it wasn't possible. It also indicates nothing without Bill here to corroborate that he did indeed do this and he can confirm that charlie is a mason. So I don't really understand what point you're trying to make here. Just pointing out that it's possible. I'd rather lynch one of the Cabal first and then have more information before going after one of the still possible Masons. I'd put you, Suburban, and Boozy in the same boat as gnarly, as die from the fact that peeker claims to have blocked him. And I don't trust peeker, as I think Cabal might want a vampire alive a little longer to help kill Wolves and witches. Think about it: 1. Why at this point, would a Vampire kill an outed Cabal? Cabal can't win with him alive, and oute Cabal must be lynched at some point. 2. Peeker could direct us on to the wrong claimed Mason in order to keep the real vampire alive. 3. Vampires can kill wolves and witches. 4. Eventually, we'd figure out which claimed Mason isn't really a mason, but the longer the Vampire lives, the better. 5. It's also seems likely that a 3rd Cabal has claimed Mason, and so Peeker naturally wants a target other than a teammate. 6. Peeker could be using reverse psychology and gnarly is a teammate anyway, knowing we're likely to lynch Jan regardless. So, aside from the fact that peeker might like to just be right and want to brag, what motivation does a Cabal have for giving Town the vampire?
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Post by CatInASuit on Feb 3, 2012 8:59:07 GMT -5
So, aside from the fact that peeker might like to just be right and want to brag, what motivation does a Cabal have for giving Town the vampire? The only reason to give up the vampire is to reduce the number of Night deaths and take out the undead. With the Wolves likely to be down by three, a bigger threat to the Cabal is the undead. But the biggest threat to the Cabal are the Witches and for them, it makes more sense to leave any NK powers around to try and kill one from within the unknown pool at some point. In that case, it only makes sense to give up the vampire if they know there are no Witches and their only threat is from the undead and Wolves.
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Post by Drain Bead on Feb 3, 2012 9:04:03 GMT -5
Does anyone think it's time to talk about the absentee players?
Right now we have a few posters who I pretty much forget are in this game from time to time. Namely, hirkatbawa and Deon. I know our dance card is pretty full as far as future lynches go--we have to get rid of Jan, peeker, and possibly charlie before we deal with the missing players. But I'm not sure how their absence might affect a planned mass roleclaim.
Is this worth talking about right now, on a Day where our lynch is pretty much a foregone conclusion?
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Post by special on Feb 3, 2012 9:33:15 GMT -5
So, aside from the fact that peeker might like to just be right and want to brag, what motivation does a Cabal have for giving Town the vampire? The only reason to give up the vampire is to reduce the number of Night deaths and take out the undead. With the Wolves likely to be down by three, a bigger threat to the Cabal is the undead. But the biggest threat to the Cabal are the Witches and for them, it makes more sense to leave any NK powers around to try and kill one from within the unknown pool at some point. In that case, it only makes sense to give up the vampire if they know there are no Witches and their only threat is from the undead and Wolves. True, but that means Idle is most likely a Cabal. Without Witches, I can't see more than 3 Cabal. Which means no one fakes the handshake last Night. So, basically for the no Witch scenario: 1. Idle is Cabal. 2. Idle correctly guessed that guessed that guiri was Town and Pollux was Wolf (per septimus). (Or maybe he used his power on one of them and guessed on the other? 3a. There are 4 Cabal (hard to believe with no witches) and one of them faked Mason last Night. 3b. There are 3 Cabal, and everyone who shook with guiri is a Mason, making 5 confirmed Masons with Bill and gnarly still possible. (I guess you'd assume 6 Masons and count Bill in) I think it's more likely that: 1. We have 3 witches and Idle is one of them. 2. We have 5 Masons, and 2 of Bill, gnarly, Boozy, Hoopy, and Suburban are not. I'd be against Hoopy at this point, as he really seems to want to out another Witch, knowing the Wolves need them dead too. (Coupled with my earlier suspicions and his attempt to downplay the threat of the Cabal.) Cabal do pose a serious threat as we must kill them off before killing off the Wolves and Undead or get lucky keeping witches alive.
