|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 1, 2012 17:44:12 GMT -5
As to the other kill? I haven't a clue. I was thinking that it was Inner Stickler as the Vampire, but you say he's Town...so I've officially got no clue.
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 1, 2012 17:46:56 GMT -5
Were the rules regarding Wolves (that the Alpha title is inherited) the same in that game? because it seems crystal clear here that there is always an Alpha Wolf, unless the Omega is the last Wolf remaining (since it's explicitly stated that the Omega cannot become Alpha). I reaffirm that there must be an Alpha Wolf in the game, or else Pleonast has made an error somewhere along the line. yes, the Alpha title (but not the secret power) passed on to storyteller, who was revealed as a Werewolf So story inherited the Alpha title, but was not identified as such upon reveal?
|
|
|
Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 1, 2012 17:47:44 GMT -5
NETA: And my guess is that the Alpha (and last remaining) Wolf is deonYou still have to explain the extraneous kills. Also, I've noticed that there are some slight inconsistencies in Pleo's flips from the irrelevant, e.g. reversing alignment and role to the arguably important, e.g. Peeker's alignment and role are not notated in the Player's List thread but are given in the Night 7 thread. It's possible that he simply didn't list whoever the alpha wolf was and this seems like a rather tenuous premise to hang an argument on.
|
|
|
Post by septimus on Mar 1, 2012 17:47:58 GMT -5
deon did log-in 22 Feb, long after his last post. This would imply "idlemafia" right? ... not any "proboard" forum. It seems far more likely that he came to watch or participate, than that he came to look at some old game. And that was about when the double NK's started.
@ pleonast - there seems to be wide agreement that for deon to be NK'ing would be illegitimate. If that's happening, would you please just declare the game void? Or call it a Cabal-Town shared win?
|
|
|
Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 1, 2012 17:52:02 GMT -5
I'm not above being petty. If after another Day or Two it becomes clear that someone is picking off town and cabal equally, I'd be more than happy to lynch deon and hand the win to cabal.
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 1, 2012 17:53:42 GMT -5
NETA: And my guess is that the Alpha (and last remaining) Wolf is deonYou still have to explain the extraneous kills. Also, I've noticed that there are some slight inconsistencies in Pleo's flips from the irrelevant, e.g. reversing alignment and role to the arguably important, e.g. Peeker's alignment and role are not notated in the Player's List thread but are given in the Night 7 thread. It's possible that he simply didn't list whoever the alpha wolf was and this seems like a rather tenuous premise to hang an argument on. I have no explanation for the extraneous kills. As to the 'Alpha Wolf' issue: I don't think it's a 'tenuous premise' at all. I am going by a literal interpretation of the rules. It may be that mu interpretation is incorrect, or it may be that Pleonast has been inconsistent in his reveals, but I think it's a perfectly valid interpretation. And if deon is not a Wolf, then we have two unexplained kills last Night.
|
|
|
Post by special on Mar 1, 2012 17:55:39 GMT -5
yes, the Alpha title (but not the secret power) passed on to storyteller, who was revealed as a Werewolf So story inherited the Alpha title, but was not identified as such upon reveal? correct
|
|
|
Post by special on Mar 1, 2012 17:57:35 GMT -5
And if deon is not a Wolf, then we have two unexplained kills last Night. Just one, Sister could have killed. Or did you block her?
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 1, 2012 18:00:17 GMT -5
So story inherited the Alpha title, but was not identified as such upon reveal? correct Okey dokey then. Still, the rules say And Night 4's reveal says Silver Jan is lynched. Pollux Oil was a Wolf. texcat was an Alpha Wolf. Note it says texcat was an Alpha Wolf, not the Alpha Wolf. the implication there is that there is, or will be, more than one Alpha Wolf, and we haven't seen another one yet. Maybe Pleonast forgot about that, but I'm a stubborn old goat so I'm not giving up on it.