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 3, 2012 9:57:58 GMT -5
Hmm. First off, a polite request to peekercpa and gnarlycharlie. Please keep it civil. <snipped> otay. but i just have to add that gnarley has made it into the peek select group of folks that don't rile me and i hope it goes both ways. non peek group: well i think that your reasoning could be a little faulty and your conclusions are in error. maybe you could revisit them from a different angle. peek group: you lying sack of shit. if you were on fire i wouldn't even piss on you. maybe if you pulled your head out of your ass you'd have a different fucking perspective. idiot. capiche. p.s. i like all of you folks kind of equally. i just have a couple that i like a little more equally.
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 3, 2012 10:10:44 GMT -5
I'd rather lynch one of the Cabal first and then have more information before going after one of the still possible Masons. well of course you would since it's most likely that you are a witch. i know you ain't cabal or a mason. you also are not a vamp. so by default you are witch or nec. so lynching into the cabal pool is going to be in your best interest. problem is that if you fine and upstanding folks just take easy street you lose to undead. short term gain. long term pain. don't know why i even try anymore.
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Post by special on Feb 3, 2012 10:20:13 GMT -5
I'd rather lynch one of the Cabal first and then have more information before going after one of the still possible Masons. well of course you would since it's most likely that you are a witch. i know you ain't cabal or a mason. you also are not a vamp. so by default you are witch or nec. so lynching into the cabal pool is going to be in your best interest. problem is that if you fine and upstanding folks just take easy street you lose to undead. short term gain. long term pain. don't know why i even try anymore. That's all good and well, though you still might be surprised. So, why don't you tell me, what is your motivation to block the vampire? A Vampire certainly isn't going to kill you. You're no big threat to them, and you'll eventually be lynched anyway. So why waste a NK? You should be concentrating on finding the Necromancer. He's a real threat to you, the vampire isn't. At least not now that you're outed.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 3, 2012 11:13:13 GMT -5
That's all good and well, though you still might be surprised. So, why don't you tell me, what is your motivation to block the vampire? A Vampire certainly isn't going to kill you. You're no big threat to them, and you'll eventually be lynched anyway. So why waste a NK? You should be concentrating on finding the Necromancer. He's a real threat to you, the vampire isn't. At least not now that you're outed. Please explain to me, since I seem to be having difficulty wrapping my head around the interplay between the various factions in his game, why a Vampire would necessarily not target a claimed Cabalist. Isn't one Living player pretty much the same as any other to the Undead? They need Living players killed so that they can be Zombified. Why does it matter to them whether they target a Cabalist, Wolf, or Town? In fact, it seems like a Cabalist should be a prime target for a Vampire. they are most certainly not a Vicar, so the kill won't fail. If all the Cabal are killed, then they will be unable to block any future Night Kills. And I'd think the Vampire would prefer not to kill Wolves if he can help it, thus helping to ensure that the number of Night Kills is maximized. So where have I gone wrong in my thinking?
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 3, 2012 11:15:31 GMT -5
well of course you would since it's most likely that you are a witch. i know you ain't cabal or a mason. you also are not a vamp. so by default you are witch or nec. so lynching into the cabal pool is going to be in your best interest. problem is that if you fine and upstanding folks just take easy street you lose to undead. short term gain. long term pain. don't know why i even try anymore. That's all good and well, though you still might be surprised. So, why don't you tell me, what is your motivation to block the vampire? A Vampire certainly isn't going to kill you. You're no big threat to them, and you'll eventually be lynched anyway. So why waste a NK? You should be concentrating on finding the Necromancer. He's a real threat to you, the vampire isn't. At least not now that you're outed. well i didn't conclude that he was a vamp until i ceased blocking him. i figured i try to start trying to block the nec. i kind of thought it would be you. and so by default you are definitely a witch since there couldn't be a zombie if you were the nec. i kind of got bassackwards on the previous post. and i can't NK. now that i think about it it is probably in my best interest if jan or me take it in the neck toDay. that frees up our wolf or gnarley to nail your ass toNight/
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 3, 2012 11:25:19 GMT -5
One thing I'd like to point out at this point is that if we have a Vigilante, he would appear to have a 'safe' target Tonight in peeker. Under normal circumstances I'd think "he's not Town, so he's a threat, so he should be Vig killed at the earliest opportunity", but since things are slightly more complicated in this game, that might be a godd topic for discussion Today.
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Post by CatInASuit on Feb 3, 2012 11:28:51 GMT -5
That's all good and well, though you still might be surprised. So, why don't you tell me, what is your motivation to block the vampire? A Vampire certainly isn't going to kill you. You're no big threat to them, and you'll eventually be lynched anyway. So why waste a NK? You should be concentrating on finding the Necromancer. He's a real threat to you, the vampire isn't. At least not now that you're outed. Please explain to me, since I seem to be having difficulty wrapping my head around the interplay between the various factions in his game, why a Vampire would necessarily not target a claimed Cabalist. Isn't one Living player pretty much the same as any other to the Undead? They need Living players killed so that they can be Zombified. Why does it matter to them whether they target a Cabalist, Wolf, or Town? In fact, it seems like a Cabalist should be a prime target for a Vampire. they are most certainly not a Vicar, so the kill won't fail. If all the Cabal are killed, then they will be unable to block any future Night Kills. And I'd think the Vampire would prefer not to kill Wolves if he can help it, thus helping to ensure that the number of Night Kills is maximized. So where have I gone wrong in my thinking? Simple: The biggest targets for a vampire in the game are the Witches, a Seer and a Vigilante. As long as a kill goes through everyone is equal, but two of them can and will expose the vampire quickly and the third can kill them if exposed. Everyone else is secondary. A roleblock from the Cabal is not normally as concerning because the Cabal also want the Witches dead as well. ...and I should know - See conspiracy 1
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Post by CatInASuit on Feb 3, 2012 11:32:24 GMT -5
One thing I'd like to point out at this point is that if we have a Vigilante, he would appear to have a 'safe' target Tonight in peeker. Under normal circumstances I'd think "he's not Town, so he's a threat, so he should be Vig killed at the earliest opportunity", but since things are slightly more complicated in this game, that might be a godd topic for discussion Today. No, if gnarlycharlie fails a handshake or two, I think he would make a much better target.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 3, 2012 11:41:41 GMT -5
So, having read through the day:
vote: Silver Jan Because the arguments for her over peeker make sense to me. vote: gnarlycharlie Because peeker's argument about his probable alignment makes sense, though don't we need to be finding the Necromancer more than the vamp(s)? vote: deon for being dead weight vote: hirky for the same reason.
In other, not-game-related news: I may have a broken foot. Sheesh.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 3, 2012 12:03:31 GMT -5
I'd be against Hoopy at this point, as he really seems to want to out another Witch Really? Where did I indicate that?
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 3, 2012 12:12:47 GMT -5
So I've submitted my PM to handshake with Boozy.
Suburban, I suggest you submit your PM to handshake with me.
Charlie should submit his PM to handshake with suburban.
Boozy, I suggest for now you submit to handshake with Charlie and you can always change it to Subrban near end Day if the consensus is to lynch Charlie.
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 3, 2012 12:14:20 GMT -5
One thing I'd like to point out at this point is that if we have a Vigilante, he would appear to have a 'safe' target Tonight in peeker. Under normal circumstances I'd think "he's not Town, so he's a threat, so he should be Vig killed at the earliest opportunity", but since things are slightly more complicated in this game, that might be a godd topic for discussion Today. i'll bet you my house that town does not have a "vig". and getting a witch is paramount for all non town factions. to have wolf or undead kill someone else would actually be par for this fucking game. so go figure.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 3, 2012 13:16:09 GMT -5
One thing I'd like to point out at this point is that if we have a Vigilante, he would appear to have a 'safe' target Tonight in peeker. Under normal circumstances I'd think "he's not Town, so he's a threat, so he should be Vig killed at the earliest opportunity", but since things are slightly more complicated in this game, that might be a godd topic for discussion Today. i'll bet you my house that town does not have a "vig". and getting a witch is paramount for all non town factions. to have wolf or undead kill someone else would actually be par for this fucking game. so go figure. Why? What evidence do you have that suggests there is no Vig? The fact that there has been no apparent Vig kill thus far is pretty much meaningless at this point, as we have not had a likely non-Town candidate yet who survived into Night for him to target. Lack of evidence that something exists does not necessarily imply evidence that thing does not exist. Unless you know something else that you aren't telling us?