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 1, 2012 18:05:04 GMT -5
vote deon
He's a Wolf. I see no other option.
|
|
|
Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 1, 2012 18:07:19 GMT -5
So you think we nailed all the cabalists then?
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 1, 2012 18:09:55 GMT -5
So you think we nailed all the cabalists then? I thought we were all Cabalists? Isn't that the prevailing opinion?
|
|
|
Post by special on Mar 1, 2012 18:10:41 GMT -5
vote deonHe's a Wolf. I see no other option. Why not kill Hoopy first, if he flips Town, we can always try deon. In fact, if deon is the remaining Wolf, we can kill all but 1 of you masons and still guarantee a win. So, if you're going to pretend to be Town, join us.
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 1, 2012 18:19:29 GMT -5
vote deonHe's a Wolf. I see no other option. Why not kill Hoopy first, if he flips Town, we can always try deon. In fact, if deon is the remaining Wolf, we can kill all but 1 of you masons and still guarantee a win. So, if you're going to pretend to be Town, join us. But what if we really are all Masons? That means all the participating players, plus hirka, are Town. So we lynch deon, and it's game over, Town wins.
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 1, 2012 18:26:41 GMT -5
And...speaking purely hypothetically here...if we were all Cabal:
You wouldn't be able to lynch us unless deon or hirka suddenly reappeared. And we wouldn't be able to lynch you.
So, given that somebody must be doing the killing, why not lynch the one person who we can both agree isn't 'one of us'?
|
|
|
Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 1, 2012 18:28:02 GMT -5
What if indeed. What if my beard were made of green spinach?
|
|
|
Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 1, 2012 18:28:50 GMT -5
And... speaking purely hypothetically here...if we were all Cabal: You wouldn't be able to lynch us unless deon or hirka suddenly reappeared. And we wouldn't be able to lynch you. So, given that somebody must be doing the killing, why not lynch the one person who we can both agree isn't 'one of us'? Durr, because the killing role is what's keeping cabal from winning right now.
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 1, 2012 18:29:25 GMT -5
What if indeed. What if my beard were made of green spinach? What other kind of spinach might your beard be made of?
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 1, 2012 18:30:41 GMT -5
And... speaking purely hypothetically here...if we were all Cabal: You wouldn't be able to lynch us unless deon or hirka suddenly reappeared. And we wouldn't be able to lynch you. So, given that somebody must be doing the killing, why not lynch the one person who we can both agree isn't 'one of us'? Durr, because the killing role is what's keeping cabal from winning right now. How do you figure?
|
|
|
Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 1, 2012 18:39:12 GMT -5
Cabal has to meet 3 conditions to win. (1) One or fewer witches alive. Check (2) No living Undead. ? (3) No living Wolves. ?
We know they're at least a third of the way towards winning. Lynching deon would advance them to either 2/3rds of the way or to winning. Since Cabal has not won yet, that means one of two things. Either cabal is gone or one or both of the questionmarked conditions is still unmet. There is no reason for a town player to suggest furthering the cabal wincon. As long as there are still townies alive, the killing role can't win and any masons that get lynched will still win with town if town wins. The most logical course of action from a town point of view is to lynch masons until one flips town or until there are 2 confirmed town left. At that point we lynch deon and either sneaky cabal still win from hiding in the mason pool or town wins from eliminating all threats.
|
|
|
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Mar 1, 2012 18:54:16 GMT -5
Please to meet you. Hope you guess my name. But what's puzzling you is the nature of my game.
All right, after discussing it with my fellow teammates, both dead an alive, I'm coming clean.
I am (was?) the cabal recruiter. In fact, when this game started, I was the only cabalist in the game. The rest of the cabal had apparently been killed off before the game started. I had the secret power of the cabal, which the ability to recruit masons to my cause. I could recruit one of two ways:
1) Each Day I submit a player to Tag. If that player is a mason, they will be tagged by me.
2) If any mason tries to handshake with me, they will be tagged.