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Post by Drain Bead on Feb 3, 2012 14:22:50 GMT -5
I think last Night, when the Masons came pouring back with "Jan is not a Mason," it would have been an optimal time for a Vigging.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 3, 2012 15:51:17 GMT -5
I think last Night, when the Masons came pouring back with "Jan is not a Mason," it would have been an optimal time for a Vigging. OK, that's a valid point.
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 3, 2012 16:46:35 GMT -5
I think last Night, when the Masons came pouring back with "Jan is not a Mason," it would have been an optimal time for a Vigging. OK, that's a valid point. fair enough burby there are a couple of things i know for sure about this game and some other stuff that i just am kind of supposing. but unless gnarlie is the town vig they picked an odd fucking time to start coming out and they sure as shit picked some crappy non town oriented targets. if the collective wants jan or myself lynched i fully understand. but if that happens my/our block goes anywhere but gnarley. i guaran damn tee you that. then we get a dead fucking witch manana. which actually helps me. tee it up mother fuckers.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Feb 3, 2012 17:54:14 GMT -5
CIAS: I assume the other Witches will all just say they're Witches in the mass claim.
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Post by special on Feb 3, 2012 20:00:36 GMT -5
That's all good and well, though you still might be surprised. So, why don't you tell me, what is your motivation to block the vampire? A Vampire certainly isn't going to kill you. You're no big threat to them, and you'll eventually be lynched anyway. So why waste a NK? You should be concentrating on finding the Necromancer. He's a real threat to you, the vampire isn't. At least not now that you're outed. Please explain to me, since I seem to be having difficulty wrapping my head around the interplay between the various factions in his game, why a Vampire would necessarily not target a claimed Cabalist. Isn't one Living player pretty much the same as any other to the Undead? They need Living players killed so that they can be Zombified. Why does it matter to them whether they target a Cabalist, Wolf, or Town? In fact, it seems like a Cabalist should be a prime target for a Vampire. they are most certainly not a Vicar, so the kill won't fail. If all the Cabal are killed, then they will be unable to block any future Night Kills. And I'd think the Vampire would prefer not to kill Wolves if he can help it, thus helping to ensure that the number of Night Kills is maximized. So where have I gone wrong in my thinking? Vampires won't kill Known Cabal because they know Town will have to lunch them to win. Why waste a kill on a future lunches? Especially since that one less chance they'll be lynched
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Post by special on Feb 3, 2012 20:03:24 GMT -5
I'd be against Hoopy at this point, as he really seems to want to out another Witch Really? Where did I indicate that? You not so subtly indicate your doubt of witches seems to be a subtle attempt to get a claim on a day when no claims are needed
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Post by special on Feb 3, 2012 20:04:53 GMT -5
OK, that's a valid point. fair enough burby there are a couple of things i know for sure about this game and some other stuff that i just am kind of supposing. but unless gnarlie is the town vig they picked an odd fucking time to start coming out and they sure as shit picked some crappy non town oriented targets. if the collective wants jan or myself lynched i fully understand. but if that happens my/our block goes anywhere but gnarley. i guaran damn tee you that. then we get a dead fucking witch manana. which actually helps me. tee it up mother fuckers. Of course you want dead witches. You have no incentive to block the vampire regardless of who gets lynched
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 3, 2012 20:48:02 GMT -5
CIAS: I assume the other Witches will all just say they're Witches in the mass claim. well i certainly hope so. that way when we don't lynch gnarlie toDay it gives the wolves and an undead two shots into that pile. i'd suggest that we do something like using your user names alphabetically and then using the witches names alphabetically. the first name alphabetically in the killer group takes the first name in the witches group. second goes for second. that way you don't accidentally double up on a protectee.
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 3, 2012 21:03:58 GMT -5
course all the while we just keep getting deeper into fucking zombies. this really is highly entertaining at this point. i mean i need to kill witches and town needs to kill undead, primarily the nec but at least a vamp lynch eliminates one with a net effect of only +2 for the undead. otherwise it be -4 for town. a non undead lynch. an undead kill, a wolfie kill and a fucking zombie. plus, if jan or i are not lynched we'll block into the pool. might stop a wolfie or a necky.
i'm kind of puzzled why -4 is better than -2. and gnarley i will seriously discount any reasoning you have regarding this position.
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