At that point, once tagged, the mason has a choice:
1) Post nothing in the night thread and die as town mason.
2) Post anything in the night thread and get converted to cabal.
These were my day actions/results:
Day 1: Tag Peeker
Day 2: Tag Jan
Day 3: Tag Guiri
Day 4 (AKA the Hat Trick Day): Tag Boozy. Also, both Bill and Burby tried to shake with me so they got tagged passively.
Day 5: Tag gnarley. Also gnarly shook with me and got tagged passively.
Every one of them joined me. Interestingly enough, on Night 5, pleo made a comment that he didn't actually expect I'd get everyone. Now there are two ways to interpret that:
1) Pleo is referring to none of my recruits sacrificing themselves to stay town.
2) Pleo accidentally slip that there were no masons out there.
Now regardless, it woudn't have changed my strategy. I was going to attempt a tag the two unclaimed players anyway. So Day 6, I claimed to have shaken with deon, but really I went after hirka. I failed to tag him. So he is definitely not a freemason.
Day 7 I did nothing. I realized around Night 6, thanks to boozy deciding to flake on the game, that at this point there wasn't much chance of cabal winning. I figured what we needed was to keep the lynch threshold high so that we could force a stalemate. So I didn't want to attempt a tag on deon on the off chance he was a mason, and in not participating would die as town by default, thus lowering the lynch threshold but not changing the number of active players.
Our plan was to actually swing the lynch to IS on Day 6. And we could have done it had boozy not flaked. We thought IS was the vampire. (Well we originally thought gnarley since we blocked him the first two Nights and there was only one kill. Then when we block someone else on the third Night, there's an extra kill. Just an odd coincidence, apparently.) This would mean all we would have to do is try to block the wolf kill, and if successful we could essentially control the lynch. And we would eventually lynch a witch while town stood around powerless to do anything. It would have been difficult since the wolves could move the kill around, but we stood a shot. However, due to boozy flaking, we had to let peeker go, and then Bill got whacked.
Of course, if Inner really isn't the vamp, it wouldn't have mattered much anyway.
We had Sis pegged as a wolf for a while. However, we thought CIAS was a wolf as well until both came back as town. We do think deon is a wolf, because we blocked Sis last night. And the wolves can pick anyone to do a kill as long as the active wolves agree. So sis has been designating deon as her killer as she was likely the only active wolf remaining.
However, this leads to an issue:
If deon killed Idle, who killed Sis? It wasn't us. You'll have to take my word on it, but really, a cabal that can kill and recruit would be overpowered. And Inner, if telling the truth, claims he has the town secret power. And we know someone was blocking the read on Septimus's corpses. (BTW, apparently the cabal can block Septimus's night reads, though the rules aren't clear on that since they describe the power as automatic. Didn't matter, though. We really had no reason to block him. But we also seem to have a secret power of retaliatory kills by the wolves. There are too many secret powers running around, and no adequate explanation of who killed Sis.
What if the vampire's secret power is to detect as town? It would explain why everyone active remaining seems to be town and cabal, but someone out there is killing in addition to the likely wolf deon. Because hirka should be Vicar if Inner is legitimate. Unless hirka himself is vampire and detected as vicar. But it seems kind of ridiculous that Pleo would nerf a secret power like that. (Not only fooling it, but causing it to disappear because Inner investigated a vampire disguised as town.)
Honestly, I still think Inner is the vamp. Because while deon killing as proxy for Sister is a valid play and within both rules and spirit of conspiracy, hirkatabawa killing in absentia of the game is bad form.
Oh, and for any who think that cabal being able to recruit that many freemasons is game-breaking, understand that if I had died, cabal loses any ability to further recruit. Also, the masons aren't required to join cabal. Also, masons are prime wolf targets as I've said all along. And even with my recruiting every mason except the one who died Night 1, cabal still isn't in a position to win this.
Of course, neither is town.
Now, we have a little conundrum. Whoever the killing party is, cannot kill cabal and town in uneven numbers, or they will be outed and destroyed. Town doesn't want to lynch non-cabal/non-town, because as soon as all the killing roles are dead, cabal wins. Cabal and whatever other non-town remaining don't want purely cabal to be out of the game, because town will control the lynch and win.
We have essentially a Mexican standoff.
So what do we do? Well the cabal are willing to propose a stalemate. You will not be able to lynch one of us. In fact, you can't lynch anyone without our help. We're pretty sure deon is a wolf, and we know there are two kills out there. If we remove a killer, cabal can nerf the remaining killer if he's outed. Essentially no can die, and this little merry conspiracy game ends in a stalemate for the town, cabal, and whatever the last killing faction is. The only way any faction can win is for one of the other factions to essentially hand the game to them.
So I propose town and cabal agree to the stalemate, and the killing roles agree as well in secret PM to Pleo.
As a backup, we should take out deon. This should remove a complete faction from the game. We're pretty sure he's wolf, especially with Sis being a little too concerned with him during the game to a level that implies more than just idle curiosity about his missing. (Guiri noticed this.)
Even with deon gone, there should be one killer left. This means town shouldn't lose.
Otherwise, town, you are essentially leaving this to the whim of the killing roles, who will decimate us both one by one until they win.
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 1, 2012 18:59:56 GMT -5
I have no idea what Hoopy is talking about. I'm really a Warlock.
(Hey, the whole "claim Mason" think is just passe..."claim Warlock" is obbiously where it's at these days...)
|
|
|
Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 1, 2012 19:04:14 GMT -5
I'm heading home now, so just in case anyone thought I was serious there (though I can't imagine any of you actually being that naive)... ...I was joking. I'll likely not be online for about 4 or 5 hours; hopefully we'll have all come to a mutually beneficial agreement by then. In the meantime, I hereby grant Hoopy Frood full authority to negotiate on my behalf.
|
|
|
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Mar 1, 2012 19:05:33 GMT -5
Oh and
Vote: deon
Silly non-playing yet still killing wolves.
|
|
|
Post by peekercpa on Mar 1, 2012 19:10:05 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by septimus on Mar 1, 2012 19:11:51 GMT -5
I for one would greatly prefer to let Deon get his tainted Vampire win, then to fall for this malarkey and give Cabal the win.
Even for those who do want to fall for the malarkey: Why not wait another cycle and see how many Kills there are toNight? I'd be surprised if it's more than one.
|
|
|
Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 1, 2012 19:19:16 GMT -5
I think Septimus is smart.
|
|
|
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Mar 1, 2012 19:23:13 GMT -5
Why not wait another cycle and see how many Kills there are toNight? I'd be surprised if it's more than one. Really. And why is that? Who do you think did the second kill? Obviously the wolves wouldn't have killed themselves. So someone had to kill them. And we blocked Sis, so it wasn't her doing any killing. Or are you saying that cabal can kill. Interesting, than how could I have recruited? Each faction gets one secret power. So what is it you know that the rest of us don't? Maybe Ed's crazy theory about you being recruited after coming back to life is right.
|
|
|
Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 1, 2012 19:39:12 GMT -5
You blocked Sister Last Night?
|
|
|
Post by septimus on Mar 1, 2012 19:52:18 GMT -5
Who do you think did the second kill? Obviously the wolves wouldn't have killed themselves. So someone had to kill them. And we blocked Sis, so it wasn't her doing any killing. We have ten players: five confirmed Townies, four Cabalists according to you, and deon. Occam's Razor suggests to me that you're lying about blocking SisC. On the other hand, since texcat got at least one extra Kill; it might be possible that Wolves got more than one extra Kill, though that would presumably end with the Death of the final Wolf. I know I'm not lying. A few hours ago I identified the roles of last Night's victims. In your fictitious world, would a recruited septimus still have Coroner power?
|
|